Blame is useless. It's all about spinning the wheels.
Accountability is different. I should have held the person in my life accountable. When his behavior was bad, long before the alcohol, I should have said, and calmly stated how I wanted to be treated. I was afraid of confrontation. I just didn't want to hear the hassle and that is my fault. I failed him in a way, by not putting limits on the way I was being treated.
IMO not holding myself, and others accountable and my passive way of accepting bad behaviors enabled this disaster. Everyone else still had their choices, but I did not do my part. I resolve to do better, to speak my mind calmly, and refuse to allow myself to be treated like a doormat.
el-cee said
Nov 14, 2016
I think I understand what your saying and I think it's when we become aware of how we have enabled destructive behaviours allowing the disease to progress. I had to learn that I did the best with what I knew at the time. I knew nothing of alcoholism as a disease and it's progressive nature. I believed I had power over it and all I needed to do was try extra hard or say the right thing at the right time in the right way on the right day of the week and on and on. We are powerless we aren't big enough to cause it or control it or cure it. You could have held him responsible for his own behaviour bit your fears stopped you. The good news is you can see your own part but unfortunately the power over all of it has been firmly in his hands and no one else's. X
Jerry F said
Nov 14, 2016
Mahalo Piha Lucy and El Cee for this early morning lesson on awareness. I'm taking it personally and that is how I grow. ((((hugs))))
Lucy125 said
Nov 14, 2016
My brother's alcoholism started late. He was in his mid/late 40's. I think his narcissistic personality disorder started many years ago. I was powerless over the alcohol, but I think when he was showing bad behavior with the NPD. I enabled his personality disorder long before the drinking started. There's a lot of reasons people drink. For him I think it was his NPD, divorce and the high stress of his job where he saw people get hurt and die.(PTSD)
HE hid is drinking well. None of his friends knew, nobody knew but his kids and presumably his doctor. Someone told me covert Narcissists secretly drink a lot. They can't stand the pain of not living up to their perfect image. These people are afraid to ask for help, because it would mar their image.
el-cee said
Nov 14, 2016
Im not too sure about narcissism. I only learned about alcoholism and ive learned its like a hole inside the person that they fill with drink in order to feel more comfortable. I identify with the hole and also the perfectionism you talk about. I listen to a lot of aa speakers on youtube and ive learned so much about the reasons for the drinking and most seem to say they have always felt like an outsider, outside their family from a young age or outside society, not quite belonging and the drink is only a part of this disease, its a disease of the mind body and spirit and i get that because i also have this disease minus the drink but that empty hole inside me has been filled with food, cigarettes, studying, the gym, sex etc you name it. Im trying really hard to fill the hole with this spiritual programme.
Lucy125 said
Nov 14, 2016
Alcoholism was different for my brother. He was extremely handsome. Extremely so... He was very very talented, high IQ. He as the darling and golden one of the family. He was good at sports. He was good at everything. He was popular had every friend you could want. He had any girlfriend he wanted. The family and the community had nothing but praise for him. If he had a conflict with the teacher or the coach it was their fault. Nothing was ever his fault, ever.
I was the outsider. I barely had any friends. I was average looking. I could do no right. I liked things other people in my family did not like. I liked music and books. I was considered odd. Nobody noticed me. I got depressed. Always trying and being ignored takes it's toll. My mom dropped me off at a psychologist to fix me. I never took drugs, but I often felt suicidal. It's painful to be ignored all the time.
My brother had a decided lack of empathy. I wouldn't think of asking him for help, as he would laugh in my face and bully me. I think this is how narcissism develops. They think they are special, their real self gets hidden away and they have to be this perfect person everyone believes them to be.
My brother got married and had a high stress job. He was good at it. The wife was not a nice person. She bullied me continually. I would rarely see them and when I did I had panic attacks. I liked their children, but was not really allowed to have a relationship with them because I considered weird and a bad influence. I barely got by at work. I had a college degree but not one scrap of confidence.
I met my husband. He was normal. We got married and I gradually started to get well. I would imitate my husband to act normal. He was nice to me and did not belittle me. His family lived far away, but they were nice people. I liked them a lot. My brother and his wife disliked my husband and tried to break us up. It didn't work. My parents liked my husband.
