My husband is a recovering alcoholic (2 years with a few slip ups). To our friends and family, he is doing great and they are all very proud of him. To me, since I have seen the few times he has gone off the wagon, I resent the appearance he gives to the outside world. He is also quite selfish and does whatever he wants. The real issue is that in these 2 years we have never discussed his alcoholism, his time spent in the hospital due to the alcoholism, or what affect his problem had on me for 30+ years. He does not feel that he needs to feel remorse for the past or gratitude to me for what he put me through. After all these years, I resent that fact. Am I being selfish myself? I've been to counseling and the counselor said that I have analyzed the problem pretty accurately and she didn't think she needed to see me any more.
Can anyone give me any insight into this recovery behavior?
hotrod said
Mar 26, 2017
Welcome Susie as you have witnessed alcoholism is a dreadful, progressive, chronic disease over which we are powerless. I am very pleased that your husband has sought recovery in AA and that he is making some progress. Alcoholism is a threefold disease which affects the person spiritually, emotionally and physically. Once the drinking stops that addresses the physical part of the disease, however the emotional and spiritual parts are still not addressed and must be worked on by using the AA principles of spirituality and other tools. I have heard it said that it takes someone six years in AA to get their brains back and another six years learn how to use. I don't think that is an exaggeration.
Al-Anon is the recovery program for family members who have lived with the insanity of this disease and have developed many negative coping skills in order to survive. I urge you to search out Al-Anon face-to-face meetings and attend. The hotline number is usually in the white pages. Here you will find a group of like-minded people who understand as few others can, you will be given support and a new set of tools that will help to rebuild your self-esteem and self-worth as you learn to take care of yourself in a positive manner.
I urge you to keep coming back here as well. You are not alone,
shrnp said
Mar 26, 2017
Hello Susie,
Welcome to Miracles in Progress. Alanon is a good place to find others that have been through the same things you have with an alcoholic in the family. I agree with Betty that we have developed negative coping skills that Alanon can help us change. Things can be very subtle when we are talking about feelings and actions. Your husband might not ever talk to you about the past. That does not mean he does not regret the things he has put you through or that he cares less for you. Sometimes we rely to much on other people to determine our own worth and that can be unhealthy. You are not alone.
My A is an ex-bf, and he has only been sober for a little over two months. When I was with him, I felt like I was competing with his drinking that of course was more important. I have been through the hospital stays and the sickness of the disease. For me, I had to rebuild my life by myself that took almost 2 years. Even though I still talk to my ex-bf, I don't bring up the past anymore because we cannot change it. I have been in counseling before but I think the support from a program like Alanon is something different. Glad you are here, keep coming back!
Stan1 said
Mar 26, 2017
((((Susie)))) glad you found alanon and hope you keep coming back. My RAH has been sober for 17 years and I am very proud of him even though I've never heard mention of the bad years. This disease is extremely hard on everyone involved. His actions and words then were very painful and my rations were not any better. Thankfully FTF meetings and working the program brought sanity and a total change in attitude for both of us.
a4l said
Mar 27, 2017
Keep coming back. With all the focus they steal, this is a place to nourish you.
Rickbrins said
Mar 27, 2017
I fully understand the desire for recognition. You have been through a lot and didn't have to. However, that is the past. In my opinion, If the present is better, then live it. If he is truly in recovery and if he works the steps, eventually you may get the comfort of his understanding, but that will only come if and when he is at that stage of his recovery and no one can say when that will be. Again, if things are good now, try to not let the past cast a shadow over it, enjoy it. Good luck to you, we know how it feels and are here to share and to hold your hand as you grow through all of this.
Rick
milkwood said
Mar 27, 2017
Welcome to MIP Susieb,
This is a great place to learn and to find others who share in our experiences.
My husband is now two and a half years sober. When he was drinking and I was working hard to survive as well as trying to hold our marriage together I remember thinking to myself 'oh boy, he better appreciate me when we get through this mess.' That desire for appreciation is natural I think, it matters in healthy relationships so why not ours? However, in the context of an unhealthy relationship I think that my wanting to feel needed and appreciated is one of the things that kept me hooked. I learnt to cope. I coped quite well really. But might it have been healthier for us both if I hadn't tried to put up with so much rubbish? I was part of the problem by staying for so long I think. Who knew!!
