ive read quite a few books as well as writing on here...what exactly is detachmen? The way I see it is that you can still love someone and support, but not run to their aide. I've been working very hard on this and it's even harder because I do not think active alcoholics understand, which makes it even harder...what I have been doing with my detachment is walking away. From the situation when I cannot emotionally handle it anymore and when I feel as though it is no longer healthy to engage. when my A starts talking about how he needs me there to help him and he says he can't do it without me I never know what to say...i try to just tell him it's about you for you to make your life better, but he just says he wants me in his life and doesn't want to sit around and wait. I'm fine with that because I believe in fate and if we're meant to be he'll get sober on his own and if it's meant to be its meant to be.
oceanpine said
Nov 26, 2016
I cut and pasted, below, a post about detachment that was shared here recently.
You are right, in my experience, in active alcoholics not understanding it. My A, who is my soon-to-be ex, AH, actually blames detachment for the demise of our marriage. On his bad days, he will yell at me that I "detached with indifference" and indifference killed our marriage. I am sure I did not do it well, as in the early day I really struggled to understand what detachment is. And, I think it can come across as indifference, as I tried to not go down with the ship. But, I tried my best. Still, those words sting.
Detachment is neither kind nor unkind. It does not imply judgement or condemnation of the person or situation from which we are detaching. Seperating ourselves from the adverse effects of another person alcoholism can be a means of detaching: this does not neccessarily require physical seperation. Detachment can help us look at our situations realistically and objectively.
Alcoholism is a family disease. Living with the effects of someone else's drinking is devastating for most people to bear without help.
In Al-Anon we learn nothing we say or do can cause or stop someones else's drinking. We are not responsible for another person's disease or recovery from it.
Detatchment allows us to let go of our obsession with another's behavior and begin to lead happier and more manageable lives, lives with dignity and rights, lives guided by a Power greater than ourselves. We can still love the person without liking the behavior.
IN AL-ANON WE LEARN:
*Not to suffer because of the actions or reactions of other people
*Not to allow ourselves to be used or abused by others in the interest of another's recovery
*Not to do for others what they can do for themselves
*Not to manipulate situations so others will eat, go to bed, get up, pay bills, not drink, or behave to see fit
*Not to cover up another's mistakes or misdeeds
*Not to create a crisis
*Not to prevent a crisis if it is in the natural course of events
By learning to focus on ourselves, our attitudes and well-being improve. We allow the alcoholics in our lives to experience the consequences of their own actions.
Mcat54 said
Nov 26, 2016
Detachment is letting my husband look for his car keys by himself. Letting him leave the house without his belt. Letting him find his phone. Make his own plans. Formulate his own thoughts and finish his sentences -- I'm quick to anticipate his needs and wants. I'm a great mind-reader. Detachment is letting him speak for himself and do for himself, allowing him the dignity to take care of himself in ways large and small. To stop fixing everything. I don't have a life facilitator to smooth the way for me. It's not my role to do that for him. He's not a prince, he's my partner. We can't be equal if I keep him in an inferior position by assuming he can't take care of himself. It's unfamiliar to him when I stop playing miracle worker. He doesn't like it much, and I don't get to feel like a hero. But I'm OK with that. Hard to change, though. New behaviors take practice. That's why we go to meetings and share here. Change feels odd until it doesn't. Good luck! Keep coming back.
El said
Nov 26, 2016
I really like your response, Mcat. Much of what you said struck a cord with me. I especially like what you wrote about not having a life facilitator smoothing the way for you. Absolutely correct!!! I don't have someone planning, organizing, and connecting all the dots for me.
Although I am soooo much better at not mentioning things that need to be / could be done around the house, I still keep my AH's life running pretty smoothly. It really is for US, but there are things I could still be hands off about.
I liked your post about detachment. Thank you.
-- Edited by El on Saturday 26th of November 2016 09:05:51 AM
Freetime said
Nov 26, 2016
Thank you, vvv, for this topic and to Oceanpine and El for your great examples of how detachment works. It is certainly something I have struggled with. When I first heard about the concept, I was frustrated that I could not "detach with love" right away.
I learned from a sponsor and other Al-anons to be gentle with myself and to remember "Progress, not perfection." The journey to detachment may be long, and I believe it is OK to start with indifference as a first stage, and to appreciate ourselves for efforts and forgive ourselves for slip-ups. We are trying, and one day at a time getting closer to detachment with love.
My example is, a couple of years ago on Thanksgiving, when my late AH asked for wine, I just said the 3 C's to myself, walked out of the room, and took the dog for a walk. I let someone else bring him wine instead of me doing it. I didn't really feel detached or loving at all, but I was "acting as if."
