My fiancé who has been in AA , 11 years sober, has completely stopped approaching me for sex or wanting to have sex. It has been over 2 weeks which may not seem like very long but its the longest we have gone.
When I bring it up he says he just doesn't want to. I ask him why and he says he has built a wall up and he doesn't know if he can ever break that wall down. He tells me he can't trust me.
During our couples counseling session he told me that he is scared of me and my anger. I do get bottled up angry and I have broken things and yelled, etc.
Things have just been all around rocky and I feel like just walking away from this relationship. I wish him the best but I did not know what I was getting into when I fell in love with him. His life is 100 percent devoted to AA and that involves 5-6 meetings a week plus his 3 sponsees he works with. '
Its hard to give up but I feel like I need more from a partner. He is so focused on his needs that I don't feel like trying anymore. I understand sobriety comes first, he makes that very clear. I have even started attending regular Al-anon meetings to cope and try and change myself for the better.
Being with him is painful and I feel like running away.
SerenityRUS said
May 9, 2017
You have previously posted that you feel resentful that he attends his AA meetings and that it feels like you take a backseat.
I guess I question what are you doing for you in terms of why not let him do his recovery and if he feels that this is what he needs to do to stay sober then that's not a bad thing. There are many people who wished they had that problem of their loved ones attending meetings and living a sober life.
So what are you doing for your own recovery because you have previously mentioned that your family has been affected by alcoholism. I do encourage you to go to some meetings and find your own recovery.
He is TELLING you how he feels .. the question is are you listening and addressing your issues because these are your issues not his. If someone was exploding at me I don't think I would be in the mood for sex or an intimate connections. So maybe this is a good opportunity for you to address some of these things and reevaluate how you feel in a few months and if this is going to work for you.
I remember my XAH even though he wasn't sober I negated things he would say to me as unimportant .. you know being in a mutually respectful relationship part of that whole package is listening .. had I listened to him .. we probably would have still split up .. I would have heard how much pain he was really in.
Your man is telling you some key things .. and not saying this is "all your fault" .. I do believe people each have a part in relationships .. and he's speaking I encourage you to listen.
GOOD on him for seeking out his meetings and putting his sobriety first .. addiction is life long and he will always need this connection .. he sees this .. sounds to me like you need to deal with your own past issues which again I didn't get here over night .. it's going to take time. Meetings are part of the package deal and yes they take up time.
Hugs S :)
Keep coming back and I hope you find your own peace as well as understanding of what addiction is like .. you are very lucky that he's very devoted to his recovery.
shrnp said
May 9, 2017
If you are seeing an alcoholic in recovery and you do not accept the meetings and the importance of self preservation than maybe it is not the relationship for you. Personally speaking from being in recovery myself that sobriety it the most important thing. In Alanon we focus on ourselves. I think that is great you are going to some kind of counseling. You cannot change someone else, and you should not take the meetings personally. Without the meetings your fiance's might not be the person that you wanted to be with.
hotrod said
May 9, 2017
Hi Wilady If the relationship is, as you state, I ask the question why do you want to have sex with him? Having a loving, supportive, empathetic relationship is truly a wonderful experience, that both people need to work at to accomplish . If he has built a wall of resentment because of your actions and attitudes then talking things over and reasoning things out would be very helpful. No guarantees.\
I'm glad that you are attending Al-Anon meetings,aAnd developing new tools to live by. Keep coming back you're not alone l
a4l said
May 9, 2017
It's hard to stay and hard not to hold on. I get that. Wanting intimacy from people who can't or won't give it. A funny or perhaps counter intuitive thing happens for some of us in relationships with alcoholics. We try ever harder to get bread from the hardware store. It's a recipe for anger in my experience, and a whole heap of hurt under that. I found that trying to understand, control, and get love as I understood it from my ah, I lost almost all of my self esteem, and because he was always the focus I kinda thought he would naturally be the cure. There's some stuff online, women who love too much, the author gave an interview regarding her book. I found it helpful supplementary material to alanon, because after leaving, I was wondering why I'm always attracted to varying degrees of unavailable men. Alanon and the 12 steps are the only methods I know of that have worked to put the focus on me. Not in a self blaming way either. I was pretty good at that already. Wet, dry or recovering especially the early stages, alcoholism is indeed a difficult aspect of partnership. It is suggested no major decisions are made for the first six months of programme and I do hope you give it a go. Not for him-- bet it sometimes feels like the entire world revolves there already!-- but most certainly for you, who has been affected by a loved ones alcoholism. Take good care.
