Due to Al-Anon, I have been able to live with my active AH. I don't want to, but I cannot support myself and my teen son by myself, so I embrace whatever I can so that I can focus on me and not my AH. I have known him to be "dry-drunk," clean, and lately, what I call secret drinking. Drinking just enough to get him through his day, but not enough for me to know for sure if he is actually drinking. The old me would just HAVE to know the truth...the new me now couldn't care less... I realize he will do what he does. I need to focus on me. So our family of three have been kind of cruising along like this.
Yesterday he texts me about wanting me to hear this song... it's "Say You Won't Let Go," by James Arthur. I was terribly busy getting ready for work so I texted back that I would, but really, just the name set me off b/c in my head and in my heart I have already begun to let go. I think he feels this and that is why he was so adamant about me hearing this song. He texted back later and asked again and said "B/c that's how I feel about you." I just told him that yes, I did listen to the song and realized I had heard it already. That's it. What I wanted to say is I believe actions speak louder than words... and perhaps I will, but I was at work and didn't want to get into all that.
Today I got home from work at 5:30 ish and the TV was blaringly loud - I could hear it from outside in my driveway! I walk in and my AH is on the couch in his pajamas with his eyes closed. Red flags! Red flags! But I try to stay upbeat and ask him how his day was... try to keep a "normal" conversation going, but I can easily tell that he has been drinking... a lot. So when I got the offer to go walking with my friend, I accept. I told my AH that I will be back soon and pick up some dinner. He nods "OK." Of course I check in with my teen (whose in his room) and everything is fine with him, so I go. I get home 45 minutes later, and my AH is our bedroom bawling his eyes out. My dog is running around the house panting like she is panicked. My son comes out of his room to help me bring in the food, and I ask why is Gidget panting so hard? He said he wasn't sure, but he had to tell me something after I close the door - our house is set up so that when my bedroom door is open, there is a straight shot to the living room. Thus, we can hear everything that goes on with my AH while he is in the bedroom. His sighing, his crying, cussing, you get the picture. After I close the door my son proceeds to tell me that "Dad was really, really drunk earlier and it was super awkward. The dog kept running around and trying to push her way into my room each time I opened the door." She also had cut her muzzle somehow and was bleeding. So I cleaned that up and went in to ask my AH what was going on. He was bawling! I took a deep breath and chose to be compassionate. I asked him if he was OK, and if he wanted to talk about it. He told me he wants to but can't. So I leave, shut the doors and eat dinner with my son. A short time later he comes stumbling out, barely able to walk. He proceeds to pour him some cereal and I get up and ask him what is he doing? He looked at me with this blurry confused look and I reminded him that he asked for a certain meal, and that meal was in the microwave. He then took his food and retreated to his room, leaving the door open so we could hear him crying. Meanwhile the dog is freaking out.
I told my son that the dog is scared and really doesn't know how to deal with dad's emotions... he said, "Join the club!" I told him I hear you, I don't even know how to deal with this tonight either, but I think he's sad because he drank till he was drunk tonight and we all know that he has "fallen off the wagon." I asked if this ever happens again,to please call and text me and I will come straight home... b/c your well-being is my top priority. I told him I was so sorry that this is happening. He of course said, "YOU don't have to be sorry, you aren't causing this." And I answered, "Yes, I know but I am kind of allowing it to happen... I could always ask him to leave." My son's response was, "Yeah, but that may not be any better." He is very aware of our financial need for his dad at this moment.
The "next drunk" was going to be the last straw. I was going to ask him to leave. But I just can't seem to pull that trigger. I am afraid b/c I can't afford the rent alone, and my son is finishing his junior year in high school... So that's AP, SAT, ACT tests, as well as trying to keep the good grades he has so that he has a greater chance at college opportunities. So I am afraid to cause him more anxiety. He is seeing a therapist, so that's a good thing, but I don't think that would be enough for him right now. Especially hearing his answer to my thought of "Well, I could always ask him to leave."
The ESH I need? What did you do when your spouse was basically an active drinker but not pass-out drunk all the time... held down a job and provided most of the income? When does living with this become enabling them to continue drinking? How do I know if my inability to kick him out is doing damage to my teenage son? I have suggested Al-ATeen, but that was a huge NO GO from my son. I am tempted to have the boundary of "No drinking till drunk at home," to prevent this kind of night from occurring again, but all I can think about is my AH driving drunk in his company truck! What if he hit someone and caused a death? I don't think I could live with that. I am sorry this was so long, but I had a lot to vent! Your Experience, Strength, and Hope with this would be greatly appreciated!
el-cee said
Apr 21, 2017
Im sorry your going through this, its awful. Alcoholism is a progressive disease and it sounds like hes getting worse so its unlikely this is going to go away until he gets into some kind of recovery program like AA. Do you attend meetings? I ask because often its difficult to stop enabling until we can see our own motives for the enabling in the first place. I mean I was a top class enabler and it linked in with my need to control, my need to be the fixer, saviour type person in my relationships all tying in with my low self esteem. I also learned about alcoholism and how deadly it actually is and that enabling was killing the drinker with 'kindness' and actually it was wrong. So I had to take all my preconceived ideas of what love and kindness and helping was and learn the true meaning and when I did I began to stop 'helping' and began loving the person for who they are right now drunk or sober but loving the rest of the family enough to have boundaries that protected myself and my children. It was working the Alanon program and working with other members that helped me get clarity here. I do believe this forum is a fantastic resource but it is not the Alanon program, its an add on really.
We can become obsessed with the drinker, feel so sorry for them and put them right in the centre of our thoughts and our life. This is what we are recovering from. We learn to get perspective and see the full picture and we stop being a human sacrifice to anyone. I really hope you and your son get relief from this, it sounds awful. Your husbands behaviour is unacceptable. His wailing and self pity is attention seeking and manipulative to the max. I believe your actions are really healthy, your not buying into this and your focusing on your son and yourself so good for you.
Jerry F said
Apr 21, 2017
I also had a Al-Anon sister where I attended program who had a dog that was so drunk conscious it could recognize the sound of the engine of his car and then head upstairs and under the bed. "Alcoholism affects EVERYTHING it comes into contact with.
I came to understand that making demands on my alcoholic addict and not attending to the demands on myself first was not good recovery for me. I doubled my meetings and made sure I was there for the teens who needed meetings in Alateen. Yes I sponsored Alateen meetings which helped my own recovery immeasureably (they learn faster than we do because they don't have as much time in the habit of the problem) and the programs are the same. Don't ask him to go...take him and then go to your own meeting...watch what happens. The alcoholic cannot cry alone...HP is always with them.
As for my alcoholic/addict wife? God used her as a teaching tool for me...a humility teaching tool which was incredible and the best tool HP had available. (((((hugs)))))
SerenityRUS said
Apr 21, 2017
Hugs PP,
I'm not sure what to say because both of my kids are not alanon teen kids, they have gone to private therapy and they totally know they are not alone in terms of my daughter seems to an outlet for kids you would never dream of who's parents have had addiction issues both boys and girls. She just lets them talk and shares what has worked for her .. her anxiety is what keeps her from the alanon meetings. She hates social pressures. Yet she'll go to theater in a heart beat .. go figure it's not as personal I guess. On statement to both my kids I have said is they have to give me 6 alanon meetings and it's when I choose .. it's fallen to the backburner because we are not living the insanity of active drinking/drugging.
What I can tell is you is YES it's scary sometimes it's REALLY hard, most of all my kids do feel relief they don't have to deal daily with their dad .. they actually have zero relationship with him because of the distance. It's a good thing.
My daughter is in a similar position senior year though and she has had to miss out on things .. what she has not missed out on is having friends over .. worrying about what might happen .. being subjected to whatever drama happens to go on. No .. again it's not ideal .. there is always hope. The one thing I have been able to give my kids other than anxiety .. LOL .. is the knowledge that whatever we are going through it is temporary. It is not permanent. Fear has kept me on opposite side of hope .. learning about my capabilities and what I can do better without my XAH was key.
