I choose to write this due to seeing a few exasperated new members here asking themselves this question. The reasons I am about to list are an accumulation of things I've heard in alanon over the years, stuff I've seen from working in treatment/rehab, and my own experience of having had a long relationship with an alcoholic.
Reasons:
1. Hope they will change
2. Hanging onto statements they will change, despite actions saying otherwise.
3. Believing you suffered so much with a person, that you are due for reward or it has to get better.
4. Being told the alcoholic "needs" you by the actual alcoholic or by their family and they will die without you.
5. Believing you cause them to drink and you can cause them not to.
6. Believing BS excuses about how they drink because of a stressful job, bad childhood, past relationships that were/are damaging (Seeing the alcoholic as a charity case).
7. Guilt (typically inappropriate over breaking up a family, marriage, abandoning the A and the "dreams" you had)
8. Said vows...made promises and want to stick to them.
9. Scared of being alone.
10. Scared you cant make it financially without the A.
11. Lack of supports outside the relationship.
12. Feeling not worthy of better after years of enduring mistreatment (and literally being told you can't or won't do better)
13. The A making dramatic threats about what they will do if you leave.
14. Fear of split custody where the A might have unsupervised visits.
15. Having your own addiction or other serious issues that the A will tell you that they accept or that justify you having to put up with their addiction.
16. Feeling that any break up is a personal failure.
17. Believing the A will act rationally when they wont (will "choose" relationship and/or family over booze when they will never see it as a choice like you do)
18. Being thrown off by denial or minimizing that your A isnt that bad. "Just a binge drinker or a functional alcoholic."
19. Addiction to chaos without knowing it.
20. Crippling fear of change.
21. Staying with someone with worse issues than you so that you don't have to look at or take responsibility for self.
22. Caretaker mode feels good but terrible too.
23. Memories of a time when the A was sober or before they got so bad and thinking/hoping beyond reason it will go back to that.
24. Believing the A is "so nice, so great your soul mate" when they are sober and that makes it ok or worth enduring them drunk. Also forgetting it is the SOBER version that has so many issues that they can't live in reality and need to check out and get drunk all the time in the first place.
25. Growing up around alcoholics making you desensitized to it or thinking it's normal.
26. Pride/embarrassment: not wanting to admit you might have made a mistake getting with the A.
27. Your friends, family and theirs encouraging you to stay with the A. Fear of losing "their family" as your support.
28. Thinking that a bad relationship is better than no relationship.
29. Making decisions based off children's immature understanding of things and their unconditional love of the A.
30. Feel too old...been together too long to leave.
31. Strange attraction to bad boys/bad girls/damsels in distress, broken men..."projects."
32. Being obsessed with pulling emotions from an emotionally immature or closed off person.
33. Thinking if you can just understand why they drink, it will make it ok.
34. Progression happening so insidiously over time that you get stuck in a nightmarish situation without seeing how it got that bad.
35. It being fun at first to go out and party and drink with the A but you grew out of it, they didnt, but you still think they will.
36. The A tells you things you never heard from anyone else (said when sober typically) and you don't realize it's kinda like grooming you for their bad drunken behaviors.
37. Thinking forgiveness is a value or a must that supercedes self care and boundaries.
38. Not good at boundaries - pattern of squashing your own inner voice saying things aren't right/ you deserve better.
39. Shame - feeling that you have to keep their drinking a secret and endure it on your own.
40. In love and obsessed with what the A "could be"/potential rather than who and/or what they are.
41. Thinking marital counseling will help or fix problems caused by alcoholism rather than the marriage or communication.
42. Seeing the A as "trying" when really they are not.
43. Not being able to envision a happy single life or a future that will be better alone or with someone healthier.
44. Fear of going through even worse/messier times to get to something better.
45. Comparing self to all your coupled friends and thinking you HAVE to have that too. That you are freak if you don't and/or assuming all their relationships are perfect while being ashamed to say yours isn't.
46. After a long period of it being all about the A - you feel any positive self care is selfish.
47. Being told you are a dramatic, controlling, nag so many times you doubt your own sanity/inner voice
*Adding
48. You worked enough alanon to make a choice to stay with an A in a relationship where you are happy, love them, and their drinking and the disease doesn't drag you down with it.
