Opinions on starting relationship when newly sober (New member- first post)
Olivia said
Jan 13, 2017
Hi guys....
I feel like my story is a bit complicated, and I don't want to completely lose you in the details. Let's just say I met a guy the past July online and we sort of fell into something neither of us expected or was looking for. He told me early on that he was an alcoholic, and he was currently off his AA program. The second week we knew each other he went back to AA and he has been working the program since then. He has relapsed three times since, each for one day. I only found out a few months in that people who are newly sober are not supposed to start relationships. I was a little irritated when he told me this, as he didn't warn me from the beginning. He feels that it doesn't really count for him because he's done AA with some success (?) in the past two years.
I struggle with this. Deep down I do feel like we probably should not be anything more than friends because some of those relapses happened after we had disagreements and I blame myself for the result. Also, it scares me that if one day I do decide we should not be in a relationship because of his new sobriety, that the decision will make him drink again.
I'm so confused. I love him but I want sobriety and health for him more than anything. He thinks that I am good for him and good support, but I just don't know. Especially lately because I feel like he barely has time for me with all his AA stuff. I have guilt because I know AA is priority, but there are selfish moments when I wish he gave me more attention and time. Not to mention I do feel like I hold a lot of things in for fear of upsetting him. I think it's making me very resentful and I need to fix this before it becomes a disaster.
Sorry I'm a mess....
Iamhere said
Jan 13, 2017
Welcome to MIP Olivia - glad you found us and glad that you shared. Alcoholism is a progressive disease that is never cured. It can be treated, one day at a time in some type of recovery. AA is but one - very successful for those 'willing to go to any lengths'.
We do not give advice in Al-Anon - instead we go to Al-Anon meetings and share our own experience, strength and hope (ESH) with each other. This allows each of us our own journey and the ability to apply suggested program tools to our own circumstances and situation.
I do encourage you to go to a meeting/two to understand the blessings and curses of living with one you love that is affected by the disease. It's a difficult journey and without support, we can become as insane as they do. Early relationships are difficult for 'earth people' - the disease adds a bit more confusion and complexity for sure...
We do learn in Al-Anon the three C(s) which really helped me when I was starting out - 1. We did not cause it (the relapse, the drinking, the insanity, the disease), 2. We can not cure it and 3. We can not control it.
Please keep coming back - there is hope and help in recovery!!
Olivia said
Jan 13, 2017
Ok, my mistake I guess. I read some posts before joining and posting my own and it seemed like people were discussing their issues and others were giving tips, encouragement and yes..even advice from their own personal experiences.
Kind of depressing to pour your heart out and be told this isn't the place for it, but thanks for clearing it up.
Iamhere said
Jan 13, 2017
Oh - there may be some who will come along and give you advice.....that's just not what it's supposed to be or what I do. You did not make a mistake - our traditions just suggest that we each have our own experiences and opinions, and when we step out of our situation and advise others, we're falling back into a role that is considered contrary to what Al-Anon is about.
If you took personally anything I said, my apologies. I'll step away and we shall see if others have better suggestions for you....
Jerry F said
Jan 13, 2017
Aloha Olivia and welcome to the board and family. After reading your post I am comfortable that you belong here and are looking for the same consequences we have been since finding the program. Do not run off, that would be much to early; there is so much to listen to and learn and you are being affected by this most cunning, powerful and baffling disease. I was born into it and didn't approach the doors of recovery for 37 years and at that time I was done for. There wasn't much left of me mind, body, spirit and emotions and by habit all I was doing was the same things over and over again expecting different results which I found out in the fellowship, later on was the definition of Insanity. I was insane I knew it and my relationships so very often were with alcoholics and addicts...they were what was "normal" to me and I didn't know and didn't know that I didn't know it. Today I know it and the largest part of the knowing it was what I have learned as a member of the recovering communities of Al-Anon and AA.
I relate to what you have said here cause I have done that also expecting different results...and not getting anything different and more time to wonder about new ways I could have the same type of relationship on different. Never happen....ever. I thought I "LOVE" them only to find out it wasn't love but addiction of my own, what a wide eyed realization that became ...I was practicing my own addiction and the disease owned me. I tried everything I could to keep sick relationships going for the wrong reasons telling everyone it was love. I didn't know that breaking the relationship took much more power and effort and reality than I had at that time regardless than how bad things got.
Stick around and keep and open mind...ask questions and follow the leads and suggestions....more is coming....much more. (((((hugs)))))
hotrod said
Jan 14, 2017
Hello Olivia, welcome, alcoholism is a chronic, progressive, fatal disease that can be arrested and never cured. We are powerless over this disease and that is the reason that nobody can really give you advice is to the question if you should stay in the relationship or not. All we can suggest is that if you are in a relationship with someone who is an alcoholic, then there is a program for family members called Al-Anon that can help you decide .