The reality was I had to get there on my own .. in terms of when I was ready to really let go. I did learn not to make statements I was not prepared to back up 100%. Alanon helped me get there regardless of what the other people in my life were doing.
Hugs S :)
2HP said
Apr 21, 2017
(((hugs))) dear friend, I have been in your shoes regarding confusion over "enabling" as well as the feeling of being stuck in marriage due to financial dependence.
I will just focus on the topic of enabling, which to me is defined as feeding or supporting or giving the disease what it wants, it enables the disease to occur. I don't see how you did that. I see great strength in the kindness you displayed, you seem like an understanding wife with a sick husband. You don't like it, but you are learning to cope with it, just for today. (and doing really well, I might add)
Your husband feels you pulling away and of course he's going to freak out and become extremely upset... the disease is no longer supported, my husband did this too. The pulling away is a natural consequence and it may bring him to a bottom and it may not but..... it's not about manipulation. it's about you taking care of you and your son... by distancing if you have to, I so understand.
and you don't have to pretend anymore, you can be honest about how you feel... not required to be "upbeat" if you're not feeling it. for me, it felt good to get permission to take off the happy mask.
I sit here particularly touched over how "present" you were with your son. I am an adult child, recalling how these disasters were never explained to us...never. we were like ferrel children, left to fend for ourselves, trying to make sense of complete insanity. I can share that it is devastating to witness your parent having a breakdown.
I encourage you to keep doing what you are doing. I realize this is an uncomfortable time... and if you are anything like me.... you want to know what the future is going to hold. problem is, when I wonder too much about the future, I'm no longer at ease, I'm in fear. Fearing the future prevents me from cultivating FAITH in Higher Power...
Just for today, we don't know what we dont know and it's okay. we learn to develop faith while sitting in discomfort, I believe this is why God gave me a fellowship, and a sponsor... to keep me company while I learn to figure out how to take better care of myself.
Being where you are, I can remember how I leaned on the wisdom of step 3.... turning my will and life over to the care of God... with confident belief that it has ALWAYS been God caring for me ( not my husband like I had thought) and it will ALWAYS be God continuing to do so.... whether I stay or whether I go, doesn't matter... I can relax.
Please give your doggie kisses on the nose for me, xx
Jaeger said
Apr 21, 2017
PP,
I am so sorry you are having to go through this. Reading your story takes me right back to my own homelife just a couple of years ago. I stayed for many reasons but also for financial reasons. My RAH husband is now going on 2 yrs sober and although our life is much calmer, I'm still having problems forgiving myself for keeping my kids in that environment. I'm working on it but it's tough.
One thing I thought of reading your post that also made me think of situation is you talking about your son's age and college. My daughter would have been better off financially if I had left. She would have been eligible for grants. Just wanted to throw that out there.
Jaeger
Mattie said
Apr 21, 2017
I'm sorry this is happening. It sounds really worrying. And I wonder how the dog got cut. Dogs don't bleed just from worrying. So it sounds to me like something happened. And that things are not heading in a good direction.
When I was in a tough situation like this, I figured "Knowledge is power," and I did a lot of research about leaving my A. I talked to a lawyer who was experienced with alcoholics, and she helped me calculate what kind of child support I would be due, and how a separation would go. In my case, I made more money than my A, so the child support was not large, but in my state at least, there is a minimum level of child support that is required no matter what. In addition, you might not be able to afford the rent on your house, but could you afford the rent on an apartment? What would you do if, for example, your A got hit by a bus, or ran away with a floozy? Whatever you would do in those situations might be an option now. For instance, could you get a job, if you don't have one now? Or could you increase your income somehow, if you do have a job now?
My own view is that staying because you've decided it's the best thing for your relationship and your family, is better than staying because you feel trapped. So you may choose to stay, but it's better if you choose knowing you have options.
And I wonder what your son means by "Yeah, but that may not be any better." If you can show him that you can manage the finances, that would eliminate the worry about that problem. Or he may mean that he thinks that keeping the family together keeps your A from drinking even more. He may not know the Three C's: You didn't Cause it, you can't Cure it, you can't Control it. He will drink or not drink, together or not together. Staying with him may even be enabling him a little bit, giving him the false impression that his drinking has no bad consequences, and that he might as well keep drinking. Anyway, it might help to talk over what he means exactly with your son.
I know how hard it all is. Take good care of yourself.
shrnp said
Apr 21, 2017
Hello Posies,
I am not living with an alcoholic right now, but I know how hard it is. It is easy to forget that it is a disease. You are the only one that can decide how to best proceed with your relationship with your husband. There are a lot of people that stay in relationships with their alcoholic spouses. It is your family, and changing it right now might not be the right thing to do. I have had a difficult time understanding detaching with love. I have had times when I was not taking very good care of myself. It is so easy to slip into a bad pattern of behavior. I have found some good articles on the Internet about detachment and it really has helped to understand it. There must be some Alanon pamphlets or other literature about it. I would try to find things in your life that you enjoy and make yourself a priority at times. It sound like you have a good start on detaching. Don't feel bad about your relationship, make it work for you.
PosiesandPuppies said
Apr 22, 2017
Thank you everyone was sharing your thoughts.
I do have a few books on detachment and co-dependency, b/c my AH was a meth user a mere 6 yrs ago. He went to rehab, found his program and came through the other side. Funny thing, this alcoholism... it has been tougher for him to conquer. Probably b/c with the meth, I kicked him out, and his family got him a state-funded rehab. Now, he won't go b/c he is afraid of losing his job. Before, he was already unemployed. Before, I worked my own program and so I am not new to Al-Anon, but I am just angry I need to lean on it again. But I guess I shouldn't be, b/c it has opened my eyes to the fact that I have been "helping" my son manage his way through high school. I need to stop that! So, that is a bright spot to this mess. I am getting mentally healthier.
el-cee - I am attending meetings. But honestly, I find the ESH here easier to access. You are right , though... the last year before I found out about the alcoholism, I was obsessed with making my husband better, and it drove me crazy that he wouldn't keep his doctor appointments, take his meds, etc. Of course, now I get it - he was hiding his drinking, and remind myself that I cannot force him or control him.
Thank you Jerry & Serenity!
2HP - You are so right about the "Happy mask!" No one really knows or knew just how miserable and crazy my life has (and had) become b/c I always had the mask on! Thank you for recognizing what I did do right... I know it's the right thing, but sometimes I doubt myself. Currently, I am having a hard time accepting Step 3... I am angry that my HP would put me through this again. So I am stewing with that for awhile. I am unable to accept right now that this madness has some higher purpose.
Jaeger - Thank you. I had been wondering about that, actually.
Mattie - My dear Boxer cut her muzzle by pushing her way into my son's room (on the door jam, maybe?). Tonight she is much calmer. i have actually talked to my son about the three C's... mostly so he understands where I am coming from... b/c sometimes the detachment can look pretty cold... I am trying to do better. I too, believe 'knowledge is power,' so your ESH on finding a lawyer who is familiar with alcoholism might be what I need to feel less trapped. I think I will concentrate on that for now.
Thank you, shrnp, I needed to hear that!
BTW, tonight he was obviously slurring his words, so I knew he had been drinking, but at least he wasn't stumbling drunk! Ugh, that sounded sad reading it back... but it is what it is. Sometimes I think it funny what he can't remember from the night before... unless he gets mad and blames me for making it up... that's not fun. Tonight I had proof, so that shut him up! LOL!
Tomorrow, I am going to go with my son to his school's jazz band competition. Driving myself... didn't even ask AH if he wanted to join me, just told him what I was doing! It feels so liberating to not have the anxiety surrounding me about whether or not he will go, which husband will I get for the day etc.
Thank you all!
Iamhere said
Apr 22, 2017
(((Hugs))) PNP - so sorry that the disease raised up and caused insanity. This is 'the norm' it seems when we are living with the disease. I know in the moment, I always felt anxious, uncertain and the 'need to change ALL I could immediately'. I am a 'fix-it' kind of thinker so my mind would race with options when I felt the most fear (and insanity).