**Not all of the above reasons are bad/wrong, or illogical. I do have to note that many folks are able to stay with an active alcoholic and detach enough to not be unhealthy and to be happy and true to themselves. See 48 :)
***I realized all the more after writing this how, if I have seen, heard, or experienced all of these things in Alanon and/or my own life, none of us shoud EVER put ourselves down or think we are just dumb or crazy for the relationships we have. If I could rip 47 "reasons" off like that, the overarching answer is that it is difficult, painful, confusing, and is more than we can handle alone. Hence, Alanon is the solution.
-- Edited by pinkchip on Saturday 26th of November 2016 02:41:41 PM
-- Edited by pinkchip on Saturday 26th of November 2016 03:14:21 PM
Iamhere said
Nov 26, 2016
That's a long list. None of them apply in my situation.
A few applied in my mind over the years. That was the insanity of my disease. Working the steps provided me with insight that my real reason for staying was fear-based - fear of not getting what I wanted or fear of life being worse (financially, emotionally, physically) without him. The steps and my HP released me of that fear, and continued program work keeps it in check.
I stay because I choose to do so. I love him and we work on things together, in God's time, no mine. I detach from his disease; he detaches from mine and it works.
I believe the power of choice given to us by the program is the number one reason recovering people would stay after a dose of Al-Anon.
LinSC said
Nov 26, 2016
Wonderful list Pink.....thank you very much
pinkchip said
Nov 26, 2016
Thank you Iamhere. You are my example of working such a good AA and alanon program that you "can" stay. I need to add to that list clearly...
Calm Lady said
Nov 26, 2016
Very helpful list, Pink Chip, thank you for sharing it.
MovieGal said
Nov 26, 2016
Wow. Have you been reading my mind? Food for thought for sure. thanks
lookingup said
Nov 26, 2016
Thank you pinkchip for posting n sharing these,all so true.......
Iamhere said
Nov 26, 2016
Trust me when I say.....leaving was my first thought and plan. It was just not how it turned out for me. At some point most of those reasons/thoughts had crept into my head. What I did know is that I would survive if I left - I was not sure about my boys and was torn - even before recovery in Al-Anon. Then they went down that path and while my AH was not helpful and often contrary to what professionals suggested, at least he was part of it all.
My AH has an adult daughter. We've been married 25.5 years. I've seen her maybe 10 times. He and she are not estranged - he's just an isolating person. He has 7 siblings. I've met 5. I've seen them a handful of times. He shows me and my boys what a lifetime of this disease does to the diseased. They are all lovely and I go when they invite - he sometimes does and sometimes does not.
The reach of the disease is beyond my total understanding. I can also speak as the diseased I had many of these same thoughts before recovery - not good enough, not rich enough, not smart enough, etc. For a reason I will probably never know, just for today and for each day until today, leaving has not been placed in front of me as the right choice.
We seriously have minimal issues since the boys are gone. Most of our fights over our marriage were over them/their disease/choices. I accepted that it was risky to marry one in recovery when I first opted to choose him as my husband. There was a 50/50 chance either of us would/could at any time. I did assume if one of us relapsed, we would return to the program. That was were my projecting logic was way off base.
I hope that others understand the power of recovery. We get restored to sanity and we get HP-powered thinking. We are able to make sound choices based on needs vs. emotions. We are free of pity and blessed instead with grace and compassion. For me, most of the negative traits have been matured to assist me in serving myself and others. Most days, I feel light-years away from the person I was when I arrived so broken, angry, defeated and crumbling to Al-Anon, and I'll be forever grateful for those who showed me the way!
Fooled said
Nov 26, 2016
I am often asked "Why do you put up with it?" or a statement is made "You are a better woman than I am" The fact is I am not a better woman than anyone else. The fact is I live in a house of addiction and I have chosen to stay. Would I be alright financially? Yep Would I have a place to live? Yep. I stay because I love my husband. He may remain sober, I hope he remains sober, but I am at peace with the path that my HP-God has laid for me for know. I no longer am peeking around the corner to see if I like what's up ahead. I made my choice for now. If and when its time for me to go separate ways I will trust that is what my higher power has planned for me.
