Super interesting topic and discussion this morning at the Easter Feaster and annual celebration that my home group puts on every year. Attending the discussion was myself, my sponsor and a couple other guys and it was started by a sponsee. My sponsee had concerns on several fears and my sponsor was rock solid on his self awareness. I've never come to understand fear so don't know much about it on physical/emotional levels. That didn't stop me from listening and investigating and inventorying the subject again. I have never or rarely been identified as being a fearful individual so therefore take the position of being fearless. My sponsor understands my mind set as similar to his own though he identified his fear as being the feeling of hopelessness. I have not and don't consider myself hopeless especially in light of what I have come to understand as the personality and character of a power greater than myself. My sponsor and I have the similar core culture of being Hawaiian which contains a believe and total acceptance of a creator entity which has created all of us and everything around us including deep understanding of it all and having names for each and every thing and picture representations. Our understandings are metaphorical. When I don't understand what you are telling me I want you to draw me a picture.
My sponsee is from the north...off island and comes with different understandings. Part way thru the discussion he responded or interjected into my offering with "Right there you are wrong" and I responded, "what you just said was disrespectful" which caused him to react in silence. I told him "not because you are less than or bad and because you don't understand where I come from and know". He listened, understood and apologized...He is not Hawaiian and doesn't know our history and culture. My sponsor and I are born and raised within the same culture which for me makes the sponsorship relationship so pono...so appropriate and good. While the discussion was going on I continued to listen with my eyes and my ears while leaning upon my Higher Power/creator father...Akua for understand of the original question. What is my greatest fear?
The answer came from placing myself in my sponsees shoes...position being a foreigner and relying upon foreign experiences which cause him confusion while living here and causing him to respond to natives in appropriately with false impressions. His impressions are not universal one shoe fits all. They put up a wall against understanding which arrive from others unlike himself. He showed me that if I was to have a fear it would be that I was hopeless or could ever be and that came with a knot in my stomach which my sponsor agreed was the fear signal. UGH! My sponsor agreed with me that hopelessness is the one fear he also has and wishes to be more like me more fearless. My relationship with my Higher Power diminishes the presence of fear in my life which is a merciful grace. I am supremely grateful for the relationship.
We do agree that the culture of recovery is often much like the culture we were created into. Mahalo Piha Ohana...Thank you endlessly Family. (((((hugs)))))
-- Edited by Jerry F on Sunday 16th of April 2017 06:44:54 PM
SerenityRUS said
Apr 16, 2017
That's such a great conversation .. I have fears I'm not fearful. I have seen specifically to many women specifically live in fear. It's so utterly wasteful. I did live my life with my qualifier in fear of him leaving which is exactly what happened lol. That was the most freeing thing that happened because my ultimate fear being realized .. I survived in spite of it. Healed on many levels .. Which was a blessing. That old adage what you fear you bring to yourself. That was true for me. ;)
Jerry F said
Apr 17, 2017
Thanks Serenity for the feedback. Part of the discussion was about how fear was/is reduced thru the experiences of others. ((((hugs))))
a4l said
Apr 17, 2017
Fear. Good rumination topic. I've been grappling with it in my mind..... I suppose it, at a deep level is sometimes a misguided (?) protective reflex, powerlessness combined with the inability to accept the hand of something greater, regardless of the loss incurred. which is also related to faith, itself a part of hope. So then i understand fear to be frantic confusion. Fear of pain for self and for others, fear for the vulnerable. To see something evil or harmful playing with something innocent and vulnerable while your hands are tied. Fear is born of unchallenged knowledge. Sometimes all the knowing in the world can't save the ones you love, to not fear loss is to not know either love or the human condition, me thinks. Its not the destination of the path, though, fears just a traveller on the road.
On a mundane level, fear is protection from hurt, knowing a likely outcome, not being able to shake it off and so giving in to the fear by not trying. Sometimes thats smart. Survival instinct.
I've been thinking of fear and the role it plays in my decision making process. I'm starting not to care about outcomes. The point of not trying far worse than perceived failure. Flies in the face of my acoa conditioning. Fear of judgement. Now I'm like, huh. You'd judge me? Lol.
Thanks for the share. Its very good timing for me.
Jerry F said
Apr 17, 2017
I think that was powerful and related some and not on another level. How does a relationship with a Higher Power fit in that with you? Does it change the pictures? I have always had a sense of not being alone and abided by with a Higher Power...from birth. Thanks for the feedback ((((hugs))))
a4l said
Apr 17, 2017
Yes. HP got highjacked by science first then by codependency but was always always there. After being broken i returned to the place of my ancients. My ancients always make opportunities available to me on the enua we are bonded to and this in turn watered the place where my hp resides in me. I had forgotten/become blinded during the time of fear. Nor did i know my place in the grand scheme of things. Didn't know what i didn't know. But! Didn't have to. Was playing my part without knowing! Relaxed these days. Gods got it. What i can't change isn't mine. And that's all good even when it feels thunderous.
a4l said
Apr 17, 2017
Its these countries and there ways Jerry. Its different. Its a mental prison. Everythings rationalised to death even when its an obvious lie. Does the head in. Way off topic now. I do find it near impossible to be connected to hp here without program due to the written laws of man and science as gods of all that is (flies in the face of my own intrinsic beliefs which are definitely Polynesian, one grand fathers lines trace right back to Raiatea and yes, i was born with those senses) and at home the rampant alcoholism and post colonial confusion is hard, very hard. Ive never been home with program. I know im going to need it. I think I'd need my program on Mars! It's not negotiable.
