I'm not really surprised as i once would have been earlier in my recovery but i think a part of me will always be a little baffled in the presence of the disease of addiction .. these past couple weeks i received many calls from my ex addict .. this happens when his life slows .. maybe a comedown moment .. not sure .. anyway that's neither here nor there but i let many of them pass by without my answering them because these are not calls for our daughter .. (he never mentions her much anymore never leaves a message and he won't call when he knows she's home so wrong 'motive) .. anyway we spent time talking and the truth is our call was funny even fun to talk .. there was that old familiar excitement though which i am not as attracted to as i once was but thinking that part might not fully anyway really ever leave because that's part of my own disease .. but even in that there is progress .. but there was also a switch .. he began opening up to me talking and mentioning he dabbles in aa .. i did not try to step him .. i merely mentioned one thing i became aware of because he asked in a round about way .. maybe i took the hook line and sinker .. but we spoke and he asked if he could keep in touch with me .. my first response was that i couldn't promise that .. but later i mentioned he's pretty much really always had that option when he's not criticising blaming or more because we have a daughter together .. I'm definitely not the reason he doesn't reach out to her more .. but we haven't spoken in some time .. for one he hadn't called much or really made an effort .. so point is i have no real expectations of him and i know his words don't always match his actions ..
but when we hung up i thought we had a good conversation with at least a little progress .. only to receive the next message .. when he called telling me he had an 'awareness and i was to call him back immediately (there was somewhat of a sarcasm tone in his voice like a funny) ha .. i knew then he was messing with me .. i also knew there was a resentment there .. i didn't comment but i didn't call either .. because i sat in the moment really 'seeing the manipulation .. the patterns .. it amazes me how much i see alcoholism will always be more cunning than me .. still regardless of how much recovery i get in .. his using words (that i wanna hear still) to get 'my attention .. i am just sitting here sort of baffled by my being baffled again .. guess if i am honest there is a tinge of resentment inside me too at this point which must mean there is a slight expectation .. or a slight spark of hope that someday .. he just might see something ..
i'm only sharing this for the sake of sharing it .. esh is always welcome .. i think i just needed to express my surprise that i'm surprised yet again .. just sayin .. he always one ups me .. even now .. pretty sure alcoholism will 'always be stronger than i am alone .. grateful i have the fellowship for strength ..
hotrod said
Nov 30, 2016
HI MeTwo2 I agree that alanon is a "WE" program because we cannot do this alone Glad that you shared.
sarahGee said
Nov 30, 2016
"alcoholism will always be stronger than I am alone"
Isn't that the truth.
Thank you for putting that into words, that I couldn't.
What a blessing that we have a program and fellowship we can turn to when we are being fooled by the disease.
I have been preparing myself for a few upcoming interactions with qualifiers, trying to keep the word "manipulation" at the front of the brain.
I find it funny how we can see them as so unwise in other areas of their lives, but they sure are smart when it comes to working us.
Good for you for being able to spot it, and not participate.
Iamhere said
Nov 30, 2016
MeTwo - love the share because what I see is one who is working the program and just got a dose of awareness. Those 3 A(s) are such great stepping stones for growth.....at least they've been so for me. Each time I do something that gives me cause to pause, and I think it through, the awareness leads to acceptance. More often than not, the acceptance and following action I take now is 'new' and/or 'improved' compared to before recovery.
Maybe I'm crazy, but the only way for me to know if I am growing and changing is by having these moments. It is when I am uncomfortable that I truly pause and feel. When I feel, then I am better able to deal/heal. Healing for me from the affects of this disease is not done - I suspect more will be revealed and then more feeling/dealing and healing will follow.
It took me a long, long while to truly accept others as they are - diseased, different, etc. I think what you've uncovered is exactly what you needed for now - the disease is cunning and powerful and no human power can rid us or them of the disease. Recovery is a WE program, and you are not alone. I see nothing wrong with hoping that at some point, there will be a positive relationship between child/parent. Perhaps, not today but there is nothing wrong with wanting that....it's a natural desire - for me...it's my expectations that twist it up at times.
