hello.. here I am back with some more venting! I am not expecting "advice" but maybe some points of view from people how have been there. so the boyfriend of 5 five years, finally started AA and in the last three months has gone to AAA and sincerely wants to change his life, which is an amazing thing and I know in time he will succeed as he is very determined. he has had a few slips but all in all he still goes back and is learning a lot. up till now though he has been a pretty bad binge drinker. I know through some of his friends that he wasn't being quite honest with me in the past few years about how often he was actually going to bars but through Al-Anon I pretty much learn to stay on my side of the street so that has helped. unfortunately however I came to find out from a friend of his with no reason to lie that about a year ago my boyfriend was at a bar and hooked up with a bar girl . disgusting I know!! At first he denied it but lately he's just been really quiet and doesn't want to bring it up. My thoughts are even if you have been in a long relationship and your significant other is an early recovery do you look past events that happened prior to their recovery as OK?? I get that he was drunk and when he drinks he He loses all sense of right and wrong but I just am having a difficult time thinking about what he did, drunk or not ! has anyone dealt with this?has anyone separated from their significant other for quite some time in order for that person to continue getting help without your constant presence? I am starting to think this is what I should do even now during this time he may meet someone else and the relationship could end
el-cee said
Jan 13, 2017
Its such a confusing place to be in and Im sorry your in it. I think your asking if you should just forget all the things he did while he was drinking because hes sober now and so maybe it all wont ever happen again and if you bring it up he may get drunk again and so should you just shut up and tip toe around for the sake of sobriety?
I remember having that list of everything my ex ever did while drunk and it played over and over in my mind but then I would be desperate for him to be sober and so I would sweep all that stuff under the carpet and concentrate in being the person he wanted or I thought he needed for him to be sober. His sobriety was my everything, my happiness, my peace of mind, my life really. If he was sober then I would get everything I ever wanted. Its all false and distorted thinking.
Theres also a few big problems with this. That stuff never stayed under the carpet for long because I hadn't worked through it, hadnt got to a place of awareness, acceptance and the action that frees us, forgiveness. So it started to rot and ferment under that carpet and it got bigger with more resentments and more things that I wouldn't acknowledge. This was like poison running through me, it made me feel worthless because not only had I allowed another person to treat me any way they wanted, I never even allowed myself the words to talk about it, work it out, sort through it, so it was self abuse really and it left me with no confidence. This in turn meant I was even more willing to put up with even more bad behaviour because somewhere in this mess I really believed I wasnt worth any more and that I deserved it somehow. I also got to not take responsibility for my own life. It all hinged on another persons sobriety.
Its denial. Its not living in reality. Its believing he is everything to you. Hes not, hes a person with a disease and its probably unlikely he can be what you want or give you what you want for a very long time if ever. I suggest working on separating yourself mentally from him. His sobriety and journey whether slipping or not is his business completely. Your own recovery, mental sobriety and journey are yours and dont depend on the actions of any other human being.
The facts you have are hes an alcoholic, he has cheated, he doesnt treat you very well, hes been abusive to you, he doesnt respect you or value you in the way you would like and this isnt because hes a bad guy, hes a sick guy and these behaviours often go hand in hand. This doesnt mean you put your life on hold and wait until he gets better, this may never happen and your not getting any younger with all the waiting. Also what are you waiting on? Why have you put all your eggs in one basket? There are reasons or symptoms that you need to treat through your own program of recovery. Keep going to meetings, as many as you can, work the steps pronto or chose to stay in the merrygoround and hopefully you will get sick and tired of it.
Mcat54 said
Jan 13, 2017
It occurs to me that we never know 100 percent what anyone is doing or has done. More is revealed at times, and we get to decide what to do with the info. As I reflect on the choices I've made prior to and during the marriage which I have chosen to end, I see that a series of small decisions brought me to this place. In total, if I was presented with them all at once, the choice to stay away would have been clear. Do you want to be married to someone who (insert long list of behaviors that I find unacceptable but talked myself into being ok with, one instance at a time)? It's like boiling a frog by gradually turning up the heat.
For me, it is time to jump out of the pot on the stove. I met my spouse eight years ago, been married for six. I don't want to keep waiting for the next surprise or disaster or disappointment. Thanks to the program, I've learned not to live in fear. I've also learned that I'm important, and I can't make decisions or place my well-being in the hands of someone I don't trust, who isn't transparent, who makes excuses, who's perpetually innocent, who isn't accountable for his behavior and who can't talk about feelings or respect my boundaries. And who says he isn't using pot anymore but still shows signs and doesn't understand why simply not passing out in his chair at night from drinking doesn't count as being "available" in our relationship.
Not easy, though. That's why I'm writing this in our guest room at 4 a.m. When I was younger, I wanted so much to be married, as I was single for 18 years. I'm 54. Will be 55 by the time divorce is final. I have never been more excited about being by myself. Aerin, I'm sending you prayers and hugs.