What helped greatly was time in recovery. One reason the program suggests we wait a while before making key decisions is because we need to have sane processing to have a sane plan. Staying or leaving - those are always 2 immediately available solutions. However, there are 'other choices' in-between that were not revealed to me until I began to focus on me....
I also understand the financial dependence. When you have children and are dependent on others for income, it just adds to the fear of failure, fear of success. I could write novels about the research I did on child support, alimony, custody, etc. but what seemed to make the most difference in my life was the program and recovery. I was so consumed with what my AH and later my A Sons were doing that most of what I did, said, felt, etc. was completely dependent on their actions, words, feelings and the such. I had completely lost myself in the disease by obsessing over them and what they were doing and how it was affecting me.
Submerging myself into the program was the best step I have made in my life. My sponsor suggested keeping really simple - each time I was bothered, obsessed, thinking about 'him' or 'them', I was to STOP and call her or another member. In time she added other options - call a program person, her or take a walk or go to a meeting. Literature was a constant suggestion so she waited a bit to add that as a 'go-to' when I (not them) was in crisis.
It took me a long time to realize they are going to do whatever they are going to do but I had choices. I could do as before, fret, silent treatment, freak out, yell, cry, obsess or I could try something new. It was the hardest thing I ever did, but it did make a huge difference in how I felt. Small successes (calling someone, taking a walk, going to a meeting) in letting things be and focusing on me gave me a bit of confidence to continue. I offered meetings, counseling and more for my children and just made sure to keep the doors open. They followed in the footsteps of the disease but they know where to go should they decide to seek recovery.
I was asked to put together a Plan B - all that was required was if I needed to remove myself for any reason for one day or two, what would I do? My plan B included sleep-overs with friend/relative and if I couldn't handle people, hotel. I did have a duffel bag in my car with needs for 2-3 days. Just 'this' gave me some peace.
I was asked to stop researching all the other as it was taking me away from today. Recovery is about one day at a time and every person I encountered who had what I wanted lived and planned by 'more will be revealed'. It's amazing how it works, but it does. We each walk a different path in our lives, yet we use the same steps and tools in recovery!
As far as the alcohol being tougher than the meth - speculation only - addictive people transfer substances very easily. For many, alcohol is the hardest to give up because it's 'legal' and others can do it without issue.....why can't I? This is part of the denial that comes with the disease and many trying to recover really get stuck here...
Keep leaning into your program and the answers will come!
PosiesandPuppies said
Apr 22, 2017
Thank you, Iamhere... so much I was able to take away from your post.
Bettertomorrow said
Apr 23, 2017
Hugs and hello PosiesandPuppies,
I have a similar situation to you, but with four children, my oldest being 17. Here is what I have learned / am learning:
- Even if my AH is drunk, dry drunk, drinking a bit I reached a decision that for me personally, I don't love him enough to want to be his spouse. He has not (yet, maybe never) really actively engaged with trying to stay sober, which may of course be colouring my decision, but at the end of the day my children take top priority. There are some people in my alanon group who say they adore their spouses, which maybe makes it easier for them to want to make it work, but I don't adore my husband and want to be free in the future to be beloved by someone whose priority is not alcohol.
- I told my AH as lovingly as I could that I feel that I no longer want to be in this marriage, but at the moment have no firm plans for how or when we leave because I simply don't know. Not having to have all the immediate answers made me feel so much better as I was being authentic to myself and as kindly honest as I could be to him. He keeps telling me he loves me more than anything, but at the end of the day his actions speak louder than words and I felt I had to be honest with him about how I felt.
- Our children are aware. Like yours, they would mainly like to be free of him, but worry about the financial impact. I have told them I am working on it and meantime keep the home as calm as I can.
- I do also feel that I am partially enabling him by 'allowing' him to be drunk at home - but in reality I don't have the money or friends to be able to leave the house with four children when that happens. What I have done is set up a room which I ask him to go to when he is drunk that is as separate as it can be from the house and we just get on with our lives in the rest of the house. It's not ideal, as it does feel like enabling, but at least it is out of sight and a short term solution.
- There is a lady in my alanon group who stayed with her AH for 18 years and feels that her children have turned out fine, so that has given me some hope. My worry, like yours, is what impact is this having on my children, but I just focus on what I can do to give them an honest role model who mainly keeps the home environment as calm as can be and shows them that they are a priority.
You sound like you have done so much already and I also take strength from your own ESH. Hugs.
PosiesandPuppies said
Apr 23, 2017
Thank you for sharing your story with me, Bettertomorrow. At least I have only one child to think of, and he is almost 17... so in some ways it is easier to speak to him about what is going on. I have briefly thought of letting my son know that all he has to do is say the word and we'd be gone... or I'd kick AH out. But then I began to feel that would actually put a heavy load on my son's shoulders. No child WANTS to be the one to cut ties...no matter how bad the disease. I am trusting that if he feels severely affected by it, that he will let me or his therapist know.
I loved your solution. I just wish we had a large enough home, or one that is set up in such a way that I could follow in your footsteps. But we don't. We only have 2 rooms, and an office-like space. The living room is in direct line of sight with the office and then our bedroom.
Saturday evening I came home and actually heard him cussing from out in the driveway! I went running into the house thinking something terrible had happened. He was just lying on the bed. "Why are you cussing like that? I can hear you all the way outside!" I told him. At first he didn't answer (I hate that). Then he said I'm angry! (yelling of course). "Why are you angry?" Again, no answer. Finally he told me he was angry that he hurt so bad. What can you say to that? We all know why he hurts. I just told him, "I am sorry you hurt. Is there anything I can get for you to feel better?" When he said no, I did actually tell him that I couldn't go on like this. I told him exactly what the household was like, what the pets were doing/feeling b/c of course he didn't remember a thing. I didn't tell him he had to drink elsewhere, but I did tell him he can't create such chaos in the house. I am closing the door to the bedroom - even though he wishes it to remain open.He hasn't said anything today, but when he does, I will tell him that we need that separation for our peace. I am learning that 'Nothing needs to be settled on today, this moment.'
What you said about providing your kids with an honest role model who is working on her health and providing calm amidst the chaos spoke volumes to me... thank you for sharing your strength!
Peace and light to you and your children.
KT2015 said
Apr 24, 2017
Hi Posies and Puppies, You have received so many great responses it is amazing. I thought your post had a lot of strength in it. I too live with an active AH and have a young daughter. She's too young for AL Ateen but she's not to young to learn some of the program through seeing it through me. The other day my daughter and my AH were getting into an argument. He was asserting his point and not listening to her and in fact being quite rude. She used to get so bent out of shape about that kind of thing but this time she turned to him said "Well that's your opinion and you're entitled to it" buckled up her seatbelt and moved on with her day. I was honestly shocked and I gave a little smile to my HP. This program has allowed me to take the focus off the AH and put it on myself and the important things in my life. By doing that I have been able to be there for my daughter in a way I never was in the past. In the past I was too focused on my AH to be any good to her. Now I have flipped that to a more healthy dynamic and it's good for both of us. We now have each other. I also grew up in an Alcoholic home and I agree with 2HP you are explaining what is going on to your son and that is such a good thing. He isn't left trying to make sense of what is happening he knows what is happening. That alone will be such a wonderful thing for him. My family always tried to pretend there was nothing wrong.
Bo said
Apr 24, 2017
PosiesandPuppies wrote:
Due to Al-Anon, I have been able to live with my active AH. I don't want to, but I cannot support myself and my teen son by myself, so I embrace whatever I can so that I can focus on me and not my AH. I have known him to be "dry-drunk," clean, and lately, what I call secret drinking. Drinking just enough to get him through his day, but not enough for me to know for sure if he is actually drinking. The old me would just HAVE to know the truth...the new me now couldn't care less... I realize he will do what he does. I need to focus on me. So our family of three have been kind of cruising along like this.
