Please share with the board how you handle expectations especially in romantic relationships.
I am dealing with my own inner demons of trying to determine what is a valid expectation and reasonable or what is just ME trying to satisfy my own ego or my own 'hole in my soul' through someone's behaviors, words, etc. In other words: I expected a response in a certain way to my own vulnerability and I didn't get what I wanted. I got something else and it's burning a hole in my peace and serenity right now. I have worked very hard at opening my heart again, at being vulnerable, etc and unfortunately I expect the same thing in return. I don't always get what I want nor do I always get what I need when I feel that i need it. I do get my needs met by my partner, just not always WHEN I want them met. I am a very demanding person in my own head, lol.
I have enough program in me to know that expectations are future resentments and I'm here to admit that: YES....they are! And, I can feel it building already. I work my program slogans, call my sponsor, and vent to my program friends when I need to. I was raised in an alcoholic home, married an alcoholic and I know now that I basically married my father. I can see that now looking back but old habits die hard.
My bf was asking me the other day why I get so defensive. Umm, because I HAD to. I was trained to. I was always on defense and my XAH was on offense trying to find every hole or break in my defensive line. We were always playing a game, a game that he had to win, he had to always be right, and I had to always be wrong and he was going to prove it. I hated it and now I find that I can't even handle simple comments that aren't even criticisms of me, they are simply observations or small talk and I immediately feel the hairs go up on the back of my neck and I have to talk myself down and say: that wasn't a criticism of YOU, girl, that was just him observing and making conversation. Some days I do better at grasping the whole picture and I can let it go, other days I engage in my defensive behaviors. It wasn't until I left my sick marriage that I was able to step back and truly see just how sick I had become. How those patterns developed over time. And, now, in my current relationship how they are becoming road blocks to my own happiness because I cling to those old habits. I am trying to create new pathways in my emotional responses but damn it's hard to reverse 45 years of damage and destruction.
I truly need to find some serenity today. I have a lot of change coming my way for my career, my son will be 18 in a few weeks and he's far from being prepared for the adult world, and I'm letting negative emotions affect how I feel about my boyfriend and our life together. So, if you have some serenity, please throw it down to Phoenix today!! I'll take whatever you all have to spare, lol!
hotrod said
Oct 20, 2016
((Andromeda)) It is complicated. As far expectation go, I now ask for what I need.
I also learned how to validate myself without invalidating anyone else and most importantly without defending myself. In alanon meetings I learned to "Listen with an open mind" and so I brought that out into the world and do just that. Then I reflect upon what I have heard (without the automatic" reactions") and respond by confirming that I heard want was said, have processed it and then proceed to validate my decision or choices, or if appropriate accept the other persons idea.
Placing principles above personalities take time and effort but it works
milkwood said
Oct 20, 2016
Hey there Phoenix, greetings Andromeda
As I read your post I found myself thinking, yup, I've done that!
One thing that I've noticed is that when there is something looming on my horizon, for me at the moment it is a five week study trip, then I am much more inclined to be more sensitive and less secure in my thinking about other things.
I vividly remember my husband once asking me 'why do you always put yourself down?' and my biting back the instant response that came to my mind of 'it hurts less when I do it.' Oh, little did I know how much I was actually hurting my thinking! I did not, at that time, believe in my own achievements and defend my own points of view. I did not even know that I had been trained to think that way. So for me, having awareness means that when I feel my hackles rise and, when I'm in awareness, I am able to say to myself 'oh, this is interesting, something got to me just then... here is a chance to look at what just happened, and to think about why I am responding this way'. If I've already responded from a hackles raised point of view then I tryto apologise or explain to the person who unwittingly raised my hackles that my response wasn't about them then I do so.
Changing our beliefs takes time and repetition and I have a sense that some beliefs don't change that much, we just learn new ways of dealing with them. Mine is saying 'oh, hello, thanks for the visit, I know what this thought is related to, not relevant in this circumstance, bye, bye!!'
With regards to expectations - well I'm still learning on that one as well! Generally I try not to take it personally. If I need a hug or a certain response I try to remember to ask for it out loud rather than just in my head. If someone is handling something in a way that is not in sync with what I would be doing then it is really a gift for me to see that we are not all alike. 'How important is this to me....' is a question I am learning to ask myself before I react.
