Hi all. So the alcoholic in my life is sober about a week after a 5 week vodka binge. As always, it took him to death's door before he was able to stop, but that's not what this post is about, I have got that I am powerless over the drinking. I just want to share what's been going on for me since he sobered up. This is a four year, not living together relationship, but we live very near each other. When the drinking is in progress I don't see an awful lot of him. I call down for maybe an hour most days, maybe bring down a dinner, have a cup of tea, try not to to get into any debates etc. It used to hurt me that I didn't have a 'partner' during these times, someone I could spend quality time with, make plans with etc, but during this last binge, which came after a year of dry, untreated alcoholism, I really enjoyed the space over the last few weeks and am actually finding it really difficult to get back into relationship/girlfriend mode again. I too am in recovery for my own addiction, clean 17 years. I go to alanon meetings at least once a week. I found the last year of untreated alcoholism really difficult. I didn't, for a long time, get why my idea of the perfect relationship I thought we were going to have if he sobered up wasn't working out! I went from feeling smothered because he seemed to want to be around me all the time so I was losing myself, my relationships with others were being neglected, as were my interests, time to myself, my relationship with my Higher Power, etc, to feeling abandoned when he'd go into a mood and sulk for weeks on end unless I apologised profusely even though I didn't think I had done anything terribbly wrong, maybe I challenged him on something, or tried to take some space or whatever. I know this man triggers all kinds of unresolved childhood stuff in me, and I am working on that. Anyway the intense confusion and despair these extreme all or nothing circumstances were causing for me last year took me to a place where I seriously considered drinking again to find relief from the pain. I think I was letting him be such a big part of my life because he seemed to demand that, that I would feel like I had nothing left when he took himself off, this in spite of my having a fabulous daughter still at home and 3 grown sons. I know this is extreme codependency. Thank God I didn't drink and I really stepped up my self care and alanon work. I started to create more distance in the relationship and there wasn't too much fuss because he was deep into workaholism and, I know now, getting ready to drink again. So over the last 5 or 6 months, I have started to get a life back. I am enjoying time with myself, children and friends. I am writing, making art, knitting, all kinds of things I enjoy. Now he's sober and wants to get back in and I am feeling a lot of fear and panic. I do want him in my life, I think, I don't want him taking over. I don't want to lose the bit of serenity and independence I feel like I almost had to die for. I don't know if there is any way to have a healthy relationship where we are both whole, individual people, with this man. I find it so hard to say no to him when he is asking for time because I don't want to hurt him and I don't want to experience the angry reaction. At the same time I know I can't go back to how things were, I am not prepared to lose myself again. I would rather lose him, and up until 6 months ago it was the fear of that which was making me go along with things, that and my tendency to people-please. It always feels that however much I give him, it is never enough. I do realise the disease is insatiable, and I think, when he's not drinking, he wants me to be the solution to the emptiness, and I have to be honest, I have tried to make him the solution to my emptiness too Oh it's such a difficult disease. I would appreciate any feedback on any of this. Thanks everybody, it's so good looking at the threads here between meetings.
__________________
Sarah
el-cee said
Mar 17, 2017
I can totally relate. I got to this point too where I just knew I wasnt prepared to live with the insanity of the disease in my life full time anymore. It was just a shift in my own thinking coming from some space to actually glimpse at reality and see the damage the disease had done and was doing. It took me quite a while to actually face this change in me. I had fear too that he would drink himself to death (of course now I know I have always been powerless) and I thought I would hurt him (actually his hurt or lack of is the same as his drinking, not my responsibility and I dont have the power) I then had to get honest with myself first, I was done, I didnt want it or him, i valued my freedom and serenity and happiness over him and his life (and rightly so) and then I got honest with him and told him I was not going to be in a relationship with him now or in the future. He didnt take it too good of course he tried the usual manipualtion tactics, the I need you, then the anger, how dare you make this decision without giving me a chance to shape up !!!! Yeah right. By this time I could hear the disease and found it easy to detach from all of it. I had made my mind up, I had no guilt, no need for it. I was doing what was right for me and leaving him to do what was right for him. I was being honest, I was letting him go. I was letting me go free too. He hit the bottle for a while after that, I let him and did not take any responsibility for it and after a while he was on his own completely. A gift, a rock bottom and hes been sober for about 4 years in AA made a good life for himself now.