PS: I took a quick couple of days away at a lakeside B&B last week. Read, journaled, went for walks, etc. Definitely will do again. Great to get away and regain some perspective and a sense of myself without the AH around.
a4l said
Jan 13, 2017
Sorry to hear of what you're going through. It sucks. Elcee and Mcat said everything well. I'd add that the toll it takes on ones self worth is really not worth it. Do you have kids? Why can't you let him go? I put all my eggs in one basket and only now am I looking at parole from this prison of a relationship thanks to alanon and paid employment and kids starting school. We did seperate states.....it was good for my mental health. I reached a stage of not caring anymore what or who he did. Stopped seeing him as much more than human. No longer the romantic fantasy of the two of us. Stages. It all comes in stages. Its so much more than just the actual drinking. Keep attending to your needs. Hugs love.
-- Edited by a4l on Friday 13th of January 2017 06:23:11 AM
Aerin said
Jan 13, 2017
Every time I come here I get good perspectives on things, especially on my own self woth and respect which has been altered by an alcoholic. I ask questions to learn so thank you to anyone who responds. Also to answer a question, we have no kids together but each have one from prior marriages. And we do not live together. We are in mid 40s too. What do I get out of staying? Working on that one for awhile now. Maybe because I had been married 15yrs before this 5yr relationship and I left my husband to "find" myself (big mistake) so now I feel like I can't leave him while he is trying now and loves me. I know a lot of you get it, whereas people who don't have addiction issues in relationships might not
Iamhere said
Jan 13, 2017
(((Aerin))) - I believe there is no shame in loving an alcoholic.....where I suffered the most is in valuing the love for others more than the love for self. I'm a huge fan of risks too so whether you stay or go - your life and your choice. One thing that did help me tremendously when I got stuck on past events was to read a ton about acceptance and one day at a time. I am one who does believe the disease brings out the worst in all of us.
Working on me gave me the confidence to forgive others for things I would never have been able to accept/forgive before recovery. I am one who in my 20(s) suggested that I'd walk out immediately if anybody cheated on me. Well - I would never consider that acceptable behavior, but know through life experience that no action is an end-all/be-all for the future. We all have done things we regret. We all have done things we wish we could take back. Life is life and nobody is perfect - what helps me is not what I have done or what's been done to me but how I have survived in spite of all we've been through.
(((Hugs))) - chin up - to bring it up here is a great way to begin the healing. Whether you stay/go, the pain of knowing is the same....
el-cee said
Jan 13, 2017
That was a beautiful replyou iamhere. I wish I had said that or felt that. Your right there is no shame in loving an alcoholic and in fact it's those who can work a brilliant program while living with it day in and still having love and compassion it's these people I so admire. My recovery seems to be like waves where sometimes I have the love and compassion and actually am thankful for the disease as it brought me to recovery. Other times I am ashamed that I stayed for 20 yrs, damaged my kids and spent 20 yrs in complete and utter denial of the truth. I would love to say to someone whose not in too deep like you a erin, run get out. I know better though because unfortunately without some self love amd spirituality then it can be dysfunctional relationship after dysfunctional relationship. It's a hellish disease.
a4l said
Jan 13, 2017
I get it Aerin. I have fears too. Fears of abandonment, of being a single mother again, of being alone. Strangely, I am all of those things in this addiction dominated situation. You sound like a really lovely person in your posts. Wishing you lots of kindness today.
el-cee said
Jan 14, 2017
Fear of abandonment is a big one in alcoholism. It drives me to people please because of a deep rooted fear of people leaving me. I've got to work alanon because I want to or need to get to the place where I'm happy with me and don't need anyone to fulfil my needs so people in my life are a happy free addition and have no responsibility to fill my empty holes. Thank you for the topic aerin its been helpful for me to look at my own fears that still linger x
milkwood said
Jan 14, 2017
((((Aerin)))))
I came to distrust my husband after he cheated on me and I find it quite difficult to be trusting again. I would like to and I need to work on myself, to learn to trust in myself enough to take a risk on him again but in the meantime my instincts are keeping him at a distance and I think that is the same for him as well. I wonder if we need to learn to trust ourselves a bit more first so that we will deal with whatever comes up in the future in ways that work better for each of us.
With regards to getting myself out of the way so that my husband can deal with his recovery, well I'm doing exactly that - but I think that it is more for me, taking the space I need to deal with my own recovery as well as doing something that boosts my own self esteem. That seems important for me at the moment. I have never been to university and so now, after having worked for others for thirty five years, here I am, on campus! This is bringing me into to contact with a new group of people. It means that I have my own place to stay during term time and I am learning so much!! I am also learning to recognise and enjoy the peace that I enjoy in my own space. I feel very lucky and a little bit proud of myself for having taken such a bold step, just for me!!