Anyway, before my husband quit alcohol I kind of stopped looking to him for validation and I started to (a) place more value my own opinions about myself, (b) have a minimum benchmark of what I thought I deserved from someone if they wanted to call me their wife (like good manners, a bit of appreciation - just normal stuff really! and (c) consider what I would was able to give to my marriage as well. For example I think that alcoholism carries with it a lot of shame and I don't really want to be the one to be reminding my husband of how ghastly it all was (although I'd be lying if I didn't say that I'd probably love it if he could apologise sometime!). At the end of the day it comes down to a balance and awareness of what I need to be happy and what I'm prepared to negotiate on.
So how have I been building up my own self-esteem? I have learnt to quilt (because I thought that I couldn't sew!!), completed a creative writing course, started painting again and now I'm on a one year Post Grad course at university. Whilst attending Uni I found myself some lovely digs to live in, I've made new friends and I'm learning a lot! A a result I feel good about myself. From time to time my husband says that he is proud of me and whilst that feels nice, it is not nearly as important for me as the pride that I take in myself. I think that my husband is lucky to have me and finally I am getting glimpses of some of his assets as well.
I hope this makes some sense - it has turned out much longer than I expected!! By the way, I learnt all this through Al Anon - not in a prescriptive way, but just by shifting my focus onto me for a while. It felt a little selfish to begin with, but to be honest it is what I needed to do in order to start giving again. It worked for me!!
SerenityRUS said
Mar 27, 2017
Hugs Susieb,
You have received some great ESH and I hope you will do both keep coming back as well as find a face to face meeting in your area .. it's an amazing place to find healing and fellowship.
Something your post really struck me with and I love Milkwood's share because it really resonated with me and what happened with my XAH. I have participated as well as am watching a situation of "you owe me" .. and honestly while an apology would be nice and it is strictly appropriate .. sometimes learning to move on without getting the apology I deserve (and I do deserve one, my children far more than me) is far better than waiting in resentment for the "you owe me" amends.
The attorney I listened to said something of great value .. "I have sat and listened to people say "you owe me". No one owes anyone anything."
Now morally, ethically and so on it would be nice if people did what they should do .. it's not written in anyone's life contract that life is fair. If it is .. boy did I miss that line .. LOL!
Going to alanon as well as private counseling has helped me come to terms with a great deal of things in my life. Life isn't fair is a truthful statement and I can't make someone rewrite the past so the present is where I think it should be and I can't rewrite the past to change my past transgressions either.
So there is hope, peace and knowing that regardless if the alcoholic is still drinking or not .. I can be happy and healthy.
Hugs S :)
Mattie said
Mar 27, 2017
Just another viewpoint. I had hoped that when my husband got sober, he would be able to acknowledge what he had put me through and how destructive his addiction had been. But he kept trying the same kind of denial he'd had when he was drinking. Like "Well, I stopped drinking, it was kind of a problem for me, that's why I did it." No acknowledgement of the many ways it had been painful for me - the lying, stealing, hiding, not showing up for things, belligerence to me and other people, lack of trust, chaos, unreliability. We were seeing a counselor and the counselor got him to agree to write out an acknowledgement because he couldn't bring himself to say it out loud. He took months before he would write it and finally he typed it and it said, "Dear Mattie, Sorry. [Name]" That's all, that was the whole thing. It took him months just to type the word "Sorry." Well, this wasn't what I meant by acknowledgement, but then it was "Why can't you let it go, what's your problem, you are so sensitive, you should get help for your oversensitive brain" - the same stuff he was saying when he was drinking.
Basically I felt in his case it was a dangerous denial of the real state of his drinking. His attitude was "Well, my drinking was a problem because people were on my case and I got a stupid DUI because the stupid state wants to stop people having fun." And his refusal to acknowledge the real harm was part and parcel of him never facing the fact that he caused a huge amount of turmoil. And the turmoil was of his own making, not because other people and the state were just oversensitive. He never owned up to that.
