So I have been doing a lot of thinking about "detachment with love" I realized last week that I was practicing detachment before I knew the term, but it was more like "detachment with middle finger". I have set a boundary with my A that he can't "live here" until he is "sober". I put quotes bc I am not certain what that even looks like right now, but in the moment- when I realized something HAD to change- that he needed to go. He can see the kids whenever he likes as long as he hasn't been drinking. This boundary has been a little flexible bc sometimes I can't help when he shows up, right? So I wait, I watch, I listen and eventually he goes. Little to no engagement from me depending on what level of craziness he is that day. I feel better, I have less stress, I am realizing that I was the text book co-dependent enabler in that I absolutely feel and felt I had to control everything. Anyways, back to detachment with love... I have been struggling with what is truly best- for him, for me, for us as a family. I realize I can not control his recovery, and I am working hard on mine, but does detachment have to be him not living at home? A big part of me feels like if he were to come home- right now- that we would spiral right back to where we were, and worse. Part of me feels like if he had cancer, would I kick him out then? I then think, well if it was just me it might be different, but I have to consider the children, the affect it has on them. But it also affects them that he is away.
I was listening to a podcast that was on this topic, and they talked about how detachment with Love is like a blanket. So in my way, I am practicing detachment- not engaging, accepting he has to make his own changes, but I still love him... and I tell him that. He says he misses us (I don't engage with that--- I've learned) but the reality is we miss him too. So I will simply say that, and be done. I know Alanon isn't about giving advice, but this is a struggle for me right now.
I think if I am totally honest with myself, even if I said "come home" 1) I am not sure that he would bc then he couldn't hide that he's still drinking (he says he's going to meetings, I listen and know the lies, but the other night he called me WASTED, saying how the meeting sucked yadda yadda, but he knows he needs it, yadda yadda and the whole time I am thinking- You are drunk! ha! but I didn't say anything, I didn't ask, I didn't accuse) and 2) If he did come home I think it would negatively affect me right now since I am so new to Alanon. Maybe with time and my own recovery I will find the day that it makes sense for him to come home with or without his own recovery. I read a lot of shares where people live and (Seem) happy with their qualifier(s), so it's not like it's impossible- right?
thank you all for your support
SerenityRUS said
Mar 7, 2017
What a very powerful share in your recovery .. I go back to a very simple question.. Can you love your A right where he is at and be ok with it? If the answer continues to be yes more power to you .. My only encouragement is you have a whole lot more time in program before deciding if you can or can't .. There is no need to hurry one way or another. Hugs .. Keep coming back ;)
shrnp said
Mar 7, 2017
Hello pumkin,
Just because someone drinks does not mean that someone should leave the home. It is their inappropriate behavior when they drink that causes us to not want to be around them. Some alcoholics get very disruptive and like to start arguments. While others can be very functional. You have to do what is best for your family. Your set of circumstances might seem very similar to someone else's but it is still unique. When I left my ex-bf, I always wondered what he was doing without me. So, even though I was not physically around him, I was driving myself crazy thinking about him. I had to find other things to do, and let him fail or succeed by himself. It is not easy and it took a few years. I enjoyed the peace I found without him. It was nice to not have my entire life center around alcoholism. I don't think you realize how much space it takes up until it is gone. Give it time, things will work out.
pumkin26 said
Mar 7, 2017
Thank you SerenityRUS--- I think your simple question is exactly what I am chewing on in my head. Right now, in this moment my answer is (has to be) no. But I have faith that in time that answer might change. And taking it one day at a time helps is what I try and focus on and not the what-ifs, right? I feel like I am re-wiring my brain. Ha! It is interesting, every night he calls and says he's on his way to IOP and "ugh, it sucks" etc and I just say ok and then move on with the conversation. I will say this weekend he decided to do something with the kids- and actually FOLLOWED through, which NEVER happens. They had a great time, I had a break. And not once did I worry, but all day Saturday and into Sunday morning I felt the underlying anxiety--- will he or won't he--- bc he is always disappointing the boys. Now that he isn't here, he HAS to make the effort. But then I also feel like he gets to swoop in without all the arguments and tantrums and general childhood antics and have FUN with them. Like he's the fun one and I am the mean parenting parent :/ hardly fair, but I am trying not to dwell on it too much.