I had a situation recently where things did not turn out as I had anticipated and my inner reaction was pure ego so I had to sit myself down and review the situation, and do something nice for myself to calm my ego down a bit! Seems that my ego is open to bribery!
Jerry F said
Oct 20, 2016
This must be where I am supposed to be and do what I need doing. Defensiveness..."life isn't coming out my way and it's making me look bad". That in part is what goes on with me. Life has got to come out my way without any participation on my part other than to exercise expectations of it. I learned in Al-Anon for me that it was already "TOO LATE" for that expectation from where I came and how I chose to live before reaching the doors of program. Gratefully when I reached that point my Higher Power placed an AA (from the big book) understanding right before me; an understanding with wisdom...."And I have learned that ACCEPTANCE is the solution to ALL OF MY PROBLEMS". I capitalize what I keep in the forefront of my mind and ego. Once I accept the struggle goes away or down sufficiently where I can hear my HP's voice.
Thanks for the share Andromeda...((((hugs))))
sarahGee said
Oct 20, 2016
Thank you for this topic, I have a lot to learn here.
My current go-to behavior is "run".
Not healthy.
el-cee said
Oct 20, 2016
Hey, i get where your coming from. the whole defensiveness, i totally understand that. I always felt on guard even in simple conversations because the disease drives the drinker to search for ways to preserve the status quo so if he can store something you said to justify his drinking at a later date then thats a great thing. meanwhike we get crazier trying to not slip up and give anything away and to defend everything weve said or thought so so exhausting and its alcoholism in a nutshell. Its the insanity right there.
I have had to get to grips with me, seperate, individual me. Rethink so e of these old patterns, search out the defects and practice the new replacement thought processes. ITs not easy and ive not cleared it all up, i doubt i will ever clean it all up, il never be Recovered, always recovering.
You are in recovery, your recovering from this damage, let him know that. when your defensive tell him your in recovery, your working on it. I can feel like this too with my new friend, i feel too old for boyfriend, lol. i can feel all my symptoms within this relationship but im trying to see it as a gift or an opportunity to work my program to a new level, its always all about me and my perception all of it. Whenever i feel ill at ease or irritable then i know i need to look at my attitude, its became distorted. its always about me.
You mention your needs being met by him, i dont know what needs you mean. for me i dont need him to meet any of my emotional needs, i dont really need his approvel or recognition for anything. I dont need him to sooth me or reassure me. i only really need him for the physical side of things, lol. I dont know, im not all that invested, i could be missing something but we both have worked hard for our own serenity so no way should we then place it in the hands of another human being, they just cant take the responsibility for it.
One other suggestion the steps, i truly believe the answers are there for all of it c
Iamhere said
Oct 21, 2016
(((Serenity))) - my sponsor had to point out to me very directly that my needs will never, ever, ever be met by another person. Each of us is vastly different with different backgrounds, baggage, upbringing, values, beliefs. Her suggestion(s) has always been to rely on my HP often/always to have my needs met so as to not depend on others for my needs. Others are in my life to fulfill my wants and to provide friendship, support, companionship - to compliment me as an imperfect person, but never to fulfill me or complete me.
I am a slow learner, so I had to work very, very hard to accept me and love me exactly as I am - flaws and all. Only when I am satisfied that who I am and how I am is as I am supposed to be can I have a relationship with others that's not hampered or hindered by confusing my wants/needs. So - when I find that I am discontent with how things are or are going, I just have no choice but to turn inward and find what in me, my faith, my heart has changed.
There is no doubt for me today that stress affects my serenity, my beliefs and my faith. I can go from a peaceful moment filled with love to an insecure fool in a heartbeat - just by having an unexpected event appear in my day. I still struggle with things that redirect my mind and have to remind myself that my first fleeting thoughts are probably defensive and negative. It's the old habits that still exist - I just don't nurture them. Instead, like you suggest, I pull out my tools to redirect my thinking towards program. It is in recovery that I find my best ways and days.