Yesterday he texts me about wanting me to hear this song... it's "Say You Won't Let Go," by James Arthur. I was terribly busy getting ready for work so I texted back that I would, but really, just the name set me off b/c in my head and in my heart I have already begun to let go. I think he feels this and that is why he was so adamant about me hearing this song. He texted back later and asked again and said "B/c that's how I feel about you." I just told him that yes, I did listen to the song and realized I had heard it already. That's it. What I wanted to say is I believe actions speak louder than words... and perhaps I will, but I was at work and didn't want to get into all that.
Today I got home from work at 5:30 ish and the TV was blaringly loud - I could hear it from outside in my driveway! I walk in and my AH is on the couch in his pajamas with his eyes closed. Red flags! Red flags! But I try to stay upbeat and ask him how his day was... try to keep a "normal" conversation going, but I can easily tell that he has been drinking... a lot. So when I got the offer to go walking with my friend, I accept. I told my AH that I will be back soon and pick up some dinner. He nods "OK." Of course I check in with my teen (whose in his room) and everything is fine with him, so I go. I get home 45 minutes later, and my AH is our bedroom bawling his eyes out. My dog is running around the house panting like she is panicked. My son comes out of his room to help me bring in the food, and I ask why is Gidget panting so hard? He said he wasn't sure, but he had to tell me something after I close the door - our house is set up so that when my bedroom door is open, there is a straight shot to the living room. Thus, we can hear everything that goes on with my AH while he is in the bedroom. His sighing, his crying, cussing, you get the picture. After I close the door my son proceeds to tell me that "Dad was really, really drunk earlier and it was super awkward. The dog kept running around and trying to push her way into my room each time I opened the door." She also had cut her muzzle somehow and was bleeding. So I cleaned that up and went in to ask my AH what was going on. He was bawling! I took a deep breath and chose to be compassionate. I asked him if he was OK, and if he wanted to talk about it. He told me he wants to but can't. So I leave, shut the doors and eat dinner with my son. A short time later he comes stumbling out, barely able to walk. He proceeds to pour him some cereal and I get up and ask him what is he doing? He looked at me with this blurry confused look and I reminded him that he asked for a certain meal, and that meal was in the microwave. He then took his food and retreated to his room, leaving the door open so we could hear him crying. Meanwhile the dog is freaking out.
I told my son that the dog is scared and really doesn't know how to deal with dad's emotions... he said, "Join the club!" I told him I hear you, I don't even know how to deal with this tonight either, but I think he's sad because he drank till he was drunk tonight and we all know that he has "fallen off the wagon." I asked if this ever happens again,to please call and text me and I will come straight home... b/c your well-being is my top priority. I told him I was so sorry that this is happening. He of course said, "YOU don't have to be sorry, you aren't causing this." And I answered, "Yes, I know but I am kind of allowing it to happen... I could always ask him to leave." My son's response was, "Yeah, but that may not be any better." He is very aware of our financial need for his dad at this moment.
The "next drunk" was going to be the last straw. I was going to ask him to leave. But I just can't seem to pull that trigger. I am afraid b/c I can't afford the rent alone, and my son is finishing his junior year in high school... So that's AP, SAT, ACT tests, as well as trying to keep the good grades he has so that he has a greater chance at college opportunities. So I am afraid to cause him more anxiety. He is seeing a therapist, so that's a good thing, but I don't think that would be enough for him right now. Especially hearing his answer to my thought of "Well, I could always ask him to leave."
The ESH I need? What did you do when your spouse was basically an active drinker but not pass-out drunk all the time... held down a job and provided most of the income? When does living with this become enabling them to continue drinking? How do I know if my inability to kick him out is doing damage to my teenage son? I have suggested Al-ATeen, but that was a huge NO GO from my son. I am tempted to have the boundary of "No drinking till drunk at home," to prevent this kind of night from occurring again, but all I can think about is my AH driving drunk in his company truck! What if he hit someone and caused a death? I don't think I could live with that. I am sorry this was so long, but I had a lot to vent! Your Experience, Strength, and Hope with this would be greatly appreciated!
I hear you, loud and clear. It is a very difficult situation to be in. The dilemma is one that can make you feel helpless, like there are no options. That said, let me say a few other things I think are very important. I bolded/underlined some of your comments -- and the reason I did is because you should be very proud of yourself!!! You've come a long way! The old you vs. the new you...that is YOU getting better, getting healthy. Don't discount that. That is important. In the face of drinking, all that is going on...you have been able to make progress and get better! That is something to be very proud of and very grateful for.
The actions speak louder than words -- yes, they do. Absolutely. Of course you should not have said that -- and you didn't! Good for you. However, you can keep that mindset. We know that the alcoholic will only stop drinking when and if they want to. Period. If he wants to -- his decision -- then he will. When he wants, when he's ready. So, actions do speak louder than words. If he makes that decision and wants to quit, get better, healthy, clean, sober, etc. -- and he does, and then he slips -- after the slip, his actions will tell you whether he wants to again (meaning again wants to quit, get better, healthy, get clean, sober, etc.). I have never been one to analyze, quantify, etc., the "how much" or "how often" or the "secret drinking" or anything of the like. That's just me. I didn't care of my wife was a pass out drunk all the time. I couldn't have a "part-time" marriage where my wife was drunk, but awake, and somewhat incoherent, not present, not able to be connected, have a conversation, etc. -- all because of her drinking. Again, that was just me.
Be that as it may -- what is acceptable and unacceptable is completely up to you. Perhaps you can make it more bearable, for the time being, if you "detach" more. If he's been drinking -- at all -- perhaps you should consider "not trying to keep a normal conversation going" so to speak. Does that solve the problem of his drinking? Of course not, however, all of us know that's not what we are trying to do. It might help you though. It might allow you to have more compassion, more understanding, and avoid the anger and resentment that may come as a result of his drinking "again" and it impacting you. By detaching, we can have the problem not impact us, or consume us, as it may have done in the past. The part about the meal/microwave -- while you don't want to waste food -- perhaps you "let it go" and let him go and get his cereal. He asked, he drank, he forgot, got confused, etc. Let him eat cereal. Perhaps let him feel and experience the consequences of his own actions. It might not be a big deal, but sometimes, the less interaction we have with the alcoholic (in this case, when he's been drinking), the better off we are. We stay out of the sickness, the interaction, the dialogue, etc. We stay out of the dance, even though it seems and might end up harmless.
The enabling part is not black and white. If you leave him to his own decisions, actions, and everything that comes from it -- the crying, the cursing, the isolation, etc. -- then he will have to deal with, handle, and feel the consequences of his own actions. Next time -- take your son out to dinner, a movie, the library, whatever. Or stay home and let him be, just as you did. But, stay clear and stay clean. Stay on your side of the street and don't bother with his. He can walk, talk (to himself, LOL), eat, drink, etc. -- he can do it all, so let him. With no involvement or interaction from you. Not 24/7, but just when this type of incident is going on. Right now, your focus needs to be on you, and your son. Taking action right now may not be idea. It may not be mandatory in your mind. That's OK. Should you keep going like this for 6 months? 6 years? That's up to you. The boundary is an excellent idea. Work on it with a sponsor -- and get some objectivity. How about something like -- if drinking, you and your son will leave the house. Or, if drinking, you and your son will not be exposed to it (both of you in your son's room, or your husband in the bedroom with door closed, and if not, then you and your son have plan b (and go into your son's room with the door closed or somewhere else). Personally, I would not try the no drinking until drunk thing -- that's you trying to control, govern, moderate, etc., his drinking, and that -- can be enabling, even more direct than you feel you are doing now. Not throwing him out now is not enabling. Maybe it would be if you did it for X years and you were "accepting unacceptable behavior" for you and your son.
Take a deep breath. Slow down. Go to face to face meetings. Find a sponsor. And start working on this with him/her. You are doing a very good job...keep doing it. Keep coming back.
-- Edited by Bo on Monday 24th of April 2017 10:01:26 AM
PosiesandPuppies said
Apr 25, 2017
Bo - thank you for your kind words. It is good to know that others can see my progress. Sometimes I think I am doing well, and other times I am not sure... that is when I remind myself of 'Progress not Perfection!'
