What do you say to your spouse when you come home from work and they are already drunk? How do you carry on a conversation like it's just another day. I'm learning to detach myself from the drinking and my biggest challenge at the moment is knowing when to keep my mouth shut. Even though I'm extremely mad that I came home to it....the drinkers mood is great. However the second my tone or actions change to annoyed...I have tread carefully to avoid an argument. I need to for the lack of better terms come home and say to myself "you're drunk...your problem...I'm going to have a good evening" is that wrong? Do I listen to the same story 12 times with a smile on my face? Advice? Thanks from a very new accepting the fact my spouse is a alcoholic.
MissM said
Feb 19, 2017
I find "I" statements work best for this...
"I have had a long day and I don't really feel like conversation right now, sorry. Can we talk later/tomorrow/..."
"I really need some me time right now"
etc. Basically, if I only refer to what I want and need and i don't say things that refer to the other person at all (such as 'you are drunk" or 'I don't want to talk to you when you've been drinking") etc conflict is reduced a great deal.
The next day it's potentially more helpful to refer to the behaviour but still with "I" statements such as 'I didn't feel like we could have a productive conversation as you kept repeating yourself and I was not in a patient mood".
Keeping the focus on me and stating only my own needs (often calmly and repeatedly) usually gets me the result I need without sparking defensive or belligerant behaviour from the drunk person.
That's just my own experience of course but it seems to work fairly well for me
Curlyblu said
Feb 19, 2017
Thank you for your advice. It will defiantly depend on the mood when I get home...not mine that is. It is defiantly something to try. I have learnt in the past using "I" instead of "you" makes a huge difference. When conversaton is in a pleasant mood it will help.... when things got heated... the use of I...became "it's always about you". Lessons have been learnt to hopefully avoid tense discussions. What your thoughts on bringing up the drinking the next?
MissM said
Feb 19, 2017
Al-anon is, to the best of my understanding, a program where we avoid giving each other 'advice' and instead encourage each other to use the program (meetings, literature, steps etc) to gain confidence to figure out what is best for us and our own unique circumstances and to take the action that we know is best for us. So please don't take anything that is shared here as prescriptive or advisory; only you know what is right for you! I only mention this because the word 'advice" is kind of fraught in al-anon- today's reading is actually all about this very topic! alanon.activeboard.com/t63253378/odat-reading-2-19-2017/
That's not meant to be in any way a criticism, it's just a really positive and cool part of the program that I want to share with you from the outset.
Having said that, I suggest asking yourself what your motive is for wanting to bring up the drinking the next day. The drinker already knows that they drank. Often, when we mention it, we seem to give them permission to blame or defend or direct their own disappointment with themselves back onto us. If we continue to stick to I statements and discuss behaviour rather than accusations I find it goes a lot better. So for example the next day I might say "I didn't enjoy the way you were behaving; I felt like I was being baited into an argument" or "I didn't want to be around you as I felt that you weren't making any sense". Of course they will know themselves if their behaviour was caused by drinking or not and they can assess what they want to do about it.
I think, the take-away for me has been coming to the understanding that the drinking is possibly the sorest, most sensitive trigger my qualifiers have. Mentioning it doesn't stop them, or cure them. It tends to just spark a counter-attack. Mentioning that I couldn't tolerate the behaviour (that they were doing for whatever reason) seems to be a whole different ballgame.
Curlyblu said
Feb 19, 2017
Thank you for bringing that to my attention. I am defiantly going to have to do a lot reading to understand the program much better.
I think I have been looking at our situation misguided. My AH has been through rehab once. Before I met him. He was open about, with a sense pride when he spoke of it. As he turned back to drinking, first socially, to full out out of control. I see now I enabled when I actually thought I was helping.
By asking why I would want to bring it up the next, my thought was so he could see and hear the pain he has caused. He's been through this before "he should know better". He really does know better, but really can't control what has taken over him.
He has broken down and cried in the past over his actions. I truly thought at the time that "ahha he gets it he really understands" only to do it over again.
I find myself lost in it all.
Jerry F said
Feb 19, 2017
Aloha Curlyblu...this was one of the finer lessons I had to learn and it came from many in the program that worked it before they gave it away. Realizing that my alcoholic/addict wife was under the influence I had to admit that she was being altered by the chemicals and therefore could not be able to respond as a normal persons. Her thinking was warped as were her emotions and intentions (spirit) so I had to adjust my own mind, body, spirit and emotions into sanity and not make the situation worse by going crazy which is what I use to do. I did sanity as best I could and turned her and the rest over to my Higher Power as best I could. Mel's ESH on "I" statements also worked great for me as I came to realize that using a "you" statement when trying to rationalize with the alcoholic/addict most always resulted in mutual blame and a war of hurts. I practiced "I" statements until I realized the changes in our communications. Keep coming back and if you already have not found the face to face groups near you check the white pages for Al-Anon. (((((hugs)))))
Jill said
Feb 19, 2017
Welcome.
We can't help them. Finally I understand my own inability to help. Not incidentally, that is the first step.
With that understanding, I no longer need to explain how injured I am by someone else's actions. It does no good. It leaves me with unrealistic expectations leading to my resentment. Ick.
I do better with boundaries. It is a long baby-steps process of what makes ME feel better. It is my boundary and my action.
