I have major expectations around other people's behavior when it comes to friendship and I'm trying to let this go, but it comes up again and again and is going to take a long time to change. I have a scorecard in my mind about who has called whom, who has initiated an activity, who has invited whom over or out for coffee or whatever. And I'm the one doing the majority of the inviting/initiating. And it bugs me! I want my friends to call me up and suggest that we do something! I want them to plan parties! I want them to just call to say hi! What it boils down to is that I want their attention -- so I've got expectations (which have control at their root), fear of abandonment, co-dependency, external validation through attention of others, and resentment (from expectations, from control) all balled up in this.
This is something I've been working on letting go of for years, and I haven't yet gotten rid of it. When I decide not to reach out to these folks at all, then I sometimes don't hear from them for weeks or months (or ever again) and I feel hurt and abandoned and like they were never my friends at all. Or, I decide to get over myself and reach out and then resentment creeps in, because I'm again the one initiating the social contact. Sigh. I'm finding this especially challenging with one person right now and am praying for HP to let it go. Thanks for letting me share.
Jerry F said
Oct 15, 2016
I hope you are successful cause for me letting go on all levels...mind, body, spirit and emotions is such a spirit freedom and I love it. Keep working it. (((hugs)))
hotrod said
Oct 15, 2016
E.I.M. when I let go of all expectations and score card keeping, my life became richer , happier and filled with love and compassion. The Steps helped tremendously as did examining my motives and being willing to let go of record keeping, judgment and blame.
It all comes down to acceptance of life on life's terms and not mine. You are on your way and Good luck.
Iamhere said
Oct 15, 2016
I am with Betty and Jerry - when we are able to let go of expectations and score card keeping, it's so freeing... Not only did I keep score and expect others to do as I do, my picker was broken well beyond my choice of partners. Before the program, I was one who attracted others who were needy. Then, when they were not at par with me, I felt left down. As I've gotten better in recovery, I am more selective now about who I invest in/with. Acceptance is the answer for all my problems today.
The good news for your topic - we talk about the three A(s) - Awareness, Acceptance & Action. You're on your way as you are certainly aware of the issues and are processing. You may even be through part/most of acceptance. Keep doing what you're doing and you'll find the answers that work well in your life/program/recovery!
Lyne said
Oct 16, 2016
Hello-About a year and a half ago, my sponsor asked me to try an experiment for about a week. She said to have no expectations of anyone except myself. I thought, I can do this for a week, and after the week, I have never stopped. Once in awhile I slip and step back momentarily, but I'm right back on course. If I think about it, having expectations just hurt me. Now I'm in the driver's seat and it feels so much better. I agree it's one giant step onto the freedom trail, and it makes life so much better! Lyne
e_i_m said
Oct 16, 2016
I'm gonna try it! I love the "freedom trail" :)
Calm Lady said
Oct 17, 2016
What a lovely idea, Lyne. Thank you for sharing it. I am going to try it.
Calm Lady said
Oct 17, 2016
If I may share a little more. Yesterday someone dragged up dome behaviours of mine from about 8 years ago. I was still an active A at the time. I have since worked hard in my sobriety of 6 1/2 years to change and to make amends.
This blast from my past was being used to to manipulate me. I didn't get manipulated and smoothly side stepped it and detached.
Anyway my point is when the person did it, it was a mirror to me. I used to keep score, drag up the past etc.
Seeing and feeling someone reversing it and doing it to me made me clearly see it as behaviour I certainly dont want to use now. Came over as weak and generally yucky! Good to get this perspective.
Iamhere said
Oct 17, 2016
This has been a great post/topic for me. I too love your suggestion Lyne! Calm Lady - powerful, powerful share. So makes me think of ...more will be revealed!!
hotrod said
Oct 17, 2016
Great awareness Calm Lady, I no longer keep score or drag up painful memories from the past as I no longer have to justify my actions because, thanks to alanon, I now live by principles.
tucker said
Oct 17, 2016
I'm definitely still working on this issue, and the mutuality of it.
Recently a friend told me that she was "hurt" because I cancelled out of a coffee date because I wasn't feeling well. She said that she depended on me to be there for her.
I mulled over this some, and realize that she has an expectation of me that I cannot always live up to. I did apologize even though I was not sure if I had done anything "wrong". I called her on the phone (she did not respond), and then I called her again to invite her to an event I was going to. I didn't think that she would be interested, but I invited her anyway just so that she would know that I was still interesting in spending time with her. She did not respond.