My issue is and always has been trust. Disappointment in a string of qualifiers, along with a plethora of other feeling and emotions. I will always be in recovery. I can say I am in a much better place than a year ago. I have hope. I have acceptance. My RAH asked me tonight if I thought we were going to make it. My response was I no longer think about next month, next year, but only today. Today, I have chosen to stay and we are together. Who knows what tomorrow will bring. Tomorrow is never promised. ODAT gets me through. Trust in my God, that he has me. That grace I am searching for, it will come. I still have my compassion as RAH has a horrible head cold or what I lovingly call the man flu. lol Yes, I did wake up the local pharmacist for a remedy alcohol free because he was suffering.
In the beginning, was my exit strategy all planned? Yep Well, it didn't go as planned. My HP also has a sense of humor. I plan He laughs. (Which is also the name of a great book- Not CAL approved but a great read nonetheless)
Pinkchip this is a great list, when I was crazy I used every last one of them.
Jayla said
Nov 26, 2016
Brilliant list! I see myself in SEVERAL of these.
Jayla said
Nov 26, 2016
Wow 15 of those apply to me.... Most importantly I think being the tendency to not listen to my inner voice....why don't I? I don't know.
sarahGee said
Nov 27, 2016
This was an awesome read. The original post and the conversation following. I can see a lot of my own thinking and fears in that list. That is where I am so confused. What is the truth and what is my own sick thinking? I know especially for ACOA we have learned over our lives to doubt our instincts and feelings, we become very sick as a result. I am so conflicted over so much in my life right now. I'm trying to stay silent and let it all sort itself out. Whatever I feel, or want to say, guaranteed it's unhealthy. I know nothing right now.
My xrabf, I am a mess over that one.
I crave his attention but can't handle him at the same time.
He has raked me over the coals emotionally, physically and financially.
Does he love me and I just don't know it? Is he a human making human mistakes? Am I cutting him too much slack & should run for the hills?
I have a really skewed idea of what love looks/feels like. I can come up with a rebuttal for almost any one of those behaviours.
I don't know if I'm staying or going. X is back in AA and clinging to hope that we will be able to work things out.. I know I'm staying silent and listening for what HP has to say.
Thank you for taking the time to post this. Gave my brain a good shake.
Jayla said
Nov 27, 2016
I have realized that it's really hard to listen to your inner voice and trust your instincts when you have anxiety/PTSD. You get so used to talking yourself down because your inner voice CAN'T be trusted. It's always telling you the sky is falling when it's not. So that makes it really hard to know when my inner voice is actually on to something that I should pay attention to Or when it's telling me again that the sky is falling and I should not listen to it. How can I ever tell the difference? Anyone else in this boat with esh?
pinkchip said
Nov 27, 2016
Yeah I do identify. That and literally having it thrown in your face that you are "crazy" by the A did cause me to doubt myself AND be scared I wouldn't and couldn't make it on my own. In actuality support from people that NEVER put me down was what I needed. Retraumatizing myself over and over in an emotionally abusive relationship was a vicious cycle.
Jayla said
Nov 27, 2016
Been there heard that too. How do you ever know when that inner voice is right and when it's going off again? I ask some I think I can trust what they think about what I'm saying and thinking but that doesn't seem like a good solution to me.
Jayla said
Nov 27, 2016
Been there heard that too. How do you ever know when that inner voice is right and when it's going off again? I ask some I think I can trust what they think about what I'm saying and thinking but that doesn't seem like a good solution to me.
RoseODAT said
Nov 27, 2016
Great post...rings the bell for me today.
I too have issues with anxiety. Sometimes I feel like a romantic relationship is not good for me no matter how "stable"I feel or how much progress I've made. One day at a time, if I have to, one second at a time....đ
milkwood said
Nov 28, 2016
Thank you so much for this Pinkchip - I can relate to most of it, as you know already!
el-cee said
Nov 28, 2016
Good list, I could have ticked most of them. I stayed because of my own distorted thinking and not until I got some sane and rational view of me and my life could I go forward and make changes. Its mostly about step 1 for me, thats what freed me.