Keep coming back. If you haven't already done so, I invite you to read back pages here. Are you attending in person meetings? They're very helpful.
Curlyblu said
Feb 19, 2017
Today I made my first step. I started looking on line first and found this. I haven't yet went to a face to face meeting. I will admit I am scared to go. I'm fearful of going and seeing people that I know. The feelings of embarrassment and shame take over.
I worry about it getting out into our community. I worry so much all the time.
Iamhere said
Feb 19, 2017
Welcome to MIP Curlyblu - you last post showed twice - I zapped one.....I figured it happened by accident.
So glad that you found us and glad that you joined right in. The disease of alcoholism is progressive, powerful and baffling. It's considered a family disease as it reaches well beyond the drinker and affects others who live with or love them. There is no right/wrong answer that applies across the board - that's why we refrain from advice. We do offer our own experience, strength and hope to give others different ways of seeing/viewing/responding - it keeps us all focused on the same thing - finding our peace/joy ... no matter what another is or is not doing.
I do encourage you to go to F2F meetings. I understand the fear factor - we've all been there. Al-Anon is an anonymous program, so who you see there, what you hear remains there when you leave. Everyone is encourage to share from the heart and use honestly. Sharing is completely optional and many don't for a while. The best suggestion I got was to listen for the similarities instead of focusing on the differences. Whether your qualifier is a spouse, child, brother, sister, friend or another - we all have common concerns and similar experiences.
There are no requirements to attend - you will be welcome whether your qualifier is in recovery or not. Local F2F meetings gave me a whole support system and group of friends who listen openly without judgement, advice or meddling....way better than family/friends who just don't understand what it's like to love an alcoholic.
To you question - I too often use I statements. When I first began searching for a better way, and in early recovery, I would go to 'safe places'. For me, that included the bathroom and laundry room (2 places I did not get followed into). I also would strap up the dog on a leash and go for a walk or go for a walk alone with my earphones/phone. I practiced saying nothing and if I was asked, I would say I am really not in a good mood tonight or ..... similar.
Making it about me removed most of the ammunition mine needed to start a fight. Almost anything here that included a you was like striking a match. You can retreat and read a book, listen to music, take a bubble bath, etc. It was suggested I find things I enjoyed and practiced self-care when I was uncertain what to say/do...
Our literature is available at most meetings - it's been a big help for my recovery. Keep coming back - there is hope/help always!
Curlyblu said
Feb 19, 2017
What has amazed me reading the posts here, I can see similarities to the struggles many have shared. Words they have used to described what has taken place are like words right out of my mouth.
I've able to understand and relate to people before. But this truly something different I can't explain.
Iamhere said
Feb 19, 2017
Curlyblu - wait until you go to a meeting....I found myself sitting there nodding as others shared especially their feelings, actions and reactions. Recovery is truly miraculous. For me, when I reached out, I really thought I was alone, my situation was unique and there was no hope. When I went to a meeting, I felt as if I could breathe deeper than I had for a long, long while. They truly understood what so many others did not or could not! (((Hugs)))
Jerry F said
Feb 19, 2017
(((((Curly))))) keep in mind that this is a health/medical/disease issue and not a moral or less than condition. Would you be embarrassed if the condition was diabetes or cancer? Alcoholism is a disease and four fold disease of the mind, body, spirit and emotions which can never be cured; only arrested by total abstinence. It is a progressive disease in that if the alcoholic or addict was to have any period of time of abstinence and then return to drinking or using it would be as if no time of sobriety ever existed and often it would be worse. The alcoholic has 3 choices....sobriety, insanity or death. We are or become as sick or sicker as the alcoholic in that we have come to act and react much in the same way without the use of alcohol and we too have the same choices...serenity, insanity or death.
This is an understanding given to me when I first entered the rooms of Al-Anon...2/8/1979 and I have witnessed it very very often. Keep coming back (((((hugs)))))
Curlyblu said
Feb 20, 2017
I've had many debates over that. It's a part of this that I have had a huge issue with. Alcoholism a disease. Keep in mind too that this man was sober for 8 years (before we met). He'll tell stories from that time, and say "I wasn't drinking then"...completely aware that he is now. He also had a family member hit hard by drug abuse, it devastated him. When they spoke he shared his understanding of what was going. He said he understood the hurt. So proud of thier of rehab,encouraging sobriety. His "wise" words spoke deep to this family member.
When all of this was going on, in my head I was screaming "you (insert a nasty name), how can you sit there like a wise old man giving such honest and good advice, yet you can't figure it out."
For as long as I could remember, I was the first to argue the disease part of alcoholism. I would get very head strong...are you kidding me, a disease! Are you telling that Hank over there with cancer and this alcoholic both have diseases. One did not choose this path, the other has.... I remained strong and my thought on it was choice. My AH isn't drunk all the time. He makes the choice to go into the booze store and buy another bottle when he is sober. He made the choice.
I was fearful that the minute I used the word disease, I would become so how become sympathetic. I can't feel sorry for him when he chooses to do this. Accepting it as a disease is going to be very very hard for me.
I'll give your eyes a rest now....and I thank you all for giving me a place to unload
hotrod said
Feb 20, 2017
By Not accepting the reality of the disease concept and the decision made by the AMA, I found I was only hurting myself. It permitted me to remain judgmental, angry and morally superior, while I compared and despaired .
