Interdependency/ Co-Dependency How to end a relationship
SerenityRUS said
May 12, 2017
I am working really hard to stay out of the co-dependent stuff relationship wise.
If I had a choice in relationships what I want is an interdependent relationship something where we share a common goal rooted together however thrive independently of one another. Without the insecure issues of self esteem and the other mixed bag of things that go all together.
It has seemed that I have had this parallel life of being surrounded by independent women as well as being raised by a very co-dependent woman. So the dichotomy/irony of that kind of oxymoron for lack of a better term is not lost on me.
I spent the evening with a lovely girlfriend of mine who went through a recent breakup .. it's that breakup you see happening however it's better to just not say to much about it because the end result is going to be the same ... I value the relationship more than being right. I do not understand men (insert gender/people, I'm referring to men as a heterosexual woman) who use the "I don't love you anymore" line it goes with the passive aggressiveness of "it's not you it's me". I do not understand the lack of responsibility in ending a relationship .. be in or out .. this other stuff is perplexing to me. I can respect "this isn't working out, I need to move on."
This brought about the conversation of is it easier to be the dumper or the dumpee .. I don't think being the dumper is easy because again .. that has the responsibility of not being cruel and causing someone else's pain. While I may not be responsible for their reactions .. as the dumper I am saying something that is not going to feel good and that goes with guilt. The dumpee usually doesn't see it coming and are blindsided.
The cruelty of I just don't love you anymore is like WTF does that mean exactly? My XAH in his insanity laid on me "I never loved you." I spent 18 years with this person, had two children, didn't cheat, I struggled with depression and other things during the heights of craziness .. lived 2100 miles from the nearest family. While I can be difficult on a good day .. lol .. I don't think I deserved that as an ending to the relationship. You know it's no wonder he wasn't buried in the back yard .. I think the audacity that followed was he thought he was going to stay at the house after laying that down. I don't know in that moment I was reminded of the steel back bone I have and promptly reminded him he could get his stuff and GO. I mean seriously why would I subject myself to his presence 24/7. LOL? He was actually surprised and that was kind of what took place in my friends situation. The shock of what do you mean I can't stay here anymore. LOL .. umm .. hmm .. let me count the ways. I can sing it if that makes it easier .. LOL.
Feelings DO change .. and I can look back and say .. you know what .. I did not love this man and I understand why he felt the way he did .. I think we both loved each other to the best of our abilities at the time. Which let's face it my definition of love was the size of an atom. I'm sure his was smaller .. LOL. I am more open to emotional risks as well as being emotionally available to others in general.
I do believe there are other ways to end a relationship that do not involve being a coward or cruel. In the given moment I know it's hard to find the "right" way as there is no easy button in ending a relationship which is now why there are terms such as "benching", "Ghosting", and so on .. I am just truly disappointed that some people are not more aware or lack the decorum to not be cruel.
It just puzzled me today and it bothers me in terms of my XAH sees nothing wrong with what he said to me and while what he said was cruel it was true on a lot of levels for both of us .. maybe he had the courage on that part to actually say it. His timing could have been better .. LOL.
Anyway .. I guess I'm just laminating at the moment praying for my friend, hoping she doesn't wrap her value in just because the relationship ended at this point that there is something wrong with her or that somehow she could have done something because that's just not the case .. I don't think either of them were vested at this point .. good grief .. why do things to just be mean.
Don't get it .. never will .. I would rather be hit with truth not the cruelty.
shrnp said
May 12, 2017
After having a couple bad relationships I would rather everything be explained before hand so there are no surprises. That would probably include rules for breaking up too.
SerenityRUS said
May 12, 2017
LOL .. sooo with you Sharon .. we were talking marriage at work today .. slow day ... LOL .. and something I brought up is I do not see myself ever getting married again .. my experience with divorce has been to emotionally expensive and I just do not want to do it again .. IF I were to get married there would be a prenup .. post nup and a nup in between just because .. the biggest rule is .. tell me you don't love me ... period ... he better have a plan because the guy is no longer in MY house. I want it all spelled out no fights no worries or whatever .. these are the boundaries and so on. Let's not get into the issue of my picker!