The denial means we believe all sorts of false lies. He needs me - no, more likely he needs us to get out fast and let go fast. He will be hurt - no, look at the hurt its already there and always has been and has zero to do with us being there or not. He will die without us, no, again hes more likely to continue a miserable existence of drinking with us. If left to face their own misery then theres a chance.
hotrod said
Mar 17, 2017
Hi Sorcha I have been told that the" deep hole within " of which you speak is a" God hole" and only HP can fill it.
I have found that to be true so by increasing my meetings, sponsoring new people, prayer and meditation I have discovered that the emptiness has lifted and I feel whole..
Keep coming back.
Rickbrins said
Mar 17, 2017
Sorcha,
You seem to be taking the pause needed to think this through and I'm glad you shared with us here.
It scares me that this situation threatened your sobriety. I'm glad you dug out the tools to prevent that.
I understand fully, the desire to feel needed and loved is very strong. I like to think that I have learned that the desire isn't enough of a reason to keep a relationship, there has to be more. I have tried to force unhealthy relationships before and ultimately ended up hurt and broken. Others tried to warn me, but until I was ready to see it, I was blind.
Only you can decide what is best for you. My hope for you is that you are able to step far away from the desire to have a great relationship, so that you can look at the value of the relationship itself. Once you do that maybe you will see clearly one way or the other.
If you decide it is good, then I wish you all the best. If you decide it is not good, then remember, there are other relationships waiting for you. Either way, I wish the absolute best for you!
Thank you for sharing.
Rick
SerenityRUS said
Mar 17, 2017
Hugs and welcome,
My two cents on the issue of having interdependence in a relationship .. you have to have that in a healthy relationship I think it's way to easy to get caught up in the throws of the dependency issue. I find that the healthier I am in my current relationship my BF responds in kind .. however that goes with people are going to respond or not to the changes I make .. I find with the dysfunction in my life those who are stuck where they are they tend to stay where they are at and the God of my understanding moves them out. I have come to a firm belief that there are people who are meant to be in our lives for a lifetime and others who are more seasonal creatures to learn specific lessons and move on. The biggest mistake I have made is forcing someone who was suppose to be a season be in the lifetime category and that's something I am currently working on. Relationships are like plants in a lot of ways .. they ebb and flow some really are just annuals I am placing a bigger expectation on.
I don't think relationships are really that hard .. I think that people complicate them .. projection, needs, expectations, whatever baggage comes with them and then the idea that one person fills those needs in us that are missing. Everyone just wants to love and be loved I think more people just want unconditional acceptance that they are ok. There are people because of whatever dysfunction .. they can't experience that because they don't know how to give it ..
I am blaming the lack of coffee or over stimulation today from a cup of crack coffee .. these are just a few random thoughts I had while reading your post.
Hugs S :)
Iamhere said
Mar 17, 2017
Hey Sorcha - such a powerful, powerful share. I am a 'double-winner' - in AA & Al-Anon and understand that painful threat to your sobriety. I applaud your courage to 'see' where you are and put yourself first. What I've learned and work to practice is loving my qualifier without loosing myself. I have had to learn the hard way that there is no shame in loving an alcoholic. Where the shame for me came from was allowing them so much power in my life, heart, mind and soul that I lost myself....over and over and over again.
I came to Al-Anon with a broken picker. I gravitated to the sickest person in the room - over and over and over again. Not just with intimate relationships but also with friendships. I believe this was so because I was sick on the inside, misery loves company and aligning with broken people allowed me to be broken too and not have to look/fix/heal me.
Recovery gave me tools to heal me. Recovery gives me tools to help me deal with all scenarios. I've worked to be a better person and believe my picker is better. I now try hard to treat everyone with kindness and respect yet apply a bit more GI (God-Input) on who I allow to get close and trust.
I'd much rather have a small group of lovely friends than hundreds of needy friends. Choosing quality over quantity has given me tons of joy and growth. When I have doubt, I don't - doesn't matter what it is any more - I love me enough today to put my safety, sanity, serenity and sobriety above all else - and that keeps me as close to center as I can get.