Sorcha said
May 9, 2017
Hi Wilady, sorry to hear your relationship is difficult at the moment. It is suggested at alanon to attend meetings for six months before making a decision about our relationships. I don't know if you have been going for that long. I find listening to alanon speakers on YouTube really inspiring too. I am in recovery from my own addiction as well as being in alanon. Recovery has to be a priority, but taking our recovery home is important too, spending quality time with family, showing consideration, etc. But you cant change him and only you can decide if you can live with him as he is. Its frustrating, i know. It helps if both partners are working their own programmes. We all slip and slide in recovery too though, in our thinking and reactions and all of that, even if we never pick up a drink or drug. Have you read the aa big book's chapter 'to wives'? The alanon book, 'the dilemma of the alcoholic marriage' has some stuff about sex and the alcoholic.
Mattie said
May 9, 2017
It is reasonable of him to put so much time into AA, but it is also reasonable that you might need a man who is more available and open. It is not unreasonable if you decide to separate and look for a man who is not encumbered with those other obligations. Not to say that either of you is "wrong," just that it might not be a good match. That's perfectly understandable.
WestMan said
May 9, 2017
It's only been a couple weeks. I recommend chilling out for a little bit and not making a big deal out of it. Let him know you're interested and then do something else. Guys are often so accustomed to being "ready to go" that finding yourself in a situation like this can really throw us for a loop. He may already have been freaking out and upset about it prior to you bringing it up. Also, often times a guy who has loss of libido or performance issues doesn't understand why and may feel like "well someone's to blame for this". So they beat themselves up or will give their partner a difficult time about it.
That's not to say you shouldn't address it at all but a more nuanced approach may be more productive. I suspect that there's some answer in the Al-Anon steps.
Aerin said
May 9, 2017
Same happen here. He isn't that interested anymore. Did say being in recovery takes up a lot in his mind. Looking back I realized he only wanted sex when drunk. Before he went into AA my boundary became NO sex if he was drinking.
But now its maybe 1x week or every 2 weeks.
Bo said
May 11, 2017
I have a slightly different perspective on this. When an alcoholic first finds sobriety, gets sober, etc. -- sobriety, staying sober, every single day, is not only the most important thing in their world, it is the only thing in their world. This can be debated, however it is just my experience and opinion. I've seen people have to spend every single minute of every single day, just focusing on what they need to do and keep doing to stay clean and sober. I don't think one can say for the first week, 30 days, 6 months, etc.
I also don't think there is a magic date, or a rigid step by step protocol, however, I also feel at a certain point -- and every person, every relationship, etc., is different -- after exclusively focusing on himself/herself and sobriety, at some point, there has to be a "next step" so to speak. Whether it's the couple, the marriage, life with someone, something, whatever it is -- there comes a time that the person has to start living again, as a couple. AA still is a focal point, staying sober still is the focal point -- but for the well-being, the sake of the relationship, the "us" aspect -- that has to return and be a part of life again. If AA becomes the only thing in life -- and the alcoholic feels that's the way they have to live and want to live -- then they may not be emotionally, spiritually, and mentally available for another person. They may not be available or capable of being there for another person, of being in a relationship, contributing, being a partner in, and so on. It has happened.