I think I'm way to alpha .. lived to long as a single mother .. my standards are not impossibly high .. however I have standards .. LOL. I run in a pack with other alpha women and I think when we are together we have to much fun together .. these women are my sisters by choice. I was actually asked by a guy if my friend and I were lesbians because we looked "to comfortable together" .. now when was that an invite to ask something like that .. why not ask my age, weight or if I was pregnant .. LOL? It was just rude . I looked at him and said .. so let me get this straight .. pardon the pun .. lol .. I see you and your guy friends hanging out at some kind of social event and because you look like you are "comfortable" I have the right to ask you if you are gay? Hmmm .. how's that working for you? Because I would like to know if your mother raised you like that. OMGOSH .. the poor man .. LOL .. I think that's where I feel different that my man would be the head of house .. he better be able to stand toe to toe with me .. thankfully my bf is a very gentle firm kindred spirit .. so if we were to take things further I at least feel like I wouldn't scare the crap out of him. Well .. I don't think so .. LOL. I think the older I get and the more comfortable I get with me, the less I put up with a whole lot of BS. Seriously if I caught my son doing that and I don't care what age he was .. I would honestly wash his mouth out with soap on the spot and tell him to apologize immediately! That whole scene was just RUDE and this was after having a conversation with us for a few min.
It's the lack of tact and decorum that I can't get past .. I guess in some ways I'm a very old fashion woman and in others not so much .. hmm .. I don't know .. last night seriously bothered me and I wish I understood why better ... maybe it was just my past crashing into my present. Reminded me of how much disrespect I put up with coming from my X.
Bo said
May 12, 2017
Personally I don't think it is that difficult or complex. I think it has to do with, initially, pure, raw, hard-core, acceptance. Once you truly have that -- not just understand it intellectually -- but have it, as a state of mind, being, and can embrace it; then and only then does "the other person" be someone who you can look at without the jaded glasses. We can then look at them without the why, I don't understand, how could they think, do, behave, and so on and so on.
As it relates to the ending of a relationship -- I think that too is over-complicated. Emotions, a quest for understanding, and innumerable other things, supersede logic and intellect, as well as the task at hand. I taught a course on relationships and communications once -- and the curriculum was based upon, just one thing being, that the focus is being part of the solution and not part of the problem. That said, I went through some work with my "coach" and "therapist" regarding ending a long-term relationship. While I was completely comfortable with my decision -- the "personal stuff" still came through. There was a part of me that wanted to be heard, wanted to go on record, wanted to verbalize my feelings, and to some extent justify them, and there was a hint of wanting to be right as for far too long I wasn't and was made out to be wrong. There was the element of closure as well. There were numerous other things. Now, if none of that applies to you, I will say there is "stuff" that does. I ultimately chose to end the relationship with a simple "I am not happy, and while I don't want to instigate, put words in your mouth, and I mean no disrespect as I am not speaking for you, however, I can't help but feel you are not happy either..." and I simply, clearly and concisely ended the relationship. It's not an exit-interview, or a re-consideration. Closure can often be a mystical, enigmatic myth, LOL, and my focus was to keep it in the "I" in a non-self-centered way, a non-egotistical way, and to not blame, point fingers or even reference "you did" this, that or the other thing.
Anyone who is "cruel" in ending a relationship -- well, no offense, but that says all that needs to be said about that person, and not the person they are breaking up with.
andromeda said
May 12, 2017
I like what Bo shared above. I try to use logic and intellect most of the time when facing life decisions, such as breaking up or ending a relationship, but my emotions do tend to supersede my brain at times. So, when someone pulls the 'it's not you, it's me' thing, I know they are coming from a place of fear (possibly). Fear of the fallout, avoiding being held responsible for their own feelings, or maybe even being forced to recognize exactly which feelings they are dealing with to begin with.
I know that if I said, "I don't love you anymore", I'd most likely be covering up something much deeper, I'd be coming from a place of cowardice, I'd be projecting my shame and fear onto the other person and convincing myself that it's them, not me. That somehow I found something about them unlovable all of a sudden. And, that I didn't even talk about it or have the courage to face them before I pulled that line out? I would never do this, but I can see the scenario in my own mind. I mean, truly, who wakes up one morning and just decides, "I don't love this person anymore."? There's always precipitating factors but if you live in detail and don't truly KNOW yourself, then you're probably just plain old scared of being the dumpee and think it's better to be the dumper and get it all over with.