A disease is defined as:
In humans, disease is often used more broadly to refer to any condition that causes pain, dysfunction, distress, social problems, or death to the person afflicted, or similar problems for those in contact with the person. In this broader sense, it sometimes includes injuries, disabilities, disorders, syndromes, infections, isolated symptoms, deviant behaviors, and atypical variations of structure and function, while in other contexts and for other purposes these may be considered distinguishable categories. Diseases can affect people not only physically, but also emotionally, as contracting and living with a disease can alter the affected person's perspective on life. Death due to disease is called death by natural causes. There are four main types of disease: infectious diseases, deficiency diseases, genetic diseases (both hereditary and non-hereditary), and physiological diseases. Diseases can also be classified as communicable and non-communicable.
When my son died from the disease of alcohoism it was noted as "a death my natural causes "
Keep an open mind attend meetings, work the Steps and you will find help
Curlyblu said
Feb 20, 2017
I can't tell you how many times I've read that and picked it to pieces. I've even argued the genetic factor. Some say that our genes predict the likely hood we could become an addict. Even the history of alcoholism in a family....I'll debate that too. I've called bull on this so long. I don't know if it's a curse or a blessing that I have always questioned everything....to the point my grandmother would get furious with me when I questioned her bible lesson....her response was because God said so. That was never good enough for me. (It drove my grandmother crazy) I needed to know why. I came from a messed up background. I never accepted anything without getting to the why. Why did my parents divorce when a very small child....I questioned it for years...found the answer. Why was I abused....found the answer to that too. Often the answers are painful.
This is terribly hard to accept the word disease when I can't answer the why.
el-cee said
Feb 20, 2017
I can relate to all you have shared here. Your need to know why and get to the bottom of things, I'm so like that. When I surrendered the idea I had that there was an answer just waiting for me to find it to get my ex sober then I was able to open to the idea I actually had no control or answers, I had reached step 1 before I even came into Alanon. You sound as if you are ready like I was. Then when I studied up on Alanon like I did with everything in my life and I got many of the spiritual ideas really quickly and my life changed really quickly as I applied the ideas. I had complete faith in them because I had complete 100% evidence that the way I was living and thinking and dealing with my life was getting me nowhere, it was getting me the same chaos over and over.
Please dont let your fears and shame stop you from meetings. Its an anonymous program, every other person there is there for the same reason you are and also knows the shame and to be honest after a few weeks I had no shame because I learned that I cant be held responsible for another adults behaviour and also an alcoholic is obvious to most folk in the community, he would have given away his alcoholism at some point most likely. We have this idea that weve hidden it all but actually when I began losing the shame and opening up about it people knew, they knew before I did. I wish you the best of luck and I feel real hope that things are ready to change for you all you have to do is take that one step and go to a meeting.
Curlyblu said
Feb 20, 2017
Another thought jumped in my head. I can accept the fact he is an alcoholic. There is no colouring that. But why....what is going on I his head that he turned to alcohol to numb it. I asked this because on nights he goes to bed sober, he complains he can't sleep. Why? What is going on in his head...what stresses are not letting go of....on nights when he passes out....magic he had a beautiful slumber.
el-cee said
Feb 20, 2017
Also, the idea of disease gave me such freedom. We choose whether to accept the disease definition or not. At first I didnt because I felt like you, the anger blocked the acceptance. Then after a while I began to listen to others, read about it and it slowly became something I accepted and wow. It freed me from so much. It was a blessing, a gift because I could let go of the idea I had that he was deliberately choosing booze over me and our three children, he was deliberately withholding his love and emotional availability because he was bad and he obviously didnt love me or our family enough. All that crap poisoned my life and so the disease idea !!!! Yip definitely, I will take that over all that horrible stuff any day and then the miracle, I gained compassion and forgiveness and I was free, free from the idea of him being a monster and me being his little helpless victim. He was just a human being fighting a strong compulsion, a disease that thankfully I didnt have but I was effected by the disease and my symptoms were resentment, crippling ill will, victim, martyr thought processes, fear that stopped me living.
Anyway, Alanon has been the most important discovery of my whole life. Put all your reasons (excuses) aside and go, what have you got to lose?
Curlyblu said
Feb 20, 2017
Sorry el-cee...I posted that before I seen your post. I do understand how my own actions have caused my own pain....marking the bottles so I knew if was refilling them...thinking I would think it was the same bottle. I totally get we are playing a messy game right now. Since I love to question so much I need to look for the why....why am I doing this....what can I change. I reached out to an old friend who has been here.....her first comment was never be embarrassed bettering yourself.
hotrod said
Feb 20, 2017
I found that I wanted to know the "why" of everyhing because I thought that if I understood "why" they said what they said or did what they did, I could control it and change it. Accepting my powerlessness gave me the permission I needed to stop asking "why " Learning how to keep an open mind, listen to learn were powerful tools.
Curlyblu said
Feb 20, 2017
Ahha moments can really suck when you have discovered the moment you became an enabler! When I read how the community knows before you do (or more like before you admit) It is out there in the community. A few years ago we had an knock out drag 'em out fight. He called his "friend" because I was being irrational...I needed to be hauled away because I was insane. Of course the fight started because he was drunk and I poked the bear. This "friend" sat with him in his drunken state and listened to everything bad about me....it was all my fault of course. It wasn't long that my AH learnt that his friend had been talking about the night to other people. Not in a supportive mammer....small town gossip. It even made into my place of work (I didn't know it) I found out by a single comment that left me thinking what does mean.....I put the pieces together. And was furious that someone had been talking about us. I realized friends that I thought were supportive were really there to watch the turmoil for entertainment and I needed to handle this on my own.