Mcat54 said
Nov 29, 2016
No judgment here. No good or bad. These are the reasons. We get to decide if and when they are valid. That can change as we change. Seeing them listed together felt like an indictment to me, because I'm in a very bad place in terms of my marriage right now. I so appreciate everyone's sharing. I feel I have nothing left to give and only want to learn to take care of myself more appropriately. Grateful for program. Cathy
pinkchip said
Nov 29, 2016
Yep. I hear you Mcat. I also don't regret the relationship I had with my ex. And there are 50 or more logical/illogical reasons for him to have stayed with me. Though I was also an alcoholic with him too.
There have been times when Ive heard painful shares over and over again from folks about their qualifiers and thought they deserved "better" but I have come to see other people need to reach conclusions about relationships in their own time and in ways that suit them. It would not work if our choices didnt resonate on the inside.
While my original post may have some merit on an intellectual/cognitive level, I can see it doesnt speak to the spirit and problems that only time and each of our higher powers may reveal to us through recovery.
milkwood said
Nov 30, 2016
When, at the right time, our HP reveals to us whatever it is we need to know I find it really helps me to recognise the message I'm getting when I've seen something like it in the past. My thought process goes along the lines of 'oh, now I get it!' or words to that effect. Thank you for this thread and your questioning Pinkchip.
Sorry you are in a bad place Mcat. I remember beating myself up way too much when I had nothing left to give and then I figured that it was ok, in fact necessary, for me to take a rest from giving to my spouse for a while. I needed to recharge, regardless of whatever happened next. I was also surprised at how much my husband understood it, and appreciated what it was I was doing, when I eventually mentioned my needs to him.
KennyFenderjazz said
Nov 30, 2016
pinkchip wrote:
Yep. I hear you Mcat. I also don't regret the relationship I had with my ex. And there are 50 or more logical/illogical reasons for him to have stayed with me. Though I was also an alcoholic with him too.
There have been times when Ive heard painful shares over and over again from folks about their qualifiers and thought they deserved "better" but I have come to see other people need to reach conclusions about relationships in their own time and in ways that suit them. It would not work if our choices didnt resonate on the inside.
While my original post may have some merit on an intellectual/cognitive level, I can see it doesnt speak to the spirit and problems that only time and each of our higher powers may reveal to us through recovery.
PC, I love this post. Sometimes I feel like "why can't that person just figure out that he/she is no good for them!". And then I sit down 10 minutes later and do something that seem just as irrational to anybody else. So much of it is in timing and progress, which are do individual and personal, and can't be viewed well from the outside, maybe only by a sponsor if we are lucky.
Kenny
PS this kinda reminded me of a Paul Simon song lol
yanksfan51 said
Nov 30, 2016
This one hit me profoundly also- the original post- thank you PC, -and all the posts that have followed. I'm thinking that a long list most of us could come up with so quickly also speaks to how there are different stages and places you go through in recovery... whether remaining with a qualifier or not. I have now been divorced almost 3 years and work a program for a little longer than that... still, some days all it takes is a comment or text from my now exAH and MY disease brings me back to the unhealthy way of thinking/coping/behaving.
i know for many of us our dependent or enabling ways are the perfect storm when put together in any way with an A. For me, this list, how I recognized myself in so much of it, and the responses all were a strong reminder of how critical working a program has been in my life.
thank you PC and all--
M
hotrod said
Nov 30, 2016
Ms.M. I hear you and so understand. The Heart wants what the heart wants and it takes a long time for acceptance to move from the head tot the heart. Positive thoughts and prayers on the way
Freetime said
Nov 30, 2016
Ms. M., I think the song Kenny is reminded of is "50 Ways to Leave Your Lover." Am I right?