Thank you again :)
pumkin26 said
Mar 7, 2017
thank you , shrnp. I agree.
He is a very obnoxious alcoholic and my life was spinning in the insanity. If he just came home and passed out or whatever, then maybe I would feel different, you are so right. Sometime my focus is off (still so new) and so I do need to redirect my thinking. He needed to leave the home because of his actions physical and verbal against me. While not right out violent, it was headed that way. I felt powerless and it scared the shit out of me. In that moment I was like he isn't who I know him to be and he could rear his angry head at any moment. The hardest part was knowing the kids were witnessing it (whether directly or indirectly bc they were doing other things). He is a mean mean drunk. The other night while drunk and telling me how he was at a meeting (mentioned in first post) he said "I don't need this, I am just a 30-some guy who likes to get fucked up" and I am like WOW. I didn't say anything, I let him ramble. He is holding on for dear life. I see that now. It is so refreshing (even in the worst of moments when I am spiraling) that I am not consumed by his life, his choices, his actions. He is off doing whatever and all I know is he's not here driving me further into the insanity. So thankful I found this site and all of you, thank you!
el-cee said
Mar 8, 2017
I can relate to how you feel here. Its confusing at the beginning. To me it looks like you have awareness of your own enabling and the insanity that alcoholism brings to the home and how it has an impact on the whole family. It seems like you have answered your own questions. If he comes back your recovery may be at risk. For me my recovery comes before everything and anyone or it should because without it Im back with the insanity of this disease. Its too powerful for me to handle or fix or control and Im glad I know that because the action and decisions I make have this basic fact underpinning them. Active drinking spirals me deep into my own dis-ease and I cant do it or maybe I just wont. At the moment it sounds like your kids have a calm Mum most likely meeting their needs much more effectively. You will also most likely be meeting your own needs much better and as for your husband he is a grown man making his own decisions to drink to not. He knows whats at stake. Its up to him. I found the longer I was in program the more clarity I got and then decisions were based on the truth of the situation rather than my emotions or distorted thought processes.
Iamhere said
Mar 8, 2017
Good morning pumkin and all.....For me, detachment with love was like all else - practice, practice, practice. I too recall that I did not understand detachment and was actually trying to ignore or dismiss the disease and the antics of the diseased. This did not work well as I was really just stuffing up my feelings and would later release them unproductively and insanely.
It was brought to my attention that detachment is for me. It's not about removing, ignoring, dismissing, punishing anyone - it's about giving me a safe 'place' where I can be protected from the disease. This safe place is not physical but rather spiritual and is uniquely defined by each of us. I felt guilty and shame that I struggled with detaching with love - my sponsor suggested trying to detach with indifference. For me, at the time, that meant I could not react, not respond, not eye-roll, just pray that in this immediate moment, I am OK - this is only the disease acting/speaking out.
In practicing detachment with indifference for a while, and keeping my focus on me, how I think, process, feel, act, react instead of on them, I got a bit of insanity back and was able to release tons of anxiety, anger, sadness, etc. through the steps. Each day that I found more peace within me, I felt more empathy and love for my qualifier. I can say that most of the time today, when 'they' do something that annoys, scares or bothers me, I can remind myself that I hate the disease but love my person and Bless Them, Change Me.
I had to remember that we are about progress, not perfection. I was never expected to be perfect at detaching and I was not expected to be saintly in my responses and reactions. We are all human with our own imperfections, and we are all allowed to make mistakes. Take it easy on you and allow yourself to just be for a bit. Deep breathing really helps me calm down and focus on the many blessings I have in my life.
(((Hugs)))
pumkin26 said
Mar 8, 2017
thank you ((el-cee))
I definitely relate to what you were saying. I am in this moment very focused on myself, my recovery. My anger/resentment, my insanity wasn't affecting my A-- right? like he didn't care, in the disease my feelings of anger or hurt or sadness never connects with him. I could scream, yell, ignore, etc. but Nothing CHANGED his actions. I kept thinking "why is it so hard to freaking communicate with me" I was trying to wrap my head around something intangible. Unfortunately tho, my kids got my anger, my resentment, my sadness. My anxiety surrounding their father had me so crazy that I couldn't bare to hear another "mommy"--- He was sucking everything out of me. I feel like I still have those moments--- part of that is plain motherhood--- but they are less... I actively working on me, making me happy and making me present with them. I have never said one bad word about their father to them or around them, I always felt that he was the one that would destroy his relationship with his children, not me (of course he blames me, accuses me, but now I know to not engage with that).