While every single case, person, etc., is different -- the post here says 11 years. This is not a newly sober person. He might be struggling and I get that. But I've heard and seen people become fanatical about AA, their recovery, etc. To each their own? OK. To each what they need and want? OK. This person is sending some very clear messages -- one being "trust" and that says something very clear. Personally I feel this is not about trusting another person -- you can believe another person and believe in them...but when someone says "I don't trust you" -- I think that is more about "I don't trust ME" -- but perhaps that's a discussion for another time/another thread. If my partner doesn't trust me, for whatever reason or reasons -- that has to be addressed. That is part of the foundation of any relationship, and will hinder and impede a healthy, progressive, open and honest relationship.
Regardless, for me, if the other person can't be present, can't be available, and be a true partner -- then I have some decisions to make. Is this the way I want to live MYlife.
Aerin said
May 11, 2017
Bo: very good points. and also Mattie. Their steps to sobriety is important and applaud them for doing it. But I am really starting to agree that since they are emotionally involved in being sober and we are emotionally trying to have a "heathy relationship" as partners... it may not be a good fit. Its sad really. But you can't talk about what healthy couples talk about when your A is fighting daily urges and preoccupied most of time. :(
SerenityRUS said
May 11, 2017
Hugs Aerin,
You understand that drinking is the tip of the iceberg when it comes to alcoholism. Many of the RA's I have spoken with have had some kind of mental illness (for lack of a better term, anxiety, bi-polar and so on these are their diagnosis's not mine) and this has been a coping skill to deal with unpleasant feelings.
So getting physically sober is only one part of the journey .. the other part is getting emotionally sober and based upon how much and how long the drinking has been done and what kind of brain damage has been done during that time it can take 2 years for a brain to be out of the alcohol fuzz (I only know my experience based upon what I have read and listened to with RA's and A's). That's when the real work comes in in terms of finding new ways to communicate.
It's the same for me .. I didn't get here over night and there is NO way I'm going to heal over night .. I am going to struggle to get my own version of emotional sobriety because I will be the first to admit I get an emotional high off of the dysfunction and I so have to watch that about myself. It all takes time.
Mattie brought up a point of sometimes relationships are not a good fit and yet sometimes they are .. are you going to get a healthy relationship tomorrow with someone who is struggling to just get physically sober? Probably not. Are they are preoccupied with their recovery? God I hope so. That's the moment to decide are you willing to wait to see where this ride takes you or are you out. You don't get it all ways out of the gate of recovery. It's a long term end game.
I just had a similar conversation with my BF today and I need more than I am getting from him. I would be horribly disappointed and hurt if it doesn't workout however I will be ok and I will know that whatever the outcome I didn't just stay in it to avoid being lonely. I was married to the convenience and it was horrible. So it's important to me to have emotional integrity for me.
Hugs S :)
Iamhere said
May 11, 2017
I've avoided this thread because Al-Anon suggests that we keep the focus on us, and that we are powerless over other people, places and things. For me, input any verb in there (Sex, Dancing, Holidays, Dinner, Dates, etc.) - as the disease progresses in those directly affected, they loose interest in other things.
If one is blessed with the gift of recovery, they are asked to put their sobriety first in AA. If we are blessed with the gift of recovery, we are asked to put ourselves first in recovery. So - if a spouse is active and no longer meets our needs, we are gifted with choices for our well-being through recovery. Before recovery, I kept trying to change others and have them see things 'my way' - which I thought was the right/best/only way.
He is clearly stating what his needs are in his recovery journey. I don't see mixed messages and while it may seem to be different than expected or desired, it is what it is. What we learn in Al-Anon is to take care of ourselves and do what we need to do for our own well-being. In 26 years of marriage, passion and sex have ebbed and flowed. We both have gone through phases were one wants it and one doesn't. It doesn't make either of us right/wrong, it just is what it is.
To spend time suggesting what might make him/her less interested in sex is counter-productive to our own recovery. I know when my AH was active, I had no interest in intimacy - the smell alone was a turn-off...I am sure I hurt him as I also used this as a manipulation tool to 'help him see the light'...of course we could not discuss it as there was an elephant in the room - alcohol.