It seems that the ball is back in my court, and I need to let go of expectations. People are who they are and how they are. It is not my business to fix them or have them behave the way I think they should.
This is a lesson that seems to be always rearing its head for me.
jojo8466 said
Oct 17, 2016
I definitely need to work on this issue myself. I always feel like I am a better friend to people than they are to me. I need to learn not to "keep score" - it's a hard characteristic to break.
sarahGee said
Oct 17, 2016
I completely understand this. Thank you for sharing this topic!
Iamhere said
Oct 17, 2016
Sarah - lovely, lovely photo!!! Like your ink girl!
sarahGee said
Oct 18, 2016
Iamhere wrote:
Sarah - lovely, lovely photo!!! Like your ink girl!
Aw thank you! Yes I'm running out of skin
El said
Oct 18, 2016
I come from a long line of score keepers on both sides of my family. My mother and aunts could tell you specifics on who made the last call, made the last comment, who was snubbed, who was humiliating or humiliated, who brought what to what event, who DIDN'T bring what to what event, who skipped a funeral, who gave how much for wedding, graduation and birthday gifts. Then there was who was inappropriately dressed, talked too much, talked too little or was just a basic loser on all levels.
Now, while there is a ton of judgement mixed in with the tallies of behavior, there was always a consequence for the offender; which was usually passive-aggressive. Of course, the consequence needed to fit the crime, so the mental scoreboard was just whirring! This was on BOTH sides of my family!
Phew.....I think ANY progress I have made away from this madness, mean-ness, and convoluted way of thinking is a miracle! For years I have also carried on the tradition of keeping score on phone calls, initiation of entertainment, etc. I am proud to say that I have come a long way in that I am very aware of my tendencies and am actively talking myself down from each and every situation. This program of recovery will save me on so many levels. So, with my prayers to HP and constant monitoring and detouring of my stinking thinking, I can feel the progress. I am so much more able to let it go. Someone didn't call back? Ok. They must have a lot going on right now.
Like anything else, it takes practice and patience with self to overcome these behaviors. We can do it!
lookingup said
Oct 18, 2016
This is a great topic,thank you for sharing it its gave me a whole new awareness ,......lu
e_i_m said
Oct 18, 2016
Hi El -- did we grow up in the same family? :) Yes, my family also did score keeping and judging those who didn't return invitations, and it was always what I was taught as politeness and good manners. If someone has you over for dinner, then you invite them over for dinner. If someone has you over for coffee, then you have them over for coffee. I like going to parties and having coffee and having dinner (and I love hosting all of those things, too). I do feel hurt (and I do judge people's manners) when I invite someone to do lots of things -- and they accept -- and then they don't invite me for the same. I'm trying really hard to overcome this, but whenever I stop initiating things, I wind up sitting home alone (or going out to things alone). I don't want to be isolated and I like my friends and want to spend time with them; I have to stop wishing they'd initiate the activities, I guess. Or find some new friends!
Iamhere said
Oct 18, 2016
sarahGee wrote:
Iamhere wrote:
Sarah - lovely, lovely photo!!! Like your ink girl!
Aw thank you! Yes I'm running out of skin
Ha.ha.ha.ha......I have to admit - I have no ink....but one son does and most of my friends, softball friends and family do! I am just to big of a chicken to do it! We have talked recently at my home group about getting Happy-Joyous-Free on our wrists (that's the name of our group....) and I will if others go/do too. It will be my first! If nobody does it, I probably won't!
El said
Oct 18, 2016
e_i_m,
There have been times I have held out contacting someone because I am tired of always being the one to set something up. One of two things happens: either I wii never hear from that person, or I will get so pissed off that I don't answer the phone when they call! How self-defeating is that! My "I'll show you" attitude accomplishes nothing, except hurting myself. So, I have come to the conclusion that some folks would rather be the guest than the host, no matter how rude that becomes. OR, they are just used to me making the plans and are content with taking the back seat to being the social director.
We had neighbors whom we adored and I know the feeling was mutual. We both moved off the street, and in the 5 years we've lived in different parts of town, they have only been to our house. When we invite, they are thrilled we called and are so happy to come over. We laugh and talk for hours and really miss our closeness. When leaving, they carry on about doing it again, but never call us. Go figure! It makes me mad, sure, but I honestly think they like being the guests! I refuse to lose sleep over it, so about once a year I'll check in with myself to see if I want to have them over.