Now we all have those in our lives who relish in the suffering of others in the negativity. I don't need that. That kind of friendship doesn't work.
Here's the ahha moment.....it wasn't long ago that they came into a conversation, my AH admitted that he knew these people had said something about his drinking in a gossip fashion. Enter enabler.....I could hear his embarrassment and anger that had "let it out".....I travelled with him on that. I should have stood up and said something to him about being out....about the truth to it....it's not lies out there it's truth out there. Today's ahha moment sucks.
Curlyblu said
Feb 20, 2017
Hotrod....that is exactly it. If I learn the why.....learn the hurt. I can fix it. Accepting the " I can't" is going to be very difficult. Ahha moments like I just had helping to understand just how I can make it worse though.
hotrod said
Feb 20, 2017
I agree Curly. I have been there and done that. Denial and enabling are tools that many develop in order to cope with the constant insanity that we live with.
Once the denial lifts and we "see", alanon tools move in and we are free. We are all equals in alanon, we have no leaders and so each is a valued member whose experience, strength and hope are appreciated.
There is no gossip or criticism of others encouraged and what is said at meetings must stay at the meeting. Please do keep coming back
Curlyblu said
Feb 20, 2017
There's is defiantly no denying I live with an alcoholic. I will not deny I love an alcoholic. Is it wrong to say in the same sentence my husband is a good man and an alcoholic? Is where the statement I read numerous times...."don't hate the person, hate the disease" comes in?
hotrod said
Feb 20, 2017
Whatever works for you. Some people learn to separate the disease from the person. I could not and so I decided that in order to maintain my serenity, I could not afford to "Hate" anything because the hating hurt me. Accepting the painful reality of the disease worked for me because I could then interact with the person in a healthy fashion without unrealistic expectations
Curlyblu said
Feb 20, 2017
Ah, that makes sense. I never looked at that it like that. So very true "hate" is a very negative word. So if I am to get myself into a better place I have to let go of as much negative thoughts or notions as I can. I get what that statment is trying to say and also see that for it to be a healthy statement the choice of words need to be changed. It really is even the smallest of things that can tarnish our out look.
Curlyblu said
Feb 20, 2017
Dang it! I just read today's post. Here when I thought my silence was the best. I couldn't say anything because I would blow up. So I would sit in silence while he drank. But I see now how that was hurting me. As well as him. Yes I wanted him to know I was mad. But why what was that going to change. Instead it angered him that I wouldn't talk to him and angered him that he knew why I wasn't talking. Are we dizzy yet. Beyond dizzy!
If would have accepted my day as it had turned out. Had a conversation even small talk, my day would have been a little different.
hotrod said
Feb 20, 2017
((Curlyblue)) we have all been there and done thst You are not alone The best news is that we can develop new tools to live by and begin to thrive and stop hurting ourselves in the process. Please keep coming back
Bethany66 said
Feb 20, 2017
Curly,
At any given time in the last couple of years of my life, I could have written everything you have posted. All the questions and the longing for advice and an answer that would fix this problem and set my world right again are very familiar to me. Detaching, letting go and letting God all seemed like the exact opposite of what the situation I had found myself in needed. This program works in ways that seem counter intuitive to my thinking, and yet, my thinking has led me to the horrible place of insanity! Letting go, a little bit every day, I have seen the results of working the Al-Anon program and it does not change my AH really, but it does change me. I am more at ease with my life and more calmly able to make my way through. I am not sure if I can do this forever, but just for today, I can. My AH displays all the behaviors you explained at some time or another. I can go from zero to crazy in the amount of time it takes me to get through the door and see his drunken face. But now, I have tools. I don't have to react and make the evening a big mess. I can pull back and decide how I can best care for myself at that moment. Do I need to get back in the car and remove myself? Do I need to go to my room, lock the door and take a long hot shower? Do I need to change in to my walking shoes and hit the road for a good long walk? I can decide for myself the best course of action that will bring me the best feeling of comfort and care and let my HP handle the rest.
My struggle with wanting to express myself to my AH and convey to him how his drinking affects me and to REALLY be heard is still a very real one. I know in my head that it doesn't work to try and talk it out, especially when he is drunk, but even later when he is sober is futile. It accomplishes nothing good for me. It makes him defensive and shamed and it makes me feel small and hypocritical. Every time I have tried to talk it out it has not met my expectations and I have ended up resentful and angry. It just does't work. Others told me this, when I came here and asked if it would be beneficial to me to do this. But I had to try and try again. I still struggle with wanting to be heard and understood by my AH. But I am heard and understood by my Al-Anon family. I can go to a meeting and speak and afterwards others thank me for sharing out loud how they feel. We are not alone and we are not crazy. I can come here and post and read others posts and learn new tools and tips to live the life I am craving. The life of peace and blessings.
I hope you will continue to ask questions, as I do and then as your tool box grows, I hope you will learn to let the questions go. Acceptance is my goal for myself and all of us. Without acceptance of life on life's terms we will never get to the place of peace and serenity. And the ride will be very rough. I know it is available for us. We just have to keep doing the work and showing up!
