it has been long since i last checked in. I am in recovery since I separated from my ABF 3 years ago, an intense but beautiful journey. So many things changed since then, and I'm still and always grateful for this group and movement. But you know, you can never escape some unpleasant facts, and I got where I got, in the good and in the bad, because I grew up around dysfunctional believes, not blaming anyone, but it is what it is, and our societies are ill with alcohol roaming, and sometimes we get more affected then other times. I recently had to move back for a semester to my family of origin, because I'm pregnant now and I chose to deliver in my home country for simple health and administrative issues.
So naturally I got faced with the situation here, and it has been an eye-opener since. my qualifiers are my parents, father is A in full denial,and mum is co-dependent in full reaction. The thing that makes it all more obvious now is my awareness about the signs, the understanding of the disease and the age of both of them, they are getting old and they have the dynamic going full on, increasing yearly it seems, and I have been away for long, so I see it now much clearer, like through a magnifying glass.
It's so obvious and while mum is open for talks with me ( i suggested her to read about Al anon..) and it seems to soothe her to hear my experience, because she recognizes some well-known traits in her and her husband, father is still in full denial. Even though alcoholism is around his friends, he always talks about them vs him, he feels no concern at all, because he judges for himself that he is fine...everything under control (but sneaking every night out to fill up his glass...it's kind of funny to observe and think that he really believes he can lie to us or himself, disease in full action) anyway, we sometimes get into talking over dinner, and it's difficult to shut my mouth when he starts wanting to teach my mum and me about how his friends are having a problem with alcohol and how he has everything under control.
I realize no suggestion or advice from my side will get to his awareness, but he is my father and I can see both of them suffering so much for unnecessary reasons.
But i guess it is just, let go and let God... and try to keep to myself, not to react too much and keep learning.
what is our experience with loved ones in your direct environment? anything that worked for you to stay at a safe distance but have the feeling to be useful somehow in their self-realization?
Detaching with love is hard with those two.
thanks for sharing and lots of light to all of you out there. Keep strong, keep loving.
hotrod said
Dec 11, 2016
Welcome back I found no matter what- Meetings, a sponsor and the reworking of the Steps helped me to stay sane at times such as you describe. Good luck with the little one.
tiredtonite said
Dec 11, 2016
When the student is ready, the teacher will come. Alanon has shown me that I am always the student and my higher power the teacher. If I am working my program and it another person is attracted to my recovery/serenity and asks, I am always happy to share with that family member. It sounds like your mom is choosing to be open to learning more about Alanon.
It's very difficult to keep hands off the drinker when they're someone so close to us because we love them. I try to remember that trying control the uncontrollable - disease of alcoholism - is what got me here. I thought my message - ultimatums, wisdom, logic, affection etc was going to bring about sobriety in the drinker. I believed I was the healthy one and could rescue them from themselves.
Tortuga, this sense of urgency was almost like an out of body experience - jumping out of mine and into yours. I would project my own wants and needs onto the alcoholic. Granted some of this came from a desire for them to quit drinking and be healthy but my Alanon step work revealed that a lot of this behavior was rooted in my own dependence on alcoholic to meet needs that it was my own job to meet with the help of my loving higher power. So basically, just like the alcoholics in my life, I was trying to manipulate because I had not learned to support myself physically, emotionally and spiritually. This is a very dangerous leap for me with a total lack of self focus. I tried again and again to impose my will on the alcoholics in my life to force outcomes, believed myself greater, more knowing than that person's higher power and my own. Thy will not my will be done. I could not trust and let go and let god.
Today, in dinner table discussions like you described I can choose to cherish my own serenity and detach. I learned here to be self focused, concentrate on living my own life and guard my sanity. Finding a meeting, calling my sponsor, reading some literature, going for walk to refocus have been helpful tools when I feel myself slipping into my own dis-ease. It sometimes helps me to say the Serenity Prayer this way... God, grant me the serenity to accept the one I cannot change, the courage to change the one I can and the wisdom to know that one is me. Amen
Tortuga, I wish you the best with your pregnancy, studies and new living situation. Thanks for sharing your experience, strength and hope. Glad you're here with me recovering odaat. ((hugs))) TT
-- Edited by tiredtonite on Sunday 11th of December 2016 10:37:08 AM
2HP said
Dec 11, 2016
I so appreciate your post as a reminder to myself that what I focus on gets BIGGER. My mind tends to zero in on what I do NOT have like a magnet. It goes to the negative even though there are wonderful, positive things unfolding. when I hold my focus on darkness, the light is driven out... "stuff" greying out all the sweetness.