(((Hugs))) - growth is good. Progress is what I see and that to me is recovery!!
MeTwo2 said
Dec 1, 2016
i needed the reminder of the 'We program .. and i thank you each because there is something in each of these i can carry inside me .. i agree with no human power being stronger or being able to rid us of this disease .. (relate to this too .. I find it funny how we can see them as so unwise in other areas of their lives, but they sure are smart when it comes to working us) keeping this light when i say this is a spiritual program .. just saying i remember my ex once in my kitchen .. there was such an illusion (which the illusion piece i am just seeing now) that he was so powerful baffling cunning ? then in reality i had a shift of remembering all the rather dumb things half lol no criticism in this he had either said or done .. and i had a small thought .. he really 'isn't all 'that powerful .. cripe he's not even that smart but the power 'behind the disease ? yah trips me up every time .. probably my ego still at play that baffles me .. the surprise it is still bigger than me ? need to remind myself my ego is part of my 'denial at times .. need to keep working on 'removing that one through step work which is the only thing i have ever experienced that's ever worked ..
i do hope someday the two of them are able to have a healthier relationship .. i guess step 2 is all about possibiities .. either way i hope my kids someday choose recovery too because they have also been effected ... being this is a family disease .. big sigh .. grateful i have the recovery process (hope) .. for better understanding to come ..
thank you for the hugs ! i so needed those too ..
-- Edited by MeTwo2 on Thursday 1st of December 2016 03:39:28 AM
Fooled said
Dec 1, 2016
Great share MeTwo2 I am finding that the more time my RAH is sober we are able to have some moments of vulnerability and good conversations. I was expressing to him the feelings I had when he was active and feelings like I was going insane due to the denial and gas lighting. I asked him, was I really that gullible? Or did you just perceive me as stupid? What made you think it was ok to do the things you did to manipulate me ? He responded with, I didn't think you were stupid, I just knew that I was smarter than you. I wanted the booze and you too. As long as I was at least half shot, I was able to convince myself that I could make you believe anything I wanted you to believe. As hard as it was to not take it personally, I accepted what a cunning and baffling disease this is.
MeTwo2 said
Dec 1, 2016
nice to have those moments too i'm sure (insightful to see when there is sobriety we can have more vulnerable moments) .. find too recovered alcoholics or addicts, etc .. can be very insightful .. when they are finally honest with 'themselves .. do know if i am honest with my own self my ex is very smart for sure .. though you might never know it at 'first glance ..
I'm not really surprised as i once would have been earlier in my recovery but i think a part of me will always be a little baffled in the presence of the disease of addiction .. these past couple weeks i received many calls from my ex addict .. this happens when his life slows .. maybe a comedown moment .. not sure .. anyway that's neither here nor there but i let many of them pass by without my answering them because these are not calls for our daughter .. (he never mentions her much anymore never leaves a message and he won't call when he knows she's home so wrong 'motive) .. anyway we spent time talking and the truth is our call was funny even fun to talk .. there was that old familiar excitement though which i am not as attracted to as i once was but thinking that part might not fully anyway really ever leave because that's part of my own disease .. but even in that there is progress .. but there was also a switch .. he began opening up to me talking and mentioning he dabbles in aa .. i did not try to step him .. i merely mentioned one thing i became aware of because he asked in a round about way .. maybe i took the hook line and sinker .. but we spoke and he asked if he could keep in touch with me .. my first response was that i couldn't promise that .. but later i mentioned he's pretty much really always had that option when he's not criticising blaming or more because we have a daughter together .. I'm definitely not the reason he doesn't reach out to her more .. but we haven't spoken in some time .. for one he hadn't called much or really made an effort .. so point is i have no real expectations of him and i know his words don't always match his actions ..
