I believe more than anything, this idea of 100 percent perfection or 100 percent failure caused my brother to die. Apparently, the people who knew he was alcoholic, said he tried to quit, but would quickly become discouraged after a relapse. He clearly needed professional help, but was afraid, because of his NPD that he would be viewed as less than perfect.
I wish he could have viewed relapse as a temporary setback, because of his black and white thinking it was all or nothing. So he gave up on quitting concluding he could not do it.
I am working really hard on my own black and white thinking.
pinkchip said
Nov 12, 2016
That is alcoholism in a nutshell. He probably needed AA more than anything but people go round and round trying to quit on their own when alcoholism is too powerful to break without a lot of help. I had to humble myself big time.
-- Edited by pinkchip on Saturday 12th of November 2016 06:39:20 PM
Lucy125 said
Nov 12, 2016
Humility that is the word. Wow... I have confronted that pride. I told everyone the truth of what happened. I was SO shocked at the number of people that came to me and said, I fear for my son, my daughter my friend.... STUNNING.
I can't tell anymore lies, all the lies have been told. Imagine how hard it was for Bill W. and Dr. Bob.
el-cee said
Nov 13, 2016
I agree black and white thinking locks us in to faulty belief systems. its difficult to look at our thinking objectively. we get attached to our old way of thinking believing we are right and we listen or look out for anything that confirms our rightness. anything that challenges us is quickly rejected with all sorts of justifications. is this denial? i spent many years distorting the truth to fit into my life made on pretence. i believe it was just too painful to unlock the truth door, what the hell would i find if i let it in, i believed the guilt would kill me. ive got alanon to thank for offering me a way to unlock the truth that was gradual and filled with tools to allow it to come into the light without it all being my fault.
Im sorry your brother took his denial right to the end, i think many many people alcoholics or not die without awareness, its so sad and i so wish we could just hand this gift over. i often desperately want to inject my son with this 12 step program but im powerless. i hope your getting some peace during this difficult time and please dont allow any of that old i should have done...... type of thinking in.x
Iamhere said
Nov 13, 2016
My own black and white thinking set the stage for misery often/always. In my distorted thinking, people and events were either right or wrong, good or bad, productive or wasteful. The program gave me shades of gray and opened my eyes and my heart to the reality I don't know anything about what's best for others, and often even for myself.
Black and white thinking allowed me to put myself and some others on pedestals that were not realistic. Black and white thinking allowed me to think it acceptable to talk bad about others, judge them, dismiss them even because they were sick or different than me. Black and white thinking gave me liberty to JADE all over, offer unsolicited advice and most importantly wallow in my own self-pity for my circumstances.
Choosing recovery made all the difference in how I view past events, present situations and my hopeful future. I no longer care about right/wrong beyond my own spiritual journey and it's so freeing. I no longer look at others are good/bad, sick/well, active/in recovery/dry, etc. I detest labels as I feel we are imperfect humans have no right to use them. To me, it's still name-calling even if it's a societal-accepted term.
I see all as imperfect and doing their best. I prefer gratitude and serenity over being right and I love problem solving with program/spiritual tools instead of my distorted tool set of before. I am beyond grateful for our program and those who were patient with me as I learned a different way.
(((Hugs))) to all!
Lucy125 said
Nov 13, 2016
This is so helpful to me. I did some judging too. I am sorry you cannot change the destructive course of this Alcoholism. (step 1) My 15 year old son is a lot more savvy than I thought he was.
My brother was in a job where he could not save a certain person. Person was murdered, and he could not get there in time. My son said to me: I think that incident was a huge problem for him, because it challenge his core belief that he was powerful. He could not concentrate on the good he did and allow himself to be less than perfect. I told my son, I hope you make good choices in life and correct your behavior. He said: don't worry mom, I know my limits. Grandma tells me I am good at everything and beautiful, but I know that it is not so. I know that is not true. I am good at some things and I don't know everything. I know that I sometimes I don't know.
I guess I was telling myself stories. I believed that things could go back to the way they were years ago. In fact, I had a dream, and I was back before all this started about 10 years ago. I saw my nephews and nieces as they were. My dad was there. My dad knew things were going bad. My dad said to me in the dream, enjoy the memory as it was, but it was never true.
Iamhere said
Nov 13, 2016
(((Anne))) - your son does sound wise beyond his years.....great wisdom and humility - it will carry him far that he knows he has limits and how to ask for help. I believe we all want to see the best in those we love. I believe there is goodness in those with this disease. I'm sorry your brother had a life event that may have changed his course. Be gentle with you and know that there is always hope and help in recovery.....sending you continued prayers and positive thoughts!