When people tell us and show us what they need, we are informed. With Al-Anon, we've been given a program that guides us through making choices and decisions for ourselves. When I got sober, I swore off dating, men and sex. I was in a relationship and ended it. He was destroyed and clearly did not understand as he was not in recovery. He had even set aside mind altering substances because he wanted to support me in love. It was hard, sad and confusing but I needed to get to know me in all ways without substances and crutches (boyfriend) and sex, boyfriends and dating are huge distractions in early sobriety.
Take care of you - if you need more, so be it. It sounds to me as if it has nothing to do with you - he's wanting to free himself to better himself. How can that be wrong? Letting go of others is hard to do, but often frees us up in ways unknown to be given a better life and future.
Take what you like and leave the rest.
Wilady8 said
May 11, 2017
Thank you for your post.
Bo said
May 12, 2017
The other thing I wanted to say is that there is a difference between being a relationship where there is no intimacy, connection, feeling disconnected, not being a true partner, having one being exclusively focused on AA, program, etc., and simply not wanting to have sex. One might be part of the other and the two may become part of the same issue, but I view the two as distinct. From what I read from the OP, first, he doesn't want to have sex (I do not mean to trivialize of simplify this), and the second, and perhaps the why or part of the way, is due to trust. Go to the heart of the matter...trust. Why not make this the focal point of couples counselling? Allow a professional to facilitate an open and honest discussion so that both of you can get it out on the table.
At a certain point, the marriage, the "couple" needs to be addressed. There needs to be the "I" and the individual first -- sobriety, recovery -- and that's not only first, but only if need be. For both people. However, at a certain point, the two "I's" and the two individuals need to gravitate back to each other and the couple, the relationship needs to also have it's own recovery. If that doesn't happen -- there is no relationship, no couple, no partnership, and so on. I had a very long period of time where I was in a marriage and there was no real marriage. My AW was withdrawn, completely not present, not able to have meaningful, open, connected conversations, quality time, doing things together, as a couple, and so on. Nothing. We would eat together, as a matter of convenience, default, and because we were both hungry around dinner time, LOL. But it was simply an activity of daily living that we did in the same room. Is that a marriage? Perhaps some might say they could "accept" that and find peace and happiness in that -- and that would be OK for them. Me? It was not an option. It's not that I refused to consider that -- it is that I could not even consider that.
That being said, intimacy, to many is more than sex. To many, it's a lot more. For me it certainly is a lot more. Sure, sex is part of it. However, remove whatever "intimacy" is -- and look at whether or not that is the way you want to live your life. "Just For Today" every single day, for the rest of your life...is the rest of your life.
My fiancé who has been in AA , 11 years sober, has completely stopped approaching me for sex or wanting to have sex. It has been over 2 weeks which may not seem like very long but its the longest we have gone.
When I bring it up he says he just doesn't want to. I ask him why and he says he has built a wall up and he doesn't know if he can ever break that wall down. He tells me he can't trust me.
During our couples counseling session he told me that he is scared of me and my anger. I do get bottled up angry and I have broken things and yelled, etc.
Things have just been all around rocky and I feel like just walking away from this relationship. I wish him the best but I did not know what I was getting into when I fell in love with him. His life is 100 percent devoted to AA and that involves 5-6 meetings a week plus his 3 sponsees he works with. '
Its hard to give up but I feel like I need more from a partner. He is so focused on his needs that I don't feel like trying anymore. I understand sobriety comes first, he makes that very clear. I have even started attending regular Al-anon meetings to cope and try and change myself for the better.
Being with him is painful and I feel like running away.
I guess I question what are you doing for you in terms of why not let him do his recovery and if he feels that this is what he needs to do to stay sober then that's not a bad thing. There are many people who wished they had that problem of their loved ones attending meetings and living a sober life.
So what are you doing for your own recovery because you have previously mentioned that your family has been affected by alcoholism. I do encourage you to go to some meetings and find your own recovery.
He is TELLING you how he feels .. the question is are you listening and addressing your issues because these are your issues not his. If someone was exploding at me I don't think I would be in the mood for sex or an intimate connections. So maybe this is a good opportunity for you to address some of these things and reevaluate how you feel in a few months and if this is going to work for you.
