How to know if a particular meeting is right or wrong for you
moonriver said
Oct 28, 2016
Recently, I have begun speaking my truth. In my home group meeting this week a member announced she was going to piggyback on another's share. I said, "Hi, I'm moonriver, and I believe piggy backing is a form of cross talk." The person began to pack her things to leave. I added "Correct me if I'm wrong." The person left, and two people came up to me at the end of the meeting and thanked me for making the statement. However, most members avoided me even though they have been very friendly to me for the year that I have been attending the meeting. A therapist friend has advised me that this is not a good meeting for me to continue to attend as most did not like my action. When crosstalk occurs or when one member dominates the meeting, as happens frequently, I feel unsafe as I did when I was a child growing up in a dysfunctional home with a domineering father. Any thoughts to help me in my decision-making process of continuing or not with this particular meeting? My intuition is saying that I should find another home meeting and "easy does it."
Calm Lady said
Oct 29, 2016
Sorry you have had this experience. I would like to share that I briefly attended a group, that to me, felt toxic and very sick.
I listened to my body and my intuition. My body literally told me to remove myself so I gently and without fuss, did just that. I then found a warm and comfortable feeling meeting. Which i attend and love.
My feeling was that it was part of my journey to learn to honour my feelings and remove myself from a harmful situation.
Mattie said
Oct 29, 2016
Welcome, Moonriver, glad you have found us. I know that when I first began speaking more truths, as opposed to swallowing them or trying to people-please, I was inexperienced in how to modulate them, and my plain-speaking came across as aggression, even though I didn't mean it that way. What I came to see in my own case is that people are generally sensitive to criticism (whether they're Al-Anoners or not) and that it's helpful to make it clear that we're not rushing to judgement, just trying to figure things out. In other words starting by giving people the benefit of the doubt. So I'm trying to think about your situation and what might have led to a bad reaction on the part of the person who was piggybacking and some others in the meeting. Maybe the one "piggybacker" was just blatantly violating the rules but maybe she hadn't thought about it and had been carefully working up her courage to say something and did so the wrong way. I remember when I was once in that situation and someone barked at me for making a mistake and I am still cringing and feeling shame all these years later, and it has been about 20 years! So I wonder if it might have been more successful at getting your point across by saying, "I'm still feeling my way out in meetings, I'm wondering if referring to a previous member's comments means that that's cross-talk, which I've been told I should avoid? Could you help me understand?" Then you can kind of take the temperature of their response and feel if the meeting is the right one for you. I think all of us in Al-Anon are very liable to feel shame and defensiveness, even when we shouldn't, and to be wary of signs of aggression, because we've felt so much pain at these things in the past. So it makes sense that there would be a lot of tendency to those in others and in ourselves. Just thinking this through. Hope you will take good care of yourself.
hotrod said
Oct 29, 2016
I agree Learning the ins and outs of a meetings protocols does take time. I think that by interrupting the persons share as you did was "cross talk" in itself.
The Chairperson's job is to moderate the meeting and determine if the meeting guidelines are being adhered to. If a member is upset over something that is going on then we can ask for a group conscious or a business meeting- to discus the infraction. If we do not then we run the risk of having someone respond as the member did at your meeting.
To determine if this meeting is right for you, I would ask: Do they hold regular business meetings, practice rotation of leadership, adhere to al anon WSO meeting guidelines?. If so then asking for a business meeting should help to clarify what you are feeling, if not then vote with your feet and leave
Iamhere said
Oct 29, 2016
Welcome to MIP Bonnie - so glad you found us and so glad you joined right in! My home group does frown on cross-talk and with what you described, it most likely would have also been corrected. We strive to always lovingly nudge folks back towards our adopted guidelines.
I have been to other meetings that allow cross-talk at some levels. Again, the group conscious for that meeting has decided the guidelines it wants to follow. It works for that group and I had no issues with it as it was clearly spelled out in the opening.
Most groups realize and focus on the 'loving interchange among members....' that is discussed in our literature. I have been to some groups that are certainly less healthy than others. I do the best I can in recovery to always 'hang with the winners' and avoid members who appear to be stuck in recovery - always focused on their A, unable to see their part, negative constantly, etc.
