Last weekend x(I thought) abf asked if he could come over and I said no, I don't want you to, sorry. I guess we still hadn't had "the talk" but it's been months since we've seen each other and we talk less than once a week now (and only if he's drunk and calls me anyway).
Anyway he called before and he started saying that we have to make an effort to see each other and we can't say we are together if we never actually spend time with each other and I thought, OK, time to peel this freaking onion once and for all, so I said "Actually, I thought we had broken up, a couple of months ago when you broke up with me and then didn't talk to me for weeks. I grieved and then I realised I was OK and I decided that's what I want too. So I'm a bit surprised that you are acting like we are still together". So he says "OK I'll always love you but if you want to be just friends that's OK I just need to know". There was more to the conversation, all pretty amicable; he asked if I was sure, I said I don't think either of us has what the other needs anymore and I'm ready to move on, I care about you but we don't work together, we both deserve to be happy blah blah blah and all of the million various ways you can say "it's over".
Anyway at this point I realised he sounded very drunk (guzzling drinks while we were talking?) when he sounded perfectly clear a few minutes before, ugh.
So he said he had turned own an invite to go to a singles night with a friend because he didn't want to 'cheat' on me and I told him I thought he should go to anything he wanted to and that I don't want to be a couple so it's not a problem. He agreed and said OK and then a few minutes later was saying "as far as I'm concerned we are still together and we haven't made any decisions yet so when I go away this weekend I won't be picking up or anything" (no,no,no. ffs, go pick up lol).
Then back to agreeing and understanding.
Then trying to invite himself to come out with daughter and I this weekend (we have something fun planned). No. No. No. No. No.
Now worried he will turn up drunk and wanting to talk about it. (Ignoring was easier, gah).
I do love and care about him, I don't want to hurt him, but I am ready to move on and it's hard to do when he is so drunk all the time and doesn't seem to grasp what is going on.
Sigh.
-- Edited by MissM on Thursday 13th of October 2016 02:35:33 AM
Mattie said
Oct 13, 2016
<Sigh>, right? I think it comes from this kind of understanding of reality: "Whatever I want and believe right now is the way reality is. I want to be together! So really we are. Well, I don't know if I want it! So maybe we are and maybe we aren't. No, to hell with it! We're not together, I've got other things to do. No, actually, I want to be together, so we are. I'm just not going to act like it, like be sober and attentive for long periods. We're together but I'm not around much, that's just the way it has to be because that's who I am, wild and free, untameable I am. Except when I don't want to be together, then we're not. If I can't get anyone else this evening, then you should feel bad because I had decreed that we're together, therefore we are. Except when I don't want to be and we're not. I'm not listening to you because you change your mind all the time."
I've had this experience - that as long as they can't be convinced of something (which is as long as they want), they stay engaged with us (but without looking too lovey-dovey, because that gets them worried), and they get to blame us! Win-win for them!
It sounds like you totally have his number. Go you!
MissM said
Oct 13, 2016
That is pretty much how it is Mattie.
I really hope when he sobers up he "gets it" because I don't say this stuff lightly and he must know that I mean it, even if he doesn't want to acknowledge it.
I hope so because it's not easy or fun, it hurts saying this stuff and I don't want to have to do it again (and again and again)
Mattie said
Oct 13, 2016
And of course he'll use the fact that it hurts to say it to wear you down, by keeping making you say it. Maybe "Not gonna talk about it any more" would be a useful phrase. The least you deserve after all this is not to be hassled about this stuff.
e_i_m said
Oct 13, 2016
Oh my god you guys -- were we all dating the same guy? Oy, it's such a hassle. But it's SO HELPFUL to hear that other people have been through exactly the same process. It really, really helps me see things clearly when other people share their very similar experiences. Thank you both.
jojo8466 said
Oct 13, 2016
They are all just controlling a**es! My ex abf felt the need to control everything in our relationship (part of me thinks it's because he couldn't control his drinking, his home life, things that happen in life, his job etc so he chose to control us) - he decided whether we were together or not - whether we could talk on the phone or not - whether we could text or not - whether we could see each other or not. I am not a person that handles being controlled well. I'm grateful that he is no longer controlling us!