I am going to meetings. But don't share much yet. I am still uncomfortable.
Thanks again!
PosiesandPuppies said
Apr 25, 2017
UPDATE:
I came home from work tonight, and drove past my AH driving south on the same street. Probably to the liquor store, I thought. When I came in the house, everything seemed normal. Kid in room, dog in bed etc. I checked on my kid, asked about his day and in that time hubby came home. At first I didn't think anything was wrong, but then he began to act strangely and told me he thought he had to go to the ER b/c he was having trouble breathing. Since he almost died from a PE 3 years ago, I said, OK, let's go. Then he said, wait, wait, wait. I think I just need to calm down. So I went over to him and rubbed his shoulders while he sat on the couch, trying to get him to breathe slowly, but also asking questions about what he was feeling to make sure it wasn't another PE. Then I looked down and saw it... the unmistakable shape of a vodka bottle in his pocket. I then tapped on it and said, So, what's this? "My wallet" he said. Riiiiiggght!
Actually, looking back, I am proud that I just simply stated, "Come on now, we both know what it is, why be coy about it?" He then didn't want me touching/helping him at all! So I walked away wondering what I was going to do about this... kick him out? I then decided I did not have to decide on this right now. So I got my dog on a leash, told my kid we were going out for dinner, and then told my AH that He just can't do this... he needs to close himself in the bedroom if he is going to drink. I then told him DS and I are going to get something to eat and we are going to eat it at my mom & dad's house. We will be back later. He then tells me that he wants to leave, but doesn't know where to go, and starts crying. I asked him, "How about calling your nephew?" In a very mean voice he says, "That won't help me at all!" So I just walked out the door. After my son came out, we left.
Had a great dinner, visited with my mom and dad (they know everything) and luckily, no stupid texts from AH. When we got home, kid went to room and I just sat and watched TV, while AH wandered in and out. He is in obvious discomfort. I asked him if he was like this at work, b/c it is VERY loud and I can't fathom how no one at his work wouldn't offer him help. "NO." I then offered, I wonder if that's because you drink when you get home, and you don't drink at work? "No, that's not why." he said. I told him I was sorry he was hurting and then walked out and closed the bedroom door. I am hoping that he decides to leave... but I realize he probably won't.
It's a true PITA...he won't seek help b/c he KNOWS his symptoms are due to drinking, but won't do anything to help himself. I am beginning to wonder if there is even a bottom for him.
Thank you for listening.
Bettertomorrow said
Apr 25, 2017
It sounds like you are doing a great job - focusing on what you can do and control and taking care of you and your son. I have found that by being assertive and using the 'broken record' (repetition) technique - what I want is slowly getting through. My message to my AH is 'I will not allow this to continue. We need to separate. I am focusing on myself and our children. If you wish to continue drinking, that is your decision and I respect that, but it will not happen in our family home. Please find somewhere to move out'.
When he is drunk, I ask him to go to his room. I did also consider 'throwing him out' (as most of my friends suggest), but actually I can't really control that as I can't physically shove him out of the house.
The way I am doing it is slow - but he is looking to go (I think...). We are also seeing more negative behaviours from him - but I think this is because we are not dancing to his tune anymore and just get on with our life. It was my second youngest son's birthday yesterday as he turned 13. My AH had done nothing to arrange or input to cards, gifts, our family dinner etc. Normally I would have let him sign the card and pretend the gifts and plans were from both of us. This year I simply said if you don't want to get involved, then you need to arrange your own card and gift if you wish to do anything. He chose to spend the money on alcohol - so no present from him and at one point he phoned me from the card shop to ask how old our son was! At the end of the day, he spent the whole evening asleep, but we all had a good time without him. It wasn't ideal for our son - but we were being authentic and I simply said dad will do stuff with you when he is ready. We / you (PNP) are worth so much more and with al anons help it sounds like you are getting there. Hugs Better today
Iamhere said
Apr 25, 2017
PnP - sending you tons of hugs, positive thoughts and prayers. It is not easy and can be maddening - I so remember what you are feeling....I was fortunate to have a sponsor when I came to Al-Anon and she suggested at times like this when I was working hard to practice my recovery/program, that I focus on what is working (gratitude) vs. what is not working (old patterns of thinking for me).
I see so much progress - you showed compassion, you practiced self-care, you detached, etc. Keep working it - it looks good on you.
Due to Al-Anon, I have been able to live with my active AH. I don't want to, but I cannot support myself and my teen son by myself, so I embrace whatever I can so that I can focus on me and not my AH. I have known him to be "dry-drunk," clean, and lately, what I call secret drinking. Drinking just enough to get him through his day, but not enough for me to know for sure if he is actually drinking. The old me would just HAVE to know the truth...the new me now couldn't care less... I realize he will do what he does. I need to focus on me. So our family of three have been kind of cruising along like this.
Yesterday he texts me about wanting me to hear this song... it's "Say You Won't Let Go," by James Arthur. I was terribly busy getting ready for work so I texted back that I would, but really, just the name set me off b/c in my head and in my heart I have already begun to let go. I think he feels this and that is why he was so adamant about me hearing this song. He texted back later and asked again and said "B/c that's how I feel about you." I just told him that yes, I did listen to the song and realized I had heard it already. That's it. What I wanted to say is I believe actions speak louder than words... and perhaps I will, but I was at work and didn't want to get into all that.
Today I got home from work at 5:30 ish and the TV was blaringly loud - I could hear it from outside in my driveway! I walk in and my AH is on the couch in his pajamas with his eyes closed. Red flags! Red flags! But I try to stay upbeat and ask him how his day was... try to keep a "normal" conversation going, but I can easily tell that he has been drinking... a lot. So when I got the offer to go walking with my friend, I accept. I told my AH that I will be back soon and pick up some dinner. He nods "OK." Of course I check in with my teen (whose in his room) and everything is fine with him, so I go. I get home 45 minutes later, and my AH is our bedroom bawling his eyes out. My dog is running around the house panting like she is panicked. My son comes out of his room to help me bring in the food, and I ask why is Gidget panting so hard? He said he wasn't sure, but he had to tell me something after I close the door - our house is set up so that when my bedroom door is open, there is a straight shot to the living room. Thus, we can hear everything that goes on with my AH while he is in the bedroom. His sighing, his crying, cussing, you get the picture. After I close the door my son proceeds to tell me that "Dad was really, really drunk earlier and it was super awkward. The dog kept running around and trying to push her way into my room each time I opened the door." She also had cut her muzzle somehow and was bleeding. So I cleaned that up and went in to ask my AH what was going on. He was bawling! I took a deep breath and chose to be compassionate. I asked him if he was OK, and if he wanted to talk about it. He told me he wants to but can't. So I leave, shut the doors and eat dinner with my son. A short time later he comes stumbling out, barely able to walk. He proceeds to pour him some cereal and I get up and ask him what is he doing? He looked at me with this blurry confused look and I reminded him that he asked for a certain meal, and that meal was in the microwave. He then took his food and retreated to his room, leaving the door open so we could hear him crying. Meanwhile the dog is freaking out.
I told my son that the dog is scared and really doesn't know how to deal with dad's emotions... he said, "Join the club!" I told him I hear you, I don't even know how to deal with this tonight either, but I think he's sad because he drank till he was drunk tonight and we all know that he has "fallen off the wagon." I asked if this ever happens again,to please call and text me and I will come straight home... b/c your well-being is my top priority. I told him I was so sorry that this is happening. He of course said, "YOU don't have to be sorry, you aren't causing this." And I answered, "Yes, I know but I am kind of allowing it to happen... I could always ask him to leave." My son's response was, "Yeah, but that may not be any better." He is very aware of our financial need for his dad at this moment.
The "next drunk" was going to be the last straw. I was going to ask him to leave. But I just can't seem to pull that trigger. I am afraid b/c I can't afford the rent alone, and my son is finishing his junior year in high school... So that's AP, SAT, ACT tests, as well as trying to keep the good grades he has so that he has a greater chance at college opportunities. So I am afraid to cause him more anxiety. He is seeing a therapist, so that's a good thing, but I don't think that would be enough for him right now. Especially hearing his answer to my thought of "Well, I could always ask him to leave."
