Hi all, I'm back posting again. My ABF is now 7 months into AA. For the most part I would say he is doing very well. You can see how AA is helping.
However, he has had quite a few slips, especially in the last month or so. He does jump right back into the program the next day. He use to go every day, but I kind of think he skips a day or two, but just tells me that's what he is doing. They tell him it's alright, he came back, its a new day. My question is how can my ABF convince himself, despite knowing what he knows from being in a program for 7 months, that the occasional slip up isn't that big a deal?
Last night I could tell he had a few drinks but he was talking to me like there was no way I could know (I didn't say anything) and was talking about how good he is doing in the program and how great the future is looking, and how much he has learned and was repeating all his steps and talking to me like someone who hasn't drank in 20 yrs. I know he missed his meeting last night because he didn't bring home his coffee cup (any AA person knows what I mean, lol) but he still walked in and acted like he just had a great meeting. I just nodded along because obviously even if I confronted him and said "you have been drinking!" he would lie and say no. (which he has also done a few times)
Just trying to understand an alcoholic's logic in these situations. There is no way he doesn't know right from wrong by now. It is kind of messed up because I was thinking of moving in with him (5 years dating, but I have my own place with my own 15yr old), but now I really don't think 7 months is enough time for him to have things figured out enough to where I can bring my daughter there to live. The cover ups are maddening.
Not confronting him, just want this information for myself, to learn.
-- Edited by Aerin on Wednesday 15th of March 2017 10:30:06 AM
-- Edited by Aerin on Wednesday 15th of March 2017 10:41:44 AM
el-cee said
Mar 15, 2017
Hes not got 7 months sobriety. Hes still active, hes not in recovery yet. I think its good hes attending meetings but he is not in recovery yet. A couple of years ago I dated a guy for a short time, he was attending meetings every week faithfully and drinking every day. He could spout the steps traditions slogans all of it. It means very little. Its still denial. Anyway, what about you Aerin, are you in your own program of recovery with Alanon?
SerenityRUS said
Mar 15, 2017
My understanding is it's more about the attitude that there is nothing worse than a belly full of beer and a head full of AA.
I have known many RA's who have gone to meetings drunk for years and then something gives and they go all in, they are looking for the softer easier way into sobriety and finally just come to the fact that's not how that all works.
Those are their words so I don't know if that helps you understand a little better. Hugs ..
Aerin said
Mar 15, 2017
El-cee,
Yes, I am in Al-Anon via online and through this board and much reading. I learn something new every day. It has helped me tremendously. At first I wasn't sure it was, but I see that it does. I just still have questions that I think only people on this board have insight on. I am super proud (most of the time!) of how I have handled a lot of things since Al Anon. I am glad he admitted he needed help and started AA. But you are spot on that he really isn't in recovery. I never really thought of it that way. I don't think he realizes it yet either. I am not sure he knows what sober means. I think he thinks it means most of the time.
Serenity: I agree.
-- Edited by Aerin on Wednesday 15th of March 2017 12:08:02 PM
KT2015 said
Mar 15, 2017
Hey Aerin,
Glad to hear you have your own program. I know I could spend forever focusing on what my AH is doing or not doing if he realizes or doesn't realize things about himself but that is how my life goes quickly into the unmanageable realm. What helps me is to remember that it is a disease that can never be cured and that he will always be an alcoholic weather he is drinking or not. THen I leave his drinking in his hands. I enjoy the good times yet keep a realistic view that the bad times will happen to. What brings me comfort is that I now have the tools to keep my own piece of mind no matter which way the wind is blowing. Face to face meetings are really helpful for me. Sending good vibes your way. Glad to hear things are going generally well with your ABF.
shrnp said
Mar 15, 2017
If he is still drinking he is not in recovery he is in denial. He is not fooling anyone at AA either.
Mike B said
Mar 15, 2017
Hi Aerin, Glad to have you here. Denial- yes, being dishonest- yes, still active- yes. The message in AA is to keep coming back. The hope is that one day the Alcoholic will here something that will erase the denial and dishonesty and accept that they're an Alcoholic. Then do something about it. Honesty is one of the basic principles in AA. To Thy Own Self Be True. Sounds like he may be saving face with you and others instead of saving his *ss. He may just not be ready for a life free of Alcohol. I see it all the time.