In fact he did start drinking again not long after. And I think his refusal to acknowledge the problems were a symptom of the fact that his recovery was never very strong. If he had acknowledged those problems, I would have been willing to work on putting our relationship back together. As it was, I stayed with him until it was more than clear that his drinking was not going to go away. But I never really relaxed, and in retrospect that was realistic on my part.
My guess if that if they really understand and change, it will be apparent in their actions. If not, that will also be apparent.
Iamhere said
Mar 27, 2017
Welcome to MIP Susie - glad you found us and glad that you shared. As pointed out, alcoholism is a progressive disease that is never cured....it can be treated with abstinence and a recovery program, but never cured. It's also considered a family disease as we develop distorted thinking and unhealthy ways of coping with the disease and the diseased.
In Al-Anon we learn more about the disease and how it affects us. We often learn that we are looking for love and validation from others, and the program helps us learn how to practice keeping the focus on self, self-care and self-needs. We find that this disease is huge on denial - from the drinker and most around them. It's a disease, not a moral dilemma and even if one is in recovery, the behaviors and isms remain for a long while - esp. if there are slips.
It is nice and lovely to be appreciated. I believe all humans want this and it's reasonably normal. For us affected by this disease, many of the lovely bonuses of human relationships became 'needs' instead of 'wants' in a distorted way. What we learn in recovery is to be of service without expectations and to do the next right thing for us - much more healthy than our obsessive and codependent ways often resulting from the disease.
I do today because I can....not for any other reason. I expect others around me to be who they are - imperfect people ... each in their own way. I do my best to be true to me and how/who I want to be, and to accept how others treat me has nothing to do with me, but instead is about them.
I do suggest as others have that you attend a few meetings to get a feel for our side of recovery. You will find others who truly understand and will offer you their ESH (experience, strength & hope). We work to focus on ourselves and not what others are doing. It's a great way to live and the best path of joy and peace I have found - and I tried many!
Keep coming back - there is hope and help in recovery...
TalieOwl said
Mar 27, 2017
Just a thought--do with it what you will. 1. You are not being selfish in recognizing your own needs and feelings. 2. When I start to feel resentful about "the past" I wonder what it is in the present moment that is triggering it. Are their or my behaviors from the past reasserting themselves? Has my relationship partner ignored me, made me feel less than, done something that reminds me of them or someone else in the past? What is my role in the triggering or current response? For instance, just recently I felt like Inwas being ghosted by a friend, which triggers abandonment issues for me. I had a choice--give the situation and her more time to respond to my reaching out; reach out and ask what I'd done wrong; reach out and complain about the lack of communication; insert any of many other alternatives. I considered the possible (and likelihood of) repercussions of each option. Then I set my plan--I would only reach out X more times in a neutral way, suggesting coffee breaks or something normal for us. Then I stopped. Soon after I stopped, she reached out to me. Turned out (and yes, this was among the many scenarios I'd run in my head) that she had been in her own I-need-a-break-from-everyone path. When we got together, I shared my concern that I wondered if she was ghosting me but that I understood where she'd been and her need. She apologized (which I didn't need but which was nice) and said she understood how and why I interpreted silence the way I do.
Anyway, a long way to suggest that you may want to look at what in the present is causing you to feel resentful. Address the present. Hope that the past is eventually addressed as well.
susieb4547 said
Mar 28, 2017
Thank you for your reply and advice. My husband is not in AA. He went to one meeting and since he is not a spiritual person, he said it was not for him. He sees a counselor periodically but I have no idea what they talk about or whether he is honest with the counselor. His counselor was recommended by our family physician and his specialty is working with recovering alcoholics, so I'm hoping he can detect honesty from bs (pardon my language). I have never spoken to his counselor.
susieb4547 said
Mar 28, 2017
Thanks so much for your kind words...they really helped. I'm learning that part of this selfishness and lack of emotion is just part of his personality.
