Does the problem temporarily get worse when person starts Al Anon
Lucy125 said
Dec 2, 2016
I haven't been here for a while. I have been going to the face to face meeting and reading all the materials. I have also been practicing the 12 steps. I noticed something, does the addicted person's behavior get worse when the family practices the 12 steps?
I have been re reading the new comers packet again. That literature talks about the masochism of some people feeling the need to suffer and some addicted people use the addiction as power and domination and control of the family. That would be a con current disorder like NPD or Borderline personality disorder. One of my good friends is BPD and she took off again. She's also drinking. She cut off contact with me.
I have been trying really hard not to nag. There are certain things that I need. I usually let my husband have his mess in his office, but I need some of the documents and I can't find anything in that mess. So I told him. I can't have mess because I have to put my hands on this stuff in case of emergency. He is not addicted, but I noticed he's a little passive aggressive since I made that statement. Is there an Al anon way to address this, because I think I did the wrong thing.
KennyFenderjazz said
Dec 2, 2016
Hi Anne,
Nothing changes if nothing changes. In this case, you changed something, and you got changed behavior from the addict. Addicts getting worse or better, I don't know, but taking care of yourself and getting out of that masochistic/control cycle seems like a better thing for you.
It's not really that you can't have mess, but that you need to be able to get some select documents it sounds like, you just don't like mess, is what I am reading here. Is that correct? Just something to think about.
Kenny
Lucy125 said
Dec 2, 2016
I don't like the mess at all. It's been an issue for 22 years. I have done my best to stop nagging and leave his mess in his place, his desk and his messy work room. I knew when I married him. This was going to be a Felix and Oscar Madison relationship. (see the old Odd couple movie from the 60's)
It has become a problem because he gets all the documents and stuffs them in his messy desk. I need them because we have to set up a will, or do taxes or pay a bill and I am not taking a more active role and taking over some of his duties because his work is demanding more. I am now also using the room more because I have been working in that room, because my children are older and don't need as much. So now I do other tasks.
Especially this has become issue since we have no extended family, and if something happens I need all that where I can find it. I have been doing 12 steps and he seems worse when I just refuse to engage or ask for something, like I need these papers in this place. maybe it's changing a pattern that has been going on for a long time. I have been refusing to react to the passive aggressive nonsense. The martyr me wants to come out and play, but then again, I think no I am not playing that anymore.
My brother had NPD and he passed away from Alcoholism. My husband doesn't drink or use any drugs. Neither do I. It's just not what we do, but we do have our own faults.
pinkchip said
Dec 2, 2016
Anne, some things will "feel" worse because you are addressing your own dysfunctional thoughts and behaviors in alanon and it is for the better, but it's painful. Also, your qualifiers especially and some others will rail against your new boundaries and push for you to go back to "the old you." I have seen this lots. Stay the course!!!
Jerry F said
Dec 2, 2016
It is absolutely normal and acceptable that others will be defensive regarding their personality traits. They developed them and they practice them and it is acceptable for them so they will protect those traits in the manner they habitually do. My alcoholic/addict wife would get angry at the thought of me attending Al-Anon because she thought I was there to talk about her and I wasn't put off by her defense I knew the reality and she didn't so I let it go and then she did also. His mess is part of who he is not who you are, expense tenseness when you get too close regardless the reason. Being in Al-Anon makes me additionally different so it becomes "just another thing" they have to deal with. You and your value system unsettle him and make him fearful and angry as a natural condition I have to be conscious of this awareness when ever I find myself in it and know I cannot and will not be the cure all for all of my wife's fears. Keep coming back....((((hugs))))
Lucy125 said
Dec 2, 2016
Thanks That makes sense. I see this same thing in others at the Al Anon meetings. I guess all I can do is pray for my BPD friend. I hope she comes back.
DrSheilaHerenow said
Dec 2, 2016
"That literature talks about the masochism of some people feeling the need to suffer and some addicted people use the addiction as power and domination and control of the family" I am curious that you say you found this in a Newcomer's Packet.
There is no one answer that fits all. Yes, anyone living with active alcoholism, if they do not find Al-Alon, will feel victimized. They lose their power. Al Anon gives it back. If you are in Al Anon, the addicted person's power and domination of the family is over.
Iamhere said
Dec 3, 2016
Welcome to MIP DrSheila - glad you found us and joined right in. Keep coming back!