The ESH I need? What did you do when your spouse was basically an active drinker but not pass-out drunk all the time... held down a job and provided most of the income? When does living with this become enabling them to continue drinking? How do I know if my inability to kick him out is doing damage to my teenage son? I have suggested Al-ATeen, but that was a huge NO GO from my son. I am tempted to have the boundary of "No drinking till drunk at home," to prevent this kind of night from occurring again, but all I can think about is my AH driving drunk in his company truck! What if he hit someone and caused a death? I don't think I could live with that. I am sorry this was so long, but I had a lot to vent! Your Experience, Strength, and Hope with this would be greatly appreciated!
We can become obsessed with the drinker, feel so sorry for them and put them right in the centre of our thoughts and our life. This is what we are recovering from. We learn to get perspective and see the full picture and we stop being a human sacrifice to anyone. I really hope you and your son get relief from this, it sounds awful. Your husbands behaviour is unacceptable. His wailing and self pity is attention seeking and manipulative to the max. I believe your actions are really healthy, your not buying into this and your focusing on your son and yourself so good for you.
I also had a Al-Anon sister where I attended program who had a dog that was so drunk conscious it could recognize the sound of the engine of his car and then head upstairs and under the bed. "Alcoholism affects EVERYTHING it comes into contact with.
I came to understand that making demands on my alcoholic addict and not attending to the demands on myself first was not good recovery for me. I doubled my meetings and made sure I was there for the teens who needed meetings in Alateen. Yes I sponsored Alateen meetings which helped my own recovery immeasureably (they learn faster than we do because they don't have as much time in the habit of the problem) and the programs are the same. Don't ask him to go...take him and then go to your own meeting...watch what happens. The alcoholic cannot cry alone...HP is always with them.
As for my alcoholic/addict wife? God used her as a teaching tool for me...a humility teaching tool which was incredible and the best tool HP had available. (((((hugs)))))
I'm not sure what to say because both of my kids are not alanon teen kids, they have gone to private therapy and they totally know they are not alone in terms of my daughter seems to an outlet for kids you would never dream of who's parents have had addiction issues both boys and girls. She just lets them talk and shares what has worked for her .. her anxiety is what keeps her from the alanon meetings. She hates social pressures. Yet she'll go to theater in a heart beat .. go figure it's not as personal I guess. On statement to both my kids I have said is they have to give me 6 alanon meetings and it's when I choose .. it's fallen to the backburner because we are not living the insanity of active drinking/drugging.
What I can tell is you is YES it's scary sometimes it's REALLY hard, most of all my kids do feel relief they don't have to deal daily with their dad .. they actually have zero relationship with him because of the distance. It's a good thing.
My daughter is in a similar position senior year though and she has had to miss out on things .. what she has not missed out on is having friends over .. worrying about what might happen .. being subjected to whatever drama happens to go on. No .. again it's not ideal .. there is always hope. The one thing I have been able to give my kids other than anxiety .. LOL .. is the knowledge that whatever we are going through it is temporary. It is not permanent. Fear has kept me on opposite side of hope .. learning about my capabilities and what I can do better without my XAH was key.
The reality was I had to get there on my own .. in terms of when I was ready to really let go. I did learn not to make statements I was not prepared to back up 100%. Alanon helped me get there regardless of what the other people in my life were doing.
Hugs S :)
I will just focus on the topic of enabling, which to me is defined as feeding or supporting or giving the disease what it wants, it enables the disease to occur. I don't see how you did that. I see great strength in the kindness you displayed, you seem like an understanding wife with a sick husband. You don't like it, but you are learning to cope with it, just for today. (and doing really well, I might add)
Your husband feels you pulling away and of course he's going to freak out and become extremely upset... the disease is no longer supported, my husband did this too. The pulling away is a natural consequence and it may bring him to a bottom and it may not but..... it's not about manipulation. it's about you taking care of you and your son... by distancing if you have to, I so understand.
and you don't have to pretend anymore, you can be honest about how you feel... not required to be "upbeat" if you're not feeling it. for me, it felt good to get permission to take off the happy mask.
I sit here particularly touched over how "present" you were with your son. I am an adult child, recalling how these disasters were never explained to us...never. we were like ferrel children, left to fend for ourselves, trying to make sense of complete insanity. I can share that it is devastating to witness your parent having a breakdown.
I encourage you to keep doing what you are doing. I realize this is an uncomfortable time... and if you are anything like me.... you want to know what the future is going to hold. problem is, when I wonder too much about the future, I'm no longer at ease, I'm in fear. Fearing the future prevents me from cultivating FAITH in Higher Power...
Just for today, we don't know what we dont know and it's okay. we learn to develop faith while sitting in discomfort, I believe this is why God gave me a fellowship, and a sponsor... to keep me company while I learn to figure out how to take better care of myself.
Being where you are, I can remember how I leaned on the wisdom of step 3.... turning my will and life over to the care of God... with confident belief that it has ALWAYS been God caring for me ( not my husband like I had thought) and it will ALWAYS be God continuing to do so.... whether I stay or whether I go, doesn't matter... I can relax.
Please give your doggie kisses on the nose for me, xx
PP,
I am so sorry you are having to go through this. Reading your story takes me right back to my own homelife just a couple of years ago. I stayed for many reasons but also for financial reasons. My RAH husband is now going on 2 yrs sober and although our life is much calmer, I'm still having problems forgiving myself for keeping my kids in that environment. I'm working on it but it's tough.
One thing I thought of reading your post that also made me think of situation is you talking about your son's age and college. My daughter would have been better off financially if I had left. She would have been eligible for grants. Just wanted to throw that out there.
Jaeger
I'm sorry this is happening. It sounds really worrying. And I wonder how the dog got cut. Dogs don't bleed just from worrying. So it sounds to me like something happened. And that things are not heading in a good direction.
When I was in a tough situation like this, I figured "Knowledge is power," and I did a lot of research about leaving my A. I talked to a lawyer who was experienced with alcoholics, and she helped me calculate what kind of child support I would be due, and how a separation would go. In my case, I made more money than my A, so the child support was not large, but in my state at least, there is a minimum level of child support that is required no matter what. In addition, you might not be able to afford the rent on your house, but could you afford the rent on an apartment? What would you do if, for example, your A got hit by a bus, or ran away with a floozy? Whatever you would do in those situations might be an option now. For instance, could you get a job, if you don't have one now? Or could you increase your income somehow, if you do have a job now?
My own view is that staying because you've decided it's the best thing for your relationship and your family, is better than staying because you feel trapped. So you may choose to stay, but it's better if you choose knowing you have options.
And I wonder what your son means by "Yeah, but that may not be any better." If you can show him that you can manage the finances, that would eliminate the worry about that problem. Or he may mean that he thinks that keeping the family together keeps your A from drinking even more. He may not know the Three C's: You didn't Cause it, you can't Cure it, you can't Control it. He will drink or not drink, together or not together. Staying with him may even be enabling him a little bit, giving him the false impression that his drinking has no bad consequences, and that he might as well keep drinking. Anyway, it might help to talk over what he means exactly with your son.
I know how hard it all is. Take good care of yourself.
I am not living with an alcoholic right now, but I know how hard it is. It is easy to forget that it is a disease. You are the only one that can decide how to best proceed with your relationship with your husband. There are a lot of people that stay in relationships with their alcoholic spouses. It is your family, and changing it right now might not be the right thing to do. I have had a difficult time understanding detaching with love. I have had times when I was not taking very good care of myself. It is so easy to slip into a bad pattern of behavior. I have found some good articles on the Internet about detachment and it really has helped to understand it. There must be some Alanon pamphlets or other literature about it. I would try to find things in your life that you enjoy and make yourself a priority at times. It sound like you have a good start on detaching. Don't feel bad about your relationship, make it work for you.
