Does anyone struggle with this? My therapist and a close friend just keep focusing on what my qualifier needs. The whole conversation continues to be about "he is so sick" "if he is committed to sobriety he will get into rehab" "he really might be bipolar. He needs serious help."
I get so frustrated because I'm really trying to just handle what IS in my control and none of those things are in my control at all. Makes me just not want to talk to these people because it is absolutely no help to me. Anyone else? I guess that's what al anon is for! <3
SerenityRUS said
Dec 16, 2016
I find that people who have not had recovery do not understand what it's like to deal with some of the drama and trauma that life with an addict can be like, of course he needs rehab and to be committed to sobriety .. LOL .. that's a DUH thing I really like what you said about the issue that you are just trying to handle what IS in your control. That right there will keep you out of the spin of what is not in your control. Maybe it would be a good idea to find someone who is versed in addiction vs a traditional therapist and you may be right that not talking to friends about what's going on is a better answer. What I imagine they see is you are dealing with someone who is very sick. You are very pregnant and they are concerned for your health and well being. It's scary to watch anyone you love be involved with an addict. You are absolutely correct .. that's what alanon is for, keep coming back it really does work. Hugs S :)
Prissykitty said
Dec 16, 2016
Thank you so much serenity. I guess I've been on here a lot if you're beginning to recognize me :-/
I do love my therapist but I think you're absolutely correct. She just isn't knowledgeable in addiction. I find myself turning it back around to myself during session vs my husband. Maybe that's good practice though! Thank you for listening <3
2HP said
Dec 17, 2016
Al-anon is a fellowship of families affected by alcoholism to overcome even the most negative aspects of their lives. In turn, the fellowship extends the hope and help to others.
I have been in your shoes. I went from doctor to doctor, counselor to counselor to help me force solutions onto my husband while I was pregnant with a toddler. I did not know what was actually "wrong" so I did not bother looking for an addiction specialist. today I know that the professionals are just as powerless as the rest of us. A few things I have learned...
Only when an addict is READY to change... until he has hit a bottom... sick and tired of being sick and tired.... hating their lives so much that they cannot live like this any longer... will they be motivated to practice something different.
Only when an al-anoner is READY to change... until she has hit a bottom... sick and tired of being sick and tired... hating their lives so much that they cannot live like this any longer... will they be motivated to practice something different.
We've all tried using an addict to stop our pain and create our happiness. They simply do not hold that key. And I remember telling my sponsor I just wanted her to wave a magic wand to help me feel better... "please, please, please..." my whole life was falling apart. I can still remember her telling me there was no magic wand....
I did not believe I was capable of walking through all the pain, it was so very painful. Yet it was the only way to get to the other side, my friend. I could not count on him to change. and when I took steps to help myself, God reached to help me.
I look forward to your shares about which Al-anon books you have purchased... which you read from most or keep in your car... which slogans are helping you this week etc. etc.... and watching you grow with us because the Al-anon program works. and there's no greater service from my fellow al-anons than when they share how they are taking really good care of themselves.
(((peace))) to you and your family, I am holding you all up in prayer
MissM said
Dec 17, 2016
I found these conversations really unhelpful and frustrating as well and i adopted the habit of saying 'you'll have to ask him" or "you'd have to discuss that with him". To some people (my closer friends/family) I would say "I need to focus on myself; it isn't helpful for me to discuss his problems all the time"..those that were interested in me as a person found that easy enough to understand after a few attempts and I decided that people who couldn't value me as a distinct and separate person from my partner's problems really weren't worth my time so I did in fact stop talking to people who insisted on bringing his problems up all the time. I did find that picking a few basic sentences like I described and repeating them calmly whenever the topic turned to 'what he needed to do" got the message across pretty effectively.
el-cee said
Dec 17, 2016
I used to have that black and white thinking where I believed everything can be fixed quickly and cleanly. He or she just needs to do.... I thought seriously that I had all the answers and if people listened to me then there would be no problems. I also shared my problems with people who couldn't possibly understand or really help. With alcoholism it takes experience to understand. Without the experience there is only limited understanding so any suggestions are likely to be mostly useless and in fact may encourage belief systems that keep us down. My friends would offer me sympathy and this helped me feel even more sorry for myself. As for counsellors and therapists personally I don't see the point. They are never going to be qualified in this unless they have walked the walk and gained enlightenment and spirituality. It was important for me to reach my bottom. I had to suffer enough to become suck of being sick. Doctors therapists psychologists offer relief through drugs or not. Either way relief is the name of the game. Relief was enabling for me and kept me in the disease. It's like offering the drinker tea and sympathy when what they need is hard cold reality. We often need that too.
Neroli said
Dec 17, 2016
Yes. Yes. Yes. This. This. This.
Casual conversations with certain people have become unbearable from the constant suggestions for what he should be doing (that I have no control over) to the oppressive sympathy I get from some people. I like talking to people who are focused enough on their own lives and problems that we can have a dialog. Love talking to my sister who is going though a bad break up or my friend who is just starting a business. We can talk about me, and talk about them. Plus those two understand that I have my own needs/sanity to protect. My friend is an adult child of an alcoholic and member of alanon and my sister "got it" after I explained to her (but it took a few conversations to get her there).