pumkin26 said
Mar 8, 2017
(((Iamhere)))
Thank you! Your share on detachment really resonates with me. I know that it doesn't have to be a physical separation in order to have detachment with him--- at least I feel like that is true--- but I feel like I am not at a place that I can confidently practice detachment with him so active (which is why I am struggling a bit- in my brain). I am going to attend my first in-person meeting tomorrow. I am nervous, but I know that I need this for my recovery and hope I can find a sponsor. I am loving the recovery show podcasts too, I just listed to one that had a recording from a speaker at a conference- Buck N. - he adds a little humor to the insanity and I appreciate his share & stories. I read a lot of the topics on the board and even if the topic isn't something I can directly relate with I read for the shares of those of you that have been in the program for a while. I always find a nugget or two to chew on. :) thanks!!!!
Iamhere said
Mar 8, 2017
pumkin - good for you that you're getting to go to a meeting! Online is awesome but F2F just gave me a whole new level of support, awareness and much needed fellowship. I'm still in awe that people with vastly different lives and backgrounds can come together and share honestly and openly with the common goal of healing from this deadly disease.
I so understand being nervous - I think we all feel that way. It's different, it's new and it's an 'unknown'. My hope is you are welcomed and can keep an open mind and open heart. I found great relief in just sitting and listening for a while, and then one day, found my voice.
Let us know how it goes - sending you positive thoughts and prayers!
So I have been doing a lot of thinking about "detachment with love" I realized last week that I was practicing detachment before I knew the term, but it was more like "detachment with middle finger". I have set a boundary with my A that he can't "live here" until he is "sober". I put quotes bc I am not certain what that even looks like right now, but in the moment- when I realized something HAD to change- that he needed to go. He can see the kids whenever he likes as long as he hasn't been drinking. This boundary has been a little flexible bc sometimes I can't help when he shows up, right? So I wait, I watch, I listen and eventually he goes. Little to no engagement from me depending on what level of craziness he is that day. I feel better, I have less stress, I am realizing that I was the text book co-dependent enabler in that I absolutely feel and felt I had to control everything. Anyways, back to detachment with love... I have been struggling with what is truly best- for him, for me, for us as a family. I realize I can not control his recovery, and I am working hard on mine, but does detachment have to be him not living at home? A big part of me feels like if he were to come home- right now- that we would spiral right back to where we were, and worse. Part of me feels like if he had cancer, would I kick him out then? I then think, well if it was just me it might be different, but I have to consider the children, the affect it has on them. But it also affects them that he is away.
I was listening to a podcast that was on this topic, and they talked about how detachment with Love is like a blanket. So in my way, I am practicing detachment- not engaging, accepting he has to make his own changes, but I still love him... and I tell him that. He says he misses us (I don't engage with that--- I've learned) but the reality is we miss him too. So I will simply say that, and be done. I know Alanon isn't about giving advice, but this is a struggle for me right now.
I think if I am totally honest with myself, even if I said "come home" 1) I am not sure that he would bc then he couldn't hide that he's still drinking (he says he's going to meetings, I listen and know the lies, but the other night he called me WASTED, saying how the meeting sucked yadda yadda, but he knows he needs it, yadda yadda and the whole time I am thinking- You are drunk! ha! but I didn't say anything, I didn't ask, I didn't accuse) and 2) If he did come home I think it would negatively affect me right now since I am so new to Alanon. Maybe with time and my own recovery I will find the day that it makes sense for him to come home with or without his own recovery. I read a lot of shares where people live and (Seem) happy with their qualifier(s), so it's not like it's impossible- right?
thank you all for your support
Just because someone drinks does not mean that someone should leave the home. It is their inappropriate behavior when they drink that causes us to not want to be around them. Some alcoholics get very disruptive and like to start arguments. While others can be very functional. You have to do what is best for your family. Your set of circumstances might seem very similar to someone else's but it is still unique. When I left my ex-bf, I always wondered what he was doing without me. So, even though I was not physically around him, I was driving myself crazy thinking about him. I had to find other things to do, and let him fail or succeed by himself. It is not easy and it took a few years. I enjoyed the peace I found without him. It was nice to not have my entire life center around alcoholism. I don't think you realize how much space it takes up until it is gone. Give it time, things will work out.