For me, learning more about the disease of alcoholism gave me more empathy for what the alcoholic is up against, that it is not easy for them even when they reach the point that they want to change. Still, we do have to protect ourselves and our personal sanity, so whatever does that -- be it stepping away physically or whatever we need to do -- we owe it to ourselves to protect our own spirit.
andromeda said
Nov 26, 2016
I struggled with detachment but to me, what it meant that I was allowing my XAH to live his life by his rules. To let him be responsible for his choices. At first, I felt that I was detaching with a lot of hate instead of love. But, eventually I found peace with detachment and letting go and it helped me see that the most loving thing I could do was let him hit his own bottom by himself. He didn't need me for that and my rescuing him over and over again was only digging the hole he was in deeper.
Fooled said
Nov 26, 2016
Alcoholics need a fixer in their life. For me, detachment was not being that fixer. However off the wall he chose to fix his issues, I stood back and said not my monkey not my circus.
vvv said
Nov 26, 2016
Thank you all so much! The insight and actions of others and learning what works for other people is do incredibly helpful!'
Iamhere said
Nov 27, 2016
Detachment for me is working on me to be the best version of me. At the same time, it's allowing all others to be as they are and to grow as they will when/if they choose to do so. It took me a long time in recovery to understand how much PAUSE helps me to do this. I was one who always said, "Make sure you......" or "Have you considered ....." or "Others might say ......." - I worked my backside off trying to control others and manipulate an outcome I desired without malice or conscious intent often!!!! More often than I knew.
Today, when my qualifier is venting, I can just say, "I am sorry you are hurting." Even if they are blaming me. I have been able to detach enough to rise above the disease and take the high road. I feel deep down that we are all children of HP - and everyone deserves love, kindness, respect and compassion. No matter how insane what they are saying/doing is, I do not ever have to join in, try to reason or even own a small piece of it. I can visualize a hula-hoop, trust my HP has got me safe and respond or not from my own safe place.
(((Hugs))) to all - thanks Oceanpine for the comprehensive list!!!
Fooled said
Nov 28, 2016
Detachment for me is working on me to be the best version of me. At the same time, it's allowing all others to be as they are and to grow as they will when/if they choose to do so. It took me a long time in recovery to understand how much PAUSE helps me to do this. I was one who always said, "Make sure you......" or "Have you considered ....." or "Others might say ......." - I worked my backside off trying to control others and manipulate an outcome I desired without malice or conscious intent often!!!! More often than I knew.
How is it that sometimes you say exactly what I want to say, or I think I want to say, but not quite sure if that's what I want to say, so instead I say something contrite?
Iamhere said
Nov 28, 2016
Suzann - for me, the only way I had success is practice, practice, and practice more.....Also, the Pause I often mention has been critical to my responding vs. reacting. Before recovery, I not only reacting, my facial expressions and body language lined right up. Most of my reactions clearly spoke to 'them' being the problem or how completely insane their thoughts/actions/words sounded. I did not have a good poker face at all!
Also, when I began using the tools, my qualifiers did not like this change. Any different move I made seemed to throw them off 'their game' and disrupt the dance we had done for so, so long. Mentally, for me, I had to act as if I was at work or doing a business deal to minimize my habit of extreme emotional reactions. The pause step helps me breathe in, ask God for assistance/guidance and then respond in a gently softer way.
HTH - detaching isn't always easy at first. When we begin to feel how it works, it gets easier with practice!
KT2015 said
Nov 29, 2016
Hi VVV
I will jump in as well. So many great responses. How I practice detachment has evolved over the time I have been in the program. Detachment to me means giving the person I love the dignity to make their own decisions and to learn from the consequences. The same dignity I have in my own life. At first detachment to me was letting go and leaving him alone. My AH would often say he needed me too. He seemed to feel very abandoned and I can understand that. I started to ask him what he would like from me and then consider each request he made and decide for myself if I could or could not do it. In my case my AH never demanded that I do most of the things that I just naturally did. And when I asked him for what he wanted from me he usually wanted me to listen to him about something, offer suggestions around solutions to his problems or for a little assistance from time to time. Most of his requests were actually reasonable and I felt comfortable stating what I could and could not do. I also clarified what I would like him to start doing for himself. We had a great dialogue about the equity in responsibility around the house. He still felt a little lost when I detached but that question helped us navigate it better. It also helped me see that what I perceived he wanted from me he never asked for. He never once asked me to intervene when he was drunk to smooth things over with people, or to anticipate his every need and attend to it, or to monitor his drinking and report back to him how much he drank, or to make dinner every single night and jump in and rescue him on the rare occasion he was struggling, or to take on too much responsibility around the house so he had nothing to do. All those things I did myself without being asked. Detachment with love came slowly and it was bumpy but I find myself in a more equitable relationship than the relationship I started with. I also find myself more open to trying things his way. HE makes decisions that I wouldn't have made and when they work out I tell him that. I give him honest positive feedback for the things he does that are amazing that have NOTHING to do with me. After practicing it for a while I can see how much my trying to control things really took away from him and I never would have seen that before. Turns out he's quite capable of doing things on his own. And the most amazing thing I see is him trying to manage his own drinking which is something he never did in the past. He talks about wanting to cut back, he has even started to track it and see how much he is drinking for himself. These aren't the steps I would take or recommend he take but it's not my drinking and it's not my problem to fix. When I was so judgemental about it I really treated him like he wasn't capable of managing it and he lived right up to my expectation. I am so thankful to the program for teaching me this skill.