Humans are complicated beings. Relationships are things that can be complicated for us. I know that if I were your friend and I was blindsided by that, I'd be terribly confused and hurt especially if there was no proverbial 'writing on the wall'. I can't defend this man's actions, but I can understand the complexities of fear, shame, guilt, confusion, etc that come from not knowing yourself and not knowing what you want in life. His words to her were tactless and seemingly presented in a disrespectful way so i'm not excusing him. But, I can relate to his humanness, if that makes sense?
a4l said
May 12, 2017
Ahhh, love. I think what we don't get drummed in is that every feeling has a practical application. So when someone says I don't love you anymore my first thought goes to, egghead, do you think it was your version of romanticism which you have confused with love that motivated me to do practically ABC and z? I wasn't feeling romantic love when I cleaned the toilet, changed the kids, etc etc. I loved. So if you weren't here for love but just my labour, get out and compensate me for it, thanks,lol. Off topic but, yeah that idea of dumb surprise at you mean I have to leave? Its good to find ones backbone again. I'm all for it.
I am working really hard to stay out of the co-dependent stuff relationship wise.
If I had a choice in relationships what I want is an interdependent relationship something where we share a common goal rooted together however thrive independently of one another. Without the insecure issues of self esteem and the other mixed bag of things that go all together.
It has seemed that I have had this parallel life of being surrounded by independent women as well as being raised by a very co-dependent woman. So the dichotomy/irony of that kind of oxymoron for lack of a better term is not lost on me.
I spent the evening with a lovely girlfriend of mine who went through a recent breakup .. it's that breakup you see happening however it's better to just not say to much about it because the end result is going to be the same ... I value the relationship more than being right. I do not understand men (insert gender/people, I'm referring to men as a heterosexual woman) who use the "I don't love you anymore" line it goes with the passive aggressiveness of "it's not you it's me". I do not understand the lack of responsibility in ending a relationship .. be in or out .. this other stuff is perplexing to me. I can respect "this isn't working out, I need to move on."
This brought about the conversation of is it easier to be the dumper or the dumpee .. I don't think being the dumper is easy because again .. that has the responsibility of not being cruel and causing someone else's pain. While I may not be responsible for their reactions .. as the dumper I am saying something that is not going to feel good and that goes with guilt. The dumpee usually doesn't see it coming and are blindsided.
The cruelty of I just don't love you anymore is like WTF does that mean exactly? My XAH in his insanity laid on me "I never loved you." I spent 18 years with this person, had two children, didn't cheat, I struggled with depression and other things during the heights of craziness .. lived 2100 miles from the nearest family. While I can be difficult on a good day .. lol .. I don't think I deserved that as an ending to the relationship. You know it's no wonder he wasn't buried in the back yard .. I think the audacity that followed was he thought he was going to stay at the house after laying that down. I don't know in that moment I was reminded of the steel back bone I have and promptly reminded him he could get his stuff and GO. I mean seriously why would I subject myself to his presence 24/7. LOL? He was actually surprised and that was kind of what took place in my friends situation. The shock of what do you mean I can't stay here anymore. LOL .. umm .. hmm .. let me count the ways. I can sing it if that makes it easier .. LOL.
Feelings DO change .. and I can look back and say .. you know what .. I did not love this man and I understand why he felt the way he did .. I think we both loved each other to the best of our abilities at the time. Which let's face it my definition of love was the size of an atom. I'm sure his was smaller .. LOL. I am more open to emotional risks as well as being emotionally available to others in general.
I do believe there are other ways to end a relationship that do not involve being a coward or cruel. In the given moment I know it's hard to find the "right" way as there is no easy button in ending a relationship which is now why there are terms such as "benching", "Ghosting", and so on .. I am just truly disappointed that some people are not more aware or lack the decorum to not be cruel.
It just puzzled me today and it bothers me in terms of my XAH sees nothing wrong with what he said to me and while what he said was cruel it was true on a lot of levels for both of us .. maybe he had the courage on that part to actually say it. His timing could have been better .. LOL.
Anyway .. I guess I'm just laminating at the moment praying for my friend, hoping she doesn't wrap her value in just because the relationship ended at this point that there is something wrong with her or that somehow she could have done something because that's just not the case .. I don't think either of them were vested at this point .. good grief .. why do things to just be mean.
Don't get it .. never will .. I would rather be hit with truth not the cruelty.
