It isnt discussed much as an option especially to new people and I understand its because new people are deep in the disease and often haven't got the ration and clarity to make decisions that are right for them based on all the facts or reality. A lot of people get recovery and use the tools to stay with their partners, sober or not. I dont believe they are wrong or right. They made an informed decision and there will be good times and bad times for them. I chose to leave, not right or wrong, I use my tools for dealing with alcoholism that is still within my family through my children but I don't live with my ex ah anymore. I have good times and bad times too. So, the decision to stay or leave is bound to have a mixture of good and bad consequences.
I do believe staying comes with its own set of benefits and challenges even after recovery but that is something I haven't experienced. Our relationship ended completely after a short time in Alanon, my decision and I know it was right for me. I believe it brought many benefits to me. I got to concentrate on my recovery without it being undermined by a drinker, ie no guilt or questions or mind games or any of the tactics that are common. Living with an active drinker was like living with the enemy for me, it became warfare and I guarded so much of myself, especially my vulnerable side or my weaknesses because he would use what he knows about me to his benefit to get what he wants and sometimes that was me feeling guilty and submissive. I got to concentrate on me because I wasn't distracted by him. I got to let my guard down and really see who I am good and bad.
I imagine that those who stay get to really sharpen their tools daily by choosing to stay which is a benefit, living with an active drinker must ramp up the tools to the max. I have a lot of respect for those who stay and respect for those like me who dont. Both are brave decisions.
SerenityRUS said
Mar 23, 2017
Excellent point EC .. I get the benefits of no major decisions for the first 6 months because how the program changes people from the first meeting to down the road.
I left as well and in my F2F meetings I was the odd man out that is one benefits of being in a small town and it was interesting being the minority in that group. I don't believe the first answer is to leave unless there is major abuse happening that needs to be addressed immediately.
My XAH was very clear .. he didn't want me and if I really got honest .. I didn't want him either. It was a dysfunctional relationship from the get go. So staying was not an option unless it was the for the benefit (and there is none) of watching him, the kids and myself get completely destroyed to the point of 911 moments and no one needed that ..
Leaving vs Staying there is no one answer fits all and it's difficult to make either decision they each come with their own consequences good/bad. Staying was not an option for me .. I read about others staying and they seem to be happy regardless if the A is drinking or not .. and most importantly be healthy in choosing to stay.
Hugs S :)
starcatcher2 said
Mar 23, 2017
Hello El-Cee,
I agree, BOTH are very brave decisions, and equally difficult. Speaking for me, I had to get to a certain point to leave. I know it's the best decision, not the easiest. Staying or leaving take a beating on your self-esteem. I realized that I was an huge enabler in his life. I was doing nothing to help his sobriety. He would tell everyone he was 18 months sober.....when he wasn't even 18 days sober. It was sad. He couldn't even be honest with himself. He would just shrug his shoulders when I asked him about it. I tried to stick it out. Ultimately I realized that his chatting with other women, alcohol and emotional baggage that he had would never be addressed or change. So for my own sanity I had to leave.
My heart goes out to anyone in this situation.
Jerry F said
Mar 23, 2017
Mahalo Ladies...right on post and shares. I learned from both back when I was going thru the early transition stages of from active addictions to peace of mind and serenity. I have had the benefit of so many learned and experienced old timers and sponsors, my own practice with experiences the program and my Higher Power's leadership. Listen, Learn, Practice has been one of the steadfast mantras within my spirit for which I am grateful. Thanks again. (((((hugs)))))
Curlyblu said
Mar 23, 2017
Great post. I do think both take a lot courage and strength to do. I have left an abusive relationship before. As much as it scared the pants off me. I made it out just fine....for the most part.
It's easy for people to look at others relationships and say "what we you thinking" "why did you stay" "why did you leave"....being truly on the inside of that situation holds the answer to which we looking in will never know. I know I have done it with friends that have left and friends that won't. All I can do is offer my support in case.
I'm not a true friend to pull the I told you so card on either situation. What it has given me, is the understanding relationships are so complex (not just with As) and honearly don't know what is going on behind close doors. Only what we have been told. I know I hid a lot....still do.
To both I too admire the strength it has taken in each situation. I also shows me that no matter what I decide is right for me...to stay or go....there have been successes in both.
_bunny_ said
Mar 23, 2017
Excellent post el-cee, thank you for your ESH. I choice to stay with my AH but left the disease. The disease was the equivalent of the other woman in our marriage. Before the program I obsessed over the disease, what did it have that I didn't? My attempts at controlling it drove me insane. Then I found recovery and slowly began a relationship with myself. It got manageable, not perfect, but each day more and more manageable because I set boundaries. Today I have hobbies, I like to cook, I like the outdoors, I spend my days with my babies and my Al-Anon family. I don't think about the disease anymore, I'm now capable of separating it from my sometimes toxic, but lovely AH. He's still active, attends AA meetings regularly, we have constructive disagreements, we co-parent well, enjoy each other's company, we have alone time and date nights and I am hopeful that someday he will find serenity like I have.
Iamhere said
Mar 23, 2017
Lovely topic and great shares! I really relate to what you've written Carrie - that's been my experience as well....I've been able to separate the disease from the person I love and hope/pray for him to find his own happiness, joy and freedom from the disease. When life got 'real' here and the disease was all around me, I stumbled into Al-Anon. Until that point, I was fighting the good fight - trying to stay 1 step ahead of the disease.