I do have a few books on detachment and co-dependency, b/c my AH was a meth user a mere 6 yrs ago. He went to rehab, found his program and came through the other side. Funny thing, this alcoholism... it has been tougher for him to conquer. Probably b/c with the meth, I kicked him out, and his family got him a state-funded rehab. Now, he won't go b/c he is afraid of losing his job. Before, he was already unemployed. Before, I worked my own program and so I am not new to Al-Anon, but I am just angry I need to lean on it again. But I guess I shouldn't be, b/c it has opened my eyes to the fact that I have been "helping" my son manage his way through high school. I need to stop that! So, that is a bright spot to this mess. I am getting mentally healthier.
el-cee - I am attending meetings. But honestly, I find the ESH here easier to access. You are right , though... the last year before I found out about the alcoholism, I was obsessed with making my husband better, and it drove me crazy that he wouldn't keep his doctor appointments, take his meds, etc. Of course, now I get it - he was hiding his drinking, and remind myself that I cannot force him or control him.
Thank you Jerry & Serenity!
2HP - You are so right about the "Happy mask!" No one really knows or knew just how miserable and crazy my life has (and had) become b/c I always had the mask on! Thank you for recognizing what I did do right... I know it's the right thing, but sometimes I doubt myself. Currently, I am having a hard time accepting Step 3... I am angry that my HP would put me through this again. So I am stewing with that for awhile. I am unable to accept right now that this madness has some higher purpose.
Jaeger - Thank you. I had been wondering about that, actually.
Mattie - My dear Boxer cut her muzzle by pushing her way into my son's room (on the door jam, maybe?). Tonight she is much calmer. i have actually talked to my son about the three C's... mostly so he understands where I am coming from... b/c sometimes the detachment can look pretty cold... I am trying to do better. I too, believe 'knowledge is power,' so your ESH on finding a lawyer who is familiar with alcoholism might be what I need to feel less trapped. I think I will concentrate on that for now.
Thank you, shrnp, I needed to hear that!
BTW, tonight he was obviously slurring his words, so I knew he had been drinking, but at least he wasn't stumbling drunk! Ugh, that sounded sad reading it back... but it is what it is. Sometimes I think it funny what he can't remember from the night before... unless he gets mad and blames me for making it up... that's not fun. Tonight I had proof, so that shut him up! LOL!
Tomorrow, I am going to go with my son to his school's jazz band competition. Driving myself... didn't even ask AH if he wanted to join me, just told him what I was doing! It feels so liberating to not have the anxiety surrounding me about whether or not he will go, which husband will I get for the day etc.
Thank you all!
What helped greatly was time in recovery. One reason the program suggests we wait a while before making key decisions is because we need to have sane processing to have a sane plan. Staying or leaving - those are always 2 immediately available solutions. However, there are 'other choices' in-between that were not revealed to me until I began to focus on me....
I also understand the financial dependence. When you have children and are dependent on others for income, it just adds to the fear of failure, fear of success. I could write novels about the research I did on child support, alimony, custody, etc. but what seemed to make the most difference in my life was the program and recovery. I was so consumed with what my AH and later my A Sons were doing that most of what I did, said, felt, etc. was completely dependent on their actions, words, feelings and the such. I had completely lost myself in the disease by obsessing over them and what they were doing and how it was affecting me.
Submerging myself into the program was the best step I have made in my life. My sponsor suggested keeping really simple - each time I was bothered, obsessed, thinking about 'him' or 'them', I was to STOP and call her or another member. In time she added other options - call a program person, her or take a walk or go to a meeting. Literature was a constant suggestion so she waited a bit to add that as a 'go-to' when I (not them) was in crisis.
It took me a long time to realize they are going to do whatever they are going to do but I had choices. I could do as before, fret, silent treatment, freak out, yell, cry, obsess or I could try something new. It was the hardest thing I ever did, but it did make a huge difference in how I felt. Small successes (calling someone, taking a walk, going to a meeting) in letting things be and focusing on me gave me a bit of confidence to continue. I offered meetings, counseling and more for my children and just made sure to keep the doors open. They followed in the footsteps of the disease but they know where to go should they decide to seek recovery.
I was asked to put together a Plan B - all that was required was if I needed to remove myself for any reason for one day or two, what would I do? My plan B included sleep-overs with friend/relative and if I couldn't handle people, hotel. I did have a duffel bag in my car with needs for 2-3 days. Just 'this' gave me some peace.
I was asked to stop researching all the other as it was taking me away from today. Recovery is about one day at a time and every person I encountered who had what I wanted lived and planned by 'more will be revealed'. It's amazing how it works, but it does. We each walk a different path in our lives, yet we use the same steps and tools in recovery!
As far as the alcohol being tougher than the meth - speculation only - addictive people transfer substances very easily. For many, alcohol is the hardest to give up because it's 'legal' and others can do it without issue.....why can't I? This is part of the denial that comes with the disease and many trying to recover really get stuck here...
Keep leaning into your program and the answers will come!
Hugs and hello PosiesandPuppies,
I have a similar situation to you, but with four children, my oldest being 17. Here is what I have learned / am learning:
- Even if my AH is drunk, dry drunk, drinking a bit I reached a decision that for me personally, I don't love him enough to want to be his spouse. He has not (yet, maybe never) really actively engaged with trying to stay sober, which may of course be colouring my decision, but at the end of the day my children take top priority. There are some people in my alanon group who say they adore their spouses, which maybe makes it easier for them to want to make it work, but I don't adore my husband and want to be free in the future to be beloved by someone whose priority is not alcohol.
- I told my AH as lovingly as I could that I feel that I no longer want to be in this marriage, but at the moment have no firm plans for how or when we leave because I simply don't know. Not having to have all the immediate answers made me feel so much better as I was being authentic to myself and as kindly honest as I could be to him. He keeps telling me he loves me more than anything, but at the end of the day his actions speak louder than words and I felt I had to be honest with him about how I felt.
- Our children are aware. Like yours, they would mainly like to be free of him, but worry about the financial impact. I have told them I am working on it and meantime keep the home as calm as I can.
- I do also feel that I am partially enabling him by 'allowing' him to be drunk at home - but in reality I don't have the money or friends to be able to leave the house with four children when that happens. What I have done is set up a room which I ask him to go to when he is drunk that is as separate as it can be from the house and we just get on with our lives in the rest of the house. It's not ideal, as it does feel like enabling, but at least it is out of sight and a short term solution.
- There is a lady in my alanon group who stayed with her AH for 18 years and feels that her children have turned out fine, so that has given me some hope. My worry, like yours, is what impact is this having on my children, but I just focus on what I can do to give them an honest role model who mainly keeps the home environment as calm as can be and shows them that they are a priority.
You sound like you have done so much already and I also take strength from your own ESH. Hugs.
I loved your solution. I just wish we had a large enough home, or one that is set up in such a way that I could follow in your footsteps. But we don't. We only have 2 rooms, and an office-like space. The living room is in direct line of sight with the office and then our bedroom.
Saturday evening I came home and actually heard him cussing from out in the driveway! I went running into the house thinking something terrible had happened. He was just lying on the bed. "Why are you cussing like that? I can hear you all the way outside!" I told him. At first he didn't answer (I hate that). Then he said I'm angry! (yelling of course). "Why are you angry?" Again, no answer. Finally he told me he was angry that he hurt so bad. What can you say to that? We all know why he hurts. I just told him, "I am sorry you hurt. Is there anything I can get for you to feel better?" When he said no, I did actually tell him that I couldn't go on like this. I told him exactly what the household was like, what the pets were doing/feeling b/c of course he didn't remember a thing. I didn't tell him he had to drink elsewhere, but I did tell him he can't create such chaos in the house. I am closing the door to the bedroom - even though he wishes it to remain open.He hasn't said anything today, but when he does, I will tell him that we need that separation for our peace. I am learning that 'Nothing needs to be settled on today, this moment.'
What you said about providing your kids with an honest role model who is working on her health and providing calm amidst the chaos spoke volumes to me... thank you for sharing your strength!