Jerry F said
Nov 29, 2016
For me when I learned what it was and is with understanding and experience (practice, practice, practice) detachment became and "Artform"; a magical, mysterious, miraculous way of living inside of life without being attached and stuck to any part of it. Detachment was and is within "choice" ...I do or I don't; will or I won't be a part of what is going on around me. It comes with the acknowledgement that I will be and am willing to live with the consequences of my choices even when I understand too that I have the choice of changing my mind and commitment anytime I find it is best for myself and others also involved. Detachment is one of the greatest tools taught to me by the program of the Al-Anon Family Groups for which I am grateful. (((hugs)))
ive read quite a few books as well as writing on here...what exactly is detachmen? The way I see it is that you can still love someone and support, but not run to their aide. I've been working very hard on this and it's even harder because I do not think active alcoholics understand, which makes it even harder...what I have been doing with my detachment is walking away. From the situation when I cannot emotionally handle it anymore and when I feel as though it is no longer healthy to engage. when my A starts talking about how he needs me there to help him and he says he can't do it without me I never know what to say...i try to just tell him it's about you for you to make your life better, but he just says he wants me in his life and doesn't want to sit around and wait. I'm fine with that because I believe in fate and if we're meant to be he'll get sober on his own and if it's meant to be its meant to be.
I cut and pasted, below, a post about detachment that was shared here recently.
You are right, in my experience, in active alcoholics not understanding it. My A, who is my soon-to-be ex, AH, actually blames detachment for the demise of our marriage. On his bad days, he will yell at me that I "detached with indifference" and indifference killed our marriage. I am sure I did not do it well, as in the early day I really struggled to understand what detachment is. And, I think it can come across as indifference, as I tried to not go down with the ship. But, I tried my best. Still, those words sting.
Detachment is neither kind nor unkind. It does not imply judgement or condemnation of the person or situation from which we are detaching. Seperating ourselves from the adverse effects of another person alcoholism can be a means of detaching: this does not neccessarily require physical seperation. Detachment can help us look at our situations realistically and objectively.
Alcoholism is a family disease. Living with the effects of someone else's drinking is devastating for most people to bear without help.
In Al-Anon we learn nothing we say or do can cause or stop someones else's drinking. We are not responsible for another person's disease or recovery from it.
Detatchment allows us to let go of our obsession with another's behavior and begin to lead happier and more manageable lives, lives with dignity and rights, lives guided by a Power greater than ourselves. We can still love the person without liking the behavior.
IN AL-ANON WE LEARN:
*Not to suffer because of the actions or reactions of other people
*Not to allow ourselves to be used or abused by others in the interest of another's recovery
*Not to do for others what they can do for themselves
*Not to manipulate situations so others will eat, go to bed, get up, pay bills, not drink, or behave to see fit
*Not to cover up another's mistakes or misdeeds
*Not to create a crisis
*Not to prevent a crisis if it is in the natural course of events
By learning to focus on ourselves, our attitudes and well-being improve. We allow the alcoholics in our lives to experience the consequences of their own actions.
I really like your response, Mcat. Much of what you said struck a cord with me. I especially like what you wrote about not having a life facilitator smoothing the way for you. Absolutely correct!!! I don't have someone planning, organizing, and connecting all the dots for me.
Although I am soooo much better at not mentioning things that need to be / could be done around the house, I still keep my AH's life running pretty smoothly. It really is for US, but there are things I could still be hands off about.
I liked your post about detachment. Thank you.
-- Edited by El on Saturday 26th of November 2016 09:05:51 AM
Thank you, vvv, for this topic and to Oceanpine and El for your great examples of how detachment works. It is certainly something I have struggled with. When I first heard about the concept, I was frustrated that I could not "detach with love" right away.