I believe with closer friends, you have to gauge how much you enjoy their company. If you really like being with them, then you might have to accept the role of social director and drop expectations.... OR confront it in a non-threatening way.
I can't always figure people out and that is what usually gets me in trouble- over thinking and analyzing.
sarahGee said
Oct 18, 2016
IAH - you should do it! No time like the present, transitioning into the fearless healthiest balls-to-the-wall version of you! ;)
I love marking life transitions with tattoos. It's like a badge of honour.
Still loving this topic thread!!
Iamhere said
Oct 18, 2016
Been thinking about ink for more than 30 years.......it may always just be a thought - never know!!
e_i_m said
Oct 19, 2016
El wrote:
I believe with closer friends, you have to gauge how much you enjoy their company. If you really like being with them, then you might have to accept the role of social director and drop expectations.... OR confront it in a non-threatening way.
I can't always figure people out and that is what usually gets me in trouble- over thinking and analyzing.
Hi El, yes, I'm working on dropping the expectations and accpeting my role as social director; and realizing that people have different ideas about the social order :). I like what you said about some people enjoying the guest role. I *know* that no one is not-inviting me to do stuff because of me -- I really get it that it's not an intentionally hurtful behavior on others' part, but it's so entrenched in me that friendship is a see-saw of initiation that I get confused about it and need to just handle my expectations better. I don't think I get mad or try to "show them" by not answering when they eventually do invite me; I get over-excited and act like a puppy dog. I don't want to confront them about it -- I really just want to let go of my expectations -- and I'm certainly not losing sleep over this (unlike my other, much more self-damaging expectations of loved ones and my boss). I'm really grateful that I have this less significant area of my life to work on my sense of expectations in a smaller way and practice al-anon behaviors in a low-stake area of my life. And grateful for your shares here. It's always so good for me to know that other people grapple with the same things. THanks!
hotrod said
Oct 19, 2016
Letting go of expectations is huge. I found once accomplished- being really freeing. Keep asking HP to set you free. I hate to entertain, in recent years and have told my friends this and instead we go to a favorite restaurant for lunch or dinner and that way no one needs to host. This works for me.
2HP said
Oct 19, 2016
I love the thread... so grateful I'm not alone! I need Al-anon because people don't always act the way I want them to act...!!!
I've heard in recovery that it's okay to have reasonable expectations in relationships regarding my needs... to ASK for what I need (because nobody can read my mind)... and to take responsibility for communicating that. But to stop short of demanding... because I want them to be free too. I don't want to take hostages,... (I just I want them to love me freely. lol)
I am powerless to make that happen and ultimately, I'm the one responsible for me and my serenity. when others cannot meet my true needs, Al-anon tells me I have choices.
As I was reading, I could easily identify with both sides, I have practiced BOTH behaviors...the giving, giving, giving and waiting, waiting, waiting (for reciprocation). And I'm also the one holding back sometimes...
my motive is almost always about trying my best to take care of myself... it has nothing to do with anyone else. Others may be viewing it as a character defect in me... a valuable lesson I've learned in recovery, most character defects were developed to get my perceived needs met, just a way that I found to cope or take care of myself. (some stopped working, obviously)
Currently, I am working on letting go of my expectations of my kids. I have asked for what I need and I'm not getting it. I'm trying really hard to NOT take it personally... I know they are very busy. But too busy for their own mother, my gawd, wth?!!!!!
I have to catch myself when I'm feeling punishing as I have this week... working really hard at just enjoying the relationship that is available to me just as it is.... just for today, to focus on the GOOD. When I am with them, my goal is to extend all the love I have in my heart for them... regardless of what I get back. I have noticed that as soon as I start focusing on what I'm NOT receiving..... it steals the joy from my giving.
Some relationships are WORTH all my energy and giving of my soul and some not. I can channel Martha Stewart with the best of em, I'm a foodie and I enjoy creative entertaining. (This post has me thinking that perhaps some people didn't reciprocate because they felt they couldnt compete with that?? .....hmmmm)
...But some relationships are NOT worth the pouring of all my energy. It is much easier to just meet somewhere, to KEEP IT SIMPLE. (what an under-rated, spiritual way to live, right?! I'm tempted to blame Pinterest, lol)
I'll keep my seat in Al-anon warm. many thanks to (((all))) for sharing
-- Edited by 2HP on Wednesday 19th of October 2016 11:19:04 AM
I have major expectations around other people's behavior when it comes to friendship and I'm trying to let this go, but it comes up again and again and is going to take a long time to change. I have a scorecard in my mind about who has called whom, who has initiated an activity, who has invited whom over or out for coffee or whatever. And I'm the one doing the majority of the inviting/initiating. And it bugs me! I want my friends to call me up and suggest that we do something! I want them to plan parties! I want them to just call to say hi! What it boils down to is that I want their attention -- so I've got expectations (which have control at their root), fear of abandonment, co-dependency, external validation through attention of others, and resentment (from expectations, from control) all balled up in this.