Face to face meetings are held in most comminities and here I was given constructive tools to live by while I took the time to make my own decisions. In Al-Anon we believe that we are all capable of making decisions,once we are able to develop new tools to reinforce our self-esteem and self-worth and trust a power greater than ourselves.
There is hope and help so please keep coming back
hiraeth said
Jan 14, 2017
Hey Olivia! Welcome!
It's hard to say if your bloke is or isn't ready for a relationship or if this relationship is or isn't right for either of you. Only HP knows that for sure, in my opinion. AA can give guidelines and they don't say this stuff for fun - it is hard won wisdom of direct experience and should be respected. If they say 12 months it is for good reason. Most alcoholics believe the guidelines don't apply to them because they are unique and different somehow and resent being told what to do - this is part of the personality. AA is often regarded as life or death stuff by those who have lived it long enough to take it seriously. Your guy doesn't have 12 months sobriety, that simple. It's probably wise in theory to defer to the advice of those whose business it is to live and study this disease through direct experience, like AA does. But translating that to real life is not straight forward! Because you love him etc. This is a hard situation to be in, and it is a sliding doors moment in your life. Two paths ahead of you, one with him, one without, and I'd hazard a guess that each of those paths will bring very different learning and experience and transformation to you :)
When you take into account that he is active in AA again now and trying, it would be arrogant of any of us to attempt to predict what he will do now as far as maintaining sobriety or not. He may never drink again. If either he or you thinks that will depend on anything you say or do or don't do, you're both misguided. Life has surprised me too many times for me to be happy to say much with total conviction, however there are patterns that are consistent with alcoholism.
I can say with certainty that this is right for you right now, because it is what is happening. My personal belief is that nothing is by accident and that everything is happening to awaken us to our full strength and wisdom, to show us where we're out of alignment. I don't think there's a hair out of place in the world, but that's just me. So the question becomes: is this all I needed from this, or am I up for more?
I grew up going to AA meetings with my mum, and I have always considered that a huge blessing. Because a sober alcoholic who is really active in their program and has had a true transformation via HP? THE BEST kind of person you could ever hope to meet: humble, warm, unconditionally loving, shining with the gifts of their soul, beautifully intelligent, astute, just awesome. They're like people who have been battered into holiness by their life path. A sober, healthy alcoholic has not just sobered up and gone back to being a 'normal' person, they seem to transform into human version 2.0 - they are special. They've learned. Something amazing has woken up inside them. They're super wise and lovely to be around. The same is true, in my experience, of veterans of Alanon. Those guys showed me what I could aspire to be, even when I was small. I think the path of alcoholism has huge gifts and potentials as well as all the obvious risks.
Cannot convey how inspired by sober healthy alcoholics I have been in my life - they showed me that on the other side of all this, can be awesomeness. One guy I know in particular would just be the most ideal husband imaginable. But he and his wife and kids have traversed the drinking, the denial, both their lunacy, the dry drunk episodes, the relapse, the sobriety, more relapses - you know what I'm saying? It's a rocky road without any assured outcome. The reality of alcoholism is brutal.
I also met many 'dry drunks' in those meetings who were very unwell and distorted. Many of the posts you see around here are relating to alcoholics like that.
So, frustratingly for you, there isn't a straight answer because it isn't black and white.
Literally the only advice I could say is:
1. what are your instincts telling you?
2. show up to Alanon meetings and learn, learn, learn. Even if you don't stay with him, you were attracted to this type of personality for a reason. Find out why.
3. You're very aware and proactive. You're noticing yourself worrying about your behavior causing relapse, and you're noticing that this isn't healthy. Can you see how this patterns ends up with us totally controlled by the alcoholic we love, because we live in fear of causing them to drink? Or we make it our mission to keep them sober? Many of us don't notice that until it is entrenched within us and we've completely lost the plot. Stay smart, stay honest, stay aware, read some of the Alanon slogans, arm yourself with knowledge then take your time in making your decision.
4. There isn't a nice way out of this. Both decisions are crap and both will have great consequences and uncomfortable consequences. Just got to be true to you, I think.
MissM said
Jan 14, 2017
I don't think anything you say or do will cause him to maintain sobriety/relapse/anything else. People tend to choose their own lessons and often unconsciously "set up" the path they want to take -for example, it's completely possible that the times when you have argued and your guy has "relapsed because of it" he's unconsciously set up the argument so that he could relapse and have an excuse for it...in fact I think that most people "set up" situations like that sometimes without being aware of it or admitting it to themselves. "He started a fight so he could drink" is something I hear often in al-anon and have experienced. It could be the case (and it also could not). The bottom line is, you can't know someone else's mind or motivations and you can't be responsible for them either. You can only be responsible for you, and your own serenity. Which is good news, really.