My brother's marriage went bad. I tried to help him. He came to stay with me. I tried to find him a place. I tried to have a relationship with his kids. By this time, I had small children and elderly parents and could only do so much. That's when my brother started drinking really really bad. He lost his kids, his wife and his job. I did my best to help him, but I was so busy, I couldn't do all that much. He called me crying in the middle of the night a lot. I did my best to be there for him.
This continued, until I found out about the Alcohol abuse and his death. I really think it was the narcissism and the inability to be perfect that caused his problem. He couldn't ask for help because he had to be perfect. The real problem in his case was NPD. Narcissism is the exact opposite of CoDependency. One is too much esteem the other is not enough. Both are bad.
Blame is useless. It's all about spinning the wheels.
Accountability is different. I should have held the person in my life accountable. When his behavior was bad, long before the alcohol, I should have said, and calmly stated how I wanted to be treated. I was afraid of confrontation. I just didn't want to hear the hassle and that is my fault. I failed him in a way, by not putting limits on the way I was being treated.
IMO not holding myself, and others accountable and my passive way of accepting bad behaviors enabled this disaster. Everyone else still had their choices, but I did not do my part. I resolve to do better, to speak my mind calmly, and refuse to allow myself to be treated like a doormat.
Mahalo Piha Lucy and El Cee for this early morning lesson on awareness. I'm taking it personally and that is how I grow. ((((hugs))))
My brother's alcoholism started late. He was in his mid/late 40's. I think his narcissistic personality disorder started many years ago. I was powerless over the alcohol, but I think when he was showing bad behavior with the NPD. I enabled his personality disorder long before the drinking started. There's a lot of reasons people drink. For him I think it was his NPD, divorce and the high stress of his job where he saw people get hurt and die.(PTSD)
HE hid is drinking well. None of his friends knew, nobody knew but his kids and presumably his doctor. Someone told me covert Narcissists secretly drink a lot. They can't stand the pain of not living up to their perfect image. These people are afraid to ask for help, because it would mar their image.
Alcoholism was different for my brother. He was extremely handsome. Extremely so... He was very very talented, high IQ. He as the darling and golden one of the family. He was good at sports. He was good at everything. He was popular had every friend you could want. He had any girlfriend he wanted. The family and the community had nothing but praise for him. If he had a conflict with the teacher or the coach it was their fault. Nothing was ever his fault, ever.
I was the outsider. I barely had any friends. I was average looking. I could do no right. I liked things other people in my family did not like. I liked music and books. I was considered odd. Nobody noticed me. I got depressed. Always trying and being ignored takes it's toll. My mom dropped me off at a psychologist to fix me. I never took drugs, but I often felt suicidal. It's painful to be ignored all the time.
My brother had a decided lack of empathy. I wouldn't think of asking him for help, as he would laugh in my face and bully me. I think this is how narcissism develops. They think they are special, their real self gets hidden away and they have to be this perfect person everyone believes them to be.
My brother got married and had a high stress job. He was good at it. The wife was not a nice person. She bullied me continually. I would rarely see them and when I did I had panic attacks. I liked their children, but was not really allowed to have a relationship with them because I considered weird and a bad influence. I barely got by at work. I had a college degree but not one scrap of confidence.
I met my husband. He was normal. We got married and I gradually started to get well. I would imitate my husband to act normal. He was nice to me and did not belittle me. His family lived far away, but they were nice people. I liked them a lot. My brother and his wife disliked my husband and tried to break us up. It didn't work. My parents liked my husband.
My brother's marriage went bad. I tried to help him. He came to stay with me. I tried to find him a place. I tried to have a relationship with his kids. By this time, I had small children and elderly parents and could only do so much. That's when my brother started drinking really really bad. He lost his kids, his wife and his job. I did my best to help him, but I was so busy, I couldn't do all that much. He called me crying in the middle of the night a lot. I did my best to be there for him.
This continued, until I found out about the Alcohol abuse and his death. I really think it was the narcissism and the inability to be perfect that caused his problem. He couldn't ask for help because he had to be perfect. The real problem in his case was NPD. Narcissism is the exact opposite of CoDependency. One is too much esteem the other is not enough. Both are bad.