This is something I've been working on letting go of for years, and I haven't yet gotten rid of it. When I decide not to reach out to these folks at all, then I sometimes don't hear from them for weeks or months (or ever again) and I feel hurt and abandoned and like they were never my friends at all. Or, I decide to get over myself and reach out and then resentment creeps in, because I'm again the one initiating the social contact. Sigh. I'm finding this especially challenging with one person right now and am praying for HP to let it go. Thanks for letting me share.
I hope you are successful cause for me letting go on all levels...mind, body, spirit and emotions is such a spirit freedom and I love it. Keep working it. (((hugs)))
E.I.M. when I let go of all expectations and score card keeping, my life became richer , happier and filled with love and compassion. The Steps helped tremendously as did examining my motives and being willing to let go of record keeping, judgment and blame.
It all comes down to acceptance of life on life's terms and not mine. You are on your way and Good luck.
The good news for your topic - we talk about the three A(s) - Awareness, Acceptance & Action. You're on your way as you are certainly aware of the issues and are processing. You may even be through part/most of acceptance. Keep doing what you're doing and you'll find the answers that work well in your life/program/recovery!
I'm gonna try it! I love the "freedom trail" :)
This blast from my past was being used to to manipulate me. I didn't get manipulated and smoothly side stepped it and detached.
Anyway my point is when the person did it, it was a mirror to me. I used to keep score, drag up the past etc.
Seeing and feeling someone reversing it and doing it to me made me clearly see it as behaviour I certainly dont want to use now. Came over as weak and generally yucky! Good to get this perspective.
Recently a friend told me that she was "hurt" because I cancelled out of a coffee date because I wasn't feeling well. She said that she depended on me to be there for her.
I mulled over this some, and realize that she has an expectation of me that I cannot always live up to. I did apologize even though I was not sure if I had done anything "wrong". I called her on the phone (she did not respond), and then I called her again to invite her to an event I was going to. I didn't think that she would be interested, but I invited her anyway just so that she would know that I was still interesting in spending time with her. She did not respond.
It seems that the ball is back in my court, and I need to let go of expectations. People are who they are and how they are. It is not my business to fix them or have them behave the way I think they should.
This is a lesson that seems to be always rearing its head for me.
Aw thank you! Yes I'm running out of skin
I come from a long line of score keepers on both sides of my family. My mother and aunts could tell you specifics on who made the last call, made the last comment, who was snubbed, who was humiliating or humiliated, who brought what to what event, who DIDN'T bring what to what event, who skipped a funeral, who gave how much for wedding, graduation and birthday gifts. Then there was who was inappropriately dressed, talked too much, talked too little or was just a basic loser on all levels.
Now, while there is a ton of judgement mixed in with the tallies of behavior, there was always a consequence for the offender; which was usually passive-aggressive. Of course, the consequence needed to fit the crime, so the mental scoreboard was just whirring! This was on BOTH sides of my family!
Phew.....I think ANY progress I have made away from this madness, mean-ness, and convoluted way of thinking is a miracle! For years I have also carried on the tradition of keeping score on phone calls, initiation of entertainment, etc. I am proud to say that I have come a long way in that I am very aware of my tendencies and am actively talking myself down from each and every situation. This program of recovery will save me on so many levels. So, with my prayers to HP and constant monitoring and detouring of my stinking thinking, I can feel the progress. I am so much more able to let it go. Someone didn't call back? Ok. They must have a lot going on right now.
Like anything else, it takes practice and patience with self to overcome these behaviors. We can do it!
Ha.ha.ha.ha......I have to admit - I have no ink....but one son does and most of my friends, softball friends and family do! I am just to big of a chicken to do it! We have talked recently at my home group about getting Happy-Joyous-Free on our wrists (that's the name of our group....) and I will if others go/do too. It will be my first! If nobody does it, I probably won't!
e_i_m,
There have been times I have held out contacting someone because I am tired of always being the one to set something up. One of two things happens: either I wii never hear from that person, or I will get so pissed off that I don't answer the phone when they call! How self-defeating is that! My "I'll show you" attitude accomplishes nothing, except hurting myself. So, I have come to the conclusion that some folks would rather be the guest than the host, no matter how rude that becomes. OR, they are just used to me making the plans and are content with taking the back seat to being the social director.