I pray a great week for you and for all of us!
Bethany
Curlyblu said
Feb 20, 2017
It hurts like hell. We sat together this morning having a great conversation. Just everyday stuff, an enjoyable conversation. No mention of the night before. I'm not bringing it up. That feeling of not being acknowledged, my pain, sucks. I get it now, for him to acknowledge that would mean he would have to become admit to himself the issue. He can like in the past "pretend" his remorse to make me "feel better" but it wasn't for the right reasons. He knew what I wanted/needed to hear at the time. And what did that get me, for a brief moment in time we both hurt openly verbally outside. Just to it all over again. Today I choose not to bring it up, instead I'll enjoy the few hours I'll have with him in a sober state.
Bethany66 said
Feb 20, 2017
I admit, it still feels like I am dodging the truth to keep to myself what happens when he is drunk. Like I am avoiding the elephant in the room. But then I remember what I know and that is he is not in his right mind when he is drunk and he doesn't have the control over himself as he does sober. I can tell him what he did or said, but it won't make it not happen again. It is just a hamster wheel and I end up going no where fast. It is not an easy road we travel. Thank goodness for Al-Anon.
Curlyblu said
Feb 20, 2017
I do see why going to a face to face meeting will be good. Learn better about this process I am now on. Coping skills. We had a fabulous day today. He helped me around the house because I asked him to. He discovered projects I had started but couldn't finish because I was too stubborn to ask for help. I said yes i yake on projects that are a little bigger than me He simply said all you needed to do was ask. There seems to be something linked to him feeling needed. I do see how letting go of bad habits I had has made a difference in how I feel. Typically I would have spent the "day after" bitter and angry. Holding it in. We would have talked but I probably would have been careless and snippy. Today I choose to let it go.
jitsuka said
Feb 20, 2017
Hope you're OK Curlyblu
Yes, I'm in that situation, sometimes I've come home and the A in my life, she's been obviously drinking. Other times she will come home from work, disappear upstairs and pretend that I don't know she's drinking.
I used to get really worked up, really p*ssed off. I'm still p*ssed off, but more in a sad way rather than an angry way. It's a subtle difference of thinking.
I found reading the book and attending f2f meetings, posting here and going into the chatroom helped me. The first steps, detaching with love and thinking of yourself are difficult.
Remember the 3 C's - you didn't Cause it, you can't Control it and you can't Cure it.
Look after your emotional and spiritual wellbeing.
I usually just detach my emotional feelings, I just try and practice my serenity and mindfullness. I tend to totally NOT interact with my A when she's been drinking. I will just ignore her. If she speaks I'll maybe provide single answers that are closed answers, they are the equivalent of yes or no. There is no use in trying to have conversation. I usually just isolate myself - I am also aware of the potential of the A to become violent / abusive (I have received verbal abuse in the past), so I tend to have my phone handy and ready to record anything.
It's not nice living like this but first of all, take care of your own mental health.
Peace.
Curlyblu said
Feb 20, 2017
Jitsuka, I can't say for sure if I'm okay. I can say I will be. It will take me a long before I can answer yes without a doubt...I might never be fully okay...I will be better. I'm pleased that I was able to let go for a while today. It was short lived. He has since left the house to go finish a job. I find myself thinking how I'm sure he'll return having had drinks. I can't change that, if that happens. If doesn't happen today, it will another day. I see how I react to it will benifit me. I have the power to change my response. I can choose to sit and watch him....bitter as I would have or can do something differently. If he is annoyed that I'm not "spending time" with him, I can simply and honestly say I have things I need to get finished.
jitsuka said
Feb 20, 2017
Curlyblu wrote:
Jitsuka, I can't say for sure if I'm okay. I can say I will be. It will take me a long before I can answer yes without a doubt...I might never be fully okay...I will be better. I'm pleased that I was able to let go for a while today. It was short lived. He has since left the house to go finish a job. I find myself thinking how I'm sure he'll return having had drinks. I can't change that, if that happens. If doesn't happen today, it will another day. I see how I react to it will benifit me. I have the power to change my response. I can choose to sit and watch him....bitter as I would have or can do something differently. If he is annoyed that I'm not "spending time" with him, I can simply and honestly say I have things I need to get finished.
Hey there
Sounds like you're making progress, keep with it.
It's tough and my heart goes out to you. Keep posting, keep reading here, are there any meetings you can make locally to you?
Make sure you have lots of your own activities to do, self improvement, sports, crafts, just going for a walk. Go to the cinema/art gallery. I used to love going for walks and practicing my mindfullness to keep my mental health in the positive.
Curlyblu said
Feb 20, 2017
Actually I am. I reached out to another who too has had struggled with a simular situation. We are going together to a meeting. I told AH as well. This is something I wasn't hiding from him. Right or wrong I felt I had to. I don't go anywhere in the evening so I knew he would want to know where I was going. Plus when things "good" we never hid anything. He was still having a sober day. He was taken back when I told him I'd be going to a meeting. He asked a meeting for what....I told. He got very quiet. Remained quiet for a while. But he was thinking. I'm sure I'll hear about it the "next time". Right now I don't care, I'll deal with that then. Right now I need this.