I learned from a sponsor and other Al-anons to be gentle with myself and to remember "Progress, not perfection." The journey to detachment may be long, and I believe it is OK to start with indifference as a first stage, and to appreciate ourselves for efforts and forgive ourselves for slip-ups. We are trying, and one day at a time getting closer to detachment with love.
My example is, a couple of years ago on Thanksgiving, when my late AH asked for wine, I just said the 3 C's to myself, walked out of the room, and took the dog for a walk. I let someone else bring him wine instead of me doing it. I didn't really feel detached or loving at all, but I was "acting as if."
For me, learning more about the disease of alcoholism gave me more empathy for what the alcoholic is up against, that it is not easy for them even when they reach the point that they want to change. Still, we do have to protect ourselves and our personal sanity, so whatever does that -- be it stepping away physically or whatever we need to do -- we owe it to ourselves to protect our own spirit.
Today, when my qualifier is venting, I can just say, "I am sorry you are hurting." Even if they are blaming me. I have been able to detach enough to rise above the disease and take the high road. I feel deep down that we are all children of HP - and everyone deserves love, kindness, respect and compassion. No matter how insane what they are saying/doing is, I do not ever have to join in, try to reason or even own a small piece of it. I can visualize a hula-hoop, trust my HP has got me safe and respond or not from my own safe place.
(((Hugs))) to all - thanks Oceanpine for the comprehensive list!!!
How is it that sometimes you say exactly what I want to say, or I think I want to say, but not quite sure if that's what I want to say, so instead I say something contrite?
Also, when I began using the tools, my qualifiers did not like this change. Any different move I made seemed to throw them off 'their game' and disrupt the dance we had done for so, so long. Mentally, for me, I had to act as if I was at work or doing a business deal to minimize my habit of extreme emotional reactions. The pause step helps me breathe in, ask God for assistance/guidance and then respond in a gently softer way.
HTH - detaching isn't always easy at first. When we begin to feel how it works, it gets easier with practice!
I will jump in as well. So many great responses. How I practice detachment has evolved over the time I have been in the program. Detachment to me means giving the person I love the dignity to make their own decisions and to learn from the consequences. The same dignity I have in my own life. At first detachment to me was letting go and leaving him alone. My AH would often say he needed me too. He seemed to feel very abandoned and I can understand that. I started to ask him what he would like from me and then consider each request he made and decide for myself if I could or could not do it. In my case my AH never demanded that I do most of the things that I just naturally did. And when I asked him for what he wanted from me he usually wanted me to listen to him about something, offer suggestions around solutions to his problems or for a little assistance from time to time. Most of his requests were actually reasonable and I felt comfortable stating what I could and could not do. I also clarified what I would like him to start doing for himself. We had a great dialogue about the equity in responsibility around the house. He still felt a little lost when I detached but that question helped us navigate it better. It also helped me see that what I perceived he wanted from me he never asked for. He never once asked me to intervene when he was drunk to smooth things over with people, or to anticipate his every need and attend to it, or to monitor his drinking and report back to him how much he drank, or to make dinner every single night and jump in and rescue him on the rare occasion he was struggling, or to take on too much responsibility around the house so he had nothing to do. All those things I did myself without being asked. Detachment with love came slowly and it was bumpy but I find myself in a more equitable relationship than the relationship I started with. I also find myself more open to trying things his way. HE makes decisions that I wouldn't have made and when they work out I tell him that. I give him honest positive feedback for the things he does that are amazing that have NOTHING to do with me. After practicing it for a while I can see how much my trying to control things really took away from him and I never would have seen that before. Turns out he's quite capable of doing things on his own. And the most amazing thing I see is him trying to manage his own drinking which is something he never did in the past. He talks about wanting to cut back, he has even started to track it and see how much he is drinking for himself. These aren't the steps I would take or recommend he take but it's not my drinking and it's not my problem to fix. When I was so judgemental about it I really treated him like he wasn't capable of managing it and he lived right up to my expectation. I am so thankful to the program for teaching me this skill.
For me when I learned what it was and is with understanding and experience (practice, practice, practice) detachment became and "Artform"; a magical, mysterious, miraculous way of living inside of life without being attached and stuck to any part of it. Detachment was and is within "choice" ...I do or I don't; will or I won't be a part of what is going on around me. It comes with the acknowledgement that I will be and am willing to live with the consequences of my choices even when I understand too that I have the choice of changing my mind and commitment anytime I find it is best for myself and others also involved. Detachment is one of the greatest tools taught to me by the program of the Al-Anon Family Groups for which I am grateful. (((hugs)))