I've been getting the same thing though from addiction specialist therapists. Probably because they are his therapists, so they are more focused on what he needs than what I need. And with an adult child in his twenties who is an addict they are telling me that family support can be an important help. Since I love my son, I try to be supportive while also trying to have some boundaries for my own needs. But it is a tough line to walk. I have not mastered the "wisdom to know the difference" part of the serenity prayer. (Or really, the other parts yet.)
Alanon has been so helpful to me. The people I meet through face-to-face meetings are becoming such an important resource for help in my non-virtual life. And this message board is available whenever I want to sit in front of the computer.
Mcat54 said
Dec 17, 2016
I applaud your own recognition that focusing on what he should/shouldn't be doing isn't positive for you. The program is working. I am still so easily drawn into inventories of my qualifier. I changed therapists several years ago after one told me that I never should have gotten involved with my ex fiancé/alcoholic. NOT HELPFUL. That, and she was falling asleep during our sessions. I think she had apnea, but that's another story. I'd be willing to sit through a "what he needs" convo if that's the purpose of the visit. Good for you to see that you can steer the topic back to what you can control -- your needs. If both of us are taking care of the A, that means no one is taking care of me. I pray daily for discernment and guidance, serenity, HP's will and the power to carry it out and get out of the way. Hugs to you, PK.
Iamhere said
Dec 17, 2016
Hey Prissykitty - I've been there and what the program suggests is that we keep our focus on us - our side of the street.....as I worked the steps, and began to seek my part in the chaos/insanity of the disease, I came to realize that so often many of the well-meaning folks had their own issues and truly were well meaning....yet - they were responding to me and my words and my shares!
It took me a long while to realize that I triggered much of the suggestions and advice by the way I was sharing and processing out loud. With a great sponsor, I began to 'see this' more clearly. As I would begin to discuss an issue with my qualifier, she would ask me over and over again - how do you feel? What can you own? What can you do differently? Why don't you just pray for them? And this went on for a long while. In time, I was retrained to identify the trouble, assess my feelings/my part and then discuss where I was at.
Each time there was a relapse, I was full of fear, anger, anxiety and more. By the time I would call her, I was able to better admit that my qualifier relapsed, and I am sad and afraid for their safety. It took me a long while to see that I processed others actions, words, etc. as a personal attack on me. It was never truly about me - it was about them and their own issues/disease. It was within my insanity that when my qualifier relapsed, I took it personally.
What happened here is when I stopped talking about them and focused on me, so did others. If they slipped, I would say simply - I am totally powerless over them - I'm working on me. I got to a point where I stopped discussing even me to those who were more interested in fixing me/it than supporting and listening to me.
We went through many, many counselors. My experience is if they do not understand addiction, they will not be able to relate to our experience. We once were in family counseling and the counselor suggested I start a hobby or something to help change my focus. For the next 10 years, every time there was friction in the house, one-two or all 3 of my qualifiers would start chanting - you need a hobby - you need a hobby.....well intended suggestions from well-meaning counselors can certainly backfire with the wrong audience!
Lean into your program friends - I have found that nobody, even paid counselors, can offer true support and comfort like another who has walked a mile in similar shoes. (((Hugs))) - stick with the winners as best you can as there are some in recovery who still want to advise and control...
-- Edited by Iamhere on Saturday 17th of December 2016 08:50:29 AM
I find that people who have not had recovery do not understand what it's like to deal with some of the drama and trauma that life with an addict can be like, of course he needs rehab and to be committed to sobriety .. LOL .. that's a DUH thing I really like what you said about the issue that you are just trying to handle what IS in your control. That right there will keep you out of the spin of what is not in your control. Maybe it would be a good idea to find someone who is versed in addiction vs a traditional therapist and you may be right that not talking to friends about what's going on is a better answer. What I imagine they see is you are dealing with someone who is very sick. You are very pregnant and they are concerned for your health and well being. It's scary to watch anyone you love be involved with an addict. You are absolutely correct .. that's what alanon is for, keep coming back it really does work. Hugs S :)
Al-anon is a fellowship of families affected by alcoholism to overcome even the most negative aspects of their lives. In turn, the fellowship extends the hope and help to others.
I have been in your shoes. I went from doctor to doctor, counselor to counselor to help me force solutions onto my husband while I was pregnant with a toddler. I did not know what was actually "wrong" so I did not bother looking for an addiction specialist. today I know that the professionals are just as powerless as the rest of us. A few things I have learned...
Only when an addict is READY to change... until he has hit a bottom... sick and tired of being sick and tired.... hating their lives so much that they cannot live like this any longer... will they be motivated to practice something different.
Only when an al-anoner is READY to change... until she has hit a bottom... sick and tired of being sick and tired... hating their lives so much that they cannot live like this any longer... will they be motivated to practice something different.
