I still cannot grasp why the A is a very selfish person. Even as a dry drunk I still see the selfishness. He sees me as "not letting him do what he wants"??. There is only one thing that he doesn't do right now and that is drink! ( technically 90 days in the program but has slipped up maybe 5-8x that I know of, he still picked up his 90 day chip which imo he shouldn't have but thats's his choice) At times I almost preferred the drinking version to this woe is me dry person!)
muggs2 said
Jan 1, 2017
Hello Aerin - I too, lived with a dry drunk, who spottily attended the program.
As part of my recovery, I occasionally attend f2f open AA meetings where I find a great deal of wisdom in understanding the disease. At one such meeting, a long-time member said: "When you sober up a horse thief - he's still a horse thief."
Happy New Year to you in the program, Aerin.
Lyne said
Jan 1, 2017
Happy New Year! My A spouse has cut down her drinking frequency, and amount, but the illness is so pervasive that the alcoholic personality took over the person I knew 25 years ago. She lies, sneaks, calls me controlling, is out of control is several areas, is self-destructive on many levels, and really is not in the reality I live in. Denial is huge for her, and she has great difficulty seeing herself. I guess I should throw blaming others in there as well.
What I have learned in Alanon is to have no expectations, the 3 C's come to mind often, I accept I am powerless , and by my 3 and a half years in program, I have learned to be a happy person much of the time. My codepency is lessened, and I actually can say I love myself after 65 years of horrible self-esteem and self-loathing. I have a new and better life, so I just encourage you to continue with program and get yourself more healthy. Then you can deal with the rest. ODAT, right? Lyne
Enigmatic said
Jan 1, 2017
Hi Aerin...something that AlAnon has helped me realize is that I never feel better when I am focusing on the negative behavior of others. When I do, I tend only to get more resentful, frustrated, and self righteous. My peace and serenity dive no matter how accurate or justified I feel I am in my assessment.
The fundamental concept in AlAnon is that progress in recovery comes by turning our focus to ourselves. I found that for every negative trait I identified in my qualifier, I had one that I hadn't recognized or one that I excused because of my qualifier's behavior. Important to note, too, is that alcoholics are not the only people who can demonstrate unpleasant behavior.
The C2C readings for 12-29 and 12-30, also shared here on the board, really helped my perspective on this topic. As Lyne and so many others here have learned and shared, the program has great wisdom and can guide us through these difficult times. Hang in there and keep working the program
andromeda said
Jan 1, 2017
I was married to a dry drunk for 15 years until he started actively drinking again and then I divorced him. I have to admit that he was sometimes easier to deal with when he was drunk than when he was dry. I completely understand. As Lyne has said, you are powerless over how he chooses to see the world and how he acts or responds to it. Take really good care of yourself and hang in there! Sending you lots of hugs and support!
Overcome said
Jan 1, 2017
Aerin wrote:
technically 90 days in the program
I think the key here is that he has only "90 days". The other key is to focus only you, not the alcoholic. Easier said than done, I know; but it is still key. Now back to the "90 day" thing. I think I've heard in these rooms that the alcoholic stops maturing at the age he was when he started drinking, so if he started drinking when he was in his teens, then he is only a teenager in his thinking. Another thing I have heard is that it took many years to get to where they are at (and this goes for us too) and it will take just as long in recovery to get well... and not that we ever "arrive" anyway, it's Progress Not Perfection, in both programs.