As a double-winner, I really thought I had a handle on things. I was so wrong....not.even.funny! Yet, I did what was suggested - went to Al-Anon, got some literature, worked the steps, and kept my focus as best I could on me....and - the miracle happened.
Life is far from perfect and that's OK....I've learned tons in recovery about me, how I tick, how I process, as well as how my own judgments and attitudes were unhealthy. I truly believe now I could retain my serenity/joy in the midst of a tornado - not because I am good but because the program works when we work it.
I agree that staying/leaving both take a ton of courage. Life isn't easy and it's certainly more complicated by this dreaded disease. However, I have truly learned to enjoy the journey one day at a time! Thanks to all for being here...(((hugs)))
Enigmatic said
Mar 23, 2017
Good points, all...the complexity and wide range of possible environments once again points to the wisdom of the program recommendation against giving advice to others of whether to stay or go.
There are literally an infinite number of possible scenarios as dual dimensions (severity/frequency of behavior) are possible for our qualifier, and similar dimensions (program-esque strength and tools, personality and background) for ourselves.
If we find something that works for us it is reason for celebration, gratitude and serenity. As our relationship dimensions will not match another's, however, our solution could be ineffective, or perhaps even disastrous.
So grateful for the guidance and wisdom of the program
It isnt discussed much as an option especially to new people and I understand its because new people are deep in the disease and often haven't got the ration and clarity to make decisions that are right for them based on all the facts or reality. A lot of people get recovery and use the tools to stay with their partners, sober or not. I dont believe they are wrong or right. They made an informed decision and there will be good times and bad times for them. I chose to leave, not right or wrong, I use my tools for dealing with alcoholism that is still within my family through my children but I don't live with my ex ah anymore. I have good times and bad times too. So, the decision to stay or leave is bound to have a mixture of good and bad consequences.
I do believe staying comes with its own set of benefits and challenges even after recovery but that is something I haven't experienced. Our relationship ended completely after a short time in Alanon, my decision and I know it was right for me. I believe it brought many benefits to me. I got to concentrate on my recovery without it being undermined by a drinker, ie no guilt or questions or mind games or any of the tactics that are common. Living with an active drinker was like living with the enemy for me, it became warfare and I guarded so much of myself, especially my vulnerable side or my weaknesses because he would use what he knows about me to his benefit to get what he wants and sometimes that was me feeling guilty and submissive. I got to concentrate on me because I wasn't distracted by him. I got to let my guard down and really see who I am good and bad.
I imagine that those who stay get to really sharpen their tools daily by choosing to stay which is a benefit, living with an active drinker must ramp up the tools to the max. I have a lot of respect for those who stay and respect for those like me who dont. Both are brave decisions.
I left as well and in my F2F meetings I was the odd man out that is one benefits of being in a small town and it was interesting being the minority in that group. I don't believe the first answer is to leave unless there is major abuse happening that needs to be addressed immediately.
My XAH was very clear .. he didn't want me and if I really got honest .. I didn't want him either. It was a dysfunctional relationship from the get go. So staying was not an option unless it was the for the benefit (and there is none) of watching him, the kids and myself get completely destroyed to the point of 911 moments and no one needed that ..
Leaving vs Staying there is no one answer fits all and it's difficult to make either decision they each come with their own consequences good/bad. Staying was not an option for me .. I read about others staying and they seem to be happy regardless if the A is drinking or not .. and most importantly be healthy in choosing to stay.
Hugs S :)
Hello El-Cee,
I agree, BOTH are very brave decisions, and equally difficult. Speaking for me, I had to get to a certain point to leave. I know it's the best decision, not the easiest. Staying or leaving take a beating on your self-esteem. I realized that I was an huge enabler in his life. I was doing nothing to help his sobriety. He would tell everyone he was 18 months sober.....when he wasn't even 18 days sober. It was sad. He couldn't even be honest with himself. He would just shrug his shoulders when I asked him about it. I tried to stick it out. Ultimately I realized that his chatting with other women, alcohol and emotional baggage that he had would never be addressed or change. So for my own sanity I had to leave.
My heart goes out to anyone in this situation.
Mahalo Ladies...right on post and shares. I learned from both back when I was going thru the early transition stages of from active addictions to peace of mind and serenity. I have had the benefit of so many learned and experienced old timers and sponsors, my own practice with experiences the program and my Higher Power's leadership. Listen, Learn, Practice has been one of the steadfast mantras within my spirit for which I am grateful. Thanks again. (((((hugs)))))
As a double-winner, I really thought I had a handle on things. I was so wrong....not.even.funny! Yet, I did what was suggested - went to Al-Anon, got some literature, worked the steps, and kept my focus as best I could on me....and - the miracle happened.
Life is far from perfect and that's OK....I've learned tons in recovery about me, how I tick, how I process, as well as how my own judgments and attitudes were unhealthy. I truly believe now I could retain my serenity/joy in the midst of a tornado - not because I am good but because the program works when we work it.
I agree that staying/leaving both take a ton of courage. Life isn't easy and it's certainly more complicated by this dreaded disease. However, I have truly learned to enjoy the journey one day at a time! Thanks to all for being here...(((hugs)))
There are literally an infinite number of possible scenarios as dual dimensions (severity/frequency of behavior) are possible for our qualifier, and similar dimensions (program-esque strength and tools, personality and background) for ourselves.
If we find something that works for us it is reason for celebration, gratitude and serenity. As our relationship dimensions will not match another's, however, our solution could be ineffective, or perhaps even disastrous.
So grateful for the guidance and wisdom of the program