On the other side of the room (AA) cross-talk is actually allowed and encouraged as it relates to recovery. They focus more on what it was like, what it's like now, and how we got from there to here. Again, I've seen many different meetings and all kinds of sharing. A long time ago, I allowed a few reactions to affect my meeting choices. My sponsor suggested I was again giving my power away and instead of focusing on personalities, I focus on principles.
So....my personal creed is the message. When I feel I am no longer hearing the message intended for any reason, I'll try a different meeting. It's so easy in recovery to become complacent and stop growing and that leads me to restlessness, irritability and internal turmoil. So - I ask myself if I am getting what I need from a meeting, and if so, I keep going.
Recovery is for those who want it. If you are still getting what you need, look at the bigger picture - has it been working for you until now? Is this one experience large enough to consider a change? Is the change for your growth? In recovery, we work so, so hard to not give our power away to others....I try to stay true to me and my recovery when there is uncertainty.
Love that we get to make choices for us. Since your recovery is for you and you only, you get to decide what's next (with HP). Keep coming back here - great first share and glad to have you as part of the MIP family!!
e_i_m said
Oct 29, 2016
Hi moonriver -- I appreciate your question and the responses so far. I did not understand the jargon/lingo of al-anon when I first attended, and it took me a while to learn what the different terms meant, as well as how to share/participate in keeping with the principles. When I had questions, I would ask people at the end of the meeting (who seemed to "get it"), and also went to business meetings (which in my area are usually held monthly at the end of the meeting) and learned some of the ins and outs that way.
As for how to know if a meeting is a good fit -- when I first started attending, I tried out many meetings. I'm really fortunate in that there are multiple meetings per day within about a 45 minute drive of my house. I found that I really liked some and I really disliked others, but I almost always came away with something that I needed. I found that there were personalities who really bugged me -- and I tried to examine what it was that was provoking this strong reaction. When I really dug down, I could see that there were folks there who reminded me of other people in my life -- my parents in particular -- and I could choose to just not go to the same meeting as them, or I could choose to interact with them (and realize they were their own people), or I could make an effort to be extra loving to them. And I could make different choices on different days. There is a meeting that I sometimes go to and sometimes avoid, due to a couple of people there who dominate the meeting and keep the focus on the alcoholic and not on themselves. I get miffed and take that as an opportunity to let go (I don't always engage in the letting go, sometimes I just get really frustrated and wish they would shut up or that "someone" would tell them their time is up) and I often find something of value in what they say, but even if I don't it's valuable for me to go through that process. For me, it's a way to face my control issues, try to surrender more, or try to make a different choice in what meeting I attend.
I see a lot of people on here post that there are not so many meetings near them, so I'm reminded of how lucky I am to be able to choose amongst meetings. Anyway good luck.
pinkchip said
Oct 29, 2016
I don't see "piggy backing" as cross talk so much. I see it as identifying and gaining clarity through fellows in the program. Perhaps could have been worded better, but after YEARS of going to meetings, I have heard that statement before and it typically seems to come from a place of solidarity and feeling moved in a positive way by another. Cross talk is more like literal conversation between people via sharing and dissing the group and meeting in the process (at least in my mind). I also would have felt offended and judged if someone shamed me for what was probably not ill intended. Unity comes first and helping others comes first.
-- Edited by pinkchip on Saturday 29th of October 2016 11:33:08 AM
2HP said
Oct 29, 2016
Great question, I have asked it many times.
Many times, the behaviors of the group stirred up old family abuse and/or dysfunction. I often found myself making the statement to myself, "this should not be like this!"
For me, I find it very helpful to ask myself if my statements and what I am believing... is even true. Is it TRUE that a recovery group should not act dysfunctional?? Today, I laugh when I tell myself that. Indeed, we are a group of dysfunctional control freaks, living in an insane world, affected by the insanity of alcoholism.