He will decide what he wants and what he will do and I personally don't think you have any right or obligation to worry about how he works his program or what his program advises or any of it. What matters is, how do you feel in the relationship, are your needs being met, is it what you want? If you feel that it is, then you're quite entitled to leave him to his program, sobriety etc and let his behavior speak rather than what you "think he should be doing". Al-anon is about letting go of trying to influence what another does and focusing on ourselves and our needs. If he isn't telling you that your relationship is interfering with his program then I'd say it's not something for you to worry about. And if you are worried all the time anyway, then that's the part al-anon can help you with (why are you worried, how can you best find serenity etc). That's what I would start with
Hi guys....
I feel like my story is a bit complicated, and I don't want to completely lose you in the details. Let's just say I met a guy the past July online and we sort of fell into something neither of us expected or was looking for. He told me early on that he was an alcoholic, and he was currently off his AA program. The second week we knew each other he went back to AA and he has been working the program since then. He has relapsed three times since, each for one day. I only found out a few months in that people who are newly sober are not supposed to start relationships. I was a little irritated when he told me this, as he didn't warn me from the beginning. He feels that it doesn't really count for him because he's done AA with some success (?) in the past two years.
I struggle with this. Deep down I do feel like we probably should not be anything more than friends because some of those relapses happened after we had disagreements and I blame myself for the result. Also, it scares me that if one day I do decide we should not be in a relationship because of his new sobriety, that the decision will make him drink again.
I'm so confused. I love him but I want sobriety and health for him more than anything. He thinks that I am good for him and good support, but I just don't know. Especially lately because I feel like he barely has time for me with all his AA stuff. I have guilt because I know AA is priority, but there are selfish moments when I wish he gave me more attention and time. Not to mention I do feel like I hold a lot of things in for fear of upsetting him. I think it's making me very resentful and I need to fix this before it becomes a disaster.
Sorry I'm a mess....
We do not give advice in Al-Anon - instead we go to Al-Anon meetings and share our own experience, strength and hope (ESH) with each other. This allows each of us our own journey and the ability to apply suggested program tools to our own circumstances and situation.
I do encourage you to go to a meeting/two to understand the blessings and curses of living with one you love that is affected by the disease. It's a difficult journey and without support, we can become as insane as they do. Early relationships are difficult for 'earth people' - the disease adds a bit more confusion and complexity for sure...
We do learn in Al-Anon the three C(s) which really helped me when I was starting out - 1. We did not cause it (the relapse, the drinking, the insanity, the disease), 2. We can not cure it and 3. We can not control it.
Please keep coming back - there is hope and help in recovery!!
Ok, my mistake I guess. I read some posts before joining and posting my own and it seemed like people were discussing their issues and others were giving tips, encouragement and yes..even advice from their own personal experiences.
Kind of depressing to pour your heart out and be told this isn't the place for it, but thanks for clearing it up.
If you took personally anything I said, my apologies. I'll step away and we shall see if others have better suggestions for you....
Aloha Olivia and welcome to the board and family. After reading your post I am comfortable that you belong here and are looking for the same consequences we have been since finding the program. Do not run off, that would be much to early; there is so much to listen to and learn and you are being affected by this most cunning, powerful and baffling disease. I was born into it and didn't approach the doors of recovery for 37 years and at that time I was done for. There wasn't much left of me mind, body, spirit and emotions and by habit all I was doing was the same things over and over again expecting different results which I found out in the fellowship, later on was the definition of Insanity. I was insane I knew it and my relationships so very often were with alcoholics and addicts...they were what was "normal" to me and I didn't know and didn't know that I didn't know it. Today I know it and the largest part of the knowing it was what I have learned as a member of the recovering communities of Al-Anon and AA.
I relate to what you have said here cause I have done that also expecting different results...and not getting anything different and more time to wonder about new ways I could have the same type of relationship on different. Never happen....ever. I thought I "LOVE" them only to find out it wasn't love but addiction of my own, what a wide eyed realization that became ...I was practicing my own addiction and the disease owned me. I tried everything I could to keep sick relationships going for the wrong reasons telling everyone it was love. I didn't know that breaking the relationship took much more power and effort and reality than I had at that time regardless than how bad things got.
Stick around and keep and open mind...ask questions and follow the leads and suggestions....more is coming....much more. (((((hugs)))))
Hello Olivia, welcome, alcoholism is a chronic, progressive, fatal disease that can be arrested and never cured. We are powerless over this disease and that is the reason that nobody can really give you advice is to the question if you should stay in the relationship or not. All we can suggest is that if you are in a relationship with someone who is an alcoholic, then there is a program for family members called Al-Anon that can help you decide .