You are awesome and I can relate to the 'hair standing up' statement. When that begins, many times I have to remind me to QTiP....over and over and over again. Great topic and great share!!
andromeda said
Oct 21, 2016
Thank you all for the sharing here. I think, for me, I struggle with knowing what is an acceptable amount of 'anything' because in my alcoholic marriage there was always too much of 'everything'. Condescension, sarcasm, back biting, gas lighting, mean teasing and poking fun at someone's expense, anger, passive aggressive behavior, manipulation, etc. Some of those things are true deal breakers for me when it comes to ANY relationship I have in my life today, but some of them I can tolerate in small doses and I can dish the sarcasm myself so I have to be careful of it. I can also pull passive aggressive moves and manipulations that I learned very well from my experience with the disease and the behaviors around it. And, so, I have to watch my own behaviors and what triggers me to be that way.
I often will get my feelings hurt by people and I constantly wonder: is this OK? Or, am I taking it too personal? Am I truly too sensitive. I've been poked, prodded, teased, belittled, felt like the dirt beneath my father's feet for so long that I still struggle with what is healthy and acceptable and what is too much for my damaged psyche to tolerate? That's where I struggle with my needs and wants, as well.
I know I have to go back to working the steps. I communicate with my sponsor regularly but I know that I need to do the work on my own.
And, I'm totally hormonal and getting ready to start a new job, which is actually a totally new career path and I'm filled with anxiety and fear while trying to maintain my sanity. The hormones are really killing me lately. I feel disconnected from my partner and I know it's because I am choosing to disengage to spare myself the feelings that are hovering just below the surface of my facade. My son's tics and Tourette's have been bothering him more and they affect his self esteem. I've always hated the fact that I can't fix that for him. I can't fix his brain or his past or what I allowed to happen to him as a child of an alcoholic. When I get low like this, I beat myself up for staying in that marriage knowing it was damaging to him. I just didn't have the tools I needed to see a better way out.
kspec85 said
Oct 21, 2016
andromeda wrote:
My son's tics and Tourette's have been bothering him more and they affect his self esteem. I've always hated the fact that I can't fix that for him. I can't fix his brain
Andromeda, my son is on the autistic spectrum. When my afiancée started going on "little" binges here and there, my son started having little tics. Like a throat clearing sound. It only happens when he is stressed or anxious. My nephew does the same and so does my axh. My son does not express sadness that the fiancée is gone. I try to talk to him but he acts pretty oblivious. He has had more rage lately and I know it is because the routine has been disrupted in our home. I just wanted to reach out as I know that it is an extra layer of challenge when you have not just a child, but a child with special needs as well. Much love.
hotrod said
Oct 21, 2016
Great awareness Andromeda. I found that by going back and truly working the Steps, I was able to let go of past negative influences and learn to respond in the present moment using alanon tools.
SerenityRUS said
Oct 22, 2016
I still say you got this .. I find my direct hardness on myself is a reflection of how I treat others. I can think all day that I'm doing this or that .. However I'm my own worst critic. It reflects in how others respond to me and how I treat others. Abuse is Abuse .. That's a different issue. Someone being abusive has their own demons to deal with. Sometimes I need to just be gentle with myself during stressful times this may mean distancing myself so I can get a better perspective of what's going on. One of my favorite things I heard around the tables was I was looking through the telescope and realized I wasn't at the other end! What a shock! Lol! I tend to forget I am powerless .. Helpless no .. Powerless absolutely. I have to learn to give what I want. Oh I think I do .. Then I go back and hmm .. I probably needed to be kinder to myself so I can give that to others. When I know my hormones are flying I'm stressed .. I need to get my needs met and not expect someone else to meet them .. It's great if that happens with my Sig other .. However it's not anyone else's responsibility to fill on any hole I'm dealing with .. Including past trauma. I fill my own cup first and then I can move forward in a far more productive healthy way. So I think you are right where you are suppose to be .. You have a great footing on the next right thing to do .. Steps!!!
Please share with the board how you handle expectations especially in romantic relationships.
I am dealing with my own inner demons of trying to determine what is a valid expectation and reasonable or what is just ME trying to satisfy my own ego or my own 'hole in my soul' through someone's behaviors, words, etc. In other words: I expected a response in a certain way to my own vulnerability and I didn't get what I wanted. I got something else and it's burning a hole in my peace and serenity right now. I have worked very hard at opening my heart again, at being vulnerable, etc and unfortunately I expect the same thing in return. I don't always get what I want nor do I always get what I need when I feel that i need it. I do get my needs met by my partner, just not always WHEN I want them met. I am a very demanding person in my own head, lol.