I've experienced the traditions interpreted in the most astounding ways by different groups. It came to me as a surprise (perhaps not to you) when I moved to a new area within a new al-anon district where "crosstalk" is a very bad word. Nearly the entire region refers to crosstalk behaviors as "loving interchange" believing people come to al-anon for this "help." Also, the district board here believes it has full authority to tell each (fully autonomous) group how to interpret the traditions and the latest "rule" is to tell which prayers are "no longer allowed." I hear the members gossiping about their qualifiers on the nights they aren't joining us in al-anon... and they do not believe this is true gossip. there's the dominance of the "graduated ones" who insist on sharing last every single week to have the "last word" and summing up the meeting up for the entire group...
Today I am convinced, it's all just a great test from higher power. I had a lightbulb moment when I noticed during these meetings how often the little word "my" was being used.... "my" district "my" home group, "my" fellowship, "my" town, etc. and I recognized something very important to my own recovery. it is a dangerous temptation for me to assume possession of anything, indicated by that little word, "my." Nothing is "mine" not even my own children. I don't own or possess anything and when I attempt to, I find my life feeling quite unmanageable again. everything belongs to God and ESPECIALLY recovery meetings, perfectly imperfect for God can use in any way God wishes.
In another meeting (adult children focus) there are so many meeting rules meant for "protection" that it takes a full 20 minutes to read them all. when I saw how members were still coming in and doing their dysfunctional thing and noticed my reaction to it.... again the light went on in my own head. Despite the attempts to create safety, it was only an illusion of safety, still powerless to get anyone to make me feel safe in the world. I decided for myself, that my perception of safety had to come directly from Higher power, to again not be too attached to anything of this world, only God has all power to provide true safety... another illusion removed from me.
In our closing statement, it says, we aren't perfect. not even our fellowship is meant to be perfect despite our well-meaning traditions. Our fellowship is only human and to me, there is a spiritual purpose for humans not being perfect, it's so I learn ONLY to seek God. Al-anon is only a means for me to get to God, I'm only meant to pass through it and not cling to it, all earthly "attachments" have to fail. Everyone playing their part perfectly so that I can learn, once again, to LET GO. my serenity is in direct proportion to my level of acceptance.
My personal prayer regarding whether or not meetings are "good or bad" for me is usually, "Is there anything more for me to learn here? Can I continue to grow here?" and sometimes, "Let me stay if I can do more for YOU here...."
...depending on where I was at in recovery, no one can answer that for anyone.
but no worries, God is so powerful that whenever I've missed my lessons, it was brought right back to me, served up on a different platter, lol
So grateful to (((all))) for the replies
-- Edited by 2HP on Saturday 29th of October 2016 11:48:11 AM
Recently, I have begun speaking my truth. In my home group meeting this week a member announced she was going to piggyback on another's share. I said, "Hi, I'm moonriver, and I believe piggy backing is a form of cross talk." The person began to pack her things to leave. I added "Correct me if I'm wrong." The person left, and two people came up to me at the end of the meeting and thanked me for making the statement. However, most members avoided me even though they have been very friendly to me for the year that I have been attending the meeting. A therapist friend has advised me that this is not a good meeting for me to continue to attend as most did not like my action. When crosstalk occurs or when one member dominates the meeting, as happens frequently, I feel unsafe as I did when I was a child growing up in a dysfunctional home with a domineering father. Any thoughts to help me in my decision-making process of continuing or not with this particular meeting? My intuition is saying that I should find another home meeting and "easy does it."
I listened to my body and my intuition. My body literally told me to remove myself so I gently and without fuss, did just that. I then found a warm and comfortable feeling meeting. Which i attend and love.
My feeling was that it was part of my journey to learn to honour my feelings and remove myself from a harmful situation.