I remember my XAH even though he wasn't sober I negated things he would say to me as unimportant .. you know being in a mutually respectful relationship part of that whole package is listening .. had I listened to him .. we probably would have still split up .. I would have heard how much pain he was really in.
Your man is telling you some key things .. and not saying this is "all your fault" .. I do believe people each have a part in relationships .. and he's speaking I encourage you to listen.
GOOD on him for seeking out his meetings and putting his sobriety first .. addiction is life long and he will always need this connection .. he sees this .. sounds to me like you need to deal with your own past issues which again I didn't get here over night .. it's going to take time. Meetings are part of the package deal and yes they take up time.
Hugs S :)
Keep coming back and I hope you find your own peace as well as understanding of what addiction is like .. you are very lucky that he's very devoted to his recovery.
Hi Wilady If the relationship is, as you state, I ask the question why do you want to have sex with him? Having a loving, supportive, empathetic relationship is truly a wonderful experience, that both people need to work at to accomplish . If he has built a wall of resentment because of your actions and attitudes then talking things over and reasoning things out would be very helpful. No guarantees.\
I'm glad that you are attending Al-Anon meetings,aAnd developing new tools to live by. Keep coming back you're not alone l
It is reasonable of him to put so much time into AA, but it is also reasonable that you might need a man who is more available and open. It is not unreasonable if you decide to separate and look for a man who is not encumbered with those other obligations. Not to say that either of you is "wrong," just that it might not be a good match. That's perfectly understandable.
I have a slightly different perspective on this. When an alcoholic first finds sobriety, gets sober, etc. -- sobriety, staying sober, every single day, is not only the most important thing in their world, it is the only thing in their world. This can be debated, however it is just my experience and opinion. I've seen people have to spend every single minute of every single day, just focusing on what they need to do and keep doing to stay clean and sober. I don't think one can say for the first week, 30 days, 6 months, etc.
I also don't think there is a magic date, or a rigid step by step protocol, however, I also feel at a certain point -- and every person, every relationship, etc., is different -- after exclusively focusing on himself/herself and sobriety, at some point, there has to be a "next step" so to speak. Whether it's the couple, the marriage, life with someone, something, whatever it is -- there comes a time that the person has to start living again, as a couple. AA still is a focal point, staying sober still is the focal point -- but for the well-being, the sake of the relationship, the "us" aspect -- that has to return and be a part of life again. If AA becomes the only thing in life -- and the alcoholic feels that's the way they have to live and want to live -- then they may not be emotionally, spiritually, and mentally available for another person. They may not be available or capable of being there for another person, of being in a relationship, contributing, being a partner in, and so on. It has happened.
While every single case, person, etc., is different -- the post here says 11 years. This is not a newly sober person. He might be struggling and I get that. But I've heard and seen people become fanatical about AA, their recovery, etc. To each their own? OK. To each what they need and want? OK. This person is sending some very clear messages -- one being "trust" and that says something very clear. Personally I feel this is not about trusting another person -- you can believe another person and believe in them...but when someone says "I don't trust you" -- I think that is more about "I don't trust ME" -- but perhaps that's a discussion for another time/another thread. If my partner doesn't trust me, for whatever reason or reasons -- that has to be addressed. That is part of the foundation of any relationship, and will hinder and impede a healthy, progressive, open and honest relationship.
Regardless, for me, if the other person can't be present, can't be available, and be a true partner -- then I have some decisions to make. Is this the way I want to live MY life.
You understand that drinking is the tip of the iceberg when it comes to alcoholism. Many of the RA's I have spoken with have had some kind of mental illness (for lack of a better term, anxiety, bi-polar and so on these are their diagnosis's not mine) and this has been a coping skill to deal with unpleasant feelings.
So getting physically sober is only one part of the journey .. the other part is getting emotionally sober and based upon how much and how long the drinking has been done and what kind of brain damage has been done during that time it can take 2 years for a brain to be out of the alcohol fuzz (I only know my experience based upon what I have read and listened to with RA's and A's). That's when the real work comes in in terms of finding new ways to communicate.