Juliexx70 said
Nov 30, 2016
Thanks for this. First time on here. Stumbled upon this site. Husband is an alcoholic and I am losing my mind. So tired of promises and lies. I want to leave and I want to stay. I work but don't make enough to support myself and kids. Lonely. I have exhausted all my friends and family. I just don't know what to do anymore. I pray all the time but it isn't getting. Better.
hotrod said
Nov 30, 2016
Hello Juliexx70Welcome You are not alone. Alcoholism is a progressive, chronic, fatal disease over which we are powerless. Living with the disease causes many to develop negative coping tools in order to survive the insanity of the disease.Please do search out alanon face to face meetings in your community and attend . The hot line number is in the white pages.
Alanon provides tool to help deal with the isolation caused by the disease and a support network who truly understand .
Please come back here as there is hope and help.
KennyFenderjazz said
Dec 1, 2016
Freetime, you are correct!
Lucy125 said
Dec 2, 2016
Just my opinion, a think the valid reason to stay, is that the non alcoholic loves certain things about the alcoholic and stays for the commitment. If it's not a dangerous situation, I think that could be valid. Just so long as the person staying knows, this situation may never get better and may deteriorate.
Aerin said
Dec 3, 2016
Lol ALL those apply to me accept we have no kids together. We have kids from prior marriages. I think I stay out of habit, I married and dated men with some sort of addictions and "bad boy" traits even though I am total opposite! Since he is now in AA I am kinda trying to see if it works. I was basically out the door and he decided to go (on his own, he didn't know I was about to say Forget this!) Age has a lot to do with it for me. I am 45 and feel any man I meet will have some baggage to deal with. I have a dislike of men and assume all drink or some bad habit! :( Buttt I am just seeing how it goes and really will leave if big relapses start and all that again. I will not risk not enjoying my life due to an alcoholic ever again
wifeofalcoholic said
Jan 30, 2017
Thank you so much for this post. I slept a couple of hours and now awake feeling so much anxiety by my AH relapse. I have a minimum of 10 of those reasons. I am going through a death in the family and it is so much more painful with my AH drinking, lying and not being emotionally available. If you have stayed in your relationship, what things do you do to cope and detach. I feel so reactive instead of proactive and when this happens, I pretty much freeze up and find it difficult to concentrate on anything else.
Cammi45 said
Jan 30, 2017
Thank you for this post. I can relate to some of these for sure. Sometimes I feel as if I'm going insane and find it is hard to detach myself from the A. I hate watching the episodes and it sometimes makes me feel numb inside. I told him recently I need to take care of myself and get the help I need and am looking into doing this soon.
Wolfie55 said
Jan 30, 2017
Thanks for sharing this list. Lots to think about.
Vivian10 said
Jan 30, 2017
This list has done wonders for me today so thank you for sharing. As I look at the posts here I have such admiration for all of you. Many of you have learned to cope utilizing the tools learned at Alanon. For me, I didn't become fully educated about the disease until after I decided to leave my AH. It was only at that time that I had a clear mind as I was not immersed in the chaos. Now that I have learned more about the disease and have invested time into practicing some of the tools here, my biggest struggle is guilt. I feel guilty for leaving someone I loved very very much because I now understand that my AH's relationship with alcohol was not something he could control.
KennyFenderjazz said
Jan 30, 2017
Hi Vivian,
We have the same first step as AA. So that means you could also not control it. It sounds like you did the best you could with what you had.
Kenny
ClearTheFog said
Feb 4, 2017
I'm stuck doing the same thing 7 years later and was on the way towards bottom again. Came here today and saw this list! I started reading it smugly, thinking "I've been working al anon now for some years. None of these will apply to me". But SO many of them still do. It helps so much to see them in black and white, outside of myself, and to see these behaviors for what they are: Things I do that don't entirely make logical sense.
Thank you for taking the time to write this, Pinkchip.
-- Edited by ClearTheFog on Saturday 4th of February 2017 11:49:24 AM
newleaf66 said
Feb 4, 2017
Great stuff here. I am at a place of letting go so he can decline as he will and get wherever he needs to be while I get to f2f meetings and work on my recovery. This list is helpful because I can't trust my own codependent rationalizations! They sound a lot like this list :) I understand now that by trying to control my AH's behavior, I am only postponing his fall and possibly then his recovery...or not. Either way, I'm done being sick myself. I'm grateful for this board and the ESH. Helps me keep it real when my sick brain starts it's unhealthy chatter.