If I were you MissM I wouldn't even answer the phone next time he calls. You made it clear it's over....no need to say anything more to him. Hell block his number! He deserves it!
MissM said
Oct 13, 2016
I'm not angry with him; we were together for 10 years and over the last 2 years he's made a lot of efforts to 'change". but the truth is we just get further and further apart and it's crystal clear to me now that I can't get what I want from being with him and I surely can't give him what he wants anymore. (Which I think is for me to go back to how I was).
I just want something different now and it isn't negotiable.
It's sad for both of us really, we both hung on for a long time hoping it would work somehow. It's hard to say and hard to hear I guess. So I don't want to keep saying it over and over!
el-cee said
Oct 13, 2016
I was in this situation for a long time, I knew I didnt want him but I didnt have the guts to end it and I had some of my own reasons for keeping him in my life, like I still thought I had the power to make his life worse, more drinking etc. Then a wise person told me that this was wrong, he had the right to begin to move on as I already had done in my mind and that was it for me. I told him, he did the usual, got a bit angry, tried to win me back but my mind was made up. It was over for me, I had mentally let go completely of him. So i never backed down, its been almost 4 yrs since I told him and I've being seeing someone else for over a yr now. He has also met someone and thats great. The change in all of us has been good. His life never got worse and in fact has gotten better and better just as mine has so I think we were not good for each other in lots of ways. Maybe an indepth step 4 will help you see whats inside thats keeping him in your life.
jojo8466 said
Oct 13, 2016
That is wonderful that you aren't angry or bitter towards him. 10 years is a long time - you are a very patient person! I was just trying to offer you a solution so you don't have to keep saying it over and over again. If it came across offensively then I apologize. that wasn't my intention.
MissM said
Oct 13, 2016
Definitely not offended, just talking it through while I process it myself
I appreciate the support and knowing others have gone through the same range of feelings helps a lot.
hotrod said
Oct 13, 2016
(((Ms.M.)) It is all a process -His and yours. Change is difficult and since most resist it, take as long as you need. It is best to talk thing over and reason things out (as alanon suggests).
I see that you have your mind made up so keep using your tools and Let Go and Let God--That band-aid will simply fall off. :)
2HP said
Oct 13, 2016
I know Betty's reply to be truth... talking it over, reasoning things out helps so much. I couldn't see the forest through the trees due to my emotional attachment to my story... the fellowship could see what I could not.
What I'm reading is, HIS words and actions aren't matching up... alcoholic relationships are like that and it makes me crazy. I'm grateful they told me to watch the actions and not listen to his words, which are meaningless, they're just words. actions speak louder than words.
But the same holds true for me... do my words and actions match up??
I got into another addictive relationship after my divorce... riding the high-highs and low-lows that are an additive relationship... we, too, tried to be friends. During the low points, I would cry to my sponsor, "that's it! I've had it!!" describing more pain and suffering....
My sponsor had said to me repeatedly, "If the relationship is REALLY over, just sever it right now....just sever it, just chop it off completely... STOP picking up the phone... you cannot be friends so stop pretending you can... it brings up the past, it stirs up pain all over again... so just STOP IT."
I cannot tell you how many times she told me that because I could not do it at first... together, he and I kept doing the same thing over and over.... expecting a different result.
He wasn't causing my pain of course, my desperate clinging was causing my pain. For me, love and pain go hand in hand, it goes back to childhood... I have a very high tolerance for painful relationships. "Letting go" triggered my fear of abandonment... the "old thinking" leftover from childhood. But today I am an adult who can take care of herself... very good care of myself. my only problem today is ME abandoning me and my truth.