The more important question is- Why is the focus on him instead of you? Are you going to be okay with or without him? Many times we focus on the Alcoholic thinking that if they change I'll be good. That's called co-dependency. We all have it, that's why we're here. We are afflicted with the disease of Alcoholism the same as the Alcoholic we just don't have the allergy to alcohol. Our symptoms are very similar. What we do in Alanon is focus on what's in our control- us. We build a relationship with a HP through the Steps and then grow in that relationship one day at a time. Our goal is to become immune to the actions of others and focus on our well being. Having faith that we'll be okay no matter what happens around us or to the people we care about. When we take care of ourselves, our life's fall into place the way they were intended too.
Aerin said
Mar 15, 2017
Shrnp: Agree. I know he has gone there maybe 3x after drinking a little. Even a tiny bit of beer you can smell on him. I know they know in the room. But I guess part of the rules are not to talk to him about it. not sure how that works.
Mike B: Of yes, I have definitely been learning in Al Anon. And I can continue to follow the program. If it was just me and him I think it would be a lot "easier".
But My personal issue is, as some people here know and are probably sick of me mentioning it, is we have dated 5 years but live in separate homes. He has a 11 year old son and I have a 15 yr old daughter. I have 50/50 with her dad so I only go to his house when I am not with her. She has been around my ABF before but never when he has been drinking. She has no clue and personally I do not want her to see him like that. Its bad enough his son is dealing with it. None of this mattered too much until this year when he and everyone who knows us doesn't understand why we don't live together. I am literally hounded by people we know. And of course I cannot say "Well, he is an alcoholic and I don't want my daughter there".
I struggle financially more each year and so does he (we live in South Florida, rent and mortgages are super high) and our incomes together would provide a nice life and savings etc. Even though he knows why I have said no to moving in in the past, he feels he is in "recovery" and doing great and that I have nothing to worry about. That he is taking it serious and that we need to move on already. So in some ways I feel the pressure is on me to make some kind of decision. Someone once said just sit back and watch what happens. My lease is up in July. I don't think he quite understands that a sober date means you haven't had a drink since that date. I think, based on the hiding and lies, that he uses the once a week slip up day as excuse (maybe unconsciously) to get it out of system and then go back to being part of program.
milkwood said
Mar 15, 2017
Greetings Aerin,
Lovely to see that handsome lion again and so great to hear all the progress taking place with you.
I appreciate the views that others have offered here - thank you for creating a helpful thread that we can all learn from!
My AH used to say that he learnt a lot each time he 'slipped up' and, as Mike mentions, he eventually learnt that he had to go 'all in'.
When AH did stop drinking I think that it was about two years before I started to recognise the man I had married. In the meantime I really focused on my own life and started to do things that made my life more interesting - that way I didn't have to wait around for someone else to change or to choose a path for 'us'. I simply let my husband know that he was welcome to come and share time on my path if he wanted to, but I don't step off 'my path' for anyone anymore!
I never denied my husband's drinking to our friends. I didn't advertise it but it was clear they knew anyway so if someone asked me why we were travelling separately (for example) I would either say that 'we had some stuff to sort out' or that 'I needed my own safe space away from the alcohol otherwise I'd go mad!'
Sending (((((hugs))))))
Jerry F said
Mar 15, 2017
Aerin this disease is cunning powerful and baffling and I am so grateful to be a "double" for my own peace of mind and health. First detachment from the disease was with my alcoholic/addict wife and when I was still checking I knew I wasn't recovering...9years later alcohol free I got into AA and they told me just before I went "the next time you drink you die"...I didn't believe that because of course I was at that time smarter than God and my sponsor combined however I knew why I was being given the information...Sobriety is my responsibility and mine alone. I am compassionate for any family member, friend, spouse or associate of the alcoholic...that is being under the influence with the front door wide open. Turn him over to the higher powers and be on your own way. ((((hugs))))
Iamhere said
Mar 15, 2017
(((Aerin))) - I am blessed that I've never had a relapse (I'm a double-winner)....I can't completely and with any certainty tell you why but I listened when they said what they said which was, "Go to meetings every day, don't drink in between meetings." I wish I could tell you why I listened to a room of Recovering Alcoholics and nobody before that - it must have been a God-thing!