Stan1 said
Feb 4, 2017
Thank you Pink Chip for sharing the list
Kcsnooze said
Feb 4, 2017
The big one I have been struggling with is the part of the marriage vows that says "in sickness and in health."
Al-Anon teaches us that alcoholism is a disease, thus qualifying as a sickness.
How do I rationalize leaving him if he is truly sick?
I choose to write this due to seeing a few exasperated new members here asking themselves this question. The reasons I am about to list are an accumulation of things I've heard in alanon over the years, stuff I've seen from working in treatment/rehab, and my own experience of having had a long relationship with an alcoholic.
Reasons:
1. Hope they will change
2. Hanging onto statements they will change, despite actions saying otherwise.
3. Believing you suffered so much with a person, that you are due for reward or it has to get better.
4. Being told the alcoholic "needs" you by the actual alcoholic or by their family and they will die without you.
5. Believing you cause them to drink and you can cause them not to.
6. Believing BS excuses about how they drink because of a stressful job, bad childhood, past relationships that were/are damaging (Seeing the alcoholic as a charity case).
7. Guilt (typically inappropriate over breaking up a family, marriage, abandoning the A and the "dreams" you had)
8. Said vows...made promises and want to stick to them.
9. Scared of being alone.
10. Scared you cant make it financially without the A.
11. Lack of supports outside the relationship.
12. Feeling not worthy of better after years of enduring mistreatment (and literally being told you can't or won't do better)
13. The A making dramatic threats about what they will do if you leave.
14. Fear of split custody where the A might have unsupervised visits.
15. Having your own addiction or other serious issues that the A will tell you that they accept or that justify you having to put up with their addiction.
16. Feeling that any break up is a personal failure.
17. Believing the A will act rationally when they wont (will "choose" relationship and/or family over booze when they will never see it as a choice like you do)
18. Being thrown off by denial or minimizing that your A isnt that bad. "Just a binge drinker or a functional alcoholic."
19. Addiction to chaos without knowing it.
20. Crippling fear of change.
21. Staying with someone with worse issues than you so that you don't have to look at or take responsibility for self.
22. Caretaker mode feels good but terrible too.
23. Memories of a time when the A was sober or before they got so bad and thinking/hoping beyond reason it will go back to that.
24. Believing the A is "so nice, so great your soul mate" when they are sober and that makes it ok or worth enduring them drunk. Also forgetting it is the SOBER version that has so many issues that they can't live in reality and need to check out and get drunk all the time in the first place.
25. Growing up around alcoholics making you desensitized to it or thinking it's normal.
26. Pride/embarrassment: not wanting to admit you might have made a mistake getting with the A.
27. Your friends, family and theirs encouraging you to stay with the A. Fear of losing "their family" as your support.
28. Thinking that a bad relationship is better than no relationship.
29. Making decisions based off children's immature understanding of things and their unconditional love of the A.
30. Feel too old...been together too long to leave.
31. Strange attraction to bad boys/bad girls/damsels in distress, broken men..."projects."
32. Being obsessed with pulling emotions from an emotionally immature or closed off person.
33. Thinking if you can just understand why they drink, it will make it ok.
34. Progression happening so insidiously over time that you get stuck in a nightmarish situation without seeing how it got that bad.
35. It being fun at first to go out and party and drink with the A but you grew out of it, they didnt, but you still think they will.
36. The A tells you things you never heard from anyone else (said when sober typically) and you don't realize it's kinda like grooming you for their bad drunken behaviors.
37. Thinking forgiveness is a value or a must that supercedes self care and boundaries.
38. Not good at boundaries - pattern of squashing your own inner voice saying things aren't right/ you deserve better.
39. Shame - feeling that you have to keep their drinking a secret and endure it on your own.
40. In love and obsessed with what the A "could be"/potential rather than who and/or what they are.
41. Thinking marital counseling will help or fix problems caused by alcoholism rather than the marriage or communication.