Welcome, Moonriver, glad you have found us. I know that when I first began speaking more truths, as opposed to swallowing them or trying to people-please, I was inexperienced in how to modulate them, and my plain-speaking came across as aggression, even though I didn't mean it that way. What I came to see in my own case is that people are generally sensitive to criticism (whether they're Al-Anoners or not) and that it's helpful to make it clear that we're not rushing to judgement, just trying to figure things out. In other words starting by giving people the benefit of the doubt. So I'm trying to think about your situation and what might have led to a bad reaction on the part of the person who was piggybacking and some others in the meeting. Maybe the one "piggybacker" was just blatantly violating the rules but maybe she hadn't thought about it and had been carefully working up her courage to say something and did so the wrong way. I remember when I was once in that situation and someone barked at me for making a mistake and I am still cringing and feeling shame all these years later, and it has been about 20 years! So I wonder if it might have been more successful at getting your point across by saying, "I'm still feeling my way out in meetings, I'm wondering if referring to a previous member's comments means that that's cross-talk, which I've been told I should avoid? Could you help me understand?" Then you can kind of take the temperature of their response and feel if the meeting is the right one for you. I think all of us in Al-Anon are very liable to feel shame and defensiveness, even when we shouldn't, and to be wary of signs of aggression, because we've felt so much pain at these things in the past. So it makes sense that there would be a lot of tendency to those in others and in ourselves. Just thinking this through. Hope you will take good care of yourself.
I agree Learning the ins and outs of a meetings protocols does take time. I think that by interrupting the persons share as you did was "cross talk" in itself.
The Chairperson's job is to moderate the meeting and determine if the meeting guidelines are being adhered to. If a member is upset over something that is going on then we can ask for a group conscious or a business meeting- to discus the infraction. If we do not then we run the risk of having someone respond as the member did at your meeting.
To determine if this meeting is right for you, I would ask: Do they hold regular business meetings, practice rotation of leadership, adhere to al anon WSO meeting guidelines?. If so then asking for a business meeting should help to clarify what you are feeling, if not then vote with your feet and leave
I have been to other meetings that allow cross-talk at some levels. Again, the group conscious for that meeting has decided the guidelines it wants to follow. It works for that group and I had no issues with it as it was clearly spelled out in the opening.
Most groups realize and focus on the 'loving interchange among members....' that is discussed in our literature. I have been to some groups that are certainly less healthy than others. I do the best I can in recovery to always 'hang with the winners' and avoid members who appear to be stuck in recovery - always focused on their A, unable to see their part, negative constantly, etc.
On the other side of the room (AA) cross-talk is actually allowed and encouraged as it relates to recovery. They focus more on what it was like, what it's like now, and how we got from there to here. Again, I've seen many different meetings and all kinds of sharing. A long time ago, I allowed a few reactions to affect my meeting choices. My sponsor suggested I was again giving my power away and instead of focusing on personalities, I focus on principles.
So....my personal creed is the message. When I feel I am no longer hearing the message intended for any reason, I'll try a different meeting. It's so easy in recovery to become complacent and stop growing and that leads me to restlessness, irritability and internal turmoil. So - I ask myself if I am getting what I need from a meeting, and if so, I keep going.
Recovery is for those who want it. If you are still getting what you need, look at the bigger picture - has it been working for you until now? Is this one experience large enough to consider a change? Is the change for your growth? In recovery, we work so, so hard to not give our power away to others....I try to stay true to me and my recovery when there is uncertainty.
Love that we get to make choices for us. Since your recovery is for you and you only, you get to decide what's next (with HP). Keep coming back here - great first share and glad to have you as part of the MIP family!!
As for how to know if a meeting is a good fit -- when I first started attending, I tried out many meetings. I'm really fortunate in that there are multiple meetings per day within about a 45 minute drive of my house. I found that I really liked some and I really disliked others, but I almost always came away with something that I needed. I found that there were personalities who really bugged me -- and I tried to examine what it was that was provoking this strong reaction. When I really dug down, I could see that there were folks there who reminded me of other people in my life -- my parents in particular -- and I could choose to just not go to the same meeting as them, or I could choose to interact with them (and realize they were their own people), or I could make an effort to be extra loving to them. And I could make different choices on different days. There is a meeting that I sometimes go to and sometimes avoid, due to a couple of people there who dominate the meeting and keep the focus on the alcoholic and not on themselves. I get miffed and take that as an opportunity to let go (I don't always engage in the letting go, sometimes I just get really frustrated and wish they would shut up or that "someone" would tell them their time is up) and I often find something of value in what they say, but even if I don't it's valuable for me to go through that process. For me, it's a way to face my control issues, try to surrender more, or try to make a different choice in what meeting I attend.