We've all tried using an addict to stop our pain and create our happiness. They simply do not hold that key. And I remember telling my sponsor I just wanted her to wave a magic wand to help me feel better... "please, please, please..." my whole life was falling apart. I can still remember her telling me there was no magic wand....
I did not believe I was capable of walking through all the pain, it was so very painful. Yet it was the only way to get to the other side, my friend. I could not count on him to change. and when I took steps to help myself, God reached to help me.
I look forward to your shares about which Al-anon books you have purchased... which you read from most or keep in your car... which slogans are helping you this week etc. etc.... and watching you grow with us because the Al-anon program works. and there's no greater service from my fellow al-anons than when they share how they are taking really good care of themselves.
(((peace))) to you and your family, I am holding you all up in prayer
I found these conversations really unhelpful and frustrating as well and i adopted the habit of saying 'you'll have to ask him" or "you'd have to discuss that with him". To some people (my closer friends/family) I would say "I need to focus on myself; it isn't helpful for me to discuss his problems all the time"..those that were interested in me as a person found that easy enough to understand after a few attempts and I decided that people who couldn't value me as a distinct and separate person from my partner's problems really weren't worth my time so I did in fact stop talking to people who insisted on bringing his problems up all the time. I did find that picking a few basic sentences like I described and repeating them calmly whenever the topic turned to 'what he needed to do" got the message across pretty effectively.
Yes. Yes. Yes. This. This. This.
Casual conversations with certain people have become unbearable from the constant suggestions for what he should be doing (that I have no control over) to the oppressive sympathy I get from some people. I like talking to people who are focused enough on their own lives and problems that we can have a dialog. Love talking to my sister who is going though a bad break up or my friend who is just starting a business. We can talk about me, and talk about them. Plus those two understand that I have my own needs/sanity to protect. My friend is an adult child of an alcoholic and member of alanon and my sister "got it" after I explained to her (but it took a few conversations to get her there).
I've been getting the same thing though from addiction specialist therapists. Probably because they are his therapists, so they are more focused on what he needs than what I need. And with an adult child in his twenties who is an addict they are telling me that family support can be an important help. Since I love my son, I try to be supportive while also trying to have some boundaries for my own needs. But it is a tough line to walk. I have not mastered the "wisdom to know the difference" part of the serenity prayer. (Or really, the other parts yet.)
Alanon has been so helpful to me. The people I meet through face-to-face meetings are becoming such an important resource for help in my non-virtual life. And this message board is available whenever I want to sit in front of the computer.
I applaud your own recognition that focusing on what he should/shouldn't be doing isn't positive for you. The program is working. I am still so easily drawn into inventories of my qualifier. I changed therapists several years ago after one told me that I never should have gotten involved with my ex fiancé/alcoholic. NOT HELPFUL. That, and she was falling asleep during our sessions. I think she had apnea, but that's another story. I'd be willing to sit through a "what he needs" convo if that's the purpose of the visit. Good for you to see that you can steer the topic back to what you can control -- your needs. If both of us are taking care of the A, that means no one is taking care of me. I pray daily for discernment and guidance, serenity, HP's will and the power to carry it out and get out of the way. Hugs to you, PK.
Hey Prissykitty - I've been there and what the program suggests is that we keep our focus on us - our side of the street.....as I worked the steps, and began to seek my part in the chaos/insanity of the disease, I came to realize that so often many of the well-meaning folks had their own issues and truly were well meaning....yet - they were responding to me and my words and my shares!
It took me a long while to realize that I triggered much of the suggestions and advice by the way I was sharing and processing out loud. With a great sponsor, I began to 'see this' more clearly. As I would begin to discuss an issue with my qualifier, she would ask me over and over again - how do you feel? What can you own? What can you do differently? Why don't you just pray for them? And this went on for a long while. In time, I was retrained to identify the trouble, assess my feelings/my part and then discuss where I was at.
Each time there was a relapse, I was full of fear, anger, anxiety and more. By the time I would call her, I was able to better admit that my qualifier relapsed, and I am sad and afraid for their safety. It took me a long while to see that I processed others actions, words, etc. as a personal attack on me. It was never truly about me - it was about them and their own issues/disease. It was within my insanity that when my qualifier relapsed, I took it personally.
What happened here is when I stopped talking about them and focused on me, so did others. If they slipped, I would say simply - I am totally powerless over them - I'm working on me. I got to a point where I stopped discussing even me to those who were more interested in fixing me/it than supporting and listening to me.
We went through many, many counselors. My experience is if they do not understand addiction, they will not be able to relate to our experience. We once were in family counseling and the counselor suggested I start a hobby or something to help change my focus. For the next 10 years, every time there was friction in the house, one-two or all 3 of my qualifiers would start chanting - you need a hobby - you need a hobby.....well intended suggestions from well-meaning counselors can certainly backfire with the wrong audience!
Lean into your program friends - I have found that nobody, even paid counselors, can offer true support and comfort like another who has walked a mile in similar shoes. (((Hugs))) - stick with the winners as best you can as there are some in recovery who still want to advise and control...
-- Edited by Iamhere on Saturday 17th of December 2016 08:50:29 AM