42. Seeing the A as "trying" when really they are not.
43. Not being able to envision a happy single life or a future that will be better alone or with someone healthier.
44. Fear of going through even worse/messier times to get to something better.
45. Comparing self to all your coupled friends and thinking you HAVE to have that too. That you are freak if you don't and/or assuming all their relationships are perfect while being ashamed to say yours isn't.
46. After a long period of it being all about the A - you feel any positive self care is selfish.
47. Being told you are a dramatic, controlling, nag so many times you doubt your own sanity/inner voice
*Adding
48. You worked enough alanon to make a choice to stay with an A in a relationship where you are happy, love them, and their drinking and the disease doesn't drag you down with it.
**Not all of the above reasons are bad/wrong, or illogical. I do have to note that many folks are able to stay with an active alcoholic and detach enough to not be unhealthy and to be happy and true to themselves. See 48 :)
***I realized all the more after writing this how, if I have seen, heard, or experienced all of these things in Alanon and/or my own life, none of us shoud EVER put ourselves down or think we are just dumb or crazy for the relationships we have. If I could rip 47 "reasons" off like that, the overarching answer is that it is difficult, painful, confusing, and is more than we can handle alone. Hence, Alanon is the solution.
-- Edited by pinkchip on Saturday 26th of November 2016 02:41:41 PM
-- Edited by pinkchip on Saturday 26th of November 2016 03:14:21 PM
A few applied in my mind over the years. That was the insanity of my disease. Working the steps provided me with insight that my real reason for staying was fear-based - fear of not getting what I wanted or fear of life being worse (financially, emotionally, physically) without him. The steps and my HP released me of that fear, and continued program work keeps it in check.
I stay because I choose to do so. I love him and we work on things together, in God's time, no mine. I detach from his disease; he detaches from mine and it works.
I believe the power of choice given to us by the program is the number one reason recovering people would stay after a dose of Al-Anon.
Wonderful list Pink.....thank you very much
Wow. Have you been reading my mind? Food for thought for sure. thanks
My AH has an adult daughter. We've been married 25.5 years. I've seen her maybe 10 times. He and she are not estranged - he's just an isolating person. He has 7 siblings. I've met 5. I've seen them a handful of times. He shows me and my boys what a lifetime of this disease does to the diseased. They are all lovely and I go when they invite - he sometimes does and sometimes does not.
The reach of the disease is beyond my total understanding. I can also speak as the diseased I had many of these same thoughts before recovery - not good enough, not rich enough, not smart enough, etc. For a reason I will probably never know, just for today and for each day until today, leaving has not been placed in front of me as the right choice.
We seriously have minimal issues since the boys are gone. Most of our fights over our marriage were over them/their disease/choices. I accepted that it was risky to marry one in recovery when I first opted to choose him as my husband. There was a 50/50 chance either of us would/could at any time. I did assume if one of us relapsed, we would return to the program. That was were my projecting logic was way off base.
I hope that others understand the power of recovery. We get restored to sanity and we get HP-powered thinking. We are able to make sound choices based on needs vs. emotions. We are free of pity and blessed instead with grace and compassion. For me, most of the negative traits have been matured to assist me in serving myself and others. Most days, I feel light-years away from the person I was when I arrived so broken, angry, defeated and crumbling to Al-Anon, and I'll be forever grateful for those who showed me the way!
My issue is and always has been trust. Disappointment in a string of qualifiers, along with a plethora of other feeling and emotions. I will always be in recovery. I can say I am in a much better place than a year ago. I have hope. I have acceptance. My RAH asked me tonight if I thought we were going to make it. My response was I no longer think about next month, next year, but only today. Today, I have chosen to stay and we are together. Who knows what tomorrow will bring. Tomorrow is never promised. ODAT gets me through. Trust in my God, that he has me. That grace I am searching for, it will come. I still have my compassion as RAH has a horrible head cold or what I lovingly call the man flu. lol Yes, I did wake up the local pharmacist for a remedy alcohol free because he was suffering.
In the beginning, was my exit strategy all planned? Yep Well, it didn't go as planned. My HP also has a sense of humor. I plan He laughs. (Which is also the name of a great book- Not CAL approved but a great read nonetheless)
Pinkchip this is a great list, when I was crazy I used every last one of them.