I'm not sure if this is relevant to you but I am also beginning to get a sense of my own values and worth. If someone wants to share in my life, and I feel the same way about them, then I would like it to be an enhancing experience. I am not the only one responsible for making that kind of relationship work. I need that other person to want to be with me and care for us as well. If they can not do that, that is ok, we are each as we are after all! However if a relationship does not feel comfortable, I'm not going to wait around and try to fix everything on my own. My time on this earth is valuable to me, it really is all that I have, and there are things that I still want to do. For example, I would like to enjoy honest intimacy and trust in another human being! I have, for way too long, gotten in my own way of creating the space to let that happen!!!
I'm not sure if any of this makes sense, but it is how I feel at the moment!
CaptainC said
Jan 14, 2017
Confusion reigns. Al-anon will help get your mind clear. Denial is from both sides of the relationship. False hope is what we witness in your story. It's ok to linger there, and much more fun without the drama and confusion, and it is accessible. Work the program, do good things for yourself. I have taken classes that create a better me at community colleges, that have helped me get relationship perspective and self worth from another angle, while also attending al-anon regularly. Reaching out is what you've done and good for you! The sky is blue, the moon is full, the stars come out, and life goes on.
hello.. here I am back with some more venting! I am not expecting "advice" but maybe some points of view from people how have been there. so the boyfriend of 5 five years, finally started AA and in the last three months has gone to AAA and sincerely wants to change his life, which is an amazing thing and I know in time he will succeed as he is very determined. he has had a few slips but all in all he still goes back and is learning a lot. up till now though he has been a pretty bad binge drinker. I know through some of his friends that he wasn't being quite honest with me in the past few years about how often he was actually going to bars but through Al-Anon I pretty much learn to stay on my side of the street so that has helped. unfortunately however I came to find out from a friend of his with no reason to lie that about a year ago my boyfriend was at a bar and hooked up with a bar girl . disgusting I know!! At first he denied it but lately he's just been really quiet and doesn't want to bring it up. My thoughts are even if you have been in a long relationship and your significant other is an early recovery do you look past events that happened prior to their recovery as OK?? I get that he was drunk and when he drinks he He loses all sense of right and wrong but I just am having a difficult time thinking about what he did, drunk or not ! has anyone dealt with this?has anyone separated from their significant other for quite some time in order for that person to continue getting help without your constant presence? I am starting to think this is what I should do even now during this time he may meet someone else and the relationship could end
Its such a confusing place to be in and Im sorry your in it. I think your asking if you should just forget all the things he did while he was drinking because hes sober now and so maybe it all wont ever happen again and if you bring it up he may get drunk again and so should you just shut up and tip toe around for the sake of sobriety?
I remember having that list of everything my ex ever did while drunk and it played over and over in my mind but then I would be desperate for him to be sober and so I would sweep all that stuff under the carpet and concentrate in being the person he wanted or I thought he needed for him to be sober. His sobriety was my everything, my happiness, my peace of mind, my life really. If he was sober then I would get everything I ever wanted. Its all false and distorted thinking.
Theres also a few big problems with this. That stuff never stayed under the carpet for long because I hadn't worked through it, hadnt got to a place of awareness, acceptance and the action that frees us, forgiveness. So it started to rot and ferment under that carpet and it got bigger with more resentments and more things that I wouldn't acknowledge. This was like poison running through me, it made me feel worthless because not only had I allowed another person to treat me any way they wanted, I never even allowed myself the words to talk about it, work it out, sort through it, so it was self abuse really and it left me with no confidence. This in turn meant I was even more willing to put up with even more bad behaviour because somewhere in this mess I really believed I wasnt worth any more and that I deserved it somehow. I also got to not take responsibility for my own life. It all hinged on another persons sobriety.
Its denial. Its not living in reality. Its believing he is everything to you. Hes not, hes a person with a disease and its probably unlikely he can be what you want or give you what you want for a very long time if ever. I suggest working on separating yourself mentally from him. His sobriety and journey whether slipping or not is his business completely. Your own recovery, mental sobriety and journey are yours and dont depend on the actions of any other human being.
The facts you have are hes an alcoholic, he has cheated, he doesnt treat you very well, hes been abusive to you, he doesnt respect you or value you in the way you would like and this isnt because hes a bad guy, hes a sick guy and these behaviours often go hand in hand. This doesnt mean you put your life on hold and wait until he gets better, this may never happen and your not getting any younger with all the waiting. Also what are you waiting on? Why have you put all your eggs in one basket? There are reasons or symptoms that you need to treat through your own program of recovery. Keep going to meetings, as many as you can, work the steps pronto or chose to stay in the merrygoround and hopefully you will get sick and tired of it.