SerenityRUS said
Apr 17, 2017
LOL .. Jerry .. I think there are things that are hard wired in my brain I just don't have the luxury to do .. fear is one of them.
Self pity, although I can go there .. it's a set time of it. Fear is the same way .. I feel like a bumble bee at times .. you can't do that and my response is ok .. if you say so .. and I do what I want to do. Sometimes I miss .. I always learn something .. I have a great attachment to the God of my understanding that I didn't come this far to be dropped on my butt.
I moved almost 2 years ago to a new state, no family and I had 2 friends however outside of that I was alone with the kids and an X who decided not to pay me the first 5 weeks of the move. I honestly had NO PLAN .. LOL! That was pretty stupid on my part. We did it and I learned some very expensive lessons .. I learned them and understand better a few things.
There were a whole lot more lessons .. the biggest one is HOPE and PUSH .. Hold On Pain Ends as well as Pray Until Something Happens.
I could have moved back to CA with my mom however my therapist said umm no .. we have come to far for that to happen .. LOL.
I guess my point is for me .. fear is a luxury I can't afford. Again I have watched people live life from the side line over every decision they have ever made.
Hugs S :)
andromeda said
Apr 17, 2017
Ohhhhh, recently my bf and I were talking about why I stayed as long as I did in the alcoholic marriage. 20 years is a long time and he still can't wrap his head around it. So, he says, "I know why you stayed. Afraid of failure.....???" Hmmm, I had to think about it. While I am afraid of failing at my job, I also know that another door will open up for me so I'm not really afraid of it, I'm just trusting the process and hoping for the best. While I know it would suck to lose health insurance and to have to interview again, etc, I don't actually FEAR failing. I wouldn't welcome it, but I don't fear it.
But, I thought about it all day and I realized that the reason I stayed was out of fear. It was a fear that I wouldn't be able to protect my son, that I didn't trust the courts to help me, that I wasn't strong enough to fight him in court, etc. It was fear of the unknown and in protecting my son from the fallout of the disease. I wanted my son to be old enough to argue with his dad, to be able to drive away if he needed space, and to be able to comprehend the disease of alcoholism as best as he could. So, yes, I stayed out of fear, but it wasn't fear of failure. It was that fear that my son would be hurt even more by his father's alcoholism. I have no idea if I succeeded, I just did what I felt was right at the time.
I used to have a fear of abandonment......but I honestly don't feel that way anymore. I still struggle with a lot of fears but I feel that I have the tools to battle them better today than I did in the past and that's my 'progress not perfection' from my program.
Jerry F said
Apr 17, 2017
(((A4L))) You interject a spiritual condition which I also life with and in and I came to further understand. My sponsor also interjected it in the discussion which then started to smoothly hum. My sponsor committed to listening intently because he wanted and wants the peace of mind and serenity we have been born with. It was as it should be. I have read of the first nations peoples and their chiefs and holy men and come to understand more. I sat in early Al-Anon Groups and came to understand the nature of our spiritual program and recovery and its/my connection with my ancient Higher Power.
I hope this post/share does not upset anyone or cause doubt, fear and anger. Al-Anon is a world-wide fellowship for which I am deeply grateful. I don't attempt to change it as much as have allowed it to change me. Mahalo Piha. (((((hugs)))))
Jerry F said
Apr 17, 2017
Andromeda it has been inspiring watching your grow. There never was a doubt that as long as you stayed and listened and practiced and shared you would reach this fearless condition. You know what will happened as you continue to practice because you have practiced well. Watching you not quit is part of the inspiration and has reminded me of an Al-Anon saying from our ODAT, I think. "Courage is fear that has said it's prayers". That increased my hope and I prayed more...not pleaded...prayed.
Thank you so much for your participation. I watch your successes. ((((hugs))))
-- Edited by Jerry F on Monday 17th of April 2017 12:14:26 PM
Super interesting topic and discussion this morning at the Easter Feaster and annual celebration that my home group puts on every year. Attending the discussion was myself, my sponsor and a couple other guys and it was started by a sponsee. My sponsee had concerns on several fears and my sponsor was rock solid on his self awareness. I've never come to understand fear so don't know much about it on physical/emotional levels. That didn't stop me from listening and investigating and inventorying the subject again. I have never or rarely been identified as being a fearful individual so therefore take the position of being fearless. My sponsor understands my mind set as similar to his own though he identified his fear as being the feeling of hopelessness. I have not and don't consider myself hopeless especially in light of what I have come to understand as the personality and character of a power greater than myself. My sponsor and I have the similar core culture of being Hawaiian which contains a believe and total acceptance of a creator entity which has created all of us and everything around us including deep understanding of it all and having names for each and every thing and picture representations. Our understandings are metaphorical. When I don't understand what you are telling me I want you to draw me a picture.