Be gentle with you - there should never be pressure to 'feel' a certain way in a certain time-frame. Those who truly love us give us space, time, etc. - whatever we need to make healthy choices ... especially about life, love and future. Keep doing what you're doing and lean into your HP - the answers will come when they are supposed to! Keep coming back....hope and help always win in recovery!
Sorcha said
Mar 17, 2017
Thanks so much for the replies everyone, feedback helps, and I think just getting out what I am thinking here helps too. I have made the mistake many times of trying to explain to the alcoholic what I am feeling or why I need to have boundaries but that usually ends up in a row with me feeling totally misunderstood! So what I am doing at the moment is trying to decide for myself what I want to do each day, how I want to spend my time, and how much or little of it I can spend with him. He seems to be getting a little more understanding and respectful of the fact that I do have other things and people in my life. But the most important thing is that I remember and don't get all caught up in the happy ever after, knight in shining armour fantasy again. That's working ok so far. Iamhere, I'm just wondering, is your partner still drinking or are they in recovery?
Iamhere said
Mar 17, 2017
Sarah - I met and married my AH in recovery. He relapsed between the birth of our sons (they are 24 and 25- turning 26 in 9 days). He never returned to recovery. He practiced controlled drinking and hid it well for a while. When I found out, it was crushing. His drinking has now been slowed way, way down as he's got some serious heart disease issues - 2 heart attacks, 3 stents & a triple by-pass surgery.
Both are sons have issues, been in/out treatment/jail....both are active at the moment too. My bio has much of my story - you can click thru to see it!
(((Hugs)))
MeTwo2 said
Mar 18, 2017
this whole thread is so powerful I may have to break and keep reading . another unfolding deeper layer ... my neglect to myself goes 'way back .. just recognizing how much energy and time went into concentrating So hard on 'them .. draining .. the line you shared of I was letting him be such a 'big part of my life .. no wonder I 'felt' so small .. the bigger I made my ex addict partner and before him others .. the smaller I became .. so overly responsible I became for him .. others too .. I obsessed hard to find those right answers for control and when I couldn't fix anything .. then came the 'guilt .. (false guilt) .. I see how he was literally passing things onto my lap because I was willing to carry the 'load .. (his) he they .. were the 'most important in the group because I had 'given them (all of them) authority 'over 'me .. 'over my wants 'over my other relationships 'over my feelings etc ... what was there to be left of me ? I gave it all .. so I struggled 'especially with the relationship with myself .. and I did this over and over again
and reading the reply by el-cee about preparing ? to live with the disease of insanity full time ? .. hmm never realized I was doing exactly 'that .. I think I'd rather prepare through the steps for the better of what's to come .. thanks for sharing this .. I realized tonight .. no matter what we are going through .. it's always ok .. there are 'always others going through the same 'somewhere in recovery .. or others who have .. definitely relate to your situation .. having lived with an addict in the past for many years .. I will say I've definitely 'learned and still am learning through the process ..
read something tonight In a book about it being hard to say no .. it went on to say I didn't like to talk about or feel my 'feelings so I just never said no .. that hit home for 'me .. i am so grateful we have a program we can finally get honest in ..
-- Edited by MeTwo2 on Saturday 18th of March 2017 12:12:13 AM
Rickbrins said
Mar 18, 2017
Great stuff here, I want to refer back to this entire thread often, so much to think about and so many great answers. I never realized just how much of myself I gave up in this process until recently when I looked back. What I expected to see was this beautiful and powerful river, instead I saw the Grand Canyon. My confidence, my strength, my values, my serenity, all eroded like the ground around the Colorado River leaving a giant gorge in what used to be my life.
I am filling it in, sometimes I feel like I am filling that Canyon, alone, one shovel full at a time (the past couple of days) and other times I see all the members of Al-anon and this board driving loaded dump trucks to help me.
You all said so much so well, but extra credit this time to MeTwo2, Thank you, I like the way you worded most of that. It really resonated with me.