We had neighbors whom we adored and I know the feeling was mutual. We both moved off the street, and in the 5 years we've lived in different parts of town, they have only been to our house. When we invite, they are thrilled we called and are so happy to come over. We laugh and talk for hours and really miss our closeness. When leaving, they carry on about doing it again, but never call us. Go figure! It makes me mad, sure, but I honestly think they like being the guests! I refuse to lose sleep over it, so about once a year I'll check in with myself to see if I want to have them over.
I believe with closer friends, you have to gauge how much you enjoy their company. If you really like being with them, then you might have to accept the role of social director and drop expectations.... OR confront it in a non-threatening way.
I can't always figure people out and that is what usually gets me in trouble- over thinking and analyzing.
Hi El, yes, I'm working on dropping the expectations and accpeting my role as social director; and realizing that people have different ideas about the social order :). I like what you said about some people enjoying the guest role. I *know* that no one is not-inviting me to do stuff because of me -- I really get it that it's not an intentionally hurtful behavior on others' part, but it's so entrenched in me that friendship is a see-saw of initiation that I get confused about it and need to just handle my expectations better. I don't think I get mad or try to "show them" by not answering when they eventually do invite me; I get over-excited and act like a puppy dog. I don't want to confront them about it -- I really just want to let go of my expectations -- and I'm certainly not losing sleep over this (unlike my other, much more self-damaging expectations of loved ones and my boss). I'm really grateful that I have this less significant area of my life to work on my sense of expectations in a smaller way and practice al-anon behaviors in a low-stake area of my life. And grateful for your shares here. It's always so good for me to know that other people grapple with the same things. THanks!
Letting go of expectations is huge. I found once accomplished- being really freeing. Keep asking HP to set you free.
I hate to entertain, in recent years and have told my friends this and instead we go to a favorite restaurant for lunch or dinner and that way no one needs to host. This works for me.
I love the thread... so grateful I'm not alone! I need Al-anon because people don't always act the way I want them to act...!!!
I've heard in recovery that it's okay to have reasonable expectations in relationships regarding my needs... to ASK for what I need (because nobody can read my mind)... and to take responsibility for communicating that. But to stop short of demanding... because I want them to be free too. I don't want to take hostages,... (I just I want them to love me freely. lol)
I am powerless to make that happen and ultimately, I'm the one responsible for me and my serenity. when others cannot meet my true needs, Al-anon tells me I have choices.
As I was reading, I could easily identify with both sides, I have practiced BOTH behaviors...the giving, giving, giving and waiting, waiting, waiting (for reciprocation). And I'm also the one holding back sometimes...
my motive is almost always about trying my best to take care of myself... it has nothing to do with anyone else. Others may be viewing it as a character defect in me... a valuable lesson I've learned in recovery, most character defects were developed to get my perceived needs met, just a way that I found to cope or take care of myself. (some stopped working, obviously)
Currently, I am working on letting go of my expectations of my kids. I have asked for what I need and I'm not getting it. I'm trying really hard to NOT take it personally... I know they are very busy. But too busy for their own mother, my gawd, wth?!!!!!
I have to catch myself when I'm feeling punishing as I have this week... working really hard at just enjoying the relationship that is available to me just as it is.... just for today, to focus on the GOOD. When I am with them, my goal is to extend all the love I have in my heart for them... regardless of what I get back. I have noticed that as soon as I start focusing on what I'm NOT receiving..... it steals the joy from my giving.
Some relationships are WORTH all my energy and giving of my soul and some not. I can channel Martha Stewart with the best of em, I'm a foodie and I enjoy creative entertaining. (This post has me thinking that perhaps some people didn't reciprocate because they felt they couldnt compete with that?? .....hmmmm)
...But some relationships are NOT worth the pouring of all my energy. It is much easier to just meet somewhere, to KEEP IT SIMPLE. (what an under-rated, spiritual way to live, right?! I'm tempted to blame Pinterest, lol)
I'll keep my seat in Al-anon warm. many thanks to (((all))) for sharing
-- Edited by 2HP on Wednesday 19th of October 2016 11:19:04 AM