Thank you again :)
He is a very obnoxious alcoholic and my life was spinning in the insanity. If he just came home and passed out or whatever, then maybe I would feel different, you are so right. Sometime my focus is off (still so new) and so I do need to redirect my thinking. He needed to leave the home because of his actions physical and verbal against me. While not right out violent, it was headed that way. I felt powerless and it scared the shit out of me. In that moment I was like he isn't who I know him to be and he could rear his angry head at any moment. The hardest part was knowing the kids were witnessing it (whether directly or indirectly bc they were doing other things). He is a mean mean drunk. The other night while drunk and telling me how he was at a meeting (mentioned in first post) he said "I don't need this, I am just a 30-some guy who likes to get fucked up" and I am like WOW. I didn't say anything, I let him ramble. He is holding on for dear life. I see that now. It is so refreshing (even in the worst of moments when I am spiraling) that I am not consumed by his life, his choices, his actions. He is off doing whatever and all I know is he's not here driving me further into the insanity. So thankful I found this site and all of you, thank you!
It was brought to my attention that detachment is for me. It's not about removing, ignoring, dismissing, punishing anyone - it's about giving me a safe 'place' where I can be protected from the disease. This safe place is not physical but rather spiritual and is uniquely defined by each of us. I felt guilty and shame that I struggled with detaching with love - my sponsor suggested trying to detach with indifference. For me, at the time, that meant I could not react, not respond, not eye-roll, just pray that in this immediate moment, I am OK - this is only the disease acting/speaking out.
In practicing detachment with indifference for a while, and keeping my focus on me, how I think, process, feel, act, react instead of on them, I got a bit of insanity back and was able to release tons of anxiety, anger, sadness, etc. through the steps. Each day that I found more peace within me, I felt more empathy and love for my qualifier. I can say that most of the time today, when 'they' do something that annoys, scares or bothers me, I can remind myself that I hate the disease but love my person and Bless Them, Change Me.
I had to remember that we are about progress, not perfection. I was never expected to be perfect at detaching and I was not expected to be saintly in my responses and reactions. We are all human with our own imperfections, and we are all allowed to make mistakes. Take it easy on you and allow yourself to just be for a bit. Deep breathing really helps me calm down and focus on the many blessings I have in my life.
(((Hugs)))
I definitely relate to what you were saying. I am in this moment very focused on myself, my recovery. My anger/resentment, my insanity wasn't affecting my A-- right? like he didn't care, in the disease my feelings of anger or hurt or sadness never connects with him. I could scream, yell, ignore, etc. but Nothing CHANGED his actions. I kept thinking "why is it so hard to freaking communicate with me" I was trying to wrap my head around something intangible. Unfortunately tho, my kids got my anger, my resentment, my sadness. My anxiety surrounding their father had me so crazy that I couldn't bare to hear another "mommy"--- He was sucking everything out of me. I feel like I still have those moments--- part of that is plain motherhood--- but they are less... I actively working on me, making me happy and making me present with them. I have never said one bad word about their father to them or around them, I always felt that he was the one that would destroy his relationship with his children, not me (of course he blames me, accuses me, but now I know to not engage with that).
Thank you! Your share on detachment really resonates with me. I know that it doesn't have to be a physical separation in order to have detachment with him--- at least I feel like that is true--- but I feel like I am not at a place that I can confidently practice detachment with him so active (which is why I am struggling a bit- in my brain). I am going to attend my first in-person meeting tomorrow. I am nervous, but I know that I need this for my recovery and hope I can find a sponsor. I am loving the recovery show podcasts too, I just listed to one that had a recording from a speaker at a conference- Buck N. - he adds a little humor to the insanity and I appreciate his share & stories. I read a lot of the topics on the board and even if the topic isn't something I can directly relate with I read for the shares of those of you that have been in the program for a while. I always find a nugget or two to chew on. :) thanks!!!!
I so understand being nervous - I think we all feel that way. It's different, it's new and it's an 'unknown'. My hope is you are welcomed and can keep an open mind and open heart. I found great relief in just sitting and listening for a while, and then one day, found my voice.
Let us know how it goes - sending you positive thoughts and prayers!