Lucy125 said
Nov 15, 2016
There's a lot of destruction that was caused by this alcoholism. I am not sure how we will ever get over it. I hope my son stays the course. We all have a personality quirks. Narcissism is a very destructive force and when combined with alcohol, I am not sure there's ever a good outcome. It's sad for us, due to the lost potential and misery for him. I am sorry that happier days were not to be for him. That hurts me more than I can say.
I believe more than anything, this idea of 100 percent perfection or 100 percent failure caused my brother to die. Apparently, the people who knew he was alcoholic, said he tried to quit, but would quickly become discouraged after a relapse. He clearly needed professional help, but was afraid, because of his NPD that he would be viewed as less than perfect.
I wish he could have viewed relapse as a temporary setback, because of his black and white thinking it was all or nothing. So he gave up on quitting concluding he could not do it.
I am working really hard on my own black and white thinking.
That is alcoholism in a nutshell. He probably needed AA more than anything but people go round and round trying to quit on their own when alcoholism is too powerful to break without a lot of help. I had to humble myself big time.
-- Edited by pinkchip on Saturday 12th of November 2016 06:39:20 PM
Humility that is the word. Wow... I have confronted that pride. I told everyone the truth of what happened. I was SO shocked at the number of people that came to me and said, I fear for my son, my daughter my friend.... STUNNING.
I can't tell anymore lies, all the lies have been told. Imagine how hard it was for Bill W. and Dr. Bob.
I agree black and white thinking locks us in to faulty belief systems. its difficult to look at our thinking objectively. we get attached to our old way of thinking believing we are right and we listen or look out for anything that confirms our rightness. anything that challenges us is quickly rejected with all sorts of justifications. is this denial? i spent many years distorting the truth to fit into my life made on pretence. i believe it was just too painful to unlock the truth door, what the hell would i find if i let it in, i believed the guilt would kill me. ive got alanon to thank for offering me a way to unlock the truth that was gradual and filled with tools to allow it to come into the light without it all being my fault.
Im sorry your brother took his denial right to the end, i think many many people alcoholics or not die without awareness, its so sad and i so wish we could just hand this gift over. i often desperately want to inject my son with this 12 step program but im powerless. i hope your getting some peace during this difficult time and please dont allow any of that old i should have done...... type of thinking in.x
Black and white thinking allowed me to put myself and some others on pedestals that were not realistic. Black and white thinking allowed me to think it acceptable to talk bad about others, judge them, dismiss them even because they were sick or different than me. Black and white thinking gave me liberty to JADE all over, offer unsolicited advice and most importantly wallow in my own self-pity for my circumstances.
Choosing recovery made all the difference in how I view past events, present situations and my hopeful future. I no longer care about right/wrong beyond my own spiritual journey and it's so freeing. I no longer look at others are good/bad, sick/well, active/in recovery/dry, etc. I detest labels as I feel we are imperfect humans have no right to use them. To me, it's still name-calling even if it's a societal-accepted term.
I see all as imperfect and doing their best. I prefer gratitude and serenity over being right and I love problem solving with program/spiritual tools instead of my distorted tool set of before. I am beyond grateful for our program and those who were patient with me as I learned a different way.
(((Hugs))) to all!
This is so helpful to me. I did some judging too. I am sorry you cannot change the destructive course of this Alcoholism. (step 1) My 15 year old son is a lot more savvy than I thought he was.
My brother was in a job where he could not save a certain person. Person was murdered, and he could not get there in time. My son said to me: I think that incident was a huge problem for him, because it challenge his core belief that he was powerful. He could not concentrate on the good he did and allow himself to be less than perfect. I told my son, I hope you make good choices in life and correct your behavior. He said: don't worry mom, I know my limits. Grandma tells me I am good at everything and beautiful, but I know that it is not so. I know that is not true. I am good at some things and I don't know everything. I know that I sometimes I don't know.
I guess I was telling myself stories. I believed that things could go back to the way they were years ago. In fact, I had a dream, and I was back before all this started about 10 years ago. I saw my nephews and nieces as they were. My dad was there. My dad knew things were going bad. My dad said to me in the dream, enjoy the memory as it was, but it was never true.
There's a lot of destruction that was caused by this alcoholism. I am not sure how we will ever get over it. I hope my son stays the course. We all have a personality quirks. Narcissism is a very destructive force and when combined with alcohol, I am not sure there's ever a good outcome. It's sad for us, due to the lost potential and misery for him. I am sorry that happier days were not to be for him. That hurts me more than I can say.