Is it more difficult for a diagnosed narcissist to recover from Alcohol addiction and divorce? My loved one was a secret alcoholic. Anyone else dealt with a secret alcoholic?
SerenityRUS said
Nov 17, 2016
I had a binge drinker which was extremely deceptive because it wasn't daily .. 1 was to many and 100 wasn't enough. I think having to face the disease for any addict is hard. Dealing with truth vs the lies they tell themselves makes things awful with divorce or breakups. I find narcissistic behavior to go with the territory of addiction. That's just my experience. Hugs.
Lucy125 said
Nov 17, 2016
Thanks that makes a lot of sense.
Suburban Denizen said
Nov 18, 2016
I'll add my agreement to SerenityRUS - the substance abuse helps the narcissist in a mood of "better than...". My Sig Other is in recovery, and he has replaced alcohol with being a professor of all things 12-Step related. He grades me on my program in Al-Anon, and I never get a passing grade, let alone come close to matching his self-proclaiimed perfection.
They may be sober, but they're still narcissists.
(((Lucy)))
SerenityRUS said
Nov 18, 2016
I'm not a doctor by any means and I am taking someone else's inventory. I habe wondered if my X suffers from boarder line personality disorder just based upon behavior. Nothing is ever his responsibility. If he did something and was wrong it was someone else's fault. So these are things that I am aware of when dealing with him. For me it's better to make him feel as if he's "winning" in Charlie Sheen's terms and then he is more reasonable. Hugs. It has been am uphill battle for me .. Some of that was me on terms of I needed to be healthier.
Lucy125 said
Nov 18, 2016
Here's the frustration, maybe this is breaking step one. I am not God. I have my own psychological issues.
The thing is Narcissism and Borderline ARE NOT DISEASES. They are the way the personality is formed. They are not in and of themselves illness. These people are not mentally ill. It takes a lot of work to change a personality, and let's face it Narcissists don't think there is anything wrong. I think, at least for a Narcissist, the bottle of alcohol or pills is just a source of narcissistic supply for them. Other people drink for other reasons, and the program might be more successful for them.
Even if BPD and NPD person stop drinking, they are still that person. They still have that same personality. One of my friends from High School is diagnosed with Borderline personality. She had a drinking problem and lost her job and ran off and her kids snatched her up in another state and put her in rehab. She seems better.
My brother is dead, but I don't know that there will ever be an closure. These personality disorders are about 50 percent genetic. The only hope I can see is to try when child is small to help them form a less problematic personality. Once that personality is formed, I am not sure there's much that can be done. I think these people have a hard time recovering from Alcohol abuse. It's hard for the family too, we love them, but we can't do anything. I stood helpless watching this unfold.
SerenityRUS said
Nov 18, 2016
I agree with your assessment however if a person wants help and is willing to do the work .. They can learn to recognize and change the behavior. The ones who see nothing wrong with their behavior won't get help. It's no different than the addict or me .. Until I get sick and tired of being sick and tired nothing will change. Hugs.
Lucy125 said
Nov 18, 2016
Thank you... I am not sure why some people are not willing to do the work. I guess I'll never know. My brother went to several psychologists and they were not able to help him. He was apparently hiding the alcohol from them It's hard to get help, when people don't know the facts. I am not sure why he went to a psychologist other than to make his kids feel guilty, if he wasn't going to be honest with them. Perhaps he was using the psychologist as source of narcissistic supply.
This is a literal phone conversation I had with my brother. He said. " I am special, I have a high tolerance for things. The doctor told me I am one of select group of people that can take a lot of medicine." He proceeded to tell me he was only drinking one or two drinks. (little did I know his one drink was a whole bottle) I did not ask, he just said that. He said my doctor told me I couldn't have one or two drinks. Well then, I said, do as the doctor says. Once he told me "one or two drinks" was better than any antidepressants. (again I guess he meant a whole bottle)
He really thought he was special and not like the rest of us humans that should only take one pill or one (small) drink.
SerenityRUS said
Nov 18, 2016
I think me questioning why my X does what he does goes back to a very basic truth .. He does what he does because he's an addict. He's doing what addicts do. In his case it's pills and drinking was/are the vices. I have no idea if anything had changed reality is .. For me his behavior shows me it hasn't changed.
el-cee said
Nov 18, 2016
For me I've got to keep it simple. Your brother sounds to me like he was an alcoholic. When I start down the road of labels that are about personalities and supposedly fixed then where is the hope? I remember trying desperately to put a name to whatever it was my ex husband had. I only got peace and so did he when we both accepted he was an alcoholic.
hotrod said
Nov 18, 2016
I agree LC, it is important to abide by tradition 10, which states; "we have no opinion on outside issues & name on never be drawn into public controversy."