I've seen folks who came and stayed, came and left, came and struggled and then many more variations of that mix. I don't know why some relapse and others don't but the acronym for SLIP is Sobriety Loses It's Priority. I do believe that program interrupts the disease and makes it more difficult. He's able to return to meetings as the door is always, always open. Just like in Al-Anon, the members in that meeting will love anyone that walks in - no matter their condition - drunk, sober, relapsed, etc. We don't judge over there either - we carry the message to the one's that still suffer.
I'm sending prayers for both of you - keep working the program and trust the process!
a4l said
Mar 16, 2017
For me its a question of step one. Powerless over alcohol and life unmanageable. and the only requirement for membership a desire to stop drinking. The problem is the alcoholic mind, which really doesn't want to be convinced of being powerless. It wants to tempt it, own it, learn to drink successfully. S I think there are stages to alcoholism but it is a progressive disease regardless of where one is when they decide to arrest it. The alcoholic mind is a different beast.
Hi all, I'm back posting again.
My ABF is now 7 months into AA. For the most part I would say he is doing very well. You can see how AA is helping.
However, he has had quite a few slips, especially in the last month or so. He does jump right back into the program the next day. He use to go every day, but I kind of think he skips a day or two, but just tells me that's what he is doing. They tell him it's alright, he came back, its a new day. My question is how can my ABF convince himself, despite knowing what he knows from being in a program for 7 months, that the occasional slip up isn't that big a deal?
Last night I could tell he had a few drinks but he was talking to me like there was no way I could know (I didn't say anything) and was talking about how good he is doing in the program and how great the future is looking, and how much he has learned and was repeating all his steps and talking to me like someone who hasn't drank in 20 yrs. I know he missed his meeting last night because he didn't bring home his coffee cup (any AA person knows what I mean, lol) but he still walked in and acted like he just had a great meeting. I just nodded along because obviously even if I confronted him and said "you have been drinking!" he would lie and say no. (which he has also done a few times)
Just trying to understand an alcoholic's logic in these situations. There is no way he doesn't know right from wrong by now. It is kind of messed up because I was thinking of moving in with him (5 years dating, but I have my own place with my own 15yr old), but now I really don't think 7 months is enough time for him to have things figured out enough to where I can bring my daughter there to live. The cover ups are maddening.
Not confronting him, just want this information for myself, to learn.
-- Edited by Aerin on Wednesday 15th of March 2017 10:30:06 AM
-- Edited by Aerin on Wednesday 15th of March 2017 10:41:44 AM
I have known many RA's who have gone to meetings drunk for years and then something gives and they go all in, they are looking for the softer easier way into sobriety and finally just come to the fact that's not how that all works.
Those are their words so I don't know if that helps you understand a little better. Hugs ..
El-cee,
Yes, I am in Al-Anon via online and through this board and much reading. I learn something new every day. It has helped me tremendously. At first I wasn't sure it was, but I see that it does. I just still have questions that I think only people on this board have insight on. I am super proud (most of the time!) of how I have handled a lot of things since Al Anon. I am glad he admitted he needed help and started AA. But you are spot on that he really isn't in recovery. I never really thought of it that way. I don't think he realizes it yet either.
I am not sure he knows what sober means. I think he thinks it means most of the time.
Serenity: I agree.
-- Edited by Aerin on Wednesday 15th of March 2017 12:08:02 PM
Glad to hear you have your own program. I know I could spend forever focusing on what my AH is doing or not doing if he realizes or doesn't realize things about himself but that is how my life goes quickly into the unmanageable realm. What helps me is to remember that it is a disease that can never be cured and that he will always be an alcoholic weather he is drinking or not. THen I leave his drinking in his hands. I enjoy the good times yet keep a realistic view that the bad times will happen to. What brings me comfort is that I now have the tools to keep my own piece of mind no matter which way the wind is blowing. Face to face meetings are really helpful for me. Sending good vibes your way. Glad to hear things are going generally well with your ABF.
Hi Aerin, Glad to have you here. Denial- yes, being dishonest- yes, still active- yes. The message in AA is to keep coming back. The hope is that one day the Alcoholic will here something that will erase the denial and dishonesty and accept that they're an Alcoholic. Then do something about it. Honesty is one of the basic principles in AA. To Thy Own Self Be True. Sounds like he may be saving face with you and others instead of saving his *ss. He may just not be ready for a life free of Alcohol. I see it all the time.