Now to address the "Dry Drunk" Syndrome. You are right, it's a real thing and a boss that I had that went through rehabilitation was like this for a good year before I saw him turn a corner. My 4th alcoholic husband was a dry drunk, never went to AA or any 12-step program. (Yes, I married into this disease 4 times. I'm a slow learner. LOL) Here's a few facts about Dry Drunks:
As Stated by The Kenneth Peters Center for Recovery, a Dry Drunk consist of these traits:
Exaggerated self-importance and pomposity
Grandiose behavior
A rigid, judgmental outlook
Impatience
Childish behavior
Irresponsible behavior
Irrational rationalization
Projection
Over-reaction
"A dry drunk is someone who exhibits alcoholic behaviors and thinking but has not actually had any alcohol. A dry drunk displays the same signs and symptoms as an alcoholic, such as denial, anger, resentment, and spiritual and emotional immaturity." Angie Lewis
Quote from the article Counter Punch: "They are not at peace with themselves. They need some kind of inner healing. Drinking wasn't the problem, drinking was the solution. Their solution to their mental anxiety, fear, panic attacks, mistrust, insecurity. Sense a dry drunk doesn't medicate his feelings with alcohol, he suffers needlessly every day of his life. This is not necessary if they would seek God for their life challenges. Total sobriety is having healthy body, mind, and soul."
(Sorry for all the "edits" I'm trying to figure out how to do a "quote". I thought I knew, but guess not! LOL)
-- Edited by Overcome on Sunday 1st of January 2017 01:57:15 PM
-- Edited by Overcome on Sunday 1st of January 2017 02:27:01 PM
-- Edited by Overcome on Sunday 1st of January 2017 02:30:35 PM
Calm Lady said
Jan 1, 2017
I find AH must easier to live with when he daily drinks his fill.
He quit for nine months a while ago. White knuckling with no program. It was hell for both of us. We were both relieved when he picked up drink again.
Iamhere said
Jan 1, 2017
I've said it before, so I'll say it again.....I'm not much for labels. That's just a me thing as whenever I am focused outside of myself, on another person, place or thing - I feel my serenity and program are threatened. Having said this, early recovery is difficult for all - Alcoholics and Al-Anoner's. I see 'me' in each of those items before I found Al-Anon. Perhaps it was in response to the behavior of my qualifier, perhaps it was in response to the insanity of the disease....perhaps, just as my qualifiers, my maturity was stunted when the disease rose up.
What recovery has taught me is all I can control is me, my thoughts, my actions and my reactions. Counting sober days for my qualifiers, or focusing on their last dry day or their last drunk distracts me from my own joy, serenity and what God has put in front of me today. In my home, the more I worked on me and learned how to stop reacting and respond differently, the better it got. We never fight any more as most of our fights were a result of me trying to cure, change, direct, control or fix another or their 'stuff'.
Left to their own devices, they will either recover or not. Al-Anon has shown me that what I do or stop doing or threaten to do has no true affect on the disease - they have to want recovery for themselves - not wives, children, moms, dads, etc. Hitting bottom doesn't happen when I intervene - slow learner but realistic now.
For all the research that can be done about dry drunks, recovery percentages, relapse reasons, etc. there are equal sources that will be contrary. Many still believe it's a moral choice vs. a disease. While we always get to 'take what we like and leave the rest', it's been spoken, shared, written, and suggested time and time again that our best chance at recovery is to keep the focus on us and not them.
Speaking as a recovering alcoholic, I can still be those things in that list. It may have nothing to do with my disease - I may be sick, in pain, grieving, etc. There are too many variables that are unique in each of us to ever truly know the mind, heart and soul of another person - sick or not - we can only find, grow and repair our own mind, heart and soul.
I still cannot grasp why the A is a very selfish person. Even as a dry drunk I still see the selfishness. He sees me as "not letting him do what he wants"??. There is only one thing that he doesn't do right now and that is drink! ( technically 90 days in the program but has slipped up maybe 5-8x that I know of, he still picked up his 90 day chip which imo he shouldn't have but thats's his choice) At times I almost preferred the drinking version to this woe is me dry person!)
As part of my recovery, I occasionally attend f2f open AA meetings where I find a great deal of wisdom in understanding the disease. At one such meeting, a long-time member said: "When you sober up a horse thief - he's still a horse thief."
Happy New Year to you in the program, Aerin.