Lucy125 said
Dec 3, 2016
I think that phrase was in so you love an Alcoholic brochure. I think people drink or use drugs for different reasons. That's what that literature is pointing out. Some people with maybe a preexisting personality disorder use alcohol and their drinking to control others. Some other people aren't doing that. It's different for everyone.
I didn't expect the program to cause hostility with non drinkers in the family. I guess, it's just changing the pattern and the new me. People just cling to the old, and are reluctant to let old habits die, until an new pattern takes it's place.
I haven't been here for a while. I have been going to the face to face meeting and reading all the materials. I have also been practicing the 12 steps. I noticed something, does the addicted person's behavior get worse when the family practices the 12 steps?
I have been re reading the new comers packet again. That literature talks about the masochism of some people feeling the need to suffer and some addicted people use the addiction as power and domination and control of the family. That would be a con current disorder like NPD or Borderline personality disorder. One of my good friends is BPD and she took off again. She's also drinking. She cut off contact with me.
I have been trying really hard not to nag. There are certain things that I need. I usually let my husband have his mess in his office, but I need some of the documents and I can't find anything in that mess. So I told him. I can't have mess because I have to put my hands on this stuff in case of emergency. He is not addicted, but I noticed he's a little passive aggressive since I made that statement. Is there an Al anon way to address this, because I think I did the wrong thing.
Nothing changes if nothing changes. In this case, you changed something, and you got changed behavior from the addict. Addicts getting worse or better, I don't know, but taking care of yourself and getting out of that masochistic/control cycle seems like a better thing for you.
It's not really that you can't have mess, but that you need to be able to get some select documents it sounds like, you just don't like mess, is what I am reading here. Is that correct? Just something to think about.
Kenny
I don't like the mess at all. It's been an issue for 22 years. I have done my best to stop nagging and leave his mess in his place, his desk and his messy work room. I knew when I married him. This was going to be a Felix and Oscar Madison relationship. (see the old Odd couple movie from the 60's)
It has become a problem because he gets all the documents and stuffs them in his messy desk. I need them because we have to set up a will, or do taxes or pay a bill and I am not taking a more active role and taking over some of his duties because his work is demanding more. I am now also using the room more because I have been working in that room, because my children are older and don't need as much. So now I do other tasks.
Especially this has become issue since we have no extended family, and if something happens I need all that where I can find it. I have been doing 12 steps and he seems worse when I just refuse to engage or ask for something, like I need these papers in this place. maybe it's changing a pattern that has been going on for a long time. I have been refusing to react to the passive aggressive nonsense. The martyr me wants to come out and play, but then again, I think no I am not playing that anymore.
My brother had NPD and he passed away from Alcoholism. My husband doesn't drink or use any drugs. Neither do I. It's just not what we do, but we do have our own faults.
It is absolutely normal and acceptable that others will be defensive regarding their personality traits. They developed them and they practice them and it is acceptable for them so they will protect those traits in the manner they habitually do. My alcoholic/addict wife would get angry at the thought of me attending Al-Anon because she thought I was there to talk about her and I wasn't put off by her defense I knew the reality and she didn't so I let it go and then she did also. His mess is part of who he is not who you are, expense tenseness when you get too close regardless the reason. Being in Al-Anon makes me additionally different so it becomes "just another thing" they have to deal with. You and your value system unsettle him and make him fearful and angry as a natural condition I have to be conscious of this awareness when ever I find myself in it and know I cannot and will not be the cure all for all of my wife's fears. Keep coming back....((((hugs))))
Thanks That makes sense. I see this same thing in others at the Al Anon meetings. I guess all I can do is pray for my BPD friend. I hope she comes back.
"That literature talks about the masochism of some people feeling the need to suffer and some addicted people use the addiction as power and domination and control of the family" I am curious that you say you found this in a Newcomer's Packet.
There is no one answer that fits all. Yes, anyone living with active alcoholism, if they do not find Al-Alon, will feel victimized. They lose their power. Al Anon gives it back. If you are in Al Anon, the addicted person's power and domination of the family is over.
I think that phrase was in so you love an Alcoholic brochure. I think people drink or use drugs for different reasons. That's what that literature is pointing out. Some people with maybe a preexisting personality disorder use alcohol and their drinking to control others. Some other people aren't doing that. It's different for everyone.
I didn't expect the program to cause hostility with non drinkers in the family. I guess, it's just changing the pattern and the new me. People just cling to the old, and are reluctant to let old habits die, until an new pattern takes it's place.