SerenityRUS said
Mar 28, 2017
SusieB,
There is a saying in AA actually that is a drunk horse thief can get sober however you still are left with a horse thief. I am wordier than it actually is .. however you get the point .. a drunk a$$ sober is sometimes still an a$$.
I like to think of my own emotional sobriety. Being caught in the throws of the highs and lows of the drama of living with addiction or being exposed to it I developed characteristics that no longer apply. It is difficult to let those go after years of survival mode, waiting to see who walked through the door, holding my breath on what kind of mood my XAH was going to be in when he walked in the door and wondering so many different things that I felt the need to constantly be prepared for the worst. I don't see it being much different for anyone else addict or non addict. I am generalizing however you get the point.
There are different levels of sobriety with a recovering alcoholic .. there is the physical which is a bear to get through .. the obsession with alcohol or whatever the addiction is. That is only the tip of the iceberg. Emotional sobriety that is where you start moving past what is showing on the iceberg and get to the meat of what is going on. As far as the spiritual .. you know you don't have to have spirituality to attend AA .. there are agnostic/atheist meetings (granted it depends how big the meetings in the area are there are usually 20x the amount of AA than Alanon. Regardless the size of the town too.). It helps to believe in something bigger than you whatever that is true for Alanon as well. So this is not a religious program it is a program of spirituality and people take away different things in terms of what that means to them.
Addiction truly is a 4 part disease of physical, emotional, mental and spiritual and I know when I came to alanon I was bankrupt in all of those areas myself. I hope some of that makes sense. When one part starts to shift so does everything else that's why it's so important to keep coming back .. big hugs and I hope you keep coming back.
My husband is a recovering alcoholic (2 years with a few slip ups). To our friends and family, he is doing great and they are all very proud of him. To me, since I have seen the few times he has gone off the wagon, I resent the appearance he gives to the outside world. He is also quite selfish and does whatever he wants. The real issue is that in these 2 years we have never discussed his alcoholism, his time spent in the hospital due to the alcoholism, or what affect his problem had on me for 30+ years. He does not feel that he needs to feel remorse for the past or gratitude to me for what he put me through. After all these years, I resent that fact. Am I being selfish myself? I've been to counseling and the counselor said that I have analyzed the problem pretty accurately and she didn't think she needed to see me any more.
Can anyone give me any insight into this recovery behavior?
Welcome Susie as you have witnessed alcoholism is a dreadful, progressive, chronic disease over which we are powerless. I am very pleased that your husband has sought recovery in AA and that he is making some progress. Alcoholism is a threefold disease which affects the person spiritually, emotionally and physically. Once the drinking stops that addresses the physical part of the disease, however the emotional and spiritual parts are still not addressed and must be worked on by using the AA principles of spirituality and other tools. I have heard it said that it takes someone six years in AA to get their brains back and another six years learn how to use. I don't think that is an exaggeration.
Al-Anon is the recovery program for family members who have lived with the insanity of this disease and have developed many negative coping skills in order to survive. I urge you to search out Al-Anon face-to-face meetings and attend. The hotline number is usually in the white pages. Here you will find a group of like-minded people who understand as few others can, you will be given support and a new set of tools that will help to rebuild your self-esteem and self-worth as you learn to take care of yourself in a positive manner.
I urge you to keep coming back here as well. You are not alone,
Welcome to Miracles in Progress. Alanon is a good place to find others that have been through the same things you have with an alcoholic in the family. I agree with Betty that we have developed negative coping skills that Alanon can help us change. Things can be very subtle when we are talking about feelings and actions. Your husband might not ever talk to you about the past. That does not mean he does not regret the things he has put you through or that he cares less for you. Sometimes we rely to much on other people to determine our own worth and that can be unhealthy. You are not alone.
My A is an ex-bf, and he has only been sober for a little over two months. When I was with him, I felt like I was competing with his drinking that of course was more important. I have been through the hospital stays and the sickness of the disease. For me, I had to rebuild my life by myself that took almost 2 years. Even though I still talk to my ex-bf, I don't bring up the past anymore because we cannot change it. I have been in counseling before but I think the support from a program like Alanon is something different. Glad you are here, keep coming back!