The more important question is- Why is the focus on him instead of you? Are you going to be okay with or without him? Many times we focus on the Alcoholic thinking that if they change I'll be good. That's called co-dependency. We all have it, that's why we're here. We are afflicted with the disease of Alcoholism the same as the Alcoholic we just don't have the allergy to alcohol. Our symptoms are very similar. What we do in Alanon is focus on what's in our control- us. We build a relationship with a HP through the Steps and then grow in that relationship one day at a time. Our goal is to become immune to the actions of others and focus on our well being. Having faith that we'll be okay no matter what happens around us or to the people we care about. When we take care of ourselves, our life's fall into place the way they were intended too.
Shrnp: Agree. I know he has gone there maybe 3x after drinking a little. Even a tiny bit of beer you can smell on him. I know they know in the room. But I guess part of the rules are not to talk to him about it. not sure how that works.
Mike B: Of yes, I have definitely been learning in Al Anon. And I can continue to follow the program. If it was just me and him I think it would be a lot "easier".
But My personal issue is, as some people here know and are probably sick of me mentioning it, is we have dated 5 years but live in separate homes. He has a 11 year old son and I have a 15 yr old daughter. I have 50/50 with her dad so I only go to his house when I am not with her. She has been around my ABF before but never when he has been drinking. She has no clue and personally I do not want her to see him like that. Its bad enough his son is dealing with it. None of this mattered too much until this year when he and everyone who knows us doesn't understand why we don't live together. I am literally hounded by people we know. And of course I cannot say "Well, he is an alcoholic and I don't want my daughter there".
I struggle financially more each year and so does he (we live in South Florida, rent and mortgages are super high) and our incomes together would provide a nice life and savings etc. Even though he knows why I have said no to moving in in the past, he feels he is in "recovery" and doing great and that I have nothing to worry about. That he is taking it serious and that we need to move on already. So in some ways I feel the pressure is on me to make some kind of decision. Someone once said just sit back and watch what happens. My lease is up in July. I don't think he quite understands that a sober date means you haven't had a drink since that date. I think, based on the hiding and lies, that he uses the once a week slip up day as excuse (maybe unconsciously) to get it out of system and then go back to being part of program.
Lovely to see that handsome lion again and so great to hear all the progress taking place with you.
I appreciate the views that others have offered here - thank you for creating a helpful thread that we can all learn from!
My AH used to say that he learnt a lot each time he 'slipped up' and, as Mike mentions, he eventually learnt that he had to go 'all in'.
When AH did stop drinking I think that it was about two years before I started to recognise the man I had married. In the meantime I really focused on my own life and started to do things that made my life more interesting - that way I didn't have to wait around for someone else to change or to choose a path for 'us'. I simply let my husband know that he was welcome to come and share time on my path if he wanted to, but I don't step off 'my path' for anyone anymore!
I never denied my husband's drinking to our friends. I didn't advertise it but it was clear they knew anyway so if someone asked me why we were travelling separately (for example) I would either say that 'we had some stuff to sort out' or that 'I needed my own safe space away from the alcohol otherwise I'd go mad!'
Sending (((((hugs))))))
Aerin this disease is cunning powerful and baffling and I am so grateful to be a "double" for my own peace of mind and health. First detachment from the disease was with my alcoholic/addict wife and when I was still checking I knew I wasn't recovering...9years later alcohol free I got into AA and they told me just before I went "the next time you drink you die"...I didn't believe that because of course I was at that time smarter than God and my sponsor combined however I knew why I was being given the information...Sobriety is my responsibility and mine alone. I am compassionate for any family member, friend, spouse or associate of the alcoholic...that is being under the influence with the front door wide open. Turn him over to the higher powers and be on your own way. ((((hugs))))
I've seen folks who came and stayed, came and left, came and struggled and then many more variations of that mix. I don't know why some relapse and others don't but the acronym for SLIP is Sobriety Loses It's Priority. I do believe that program interrupts the disease and makes it more difficult. He's able to return to meetings as the door is always, always open. Just like in Al-Anon, the members in that meeting will love anyone that walks in - no matter their condition - drunk, sober, relapsed, etc. We don't judge over there either - we carry the message to the one's that still suffer.
I'm sending prayers for both of you - keep working the program and trust the process!