My sponsee is from the north...off island and comes with different understandings. Part way thru the discussion he responded or interjected into my offering with "Right there you are wrong" and I responded, "what you just said was disrespectful" which caused him to react in silence. I told him "not because you are less than or bad and because you don't understand where I come from and know". He listened, understood and apologized...He is not Hawaiian and doesn't know our history and culture. My sponsor and I are born and raised within the same culture which for me makes the sponsorship relationship so pono...so appropriate and good. While the discussion was going on I continued to listen with my eyes and my ears while leaning upon my Higher Power/creator father...Akua for understand of the original question. What is my greatest fear?
The answer came from placing myself in my sponsees shoes...position being a foreigner and relying upon foreign experiences which cause him confusion while living here and causing him to respond to natives in appropriately with false impressions. His impressions are not universal one shoe fits all. They put up a wall against understanding which arrive from others unlike himself. He showed me that if I was to have a fear it would be that I was hopeless or could ever be and that came with a knot in my stomach which my sponsor agreed was the fear signal. UGH! My sponsor agreed with me that hopelessness is the one fear he also has and wishes to be more like me more fearless. My relationship with my Higher Power diminishes the presence of fear in my life which is a merciful grace. I am supremely grateful for the relationship.
We do agree that the culture of recovery is often much like the culture we were created into. Mahalo Piha Ohana...Thank you endlessly Family. (((((hugs)))))
-- Edited by Jerry F on Sunday 16th of April 2017 06:44:54 PM
Thanks Serenity for the feedback. Part of the discussion was about how fear was/is reduced thru the experiences of others. ((((hugs))))
I think that was powerful and related some and not on another level. How does a relationship with a Higher Power fit in that with you? Does it change the pictures? I have always had a sense of not being alone and abided by with a Higher Power...from birth. Thanks for the feedback ((((hugs))))
Self pity, although I can go there .. it's a set time of it. Fear is the same way .. I feel like a bumble bee at times .. you can't do that and my response is ok .. if you say so .. and I do what I want to do. Sometimes I miss .. I always learn something .. I have a great attachment to the God of my understanding that I didn't come this far to be dropped on my butt.
I moved almost 2 years ago to a new state, no family and I had 2 friends however outside of that I was alone with the kids and an X who decided not to pay me the first 5 weeks of the move. I honestly had NO PLAN .. LOL! That was pretty stupid on my part. We did it and I learned some very expensive lessons .. I learned them and understand better a few things.
There were a whole lot more lessons .. the biggest one is HOPE and PUSH .. Hold On Pain Ends as well as Pray Until Something Happens.
I could have moved back to CA with my mom however my therapist said umm no .. we have come to far for that to happen .. LOL.
I guess my point is for me .. fear is a luxury I can't afford. Again I have watched people live life from the side line over every decision they have ever made.
Hugs S :)
But, I thought about it all day and I realized that the reason I stayed was out of fear. It was a fear that I wouldn't be able to protect my son, that I didn't trust the courts to help me, that I wasn't strong enough to fight him in court, etc. It was fear of the unknown and in protecting my son from the fallout of the disease. I wanted my son to be old enough to argue with his dad, to be able to drive away if he needed space, and to be able to comprehend the disease of alcoholism as best as he could. So, yes, I stayed out of fear, but it wasn't fear of failure. It was that fear that my son would be hurt even more by his father's alcoholism. I have no idea if I succeeded, I just did what I felt was right at the time.
I used to have a fear of abandonment......but I honestly don't feel that way anymore. I still struggle with a lot of fears but I feel that I have the tools to battle them better today than I did in the past and that's my 'progress not perfection' from my program.
(((A4L))) You interject a spiritual condition which I also life with and in and I came to further understand. My sponsor also interjected it in the discussion which then started to smoothly hum. My sponsor committed to listening intently because he wanted and wants the peace of mind and serenity we have been born with. It was as it should be. I have read of the first nations peoples and their chiefs and holy men and come to understand more. I sat in early Al-Anon Groups and came to understand the nature of our spiritual program and recovery and its/my connection with my ancient Higher Power.
I hope this post/share does not upset anyone or cause doubt, fear and anger. Al-Anon is a world-wide fellowship for which I am deeply grateful. I don't attempt to change it as much as have allowed it to change me. Mahalo Piha. (((((hugs)))))
Andromeda it has been inspiring watching your grow. There never was a doubt that as long as you stayed and listened and practiced and shared you would reach this fearless condition. You know what will happened as you continue to practice because you have practiced well. Watching you not quit is part of the inspiration and has reminded me of an Al-Anon saying from our ODAT, I think. "Courage is fear that has said it's prayers". That increased my hope and I prayed more...not pleaded...prayed.
Thank you so much for your participation. I watch your successes. ((((hugs))))
-- Edited by Jerry F on Monday 17th of April 2017 12:14:26 PM