Peace and light to you and your children.
I hear you, loud and clear. It is a very difficult situation to be in. The dilemma is one that can make you feel helpless, like there are no options. That said, let me say a few other things I think are very important. I bolded/underlined some of your comments -- and the reason I did is because you should be very proud of yourself!!! You've come a long way! The old you vs. the new you...that is YOU getting better, getting healthy. Don't discount that. That is important. In the face of drinking, all that is going on...you have been able to make progress and get better! That is something to be very proud of and very grateful for.
The actions speak louder than words -- yes, they do. Absolutely. Of course you should not have said that -- and you didn't! Good for you. However, you can keep that mindset. We know that the alcoholic will only stop drinking when and if they want to. Period. If he wants to -- his decision -- then he will. When he wants, when he's ready. So, actions do speak louder than words. If he makes that decision and wants to quit, get better, healthy, clean, sober, etc. -- and he does, and then he slips -- after the slip, his actions will tell you whether he wants to again (meaning again wants to quit, get better, healthy, get clean, sober, etc.). I have never been one to analyze, quantify, etc., the "how much" or "how often" or the "secret drinking" or anything of the like. That's just me. I didn't care of my wife was a pass out drunk all the time. I couldn't have a "part-time" marriage where my wife was drunk, but awake, and somewhat incoherent, not present, not able to be connected, have a conversation, etc. -- all because of her drinking. Again, that was just me.
Be that as it may -- what is acceptable and unacceptable is completely up to you. Perhaps you can make it more bearable, for the time being, if you "detach" more. If he's been drinking -- at all -- perhaps you should consider "not trying to keep a normal conversation going" so to speak. Does that solve the problem of his drinking? Of course not, however, all of us know that's not what we are trying to do. It might help you though. It might allow you to have more compassion, more understanding, and avoid the anger and resentment that may come as a result of his drinking "again" and it impacting you. By detaching, we can have the problem not impact us, or consume us, as it may have done in the past. The part about the meal/microwave -- while you don't want to waste food -- perhaps you "let it go" and let him go and get his cereal. He asked, he drank, he forgot, got confused, etc. Let him eat cereal. Perhaps let him feel and experience the consequences of his own actions. It might not be a big deal, but sometimes, the less interaction we have with the alcoholic (in this case, when he's been drinking), the better off we are. We stay out of the sickness, the interaction, the dialogue, etc. We stay out of the dance, even though it seems and might end up harmless.
The enabling part is not black and white. If you leave him to his own decisions, actions, and everything that comes from it -- the crying, the cursing, the isolation, etc. -- then he will have to deal with, handle, and feel the consequences of his own actions. Next time -- take your son out to dinner, a movie, the library, whatever. Or stay home and let him be, just as you did. But, stay clear and stay clean. Stay on your side of the street and don't bother with his. He can walk, talk (to himself, LOL), eat, drink, etc. -- he can do it all, so let him. With no involvement or interaction from you. Not 24/7, but just when this type of incident is going on. Right now, your focus needs to be on you, and your son. Taking action right now may not be idea. It may not be mandatory in your mind. That's OK. Should you keep going like this for 6 months? 6 years? That's up to you. The boundary is an excellent idea. Work on it with a sponsor -- and get some objectivity. How about something like -- if drinking, you and your son will leave the house. Or, if drinking, you and your son will not be exposed to it (both of you in your son's room, or your husband in the bedroom with door closed, and if not, then you and your son have plan b (and go into your son's room with the door closed or somewhere else). Personally, I would not try the no drinking until drunk thing -- that's you trying to control, govern, moderate, etc., his drinking, and that -- can be enabling, even more direct than you feel you are doing now. Not throwing him out now is not enabling. Maybe it would be if you did it for X years and you were "accepting unacceptable behavior" for you and your son.
Take a deep breath. Slow down. Go to face to face meetings. Find a sponsor. And start working on this with him/her. You are doing a very good job...keep doing it. Keep coming back.
-- Edited by Bo on Monday 24th of April 2017 10:01:26 AM
Bo - thank you for your kind words. It is good to know that others can see my progress. Sometimes I think I am doing well, and other times I am not sure... that is when I remind myself of 'Progress not Perfection!'
I am going to meetings. But don't share much yet. I am still uncomfortable.
Thanks again!
I came home from work tonight, and drove past my AH driving south on the same street. Probably to the liquor store, I thought. When I came in the house, everything seemed normal. Kid in room, dog in bed etc. I checked on my kid, asked about his day and in that time hubby came home. At first I didn't think anything was wrong, but then he began to act strangely and told me he thought he had to go to the ER b/c he was having trouble breathing. Since he almost died from a PE 3 years ago, I said, OK, let's go. Then he said, wait, wait, wait. I think I just need to calm down. So I went over to him and rubbed his shoulders while he sat on the couch, trying to get him to breathe slowly, but also asking questions about what he was feeling to make sure it wasn't another PE. Then I looked down and saw it... the unmistakable shape of a vodka bottle in his pocket. I then tapped on it and said, So, what's this? "My wallet" he said. Riiiiiggght!
Actually, looking back, I am proud that I just simply stated, "Come on now, we both know what it is, why be coy about it?" He then didn't want me touching/helping him at all! So I walked away wondering what I was going to do about this... kick him out? I then decided I did not have to decide on this right now. So I got my dog on a leash, told my kid we were going out for dinner, and then told my AH that He just can't do this... he needs to close himself in the bedroom if he is going to drink. I then told him DS and I are going to get something to eat and we are going to eat it at my mom & dad's house. We will be back later. He then tells me that he wants to leave, but doesn't know where to go, and starts crying. I asked him, "How about calling your nephew?" In a very mean voice he says, "That won't help me at all!" So I just walked out the door. After my son came out, we left.
Had a great dinner, visited with my mom and dad (they know everything) and luckily, no stupid texts from AH. When we got home, kid went to room and I just sat and watched TV, while AH wandered in and out. He is in obvious discomfort. I asked him if he was like this at work, b/c it is VERY loud and I can't fathom how no one at his work wouldn't offer him help. "NO." I then offered, I wonder if that's because you drink when you get home, and you don't drink at work? "No, that's not why." he said. I told him I was sorry he was hurting and then walked out and closed the bedroom door. I am hoping that he decides to leave... but I realize he probably won't.
It's a true PITA...he won't seek help b/c he KNOWS his symptoms are due to drinking, but won't do anything to help himself. I am beginning to wonder if there is even a bottom for him.
Thank you for listening.
It sounds like you are doing a great job - focusing on what you can do and control and taking care of you and your son. I have found that by being assertive and using the 'broken record' (repetition) technique - what I want is slowly getting through. My message to my AH is 'I will not allow this to continue. We need to separate. I am focusing on myself and our children. If you wish to continue drinking, that is your decision and I respect that, but it will not happen in our family home. Please find somewhere to move out'.
When he is drunk, I ask him to go to his room. I did also consider 'throwing him out' (as most of my friends suggest), but actually I can't really control that as I can't physically shove him out of the house.
The way I am doing it is slow - but he is looking to go (I think...). We are also seeing more negative behaviours from him - but I think this is because we are not dancing to his tune anymore and just get on with our life. It was my second youngest son's birthday yesterday as he turned 13. My AH had done nothing to arrange or input to cards, gifts, our family dinner etc. Normally I would have let him sign the card and pretend the gifts and plans were from both of us. This year I simply said if you don't want to get involved, then you need to arrange your own card and gift if you wish to do anything. He chose to spend the money on alcohol - so no present from him and at one point he phoned me from the card shop to ask how old our son was! At the end of the day, he spent the whole evening asleep, but we all had a good time without him. It wasn't ideal for our son - but we were being authentic and I simply said dad will do stuff with you when he is ready. We / you (PNP) are worth so much more and with al anons help it sounds like you are getting there. Hugs Better today
I see so much progress - you showed compassion, you practiced self-care, you detached, etc. Keep working it - it looks good on you.
(((Hugs)))