I have enough program in me to know that expectations are future resentments and I'm here to admit that: YES....they are! And, I can feel it building already. I work my program slogans, call my sponsor, and vent to my program friends when I need to. I was raised in an alcoholic home, married an alcoholic and I know now that I basically married my father. I can see that now looking back but old habits die hard.
My bf was asking me the other day why I get so defensive. Umm, because I HAD to. I was trained to. I was always on defense and my XAH was on offense trying to find every hole or break in my defensive line. We were always playing a game, a game that he had to win, he had to always be right, and I had to always be wrong and he was going to prove it. I hated it and now I find that I can't even handle simple comments that aren't even criticisms of me, they are simply observations or small talk and I immediately feel the hairs go up on the back of my neck and I have to talk myself down and say: that wasn't a criticism of YOU, girl, that was just him observing and making conversation. Some days I do better at grasping the whole picture and I can let it go, other days I engage in my defensive behaviors. It wasn't until I left my sick marriage that I was able to step back and truly see just how sick I had become. How those patterns developed over time. And, now, in my current relationship how they are becoming road blocks to my own happiness because I cling to those old habits. I am trying to create new pathways in my emotional responses but damn it's hard to reverse 45 years of damage and destruction.
I truly need to find some serenity today. I have a lot of change coming my way for my career, my son will be 18 in a few weeks and he's far from being prepared for the adult world, and I'm letting negative emotions affect how I feel about my boyfriend and our life together. So, if you have some serenity, please throw it down to Phoenix today!! I'll take whatever you all have to spare, lol!
I also learned how to validate myself without invalidating anyone else and most importantly without defending myself. In alanon meetings I learned to "Listen with an open mind" and so I brought that out into the world and do just that. Then I reflect upon what I have heard (without the automatic" reactions") and respond by confirming that I heard want was said, have processed it and then proceed to validate my decision or choices, or if appropriate accept the other persons idea.
Placing principles above personalities take time and effort but it works
As I read your post I found myself thinking, yup, I've done that!
One thing that I've noticed is that when there is something looming on my horizon, for me at the moment it is a five week study trip, then I am much more inclined to be more sensitive and less secure in my thinking about other things.
I vividly remember my husband once asking me 'why do you always put yourself down?' and my biting back the instant response that came to my mind of 'it hurts less when I do it.' Oh, little did I know how much I was actually hurting my thinking! I did not, at that time, believe in my own achievements and defend my own points of view. I did not even know that I had been trained to think that way. So for me, having awareness means that when I feel my hackles rise and, when I'm in awareness, I am able to say to myself 'oh, this is interesting, something got to me just then... here is a chance to look at what just happened, and to think about why I am responding this way'. If I've already responded from a hackles raised point of view then I tryto apologise or explain to the person who unwittingly raised my hackles that my response wasn't about them then I do so.
Changing our beliefs takes time and repetition and I have a sense that some beliefs don't change that much, we just learn new ways of dealing with them. Mine is saying 'oh, hello, thanks for the visit, I know what this thought is related to, not relevant in this circumstance, bye, bye!!'
With regards to expectations - well I'm still learning on that one as well! Generally I try not to take it personally. If I need a hug or a certain response I try to remember to ask for it out loud rather than just in my head. If someone is handling something in a way that is not in sync with what I would be doing then it is really a gift for me to see that we are not all alike. 'How important is this to me....' is a question I am learning to ask myself before I react.
I had a situation recently where things did not turn out as I had anticipated and my inner reaction was pure ego so I had to sit myself down and review the situation, and do something nice for myself to calm my ego down a bit! Seems that my ego is open to bribery!
This must be where I am supposed to be and do what I need doing. Defensiveness..."life isn't coming out my way and it's making me look bad". That in part is what goes on with me. Life has got to come out my way without any participation on my part other than to exercise expectations of it. I learned in Al-Anon for me that it was already "TOO LATE" for that expectation from where I came and how I chose to live before reaching the doors of program. Gratefully when I reached that point my Higher Power placed an AA (from the big book) understanding right before me; an understanding with wisdom...."And I have learned that ACCEPTANCE is the solution to ALL OF MY PROBLEMS". I capitalize what I keep in the forefront of my mind and ego. Once I accept the struggle goes away or down sufficiently where I can hear my HP's voice.