It's the same for me .. I didn't get here over night and there is NO way I'm going to heal over night .. I am going to struggle to get my own version of emotional sobriety because I will be the first to admit I get an emotional high off of the dysfunction and I so have to watch that about myself. It all takes time.
Mattie brought up a point of sometimes relationships are not a good fit and yet sometimes they are .. are you going to get a healthy relationship tomorrow with someone who is struggling to just get physically sober? Probably not. Are they are preoccupied with their recovery? God I hope so. That's the moment to decide are you willing to wait to see where this ride takes you or are you out. You don't get it all ways out of the gate of recovery. It's a long term end game.
I just had a similar conversation with my BF today and I need more than I am getting from him. I would be horribly disappointed and hurt if it doesn't workout however I will be ok and I will know that whatever the outcome I didn't just stay in it to avoid being lonely. I was married to the convenience and it was horrible. So it's important to me to have emotional integrity for me.
Hugs S :)
If one is blessed with the gift of recovery, they are asked to put their sobriety first in AA. If we are blessed with the gift of recovery, we are asked to put ourselves first in recovery. So - if a spouse is active and no longer meets our needs, we are gifted with choices for our well-being through recovery. Before recovery, I kept trying to change others and have them see things 'my way' - which I thought was the right/best/only way.
He is clearly stating what his needs are in his recovery journey. I don't see mixed messages and while it may seem to be different than expected or desired, it is what it is. What we learn in Al-Anon is to take care of ourselves and do what we need to do for our own well-being. In 26 years of marriage, passion and sex have ebbed and flowed. We both have gone through phases were one wants it and one doesn't. It doesn't make either of us right/wrong, it just is what it is.
To spend time suggesting what might make him/her less interested in sex is counter-productive to our own recovery. I know when my AH was active, I had no interest in intimacy - the smell alone was a turn-off...I am sure I hurt him as I also used this as a manipulation tool to 'help him see the light'...of course we could not discuss it as there was an elephant in the room - alcohol.
When people tell us and show us what they need, we are informed. With Al-Anon, we've been given a program that guides us through making choices and decisions for ourselves. When I got sober, I swore off dating, men and sex. I was in a relationship and ended it. He was destroyed and clearly did not understand as he was not in recovery. He had even set aside mind altering substances because he wanted to support me in love. It was hard, sad and confusing but I needed to get to know me in all ways without substances and crutches (boyfriend) and sex, boyfriends and dating are huge distractions in early sobriety.
Take care of you - if you need more, so be it. It sounds to me as if it has nothing to do with you - he's wanting to free himself to better himself. How can that be wrong? Letting go of others is hard to do, but often frees us up in ways unknown to be given a better life and future.
Take what you like and leave the rest.
Thank you for your post.
At a certain point, the marriage, the "couple" needs to be addressed. There needs to be the "I" and the individual first -- sobriety, recovery -- and that's not only first, but only if need be. For both people. However, at a certain point, the two "I's" and the two individuals need to gravitate back to each other and the couple, the relationship needs to also have it's own recovery. If that doesn't happen -- there is no relationship, no couple, no partnership, and so on. I had a very long period of time where I was in a marriage and there was no real marriage. My AW was withdrawn, completely not present, not able to have meaningful, open, connected conversations, quality time, doing things together, as a couple, and so on. Nothing. We would eat together, as a matter of convenience, default, and because we were both hungry around dinner time, LOL. But it was simply an activity of daily living that we did in the same room. Is that a marriage? Perhaps some might say they could "accept" that and find peace and happiness in that -- and that would be OK for them. Me? It was not an option. It's not that I refused to consider that -- it is that I could not even consider that.
That being said, intimacy, to many is more than sex. To many, it's a lot more. For me it certainly is a lot more. Sure, sex is part of it. However, remove whatever "intimacy" is -- and look at whether or not that is the way you want to live your life. "Just For Today" every single day, for the rest of your life...is the rest of your life.