There are many online tests that people can take to determine if there are an alcoholic, and it is important to note that both AA and Al-Anon refuse to judge anyone alcoholic. Both programs make it clear that the person who is drinking alcohol is the one that must determine if they are an alcoholic or not. This is because only they know the truth of their inner drives. Alcoholism is a complicated disease and the original AA big book clearly notes that therapy does not work for the alcoholic because they spend most of their time attempting to con the therapist and not recover.
Lucy125 said
Nov 18, 2016
That explains a lot of why the psychologist did not help him. He was diagnosed with Narcissistic personality disorder BEFORE the drinking began, that was after his divorce and he went to get therapy. He started drinking late in life in his mid forties. His friends were very stunned as they knew him for years and he was never a big drinker. Unfortunately, NPD BPD and other things also occur with alcohol abuse. One of my friends told me her son said he was an alcoholic and he quit drinking by himself. I guess there might be a fine line between alcoholic and problem drinker and we can't decide where that is at.
-- Edited by Lucy125 on Friday 18th of November 2016 07:04:01 PM
Is it more difficult for a diagnosed narcissist to recover from Alcohol addiction and divorce? My loved one was a secret alcoholic. Anyone else dealt with a secret alcoholic?
Thanks that makes a lot of sense.
They may be sober, but they're still narcissists.
(((Lucy)))
Here's the frustration, maybe this is breaking step one. I am not God. I have my own psychological issues.
The thing is Narcissism and Borderline ARE NOT DISEASES. They are the way the personality is formed. They are not in and of themselves illness. These people are not mentally ill. It takes a lot of work to change a personality, and let's face it Narcissists don't think there is anything wrong. I think, at least for a Narcissist, the bottle of alcohol or pills is just a source of narcissistic supply for them. Other people drink for other reasons, and the program might be more successful for them.
Even if BPD and NPD person stop drinking, they are still that person. They still have that same personality. One of my friends from High School is diagnosed with Borderline personality. She had a drinking problem and lost her job and ran off and her kids snatched her up in another state and put her in rehab. She seems better.
My brother is dead, but I don't know that there will ever be an closure. These personality disorders are about 50 percent genetic. The only hope I can see is to try when child is small to help them form a less problematic personality. Once that personality is formed, I am not sure there's much that can be done. I think these people have a hard time recovering from Alcohol abuse. It's hard for the family too, we love them, but we can't do anything. I stood helpless watching this unfold.
Thank you... I am not sure why some people are not willing to do the work. I guess I'll never know. My brother went to several psychologists and they were not able to help him. He was apparently hiding the alcohol from them It's hard to get help, when people don't know the facts. I am not sure why he went to a psychologist other than to make his kids feel guilty, if he wasn't going to be honest with them. Perhaps he was using the psychologist as source of narcissistic supply.
This is a literal phone conversation I had with my brother. He said. " I am special, I have a high tolerance for things. The doctor told me I am one of select group of people that can take a lot of medicine." He proceeded to tell me he was only drinking one or two drinks. (little did I know his one drink was a whole bottle) I did not ask, he just said that. He said my doctor told me I couldn't have one or two drinks. Well then, I said, do as the doctor says. Once he told me "one or two drinks" was better than any antidepressants. (again I guess he meant a whole bottle)
He really thought he was special and not like the rest of us humans that should only take one pill or one (small) drink.
I agree LC, it is important to abide by tradition 10, which states; "we have no opinion on outside issues & name on never be drawn into public controversy."
There are many online tests that people can take to determine if there are an alcoholic, and it is important to note that both AA and Al-Anon refuse to judge anyone alcoholic. Both programs make it clear that the person who is drinking alcohol is the one that must determine if they are an alcoholic or not. This is because only they know the truth of their inner drives. Alcoholism is a complicated disease and the original AA big book clearly notes that therapy does not work for the alcoholic because they spend most of their time attempting to con the therapist and not recover.
That explains a lot of why the psychologist did not help him. He was diagnosed with Narcissistic personality disorder BEFORE the drinking began, that was after his divorce and he went to get therapy. He started drinking late in life in his mid forties. His friends were very stunned as they knew him for years and he was never a big drinker. Unfortunately, NPD BPD and other things also occur with alcohol abuse. One of my friends told me her son said he was an alcoholic and he quit drinking by himself. I guess there might be a fine line between alcoholic and problem drinker and we can't decide where that is at.
-- Edited by Lucy125 on Friday 18th of November 2016 07:04:01 PM