What I have learned in Alanon is to have no expectations, the 3 C's come to mind often, I accept I am powerless , and by my 3 and a half years in program, I have learned to be a happy person much of the time. My codepency is lessened, and I actually can say I love myself after 65 years of horrible self-esteem and self-loathing. I have a new and better life, so I just encourage you to continue with program and get yourself more healthy. Then you can deal with the rest. ODAT, right? Lyne
The fundamental concept in AlAnon is that progress in recovery comes by turning our focus to ourselves. I found that for every negative trait I identified in my qualifier, I had one that I hadn't recognized or one that I excused because of my qualifier's behavior. Important to note, too, is that alcoholics are not the only people who can demonstrate unpleasant behavior.
The C2C readings for 12-29 and 12-30, also shared here on the board, really helped my perspective on this topic. As Lyne and so many others here have learned and shared, the program has great wisdom and can guide us through these difficult times. Hang in there and keep working the program
I think the key here is that he has only "90 days". The other key is to focus only you, not the alcoholic. Easier said than done, I know; but it is still key. Now back to the "90 day" thing. I think I've heard in these rooms that the alcoholic stops maturing at the age he was when he started drinking, so if he started drinking when he was in his teens, then he is only a teenager in his thinking. Another thing I have heard is that it took many years to get to where they are at (and this goes for us too) and it will take just as long in recovery to get well... and not that we ever "arrive" anyway, it's Progress Not Perfection, in both programs.
Now to address the "Dry Drunk" Syndrome. You are right, it's a real thing and a boss that I had that went through rehabilitation was like this for a good year before I saw him turn a corner. My 4th alcoholic husband was a dry drunk, never went to AA or any 12-step program. (Yes, I married into this disease 4 times. I'm a slow learner. LOL) Here's a few facts about Dry Drunks:
As Stated by The Kenneth Peters Center for Recovery, a Dry Drunk consist of these traits:
"A dry drunk is someone who exhibits alcoholic behaviors and thinking but has not actually had any alcohol. A dry drunk displays the same signs and symptoms as an alcoholic, such as denial, anger, resentment, and spiritual and emotional immaturity." Angie Lewis
Quote from the article Counter Punch: "They are not at peace with themselves. They need some kind of inner healing. Drinking wasn't the problem, drinking was the solution. Their solution to their mental anxiety, fear, panic attacks, mistrust, insecurity. Sense a dry drunk doesn't medicate his feelings with alcohol, he suffers needlessly every day of his life. This is not necessary if they would seek God for their life challenges. Total sobriety is having healthy body, mind, and soul."
(Sorry for all the "edits" I'm trying to figure out how to do a "quote". I thought I knew, but guess not! LOL)
-- Edited by Overcome on Sunday 1st of January 2017 01:57:15 PM
-- Edited by Overcome on Sunday 1st of January 2017 02:27:01 PM
-- Edited by Overcome on Sunday 1st of January 2017 02:30:35 PM
He quit for nine months a while ago. White knuckling with no program. It was hell for both of us. We were both relieved when he picked up drink again.
What recovery has taught me is all I can control is me, my thoughts, my actions and my reactions. Counting sober days for my qualifiers, or focusing on their last dry day or their last drunk distracts me from my own joy, serenity and what God has put in front of me today. In my home, the more I worked on me and learned how to stop reacting and respond differently, the better it got. We never fight any more as most of our fights were a result of me trying to cure, change, direct, control or fix another or their 'stuff'.
Left to their own devices, they will either recover or not. Al-Anon has shown me that what I do or stop doing or threaten to do has no true affect on the disease - they have to want recovery for themselves - not wives, children, moms, dads, etc. Hitting bottom doesn't happen when I intervene - slow learner but realistic now.
For all the research that can be done about dry drunks, recovery percentages, relapse reasons, etc. there are equal sources that will be contrary. Many still believe it's a moral choice vs. a disease. While we always get to 'take what we like and leave the rest', it's been spoken, shared, written, and suggested time and time again that our best chance at recovery is to keep the focus on us and not them.
Speaking as a recovering alcoholic, I can still be those things in that list. It may have nothing to do with my disease - I may be sick, in pain, grieving, etc. There are too many variables that are unique in each of us to ever truly know the mind, heart and soul of another person - sick or not - we can only find, grow and repair our own mind, heart and soul.