but when we hung up i thought we had a good conversation with at least a little progress .. only to receive the next message .. when he called telling me he had an 'awareness and i was to call him back immediately (there was somewhat of a sarcasm tone in his voice like a funny) ha .. i knew then he was messing with me .. i also knew there was a resentment there .. i didn't comment but i didn't call either .. because i sat in the moment really 'seeing the manipulation .. the patterns .. it amazes me how much i see alcoholism will always be more cunning than me .. still regardless of how much recovery i get in .. his using words (that i wanna hear still) to get 'my attention .. i am just sitting here sort of baffled by my being baffled again .. guess if i am honest there is a tinge of resentment inside me too at this point which must mean there is a slight expectation .. or a slight spark of hope that someday .. he just might see something ..
i'm only sharing this for the sake of sharing it .. esh is always welcome .. i think i just needed to express my surprise that i'm surprised yet again .. just sayin .. he always one ups me .. even now .. pretty sure alcoholism will 'always be stronger than i am alone .. grateful i have the fellowship for strength ..
Isn't that the truth.
Thank you for putting that into words, that I couldn't.
What a blessing that we have a program and fellowship we can turn to when we are being fooled by the disease.
I have been preparing myself for a few upcoming interactions with qualifiers, trying to keep the word "manipulation" at the front of the brain.
I find it funny how we can see them as so unwise in other areas of their lives, but they sure are smart when it comes to working us.
Good for you for being able to spot it, and not participate.
Maybe I'm crazy, but the only way for me to know if I am growing and changing is by having these moments. It is when I am uncomfortable that I truly pause and feel. When I feel, then I am better able to deal/heal. Healing for me from the affects of this disease is not done - I suspect more will be revealed and then more feeling/dealing and healing will follow.
It took me a long, long while to truly accept others as they are - diseased, different, etc. I think what you've uncovered is exactly what you needed for now - the disease is cunning and powerful and no human power can rid us or them of the disease. Recovery is a WE program, and you are not alone. I see nothing wrong with hoping that at some point, there will be a positive relationship between child/parent. Perhaps, not today but there is nothing wrong with wanting that....it's a natural desire - for me...it's my expectations that twist it up at times.
(((Hugs))) - growth is good. Progress is what I see and that to me is recovery!!
i needed the reminder of the 'We program .. and i thank you each because there is something in each of these i can carry inside me .. i agree with no human power being stronger or being able to rid us of this disease .. (relate to this too .. I find it funny how we can see them as so unwise in other areas of their lives, but they sure are smart when it comes to working us) keeping this light when i say this is a spiritual program .. just saying i remember my ex once in my kitchen .. there was such an illusion (which the illusion piece i am just seeing now) that he was so powerful baffling cunning ? then in reality i had a shift of remembering all the rather dumb things half lol no criticism in this he had either said or done .. and i had a small thought .. he really 'isn't all 'that powerful .. cripe he's not even that smart but the power 'behind the disease ? yah trips me up every time .. probably my ego still at play that baffles me .. the surprise it is still bigger than me ? need to remind myself my ego is part of my 'denial at times .. need to keep working on 'removing that one through step work which is the only thing i have ever experienced that's ever worked ..
i do hope someday the two of them are able to have a healthier relationship .. i guess step 2 is all about possibiities .. either way i hope my kids someday choose recovery too because they have also been effected ... being this is a family disease .. big sigh .. grateful i have the recovery process (hope) .. for better understanding to come ..
thank you for the hugs ! i so needed those too ..
-- Edited by MeTwo2 on Thursday 1st of December 2016 03:39:28 AM
nice to have those moments too i'm sure (insightful to see when there is sobriety we can have more vulnerable moments) .. find too recovered alcoholics or addicts, etc .. can be very insightful .. when they are finally honest with 'themselves .. do know if i am honest with my own self my ex is very smart for sure .. though you might never know it at 'first glance ..