Face to face meetings are held in most comminities and here I was given constructive tools to live by while I took the time to make my own decisions. In Al-Anon we believe that we are all capable of making decisions,once we are able to develop new tools to reinforce our self-esteem and self-worth and trust a power greater than ourselves.
There is hope and help so please keep coming back
It's hard to say if your bloke is or isn't ready for a relationship or if this relationship is or isn't right for either of you. Only HP knows that for sure, in my opinion. AA can give guidelines and they don't say this stuff for fun - it is hard won wisdom of direct experience and should be respected. If they say 12 months it is for good reason. Most alcoholics believe the guidelines don't apply to them because they are unique and different somehow and resent being told what to do - this is part of the personality. AA is often regarded as life or death stuff by those who have lived it long enough to take it seriously. Your guy doesn't have 12 months sobriety, that simple. It's probably wise in theory to defer to the advice of those whose business it is to live and study this disease through direct experience, like AA does. But translating that to real life is not straight forward! Because you love him etc. This is a hard situation to be in, and it is a sliding doors moment in your life. Two paths ahead of you, one with him, one without, and I'd hazard a guess that each of those paths will bring very different learning and experience and transformation to you :)
When you take into account that he is active in AA again now and trying, it would be arrogant of any of us to attempt to predict what he will do now as far as maintaining sobriety or not. He may never drink again. If either he or you thinks that will depend on anything you say or do or don't do, you're both misguided. Life has surprised me too many times for me to be happy to say much with total conviction, however there are patterns that are consistent with alcoholism.
I can say with certainty that this is right for you right now, because it is what is happening. My personal belief is that nothing is by accident and that everything is happening to awaken us to our full strength and wisdom, to show us where we're out of alignment. I don't think there's a hair out of place in the world, but that's just me. So the question becomes: is this all I needed from this, or am I up for more?
I grew up going to AA meetings with my mum, and I have always considered that a huge blessing. Because a sober alcoholic who is really active in their program and has had a true transformation via HP? THE BEST kind of person you could ever hope to meet: humble, warm, unconditionally loving, shining with the gifts of their soul, beautifully intelligent, astute, just awesome. They're like people who have been battered into holiness by their life path. A sober, healthy alcoholic has not just sobered up and gone back to being a 'normal' person, they seem to transform into human version 2.0 - they are special. They've learned. Something amazing has woken up inside them. They're super wise and lovely to be around. The same is true, in my experience, of veterans of Alanon. Those guys showed me what I could aspire to be, even when I was small. I think the path of alcoholism has huge gifts and potentials as well as all the obvious risks.
Cannot convey how inspired by sober healthy alcoholics I have been in my life - they showed me that on the other side of all this, can be awesomeness. One guy I know in particular would just be the most ideal husband imaginable. But he and his wife and kids have traversed the drinking, the denial, both their lunacy, the dry drunk episodes, the relapse, the sobriety, more relapses - you know what I'm saying? It's a rocky road without any assured outcome. The reality of alcoholism is brutal.
I also met many 'dry drunks' in those meetings who were very unwell and distorted. Many of the posts you see around here are relating to alcoholics like that.
So, frustratingly for you, there isn't a straight answer because it isn't black and white.
Literally the only advice I could say is:
1. what are your instincts telling you?
2. show up to Alanon meetings and learn, learn, learn. Even if you don't stay with him, you were attracted to this type of personality for a reason. Find out why.
3. You're very aware and proactive. You're noticing yourself worrying about your behavior causing relapse, and you're noticing that this isn't healthy. Can you see how this patterns ends up with us totally controlled by the alcoholic we love, because we live in fear of causing them to drink? Or we make it our mission to keep them sober? Many of us don't notice that until it is entrenched within us and we've completely lost the plot. Stay smart, stay honest, stay aware, read some of the Alanon slogans, arm yourself with knowledge then take your time in making your decision.
4. There isn't a nice way out of this. Both decisions are crap and both will have great consequences and uncomfortable consequences. Just got to be true to you, I think.
He will decide what he wants and what he will do and I personally don't think you have any right or obligation to worry about how he works his program or what his program advises or any of it. What matters is, how do you feel in the relationship, are your needs being met, is it what you want? If you feel that it is, then you're quite entitled to leave him to his program, sobriety etc and let his behavior speak rather than what you "think he should be doing". Al-anon is about letting go of trying to influence what another does and focusing on ourselves and our needs. If he isn't telling you that your relationship is interfering with his program then I'd say it's not something for you to worry about. And if you are worried all the time anyway, then that's the part al-anon can help you with (why are you worried, how can you best find serenity etc). That's what I would start with