Making use of the steps works for me too.... making "use" of the Higher Power. Every day, every minute, my marching orders are always the same, Let go and Let God (surrender.) Almost like a one step program, the daily constant turning... ever holding onto wisdom gained (from previous relationships) and asking myself, am I still powerless?????
and particularly step 12 reminding me the best way to change anyone is to change myself, the message we carry is our own lessons gained when ASKED... my sponsor taught they gotta need it, want it, and they gotta ASK ME FOR IT. If they're not asking me, I am out trying to control outcomes again.
when I am with "difficult" people, I try to remain focused on what is going on in between my ears.... a quiet observer focused on my own journey. Around family, I'm in the perfect place to practice our spiritual skills because I can expect my dis-ease to be triggered, tempting me and pulling me to go backwards. I was told that we either go forward (toward HP and serenity) or backward (for me, going backwards is forgetting Higher Power, the greatest error I can ever make.) The goal is to be free wherever I am placed.
I am so smiling about your growing baby.. please send LOVE from me
-- Edited by 2HP on Sunday 11th of December 2016 12:34:39 PM
Jerry F said
Dec 11, 2016
Aloha Tortuga and glad to read your post. You have grown a lot and are still moving forward. The replies you have received demonstrate the oneness I have with the program because they reflect my own ESH and position on this journey of peace of mind and serenity. It reminds me of many lessons including the "let go absolutely .... Trust God principles" of our program. What others think, say and do no longer easily upset my serenity...it is not my responsibility or job which is only me. That is keeping it simple at best for me and when I find myself a bit shaken by what is going on outside of me I know the practice of "refocus" and abandon myself to God and my sponsors phone number and the meeting schedules for my side of the island. I can be of use to "Them" by being compassionate, empathetic and loving without out using any glue.
Glad to have you home. (((Hugs)))
Iamhere said
Dec 11, 2016
Great to see you back - and congrats. on the baby! I'm with Betty - for me and my sanity/serenity, aligning with our program is typically where I find answers to my many thoughts. Of course, I often first here that I need to keep my focus on me - and that I am and will always be powerless over other people, places and things! Our serenity prayer is so very, very helpful for me too - brings me back to the here and the now.
My 82 year old mother is an A - she began drinking, just as her father did, out of lack of purpose when we all vacated the home - as an empty nester. She's in full-blown denial, and my father is very bothered by her choices/disease. He too is the son of an A father, but he grew up being tugged all over town by his mother to find the drunk father before he spent the paycheck each week! They chased him down more nights than not to ensure he got home safely and did not wreck the only car. As such, my father is as close to a tee-totaller you will ever see.
Neither of them understands the disease or the progression of the disease. Neither would admit in public that they were ACOA nor would they ever attend recovery meetings - as they don't see any reason (denial). My mother doesn't think she has an issue and my father believes all his issues are my mother. So - the cycle of alcoholism continues and I am totally powerless over any/all of that.
My father is same age. Through Al-Anon, I've come to love them and accept them as they are. I actually am very grateful to still have them - even though they drive me batty half the time - and that in spite of the disease, they are reasonably healthy. The program tells me to work to be the best version of me, be of service when needed without expectations and allow God to care for, lead and nurture all his children without my interference - just as he does for me.
They are coming for 2 weeks in 6 days. It's a ton of work for me and I used to whine, complain, stress, etc. I move out of my bedroom as it's on the main floor of the home and they've got weak knees and hips. I host them here, they use my car and pretty much disrupt every moment of my day! Yet - I am grateful. They are truly great guests and don't ever put me out. My mother is not allowed to drink at my home, so they make plans most evenings - to see other friends, other family, etc. It is my service to them for giving me birth and keeping me alive for 16 years (I left home @ 17). I am so grateful for my own life today, and in spite of my upbringing, their isms and the chaos/drama the disease brings, I can be grateful they gave me life and give back with no expectation.
I will admit I disappear often while they are here - to do laundry, take a nap, do some work, etc... as it's not easy to share space with folks you've not lived with for almost 40 years. To them, I will always be their baby and they offer tons of unsolicited advice. I am a huge believer in honor your parents, so I allow them to do so because they believe it is their job. I listen to the same story, joke, advice, etc. 4-6 times and practice patience. When I become restless, irritable or discontent, I recognize it's me that needs to process and adjust - not them. I love QTIP and JADE when they visit - and am reminded of all my friends who no longer have their parents.
So - for me, all that I truly need to manage my existence one day at a time is in our program. I have many tools at my disposal and am grateful. If I can keep an attitude of gratitude, things go really well. It's when me, myself and/or I - my will raises up - that I get conflicted.
My sponsor told me early on to flip my thinking upside down - focus on what is good/working vs. what is not. I have a home, food, water, groceries, my parents, and my recovery. While it would be grand to have all those I love in some level of recovery, it's God's job, not mine to lead them.
Keep coming back - great topic and glad that you've returned to share my journey!