Thanks for the share Andromeda...((((hugs))))
My current go-to behavior is "run".
Not healthy.
I have had to get to grips with me, seperate, individual me. Rethink so e of these old patterns, search out the defects and practice the new replacement thought processes. ITs not easy and ive not cleared it all up, i doubt i will ever clean it all up, il never be Recovered, always recovering.
You are in recovery, your recovering from this damage, let him know that. when your defensive tell him your in recovery, your working on it. I can feel like this too with my new friend, i feel too old for boyfriend, lol. i can feel all my symptoms within this relationship but im trying to see it as a gift or an opportunity to work my program to a new level, its always all about me and my perception all of it. Whenever i feel ill at ease or irritable then i know i need to look at my attitude, its became distorted. its always about me.
You mention your needs being met by him, i dont know what needs you mean. for me i dont need him to meet any of my emotional needs, i dont really need his approvel or recognition for anything. I dont need him to sooth me or reassure me. i only really need him for the physical side of things, lol. I dont know, im not all that invested, i could be missing something but we both have worked hard for our own serenity so no way should we then place it in the hands of another human being, they just cant take the responsibility for it.
One other suggestion the steps, i truly believe the answers are there for all of it c
I am a slow learner, so I had to work very, very hard to accept me and love me exactly as I am - flaws and all. Only when I am satisfied that who I am and how I am is as I am supposed to be can I have a relationship with others that's not hampered or hindered by confusing my wants/needs. So - when I find that I am discontent with how things are or are going, I just have no choice but to turn inward and find what in me, my faith, my heart has changed.
There is no doubt for me today that stress affects my serenity, my beliefs and my faith. I can go from a peaceful moment filled with love to an insecure fool in a heartbeat - just by having an unexpected event appear in my day. I still struggle with things that redirect my mind and have to remind myself that my first fleeting thoughts are probably defensive and negative. It's the old habits that still exist - I just don't nurture them. Instead, like you suggest, I pull out my tools to redirect my thinking towards program. It is in recovery that I find my best ways and days.
You are awesome and I can relate to the 'hair standing up' statement. When that begins, many times I have to remind me to QTiP....over and over and over again. Great topic and great share!!
I often will get my feelings hurt by people and I constantly wonder: is this OK? Or, am I taking it too personal? Am I truly too sensitive. I've been poked, prodded, teased, belittled, felt like the dirt beneath my father's feet for so long that I still struggle with what is healthy and acceptable and what is too much for my damaged psyche to tolerate? That's where I struggle with my needs and wants, as well.
I know I have to go back to working the steps. I communicate with my sponsor regularly but I know that I need to do the work on my own.
And, I'm totally hormonal and getting ready to start a new job, which is actually a totally new career path and I'm filled with anxiety and fear while trying to maintain my sanity. The hormones are really killing me lately. I feel disconnected from my partner and I know it's because I am choosing to disengage to spare myself the feelings that are hovering just below the surface of my facade. My son's tics and Tourette's have been bothering him more and they affect his self esteem. I've always hated the fact that I can't fix that for him. I can't fix his brain or his past or what I allowed to happen to him as a child of an alcoholic. When I get low like this, I beat myself up for staying in that marriage knowing it was damaging to him. I just didn't have the tools I needed to see a better way out.
Andromeda, my son is on the autistic spectrum. When my afiancée started going on "little" binges here and there, my son started having little tics. Like a throat clearing sound. It only happens when he is stressed or anxious. My nephew does the same and so does my axh. My son does not express sadness that the fiancée is gone. I try to talk to him but he acts pretty oblivious. He has had more rage lately and I know it is because the routine has been disrupted in our home. I just wanted to reach out as I know that it is an extra layer of challenge when you have not just a child, but a child with special needs as well. Much love.
Great awareness Andromeda. I found that by going back and truly working the Steps, I was able to let go of past negative influences and learn to respond in the present moment using alanon tools.