This is a great place to learn and to find others who share in our experiences.
My husband is now two and a half years sober. When he was drinking and I was working hard to survive as well as trying to hold our marriage together I remember thinking to myself 'oh boy, he better appreciate me when we get through this mess.' That desire for appreciation is natural I think, it matters in healthy relationships so why not ours? However, in the context of an unhealthy relationship I think that my wanting to feel needed and appreciated is one of the things that kept me hooked. I learnt to cope. I coped quite well really. But might it have been healthier for us both if I hadn't tried to put up with so much rubbish? I was part of the problem by staying for so long I think. Who knew!!
Anyway, before my husband quit alcohol I kind of stopped looking to him for validation and I started to (a) place more value my own opinions about myself, (b) have a minimum benchmark of what I thought I deserved from someone if they wanted to call me their wife (like good manners, a bit of appreciation - just normal stuff really! and (c) consider what I would was able to give to my marriage as well. For example I think that alcoholism carries with it a lot of shame and I don't really want to be the one to be reminding my husband of how ghastly it all was (although I'd be lying if I didn't say that I'd probably love it if he could apologise sometime!). At the end of the day it comes down to a balance and awareness of what I need to be happy and what I'm prepared to negotiate on.
So how have I been building up my own self-esteem? I have learnt to quilt (because I thought that I couldn't sew!!), completed a creative writing course, started painting again and now I'm on a one year Post Grad course at university. Whilst attending Uni I found myself some lovely digs to live in, I've made new friends and I'm learning a lot! A a result I feel good about myself. From time to time my husband says that he is proud of me and whilst that feels nice, it is not nearly as important for me as the pride that I take in myself.
I hope this makes some sense - it has turned out much longer than I expected!! By the way, I learnt all this through Al Anon - not in a prescriptive way, but just by shifting my focus onto me for a while. It felt a little selfish to begin with, but to be honest it is what I needed to do in order to start giving again. It worked for me!!
You have received some great ESH and I hope you will do both keep coming back as well as find a face to face meeting in your area .. it's an amazing place to find healing and fellowship.
Something your post really struck me with and I love Milkwood's share because it really resonated with me and what happened with my XAH. I have participated as well as am watching a situation of "you owe me" .. and honestly while an apology would be nice and it is strictly appropriate .. sometimes learning to move on without getting the apology I deserve (and I do deserve one, my children far more than me) is far better than waiting in resentment for the "you owe me" amends.
The attorney I listened to said something of great value .. "I have sat and listened to people say "you owe me". No one owes anyone anything."
Now morally, ethically and so on it would be nice if people did what they should do .. it's not written in anyone's life contract that life is fair. If it is .. boy did I miss that line .. LOL!
Going to alanon as well as private counseling has helped me come to terms with a great deal of things in my life. Life isn't fair is a truthful statement and I can't make someone rewrite the past so the present is where I think it should be and I can't rewrite the past to change my past transgressions either.
So there is hope, peace and knowing that regardless if the alcoholic is still drinking or not .. I can be happy and healthy.
Hugs S :)
Just another viewpoint. I had hoped that when my husband got sober, he would be able to acknowledge what he had put me through and how destructive his addiction had been. But he kept trying the same kind of denial he'd had when he was drinking. Like "Well, I stopped drinking, it was kind of a problem for me, that's why I did it." No acknowledgement of the many ways it had been painful for me - the lying, stealing, hiding, not showing up for things, belligerence to me and other people, lack of trust, chaos, unreliability. We were seeing a counselor and the counselor got him to agree to write out an acknowledgement because he couldn't bring himself to say it out loud. He took months before he would write it and finally he typed it and it said, "Dear Mattie, Sorry. [Name]" That's all, that was the whole thing. It took him months just to type the word "Sorry." Well, this wasn't what I meant by acknowledgement, but then it was "Why can't you let it go, what's your problem, you are so sensitive, you should get help for your oversensitive brain" - the same stuff he was saying when he was drinking.