I think I'm way to alpha .. lived to long as a single mother .. my standards are not impossibly high .. however I have standards .. LOL. I run in a pack with other alpha women and I think when we are together we have to much fun together .. these women are my sisters by choice. I was actually asked by a guy if my friend and I were lesbians because we looked "to comfortable together" .. now when was that an invite to ask something like that .. why not ask my age, weight or if I was pregnant .. LOL? It was just rude . I looked at him and said .. so let me get this straight .. pardon the pun .. lol .. I see you and your guy friends hanging out at some kind of social event and because you look like you are "comfortable" I have the right to ask you if you are gay? Hmmm .. how's that working for you? Because I would like to know if your mother raised you like that. OMGOSH .. the poor man .. LOL .. I think that's where I feel different that my man would be the head of house .. he better be able to stand toe to toe with me .. thankfully my bf is a very gentle firm kindred spirit .. so if we were to take things further I at least feel like I wouldn't scare the crap out of him. Well .. I don't think so .. LOL. I think the older I get and the more comfortable I get with me, the less I put up with a whole lot of BS. Seriously if I caught my son doing that and I don't care what age he was .. I would honestly wash his mouth out with soap on the spot and tell him to apologize immediately! That whole scene was just RUDE and this was after having a conversation with us for a few min.
It's the lack of tact and decorum that I can't get past .. I guess in some ways I'm a very old fashion woman and in others not so much .. hmm .. I don't know .. last night seriously bothered me and I wish I understood why better ... maybe it was just my past crashing into my present. Reminded me of how much disrespect I put up with coming from my X.
Personally I don't think it is that difficult or complex. I think it has to do with, initially, pure, raw, hard-core, acceptance. Once you truly have that -- not just understand it intellectually -- but have it, as a state of mind, being, and can embrace it; then and only then does "the other person" be someone who you can look at without the jaded glasses. We can then look at them without the why, I don't understand, how could they think, do, behave, and so on and so on.
As it relates to the ending of a relationship -- I think that too is over-complicated. Emotions, a quest for understanding, and innumerable other things, supersede logic and intellect, as well as the task at hand. I taught a course on relationships and communications once -- and the curriculum was based upon, just one thing being, that the focus is being part of the solution and not part of the problem. That said, I went through some work with my "coach" and "therapist" regarding ending a long-term relationship. While I was completely comfortable with my decision -- the "personal stuff" still came through. There was a part of me that wanted to be heard, wanted to go on record, wanted to verbalize my feelings, and to some extent justify them, and there was a hint of wanting to be right as for far too long I wasn't and was made out to be wrong. There was the element of closure as well. There were numerous other things. Now, if none of that applies to you, I will say there is "stuff" that does. I ultimately chose to end the relationship with a simple "I am not happy, and while I don't want to instigate, put words in your mouth, and I mean no disrespect as I am not speaking for you, however, I can't help but feel you are not happy either..." and I simply, clearly and concisely ended the relationship. It's not an exit-interview, or a re-consideration. Closure can often be a mystical, enigmatic myth, LOL, and my focus was to keep it in the "I" in a non-self-centered way, a non-egotistical way, and to not blame, point fingers or even reference "you did" this, that or the other thing.
Anyone who is "cruel" in ending a relationship -- well, no offense, but that says all that needs to be said about that person, and not the person they are breaking up with.
I know that if I said, "I don't love you anymore", I'd most likely be covering up something much deeper, I'd be coming from a place of cowardice, I'd be projecting my shame and fear onto the other person and convincing myself that it's them, not me. That somehow I found something about them unlovable all of a sudden. And, that I didn't even talk about it or have the courage to face them before I pulled that line out? I would never do this, but I can see the scenario in my own mind. I mean, truly, who wakes up one morning and just decides, "I don't love this person anymore."? There's always precipitating factors but if you live in detail and don't truly KNOW yourself, then you're probably just plain old scared of being the dumpee and think it's better to be the dumper and get it all over with.
Humans are complicated beings. Relationships are things that can be complicated for us. I know that if I were your friend and I was blindsided by that, I'd be terribly confused and hurt especially if there was no proverbial 'writing on the wall'. I can't defend this man's actions, but I can understand the complexities of fear, shame, guilt, confusion, etc that come from not knowing yourself and not knowing what you want in life. His words to her were tactless and seemingly presented in a disrespectful way so i'm not excusing him. But, I can relate to his humanness, if that makes sense?