Maresie25 said
Dec 12, 2016
My sister has been an alcoholic for decades. Now one of her son's certainly has big signs he is one of them. I know for a fact my sister absolutely believes everything is fine
There is not much arguing with that. I personally have to limit my time around alcoholics. I have spent decades arguing, full of resentment and grieving. Eventually I had to get to detachment or sink down with them
I do know people who after decades got sober, got jobs and started to turn their life around. A lot of stuff had to change for that
My sister is unlikely to change. The good thing these days is I feel less resentful of her. That doesn't mean I am happy about her situation. I just have limirs, acceptance. But most of all I no longer feel my only life role is to save her or any other alcoholic.
Maresie25
Helo family,
it has been long since i last checked in. I am in recovery since I separated from my ABF 3 years ago, an intense but beautiful journey. So many things changed since then, and I'm still and always grateful for this group and movement. But you know, you can never escape some unpleasant facts, and I got where I got, in the good and in the bad, because I grew up around dysfunctional believes, not blaming anyone, but it is what it is, and our societies are ill with alcohol roaming, and sometimes we get more affected then other times. I recently had to move back for a semester to my family of origin, because I'm pregnant now and I chose to deliver in my home country for simple health and administrative issues.
So naturally I got faced with the situation here, and it has been an eye-opener since. my qualifiers are my parents, father is A in full denial,and mum is co-dependent in full reaction. The thing that makes it all more obvious now is my awareness about the signs, the understanding of the disease and the age of both of them, they are getting old and they have the dynamic going full on, increasing yearly it seems, and I have been away for long, so I see it now much clearer, like through a magnifying glass.
It's so obvious and while mum is open for talks with me ( i suggested her to read about Al anon..) and it seems to soothe her to hear my experience, because she recognizes some well-known traits in her and her husband, father is still in full denial. Even though alcoholism is around his friends, he always talks about them vs him, he feels no concern at all, because he judges for himself that he is fine...everything under control (but sneaking every night out to fill up his glass...it's kind of funny to observe and think that he really believes he can lie to us or himself, disease in full action) anyway, we sometimes get into talking over dinner, and it's difficult to shut my mouth when he starts wanting to teach my mum and me about how his friends are having a problem with alcohol and how he has everything under control.
I realize no suggestion or advice from my side will get to his awareness, but he is my father and I can see both of them suffering so much for unnecessary reasons.
But i guess it is just, let go and let God... and try to keep to myself, not to react too much and keep learning.
what is our experience with loved ones in your direct environment? anything that worked for you to stay at a safe distance but have the feeling to be useful somehow in their self-realization?
Detaching with love is hard with those two.
thanks for sharing and lots of light to all of you out there. Keep strong, keep loving.
When the student is ready, the teacher will come. Alanon has shown me that I am always the student and my higher power the teacher. If I am working my program and it another person is attracted to my recovery/serenity and asks, I am always happy to share with that family member. It sounds like your mom is choosing to be open to learning more about Alanon.
It's very difficult to keep hands off the drinker when they're someone so close to us because we love them. I try to remember that trying control the uncontrollable - disease of alcoholism - is what got me here. I thought my message - ultimatums, wisdom, logic, affection etc was going to bring about sobriety in the drinker. I believed I was the healthy one and could rescue them from themselves.
Tortuga, this sense of urgency was almost like an out of body experience - jumping out of mine and into yours. I would project my own wants and needs onto the alcoholic. Granted some of this came from a desire for them to quit drinking and be healthy but my Alanon step work revealed that a lot of this behavior was rooted in my own dependence on alcoholic to meet needs that it was my own job to meet with the help of my loving higher power. So basically, just like the alcoholics in my life, I was trying to manipulate because I had not learned to support myself physically, emotionally and spiritually. This is a very dangerous leap for me with a total lack of self focus. I tried again and again to impose my will on the alcoholics in my life to force outcomes, believed myself greater, more knowing than that person's higher power and my own. Thy will not my will be done. I could not trust and let go and let god.
Today, in dinner table discussions like you described I can choose to cherish my own serenity and detach. I learned here to be self focused, concentrate on living my own life and guard my sanity. Finding a meeting, calling my sponsor, reading some literature, going for walk to refocus have been helpful tools when I feel myself slipping into my own dis-ease. It sometimes helps me to say the Serenity Prayer this way... God, grant me the serenity to accept the one I cannot change, the courage to change the one I can and the wisdom to know that one is me. Amen
Tortuga, I wish you the best with your pregnancy, studies and new living situation. Thanks for sharing your experience, strength and hope. Glad you're here with me recovering odaat. ((hugs))) TT
-- Edited by tiredtonite on Sunday 11th of December 2016 10:37:08 AM
I so appreciate your post as a reminder to myself that what I focus on gets BIGGER. My mind tends to zero in on what I do NOT have like a magnet. It goes to the negative even though there are wonderful, positive things unfolding. when I hold my focus on darkness, the light is driven out... "stuff" greying out all the sweetness.