Hi all. So the alcoholic in my life is sober about a week after a 5 week vodka binge. As always, it took him to death's door before he was able to stop, but that's not what this post is about, I have got that I am powerless over the drinking. I just want to share what's been going on for me since he sobered up. This is a four year, not living together relationship, but we live very near each other. When the drinking is in progress I don't see an awful lot of him. I call down for maybe an hour most days, maybe bring down a dinner, have a cup of tea, try not to to get into any debates etc. It used to hurt me that I didn't have a 'partner' during these times, someone I could spend quality time with, make plans with etc, but during this last binge, which came after a year of dry, untreated alcoholism, I really enjoyed the space over the last few weeks and am actually finding it really difficult to get back into relationship/girlfriend mode again. I too am in recovery for my own addiction, clean 17 years. I go to alanon meetings at least once a week. I found the last year of untreated alcoholism really difficult. I didn't, for a long time, get why my idea of the perfect relationship I thought we were going to have if he sobered up wasn't working out! I went from feeling smothered because he seemed to want to be around me all the time so I was losing myself, my relationships with others were being neglected, as were my interests, time to myself, my relationship with my Higher Power, etc, to feeling abandoned when he'd go into a mood and sulk for weeks on end unless I apologised profusely even though I didn't think I had done anything terribbly wrong, maybe I challenged him on something, or tried to take some space or whatever. I know this man triggers all kinds of unresolved childhood stuff in me, and I am working on that. Anyway the intense confusion and despair these extreme all or nothing circumstances were causing for me last year took me to a place where I seriously considered drinking again to find relief from the pain. I think I was letting him be such a big part of my life because he seemed to demand that, that I would feel like I had nothing left when he took himself off, this in spite of my having a fabulous daughter still at home and 3 grown sons. I know this is extreme codependency. Thank God I didn't drink and I really stepped up my self care and alanon work. I started to create more distance in the relationship and there wasn't too much fuss because he was deep into workaholism and, I know now, getting ready to drink again. So over the last 5 or 6 months, I have started to get a life back. I am enjoying time with myself, children and friends. I am writing, making art, knitting, all kinds of things I enjoy. Now he's sober and wants to get back in and I am feeling a lot of fear and panic. I do want him in my life, I think, I don't want him taking over. I don't want to lose the bit of serenity and independence I feel like I almost had to die for. I don't know if there is any way to have a healthy relationship where we are both whole, individual people, with this man. I find it so hard to say no to him when he is asking for time because I don't want to hurt him and I don't want to experience the angry reaction. At the same time I know I can't go back to how things were, I am not prepared to lose myself again. I would rather lose him, and up until 6 months ago it was the fear of that which was making me go along with things, that and my tendency to people-please. It always feels that however much I give him, it is never enough. I do realise the disease is insatiable, and I think, when he's not drinking, he wants me to be the solution to the emptiness, and I have to be honest, I have tried to make him the solution to my emptiness too Oh it's such a difficult disease. I would appreciate any feedback on any of this. Thanks everybody, it's so good looking at the threads here between meetings.
__________________
The denial means we believe all sorts of false lies. He needs me - no, more likely he needs us to get out fast and let go fast. He will be hurt - no, look at the hurt its already there and always has been and has zero to do with us being there or not. He will die without us, no, again hes more likely to continue a miserable existence of drinking with us. If left to face their own misery then theres a chance.
Hi Sorcha I have been told that the" deep hole within " of which you speak is a" God hole" and only HP can fill it.
I have found that to be true so by increasing my meetings, sponsoring new people, prayer and meditation I have discovered that the emptiness has lifted and I feel whole..
Keep coming back.
My two cents on the issue of having interdependence in a relationship .. you have to have that in a healthy relationship I think it's way to easy to get caught up in the throws of the dependency issue. I find that the healthier I am in my current relationship my BF responds in kind .. however that goes with people are going to respond or not to the changes I make .. I find with the dysfunction in my life those who are stuck where they are they tend to stay where they are at and the God of my understanding moves them out. I have come to a firm belief that there are people who are meant to be in our lives for a lifetime and others who are more seasonal creatures to learn specific lessons and move on. The biggest mistake I have made is forcing someone who was suppose to be a season be in the lifetime category and that's something I am currently working on. Relationships are like plants in a lot of ways .. they ebb and flow some really are just annuals I am placing a bigger expectation on.