I see a lot of people on here post that there are not so many meetings near them, so I'm reminded of how lucky I am to be able to choose amongst meetings. Anyway good luck.
I don't see "piggy backing" as cross talk so much. I see it as identifying and gaining clarity through fellows in the program. Perhaps could have been worded better, but after YEARS of going to meetings, I have heard that statement before and it typically seems to come from a place of solidarity and feeling moved in a positive way by another. Cross talk is more like literal conversation between people via sharing and dissing the group and meeting in the process (at least in my mind). I also would have felt offended and judged if someone shamed me for what was probably not ill intended. Unity comes first and helping others comes first.
-- Edited by pinkchip on Saturday 29th of October 2016 11:33:08 AM
Great question, I have asked it many times.
Many times, the behaviors of the group stirred up old family abuse and/or dysfunction. I often found myself making the statement to myself, "this should not be like this!"
For me, I find it very helpful to ask myself if my statements and what I am believing... is even true. Is it TRUE that a recovery group should not act dysfunctional?? Today, I laugh when I tell myself that. Indeed, we are a group of dysfunctional control freaks, living in an insane world, affected by the insanity of alcoholism.
I've experienced the traditions interpreted in the most astounding ways by different groups. It came to me as a surprise (perhaps not to you) when I moved to a new area within a new al-anon district where "crosstalk" is a very bad word. Nearly the entire region refers to crosstalk behaviors as "loving interchange" believing people come to al-anon for this "help." Also, the district board here believes it has full authority to tell each (fully autonomous) group how to interpret the traditions and the latest "rule" is to tell which prayers are "no longer allowed." I hear the members gossiping about their qualifiers on the nights they aren't joining us in al-anon... and they do not believe this is true gossip. there's the dominance of the "graduated ones" who insist on sharing last every single week to have the "last word" and summing up the meeting up for the entire group...
Today I am convinced, it's all just a great test from higher power. I had a lightbulb moment when I noticed during these meetings how often the little word "my" was being used.... "my" district "my" home group, "my" fellowship, "my" town, etc. and I recognized something very important to my own recovery. it is a dangerous temptation for me to assume possession of anything, indicated by that little word, "my." Nothing is "mine" not even my own children. I don't own or possess anything and when I attempt to, I find my life feeling quite unmanageable again. everything belongs to God and ESPECIALLY recovery meetings, perfectly imperfect for God can use in any way God wishes.
In another meeting (adult children focus) there are so many meeting rules meant for "protection" that it takes a full 20 minutes to read them all. when I saw how members were still coming in and doing their dysfunctional thing and noticed my reaction to it.... again the light went on in my own head. Despite the attempts to create safety, it was only an illusion of safety, still powerless to get anyone to make me feel safe in the world. I decided for myself, that my perception of safety had to come directly from Higher power, to again not be too attached to anything of this world, only God has all power to provide true safety... another illusion removed from me.
In our closing statement, it says, we aren't perfect. not even our fellowship is meant to be perfect despite our well-meaning traditions. Our fellowship is only human and to me, there is a spiritual purpose for humans not being perfect, it's so I learn ONLY to seek God. Al-anon is only a means for me to get to God, I'm only meant to pass through it and not cling to it, all earthly "attachments" have to fail. Everyone playing their part perfectly so that I can learn, once again, to LET GO. my serenity is in direct proportion to my level of acceptance.
My personal prayer regarding whether or not meetings are "good or bad" for me is usually, "Is there anything more for me to learn here? Can I continue to grow here?" and sometimes, "Let me stay if I can do more for YOU here...."
...depending on where I was at in recovery, no one can answer that for anyone.
but no worries, God is so powerful that whenever I've missed my lessons, it was brought right back to me, served up on a different platter, lol
So grateful to (((all))) for the replies
-- Edited by 2HP on Saturday 29th of October 2016 11:48:11 AM