Basically I felt in his case it was a dangerous denial of the real state of his drinking. His attitude was "Well, my drinking was a problem because people were on my case and I got a stupid DUI because the stupid state wants to stop people having fun." And his refusal to acknowledge the real harm was part and parcel of him never facing the fact that he caused a huge amount of turmoil. And the turmoil was of his own making, not because other people and the state were just oversensitive. He never owned up to that.
In fact he did start drinking again not long after. And I think his refusal to acknowledge the problems were a symptom of the fact that his recovery was never very strong. If he had acknowledged those problems, I would have been willing to work on putting our relationship back together. As it was, I stayed with him until it was more than clear that his drinking was not going to go away. But I never really relaxed, and in retrospect that was realistic on my part.
My guess if that if they really understand and change, it will be apparent in their actions. If not, that will also be apparent.
In Al-Anon we learn more about the disease and how it affects us. We often learn that we are looking for love and validation from others, and the program helps us learn how to practice keeping the focus on self, self-care and self-needs. We find that this disease is huge on denial - from the drinker and most around them. It's a disease, not a moral dilemma and even if one is in recovery, the behaviors and isms remain for a long while - esp. if there are slips.
It is nice and lovely to be appreciated. I believe all humans want this and it's reasonably normal. For us affected by this disease, many of the lovely bonuses of human relationships became 'needs' instead of 'wants' in a distorted way. What we learn in recovery is to be of service without expectations and to do the next right thing for us - much more healthy than our obsessive and codependent ways often resulting from the disease.
I do today because I can....not for any other reason. I expect others around me to be who they are - imperfect people ... each in their own way. I do my best to be true to me and how/who I want to be, and to accept how others treat me has nothing to do with me, but instead is about them.
I do suggest as others have that you attend a few meetings to get a feel for our side of recovery. You will find others who truly understand and will offer you their ESH (experience, strength & hope). We work to focus on ourselves and not what others are doing. It's a great way to live and the best path of joy and peace I have found - and I tried many!
Keep coming back - there is hope and help in recovery...
Thank you for your reply and advice. My husband is not in AA. He went to one meeting and since he is not a spiritual person, he said it was not for him. He sees a counselor periodically but I have no idea what they talk about or whether he is honest with the counselor. His counselor was recommended by our family physician and his specialty is working with recovering alcoholics, so I'm hoping he can detect honesty from bs (pardon my language). I have never spoken to his counselor.
Thanks so much for your kind words...they really helped. I'm learning that part of this selfishness and lack of emotion is just part of his personality.
There is a saying in AA actually that is a drunk horse thief can get sober however you still are left with a horse thief. I am wordier than it actually is .. however you get the point .. a drunk a$$ sober is sometimes still an a$$.
I like to think of my own emotional sobriety. Being caught in the throws of the highs and lows of the drama of living with addiction or being exposed to it I developed characteristics that no longer apply. It is difficult to let those go after years of survival mode, waiting to see who walked through the door, holding my breath on what kind of mood my XAH was going to be in when he walked in the door and wondering so many different things that I felt the need to constantly be prepared for the worst. I don't see it being much different for anyone else addict or non addict. I am generalizing however you get the point.
There are different levels of sobriety with a recovering alcoholic .. there is the physical which is a bear to get through .. the obsession with alcohol or whatever the addiction is. That is only the tip of the iceberg. Emotional sobriety that is where you start moving past what is showing on the iceberg and get to the meat of what is going on. As far as the spiritual .. you know you don't have to have spirituality to attend AA .. there are agnostic/atheist meetings (granted it depends how big the meetings in the area are there are usually 20x the amount of AA than Alanon. Regardless the size of the town too.). It helps to believe in something bigger than you whatever that is true for Alanon as well. So this is not a religious program it is a program of spirituality and people take away different things in terms of what that means to them.
Addiction truly is a 4 part disease of physical, emotional, mental and spiritual and I know when I came to alanon I was bankrupt in all of those areas myself. I hope some of that makes sense. When one part starts to shift so does everything else that's why it's so important to keep coming back .. big hugs and I hope you keep coming back.