My xrabf, I am a mess over that one.
I crave his attention but can't handle him at the same time.
He has raked me over the coals emotionally, physically and financially.
Does he love me and I just don't know it? Is he a human making human mistakes? Am I cutting him too much slack & should run for the hills?
I have a really skewed idea of what love looks/feels like. I can come up with a rebuttal for almost any one of those behaviours.
I don't know if I'm staying or going. X is back in AA and clinging to hope that we will be able to work things out.. I know I'm staying silent and listening for what HP has to say.
Thank you for taking the time to post this. Gave my brain a good shake.
Good list, I could have ticked most of them. I stayed because of my own distorted thinking and not until I got some sane and rational view of me and my life could I go forward and make changes. Its mostly about step 1 for me, thats what freed me.
There have been times when Ive heard painful shares over and over again from folks about their qualifiers and thought they deserved "better" but I have come to see other people need to reach conclusions about relationships in their own time and in ways that suit them. It would not work if our choices didnt resonate on the inside.
While my original post may have some merit on an intellectual/cognitive level, I can see it doesnt speak to the spirit and problems that only time and each of our higher powers may reveal to us through recovery.
Sorry you are in a bad place Mcat. I remember beating myself up way too much when I had nothing left to give and then I figured that it was ok, in fact necessary, for me to take a rest from giving to my spouse for a while. I needed to recharge, regardless of whatever happened next. I was also surprised at how much my husband understood it, and appreciated what it was I was doing, when I eventually mentioned my needs to him.
PC, I love this post. Sometimes I feel like "why can't that person just figure out that he/she is no good for them!". And then I sit down 10 minutes later and do something that seem just as irrational to anybody else. So much of it is in timing and progress, which are do individual and personal, and can't be viewed well from the outside, maybe only by a sponsor if we are lucky.
Kenny
PS this kinda reminded me of a Paul Simon song lol
This one hit me profoundly also- the original post- thank you PC, -and all the posts that have followed. I'm thinking that a long list most of us could come up with so quickly also speaks to how there are different stages and places you go through in recovery... whether remaining with a qualifier or not. I have now been divorced almost 3 years and work a program for a little longer than that... still, some days all it takes is a comment or text from my now exAH and MY disease brings me back to the unhealthy way of thinking/coping/behaving.
i know for many of us our dependent or enabling ways are the perfect storm when put together in any way with an A. For me, this list, how I recognized myself in so much of it, and the responses all were a strong reminder of how critical working a program has been in my life.
thank you PC and all--
M
Ms. M., I think the song Kenny is reminded of is "50 Ways to Leave Your Lover." Am I right?
Hello Juliexx70Welcome You are not alone. Alcoholism is a progressive, chronic, fatal disease over which we are powerless. Living with the disease causes many to develop negative coping tools in order to survive the insanity of the disease.Please do search out alanon face to face meetings in your community and attend . The hot line number is in the white pages.
Alanon provides tool to help deal with the isolation caused by the disease and a support network who truly understand .
Please come back here as there is hope and help.
Just my opinion, a think the valid reason to stay, is that the non alcoholic loves certain things about the alcoholic and stays for the commitment. If it's not a dangerous situation, I think that could be valid. Just so long as the person staying knows, this situation may never get better and may deteriorate.
We have the same first step as AA. So that means you could also not control it. It sounds like you did the best you could with what you had.
Kenny
I'm stuck doing the same thing 7 years later and was on the way towards bottom again. Came here today and saw this list! I started reading it smugly, thinking "I've been working al anon now for some years. None of these will apply to me". But SO many of them still do. It helps so much to see them in black and white, outside of myself, and to see these behaviors for what they are: Things I do that don't entirely make logical sense.
Thank you for taking the time to write this, Pinkchip.
-- Edited by ClearTheFog on Saturday 4th of February 2017 11:49:24 AM
The big one I have been struggling with is the part of the marriage vows that says "in sickness and in health."
Al-Anon teaches us that alcoholism is a disease, thus qualifying as a sickness.
How do I rationalize leaving him if he is truly sick?
I really need help on this one.