Iamhere said
Feb 20, 2017
Let us know how it goes.....I've been distracted all day - just catching up. I will say that acceptance for me was huge - accepting it's a disease, accepting I was powerless, accepting that good people are affected, etc. I was angry for a long while and it did lessen when I realized it was not a choice or a moral issue. I then progressed through sadness and that for me was hard but I knew I was healing...
The program truly helped me learn how to focus on me, detach when necessary and say what I mean, mean what I say and not say it mean. I can kindly say, I am uncomfortable sitting here with you - can we talk tomorrow? And because I am calm, firm and pleasant, it works.
Living with this disease is not easy. I always say there is no shame in loving an alcoholic. For me, the same came from trying to own the blame for the disease. It really was never about me; it's about them. It is by the grace of God that I have learned to just listen and pray for them when they are completely 'off their rocker'....
Keep coming back - you're asking, learning, growing just by being around! That was very helpful for me in the beginning!
Curlyblu said
Feb 21, 2017
I'm going to give you a little back story on the type of AH I have. When I met my AH, he was open and honest about being through rehab. He had started drinking again before we had met. I had asked why. He wanted to enjoy social outings and such. I was young and blind didn't truly understand. We had a very open relationship spoke honestly all the time. Laughed and expressed our love to each other from daily "I love you" to cuddles on the couch.
He is a very intelligent man and we have many common interests. And we both love to talk.
As our relationship grew older those things haven't changed. What had was his drinking. I can't recall when he went from having an evening drink to stuck in the bottle dry. I see now it doesn't matter when it happened. I couldn't have changed it.
As of late, how he drinks has changed. He started coming home having had a few. Thinking I wouldn't know. He wouldn't have drinks in the evening so how would I know right. Then came the no drinks and he would stop coming to bed when I went....we always went to bed together. I caught on that too.
A few months ago he had been out late...something he does not do. When he did come home he was a disgusting slobbering drunk I had never seen. A new low. He was angry that I was still awake...that I seen him. He unleashed a verbal vomit that was unbearable. As I laid in my room. He continued to talk down about my. Youngest woke and heard it all. Came into my room "mommy daddy tells how not to be a bully...but he being a bully to you." My heart broke.
The day when I got up he went to our room. When I knew he was awake I went in and sat on the side of the quiet. He wouldn't look at me. I calmly spoke to him. I didnt replay the things he said....he knew...just asked if that's how he really felt. Told of what his child had said. I know I said things to him that day that hit his raw nerves. He never got angry. He was emtionally broken, he cried. One of the last few things I said him about that night. Was that both of us know he has a drinking problem that is and always will be an alcoholic it's up to him to either keep going or get help. We both know he can't do it alone. He's done it before...needed help. I also told him....what really sucks for me is when he isn't drunk or drinking, he isn't an a$$. He really is a great man. If he wasn't he has already made "easy" to walk away. I love you...today I do not like you.
Living with an alcoholic is really something you can't do alone. I see that know. It's not about announcing it to everyone I meet or know....hey guess what. Thank you HP for leading me to this group, for giving me the strength so I can better myself.
Curlyblu said
Feb 21, 2017
I'll be posting a lot today....tonight is hopefully my first meeting. So I'm trying to get past things out of my control. Stop trying to predict how my AH will react. I know this is bothering him. I know how this man thinks. And thinks a lot. I'm turning the outide world for support. When I used to turn to him as my sounding board for my "troubles". He knows the reason I am going. He knows I won't be able to share with him about any of it, he knows why. But he will twist it into being secretive. He knows I will develop friendships because of him not with him. I will living a life in which I can't include him. He will thinking I'm preparing to leave him.
I'm finding today very hard.
jitsuka said
Feb 21, 2017
Hope you're OK curlyblu and the meeting went OK. It can be quite emotionally draining (I found them very emotionally draining. I used to get overcome with pure emotion whenever I entered the building and had to stand in the entrance, in the corner almost holding back the tears). But it will be helpful to you.
"I have had a long day and I don't really feel like conversation right now, sorry. Can we talk later/tomorrow/..."
"I really need some me time right now"
etc. Basically, if I only refer to what I want and need and i don't say things that refer to the other person at all (such as 'you are drunk" or 'I don't want to talk to you when you've been drinking") etc conflict is reduced a great deal.
The next day it's potentially more helpful to refer to the behaviour but still with "I" statements such as 'I didn't feel like we could have a productive conversation as you kept repeating yourself and I was not in a patient mood".
Keeping the focus on me and stating only my own needs (often calmly and repeatedly) usually gets me the result I need without sparking defensive or belligerant behaviour from the drunk person.
That's just my own experience of course but it seems to work fairly well for me
alanon.activeboard.com/t63253378/odat-reading-2-19-2017/
That's not meant to be in any way a criticism, it's just a really positive and cool part of the program that I want to share with you from the outset.
Having said that, I suggest asking yourself what your motive is for wanting to bring up the drinking the next day. The drinker already knows that they drank. Often, when we mention it, we seem to give them permission to blame or defend or direct their own disappointment with themselves back onto us. If we continue to stick to I statements and discuss behaviour rather than accusations I find it goes a lot better. So for example the next day I might say "I didn't enjoy the way you were behaving; I felt like I was being baited into an argument" or "I didn't want to be around you as I felt that you weren't making any sense". Of course they will know themselves if their behaviour was caused by drinking or not and they can assess what they want to do about it.