Making use of the steps works for me too.... making "use" of the Higher Power. Every day, every minute, my marching orders are always the same, Let go and Let God (surrender.) Almost like a one step program, the daily constant turning... ever holding onto wisdom gained (from previous relationships) and asking myself, am I still powerless?????
and particularly step 12 reminding me the best way to change anyone is to change myself, the message we carry is our own lessons gained when ASKED... my sponsor taught they gotta need it, want it, and they gotta ASK ME FOR IT. If they're not asking me, I am out trying to control outcomes again.
when I am with "difficult" people, I try to remain focused on what is going on in between my ears.... a quiet observer focused on my own journey. Around family, I'm in the perfect place to practice our spiritual skills because I can expect my dis-ease to be triggered, tempting me and pulling me to go backwards. I was told that we either go forward (toward HP and serenity) or backward (for me, going backwards is forgetting Higher Power, the greatest error I can ever make.) The goal is to be free wherever I am placed.
I am so smiling about your growing baby.. please send LOVE from me
-- Edited by 2HP on Sunday 11th of December 2016 12:34:39 PM
Aloha Tortuga and glad to read your post. You have grown a lot and are still moving forward. The replies you have received demonstrate the oneness I have with the program because they reflect my own ESH and position on this journey of peace of mind and serenity. It reminds me of many lessons including the "let go absolutely .... Trust God principles" of our program. What others think, say and do no longer easily upset my serenity...it is not my responsibility or job which is only me. That is keeping it simple at best for me and when I find myself a bit shaken by what is going on outside of me I know the practice of "refocus" and abandon myself to God and my sponsors phone number and the meeting schedules for my side of the island. I can be of use to "Them" by being compassionate, empathetic and loving without out using any glue.
Glad to have you home. (((Hugs)))
My 82 year old mother is an A - she began drinking, just as her father did, out of lack of purpose when we all vacated the home - as an empty nester. She's in full-blown denial, and my father is very bothered by her choices/disease. He too is the son of an A father, but he grew up being tugged all over town by his mother to find the drunk father before he spent the paycheck each week! They chased him down more nights than not to ensure he got home safely and did not wreck the only car. As such, my father is as close to a tee-totaller you will ever see.
Neither of them understands the disease or the progression of the disease. Neither would admit in public that they were ACOA nor would they ever attend recovery meetings - as they don't see any reason (denial). My mother doesn't think she has an issue and my father believes all his issues are my mother. So - the cycle of alcoholism continues and I am totally powerless over any/all of that.
My father is same age. Through Al-Anon, I've come to love them and accept them as they are. I actually am very grateful to still have them - even though they drive me batty half the time - and that in spite of the disease, they are reasonably healthy. The program tells me to work to be the best version of me, be of service when needed without expectations and allow God to care for, lead and nurture all his children without my interference - just as he does for me.
They are coming for 2 weeks in 6 days. It's a ton of work for me and I used to whine, complain, stress, etc. I move out of my bedroom as it's on the main floor of the home and they've got weak knees and hips. I host them here, they use my car and pretty much disrupt every moment of my day! Yet - I am grateful. They are truly great guests and don't ever put me out. My mother is not allowed to drink at my home, so they make plans most evenings - to see other friends, other family, etc. It is my service to them for giving me birth and keeping me alive for 16 years (I left home @ 17). I am so grateful for my own life today, and in spite of my upbringing, their isms and the chaos/drama the disease brings, I can be grateful they gave me life and give back with no expectation.
I will admit I disappear often while they are here - to do laundry, take a nap, do some work, etc... as it's not easy to share space with folks you've not lived with for almost 40 years. To them, I will always be their baby and they offer tons of unsolicited advice. I am a huge believer in honor your parents, so I allow them to do so because they believe it is their job. I listen to the same story, joke, advice, etc. 4-6 times and practice patience. When I become restless, irritable or discontent, I recognize it's me that needs to process and adjust - not them. I love QTIP and JADE when they visit - and am reminded of all my friends who no longer have their parents.
So - for me, all that I truly need to manage my existence one day at a time is in our program. I have many tools at my disposal and am grateful. If I can keep an attitude of gratitude, things go really well. It's when me, myself and/or I - my will raises up - that I get conflicted.
My sponsor told me early on to flip my thinking upside down - focus on what is good/working vs. what is not. I have a home, food, water, groceries, my parents, and my recovery. While it would be grand to have all those I love in some level of recovery, it's God's job, not mine to lead them.
Keep coming back - great topic and glad that you've returned to share my journey!