For me, it is time to jump out of the pot on the stove. I met my spouse eight years ago, been married for six. I don't want to keep waiting for the next surprise or disaster or disappointment. Thanks to the program, I've learned not to live in fear. I've also learned that I'm important, and I can't make decisions or place my well-being in the hands of someone I don't trust, who isn't transparent, who makes excuses, who's perpetually innocent, who isn't accountable for his behavior and who can't talk about feelings or respect my boundaries. And who says he isn't using pot anymore but still shows signs and doesn't understand why simply not passing out in his chair at night from drinking doesn't count as being "available" in our relationship.
Not easy, though. That's why I'm writing this in our guest room at 4 a.m. When I was younger, I wanted so much to be married, as I was single for 18 years. I'm 54. Will be 55 by the time divorce is final. I have never been more excited about being by myself. Aerin, I'm sending you prayers and hugs.
PS: I took a quick couple of days away at a lakeside B&B last week. Read, journaled, went for walks, etc. Definitely will do again. Great to get away and regain some perspective and a sense of myself without the AH around.
Sorry to hear of what you're going through. It sucks. Elcee and Mcat said everything well. I'd add that the toll it takes on ones self worth is really not worth it. Do you have kids? Why can't you let him go? I put all my eggs in one basket and only now am I looking at parole from this prison of a relationship thanks to alanon and paid employment and kids starting school. We did seperate states.....it was good for my mental health. I reached a stage of not caring anymore what or who he did. Stopped seeing him as much more than human. No longer the romantic fantasy of the two of us. Stages. It all comes in stages. Its so much more than just the actual drinking. Keep attending to your needs. Hugs love.
-- Edited by a4l on Friday 13th of January 2017 06:23:11 AM
Every time I come here I get good perspectives on things, especially on my own self woth and respect which has been altered by an alcoholic. I ask questions to learn so thank you to anyone who responds. Also to answer a question, we have no kids together but each have one from prior marriages. And we do not live together. We are in mid 40s too. What do I get out of staying? Working on that one for awhile now. Maybe because I had been married 15yrs before this 5yr relationship and I left my husband to "find" myself (big mistake) so now I feel like I can't leave him while he is trying now and loves me. I know a lot of you get it, whereas people who don't have addiction issues in relationships might not
Working on me gave me the confidence to forgive others for things I would never have been able to accept/forgive before recovery. I am one who in my 20(s) suggested that I'd walk out immediately if anybody cheated on me. Well - I would never consider that acceptable behavior, but know through life experience that no action is an end-all/be-all for the future. We all have done things we regret. We all have done things we wish we could take back. Life is life and nobody is perfect - what helps me is not what I have done or what's been done to me but how I have survived in spite of all we've been through.
(((Hugs))) - chin up - to bring it up here is a great way to begin the healing. Whether you stay/go, the pain of knowing is the same....
I came to distrust my husband after he cheated on me and I find it quite difficult to be trusting again. I would like to and I need to work on myself, to learn to trust in myself enough to take a risk on him again but in the meantime my instincts are keeping him at a distance and I think that is the same for him as well. I wonder if we need to learn to trust ourselves a bit more first so that we will deal with whatever comes up in the future in ways that work better for each of us.
With regards to getting myself out of the way so that my husband can deal with his recovery, well I'm doing exactly that - but I think that it is more for me, taking the space I need to deal with my own recovery as well as doing something that boosts my own self esteem. That seems important for me at the moment. I have never been to university and so now, after having worked for others for thirty five years, here I am, on campus! This is bringing me into to contact with a new group of people. It means that I have my own place to stay during term time and I am learning so much!! I am also learning to recognise and enjoy the peace that I enjoy in my own space. I feel very lucky and a little bit proud of myself for having taken such a bold step, just for me!!
I'm not sure if this is relevant to you but I am also beginning to get a sense of my own values and worth. If someone wants to share in my life, and I feel the same way about them, then I would like it to be an enhancing experience. I am not the only one responsible for making that kind of relationship work. I need that other person to want to be with me and care for us as well. If they can not do that, that is ok, we are each as we are after all! However if a relationship does not feel comfortable, I'm not going to wait around and try to fix everything on my own. My time on this earth is valuable to me, it really is all that I have, and there are things that I still want to do. For example, I would like to enjoy honest intimacy and trust in another human being! I have, for way too long, gotten in my own way of creating the space to let that happen!!!
I'm not sure if any of this makes sense, but it is how I feel at the moment!
Confusion reigns. Al-anon will help get your mind clear. Denial is from both sides of the relationship. False hope is what we witness in your story. It's ok to linger there, and much more fun without the drama and confusion, and it is accessible. Work the program, do good things for yourself. I have taken classes that create a better me at community colleges, that have helped me get relationship perspective and self worth from another angle, while also attending al-anon regularly. Reaching out is what you've done and good for you! The sky is blue, the moon is full, the stars come out, and life goes on.