I think, the take-away for me has been coming to the understanding that the drinking is possibly the sorest, most sensitive trigger my qualifiers have. Mentioning it doesn't stop them, or cure them. It tends to just spark a counter-attack. Mentioning that I couldn't tolerate the behaviour (that they were doing for whatever reason) seems to be a whole different ballgame.
Aloha Curlyblu...this was one of the finer lessons I had to learn and it came from many in the program that worked it before they gave it away. Realizing that my alcoholic/addict wife was under the influence I had to admit that she was being altered by the chemicals and therefore could not be able to respond as a normal persons. Her thinking was warped as were her emotions and intentions (spirit) so I had to adjust my own mind, body, spirit and emotions into sanity and not make the situation worse by going crazy which is what I use to do. I did sanity as best I could and turned her and the rest over to my Higher Power as best I could. Mel's ESH on "I" statements also worked great for me as I came to realize that using a "you" statement when trying to rationalize with the alcoholic/addict most always resulted in mutual blame and a war of hurts. I practiced "I" statements until I realized the changes in our communications. Keep coming back and if you already have not found the face to face groups near you check the white pages for Al-Anon. (((((hugs)))))
We can't help them. Finally I understand my own inability to help. Not incidentally, that is the first step.
With that understanding, I no longer need to explain how injured I am by someone else's actions. It does no good. It leaves me with unrealistic expectations leading to my resentment. Ick.
I do better with boundaries. It is a long baby-steps process of what makes ME feel better. It is my boundary and my action.
Keep coming back. If you haven't already done so, I invite you to read back pages here. Are you attending in person meetings? They're very helpful.
So glad that you found us and glad that you joined right in. The disease of alcoholism is progressive, powerful and baffling. It's considered a family disease as it reaches well beyond the drinker and affects others who live with or love them. There is no right/wrong answer that applies across the board - that's why we refrain from advice. We do offer our own experience, strength and hope to give others different ways of seeing/viewing/responding - it keeps us all focused on the same thing - finding our peace/joy ... no matter what another is or is not doing.
I do encourage you to go to F2F meetings. I understand the fear factor - we've all been there. Al-Anon is an anonymous program, so who you see there, what you hear remains there when you leave. Everyone is encourage to share from the heart and use honestly. Sharing is completely optional and many don't for a while. The best suggestion I got was to listen for the similarities instead of focusing on the differences. Whether your qualifier is a spouse, child, brother, sister, friend or another - we all have common concerns and similar experiences.
There are no requirements to attend - you will be welcome whether your qualifier is in recovery or not. Local F2F meetings gave me a whole support system and group of friends who listen openly without judgement, advice or meddling....way better than family/friends who just don't understand what it's like to love an alcoholic.
To you question - I too often use I statements. When I first began searching for a better way, and in early recovery, I would go to 'safe places'. For me, that included the bathroom and laundry room (2 places I did not get followed into). I also would strap up the dog on a leash and go for a walk or go for a walk alone with my earphones/phone. I practiced saying nothing and if I was asked, I would say I am really not in a good mood tonight or ..... similar.
Making it about me removed most of the ammunition mine needed to start a fight. Almost anything here that included a you was like striking a match. You can retreat and read a book, listen to music, take a bubble bath, etc. It was suggested I find things I enjoyed and practiced self-care when I was uncertain what to say/do...
Our literature is available at most meetings - it's been a big help for my recovery. Keep coming back - there is hope/help always!
(((((Curly))))) keep in mind that this is a health/medical/disease issue and not a moral or less than condition. Would you be embarrassed if the condition was diabetes or cancer? Alcoholism is a disease and four fold disease of the mind, body, spirit and emotions which can never be cured; only arrested by total abstinence. It is a progressive disease in that if the alcoholic or addict was to have any period of time of abstinence and then return to drinking or using it would be as if no time of sobriety ever existed and often it would be worse. The alcoholic has 3 choices....sobriety, insanity or death. We are or become as sick or sicker as the alcoholic in that we have come to act and react much in the same way without the use of alcohol and we too have the same choices...serenity, insanity or death.
This is an understanding given to me when I first entered the rooms of Al-Anon...2/8/1979 and I have witnessed it very very often. Keep coming back (((((hugs)))))
By Not accepting the reality of the disease concept and the decision made by the AMA, I found I was only hurting myself. It permitted me to remain judgmental, angry and morally superior, while I compared and despaired .
A disease is defined as:
In humans, disease is often used more broadly to refer to any condition that causes pain, dysfunction, distress, social problems, or death to the person afflicted, or similar problems for those in contact with the person. In this broader sense, it sometimes includes injuries, disabilities, disorders, syndromes, infections, isolated symptoms, deviant behaviors, and atypical variations of structure and function, while in other contexts and for other purposes these may be considered distinguishable categories. Diseases can affect people not only physically, but also emotionally, as contracting and living with a disease can alter the affected person's perspective on life.
Death due to disease is called death by natural causes. There are four main types of disease: infectious diseases, deficiency diseases, genetic diseases (both hereditary and non-hereditary), and physiological diseases. Diseases can also be classified as communicable and non-communicable.