I don't think relationships are really that hard .. I think that people complicate them .. projection, needs, expectations, whatever baggage comes with them and then the idea that one person fills those needs in us that are missing. Everyone just wants to love and be loved I think more people just want unconditional acceptance that they are ok. There are people because of whatever dysfunction .. they can't experience that because they don't know how to give it ..
I am blaming the lack of coffee or over stimulation today from a cup of crack coffee .. these are just a few random thoughts I had while reading your post.
Hugs S :)
I came to Al-Anon with a broken picker. I gravitated to the sickest person in the room - over and over and over again. Not just with intimate relationships but also with friendships. I believe this was so because I was sick on the inside, misery loves company and aligning with broken people allowed me to be broken too and not have to look/fix/heal me.
Recovery gave me tools to heal me. Recovery gives me tools to help me deal with all scenarios. I've worked to be a better person and believe my picker is better. I now try hard to treat everyone with kindness and respect yet apply a bit more GI (God-Input) on who I allow to get close and trust.
I'd much rather have a small group of lovely friends than hundreds of needy friends. Choosing quality over quantity has given me tons of joy and growth. When I have doubt, I don't - doesn't matter what it is any more - I love me enough today to put my safety, sanity, serenity and sobriety above all else - and that keeps me as close to center as I can get.
Be gentle with you - there should never be pressure to 'feel' a certain way in a certain time-frame. Those who truly love us give us space, time, etc. - whatever we need to make healthy choices ... especially about life, love and future. Keep doing what you're doing and lean into your HP - the answers will come when they are supposed to! Keep coming back....hope and help always win in recovery!
Both are sons have issues, been in/out treatment/jail....both are active at the moment too. My bio has much of my story - you can click thru to see it!
(((Hugs)))
this whole thread is so powerful I may have to break and keep reading . another unfolding deeper layer ... my neglect to myself goes 'way back .. just recognizing how much energy and time went into concentrating So hard on 'them .. draining .. the line you shared of I was letting him be such a 'big part of my life .. no wonder I 'felt' so small .. the bigger I made my ex addict partner and before him others .. the smaller I became .. so overly responsible I became for him .. others too .. I obsessed hard to find those right answers for control and when I couldn't fix anything .. then came the 'guilt .. (false guilt) .. I see how he was literally passing things onto my lap because I was willing to carry the 'load .. (his) he they .. were the 'most important in the group because I had 'given them (all of them) authority 'over 'me .. 'over my wants 'over my other relationships 'over my feelings etc ... what was there to be left of me ? I gave it all .. so I struggled 'especially with the relationship with myself .. and I did this over and over again
and reading the reply by el-cee about preparing ? to live with the disease of insanity full time ? .. hmm never realized I was doing exactly 'that .. I think I'd rather prepare through the steps for the better of what's to come .. thanks for sharing this .. I realized tonight .. no matter what we are going through .. it's always ok .. there are 'always others going through the same 'somewhere in recovery .. or others who have .. definitely relate to your situation .. having lived with an addict in the past for many years .. I will say I've definitely 'learned and still am learning through the process ..
read something tonight In a book about it being hard to say no .. it went on to say I didn't like to talk about or feel my 'feelings so I just never said no .. that hit home for 'me .. i am so grateful we have a program we can finally get honest in ..
-- Edited by MeTwo2 on Saturday 18th of March 2017 12:12:13 AM
Great stuff here, I want to refer back to this entire thread often, so much to think about and so many great answers. I never realized just how much of myself I gave up in this process until recently when I looked back. What I expected to see was this beautiful and powerful river, instead I saw the Grand Canyon. My confidence, my strength, my values, my serenity, all eroded like the ground around the Colorado River leaving a giant gorge in what used to be my life.
I am filling it in, sometimes I feel like I am filling that Canyon, alone, one shovel full at a time (the past couple of days) and other times I see all the members of Al-anon and this board driving loaded dump trucks to help me.
You all said so much so well, but extra credit this time to MeTwo2, Thank you, I like the way you worded most of that. It really resonated with me.