When my son died from the disease of alcohoism it was noted as "a death my natural causes "
Keep an open mind attend meetings, work the Steps and you will find help
Please dont let your fears and shame stop you from meetings. Its an anonymous program, every other person there is there for the same reason you are and also knows the shame and to be honest after a few weeks I had no shame because I learned that I cant be held responsible for another adults behaviour and also an alcoholic is obvious to most folk in the community, he would have given away his alcoholism at some point most likely. We have this idea that weve hidden it all but actually when I began losing the shame and opening up about it people knew, they knew before I did. I wish you the best of luck and I feel real hope that things are ready to change for you all you have to do is take that one step and go to a meeting.
Anyway, Alanon has been the most important discovery of my whole life. Put all your reasons (excuses) aside and go, what have you got to lose?
I agree Curly. I have been there and done that. Denial and enabling are tools that many develop in order to cope with the constant insanity that we live with.
Once the denial lifts and we "see", alanon tools move in and we are free. We are all equals in alanon, we have no leaders and so each is a valued member whose experience, strength and hope are appreciated.
There is no gossip or criticism of others encouraged and what is said at meetings must stay at the meeting. Please do keep coming back
At any given time in the last couple of years of my life, I could have written everything you have posted. All the questions and the longing for advice and an answer that would fix this problem and set my world right again are very familiar to me. Detaching, letting go and letting God all seemed like the exact opposite of what the situation I had found myself in needed. This program works in ways that seem counter intuitive to my thinking, and yet, my thinking has led me to the horrible place of insanity! Letting go, a little bit every day, I have seen the results of working the Al-Anon program and it does not change my AH really, but it does change me. I am more at ease with my life and more calmly able to make my way through. I am not sure if I can do this forever, but just for today, I can. My AH displays all the behaviors you explained at some time or another. I can go from zero to crazy in the amount of time it takes me to get through the door and see his drunken face. But now, I have tools. I don't have to react and make the evening a big mess. I can pull back and decide how I can best care for myself at that moment. Do I need to get back in the car and remove myself? Do I need to go to my room, lock the door and take a long hot shower? Do I need to change in to my walking shoes and hit the road for a good long walk? I can decide for myself the best course of action that will bring me the best feeling of comfort and care and let my HP handle the rest.
My struggle with wanting to express myself to my AH and convey to him how his drinking affects me and to REALLY be heard is still a very real one. I know in my head that it doesn't work to try and talk it out, especially when he is drunk, but even later when he is sober is futile. It accomplishes nothing good for me. It makes him defensive and shamed and it makes me feel small and hypocritical. Every time I have tried to talk it out it has not met my expectations and I have ended up resentful and angry. It just does't work. Others told me this, when I came here and asked if it would be beneficial to me to do this. But I had to try and try again. I still struggle with wanting to be heard and understood by my AH. But I am heard and understood by my Al-Anon family. I can go to a meeting and speak and afterwards others thank me for sharing out loud how they feel. We are not alone and we are not crazy. I can come here and post and read others posts and learn new tools and tips to live the life I am craving. The life of peace and blessings.
I hope you will continue to ask questions, as I do and then as your tool box grows, I hope you will learn to let the questions go. Acceptance is my goal for myself and all of us. Without acceptance of life on life's terms we will never get to the place of peace and serenity. And the ride will be very rough. I know it is available for us. We just have to keep doing the work and showing up!
I pray a great week for you and for all of us!
Bethany
Yes, I'm in that situation, sometimes I've come home and the A in my life, she's been obviously drinking. Other times she will come home from work, disappear upstairs and pretend that I don't know she's drinking.
I used to get really worked up, really p*ssed off. I'm still p*ssed off, but more in a sad way rather than an angry way. It's a subtle difference of thinking.
I found reading the book and attending f2f meetings, posting here and going into the chatroom helped me. The first steps, detaching with love and thinking of yourself are difficult.
Remember the 3 C's - you didn't Cause it, you can't Control it and you can't Cure it.
Look after your emotional and spiritual wellbeing.
I usually just detach my emotional feelings, I just try and practice my serenity and mindfullness. I tend to totally NOT interact with my A when she's been drinking. I will just ignore her. If she speaks I'll maybe provide single answers that are closed answers, they are the equivalent of yes or no. There is no use in trying to have conversation. I usually just isolate myself - I am also aware of the potential of the A to become violent / abusive (I have received verbal abuse in the past), so I tend to have my phone handy and ready to record anything.
It's not nice living like this but first of all, take care of your own mental health.
Peace.
Hey there
Sounds like you're making progress, keep with it.
It's tough and my heart goes out to you. Keep posting, keep reading here, are there any meetings you can make locally to you?
Make sure you have lots of your own activities to do, self improvement, sports, crafts, just going for a walk. Go to the cinema/art gallery. I used to love going for walks and practicing my mindfullness to keep my mental health in the positive.
The program truly helped me learn how to focus on me, detach when necessary and say what I mean, mean what I say and not say it mean. I can kindly say, I am uncomfortable sitting here with you - can we talk tomorrow? And because I am calm, firm and pleasant, it works.
Living with this disease is not easy. I always say there is no shame in loving an alcoholic. For me, the same came from trying to own the blame for the disease. It really was never about me; it's about them. It is by the grace of God that I have learned to just listen and pray for them when they are completely 'off their rocker'....
Keep coming back - you're asking, learning, growing just by being around! That was very helpful for me in the beginning!