-- Edited by 2HP on Thursday 13th of October 2016 10:49:26 AM
Jill said
Oct 13, 2016
I once attended a stop smoking class. The leader was a kind pastor. He told a "story" of his children's excitement for the new puppies at their neighbor's house. The woman had taken them to the vet to have their tails docked (amputated). She told the vet to take off just an inch today. Next week she would return to have another inch taken off, and so on until they were short enough. We were each of us horrified at her whacko plan to torture these adorable puppies.
Then we had a five minute break to go out to our cars to get the spare cigs we had hidden for just in case. LOL
MissM said
Oct 13, 2016
I'm grateful for the way things have gone really.
I was always so afraid of how sick and confused and miserable I'd be if we cut things off back when it was all pain and turmoil; I'd never know if it was the right decision or not, second guessing, etc. I wanted something a lot more gentle and I got it so I'm not complaining. It's actually been a pretty perfect ending to be honest; I got to experience a much nicer, more caring side of him and realised that he isn't right for me anyway.
I think we've given each other a lot of space and time to come to a fairly painless end; after having him make effort to treat me nicely a lot of my resentment has healed, and it's true that his actions don't match his words; he ceased putting in any effort ages ago and so did I. I don't think there's any anger from anyone; he just seems fearful I guess. As I was until very recently; we've both clung on to each other long after the relationship died for fear of actually saying the words "I'm alone".
Anyway I think it's worked out the best way it could have for both of us. I don't know of we can be friends or not; I don't believe either of us has been in love with the other for a long time now so, who knows. The future can take care of itself.
I just hope he understood and remembers the conversation. Sober and rational I am pretty sure it's what he wants too; drunk is a different story.
I feel very positive and hopeful after sleeping on it anyway; it's a bright sunny morning and daughter woke me early to complain she had too much stuff to take to school; I drove, we stopped for coffee, and now I have time to walk the dog quickly before I start my 'day".
Yay
lookingup said
Oct 13, 2016
Sounds like a win win sit to me MissM ,you done great same way I would have wanted my relationship to have went or ended,pain is inevitable suffering is optional is what comes to my mind reading your story,cheers to you.....hugs lu,,,,great topic
Sigh.
Last weekend x(I thought) abf asked if he could come over and I said no, I don't want you to, sorry. I guess we still hadn't had "the talk" but it's been months since we've seen each other and we talk less than once a week now (and only if he's drunk and calls me anyway).
Anyway he called before and he started saying that we have to make an effort to see each other and we can't say we are together if we never actually spend time with each other and I thought, OK, time to peel this freaking onion once and for all, so I said "Actually, I thought we had broken up, a couple of months ago when you broke up with me and then didn't talk to me for weeks. I grieved and then I realised I was OK and I decided that's what I want too. So I'm a bit surprised that you are acting like we are still together". So he says "OK I'll always love you but if you want to be just friends that's OK I just need to know". There was more to the conversation, all pretty amicable; he asked if I was sure, I said I don't think either of us has what the other needs anymore and I'm ready to move on, I care about you but we don't work together, we both deserve to be happy blah blah blah and all of the million various ways you can say "it's over".
Anyway at this point I realised he sounded very drunk (guzzling drinks while we were talking?) when he sounded perfectly clear a few minutes before, ugh.
So he said he had turned own an invite to go to a singles night with a friend because he didn't want to 'cheat' on me and I told him I thought he should go to anything he wanted to and that I don't want to be a couple so it's not a problem. He agreed and said OK and then a few minutes later was saying "as far as I'm concerned we are still together and we haven't made any decisions yet so when I go away this weekend I won't be picking up or anything" (no,no,no. ffs, go pick up lol).
Then back to agreeing and understanding.
Then trying to invite himself to come out with daughter and I this weekend (we have something fun planned). No. No. No. No. No.
Now worried he will turn up drunk and wanting to talk about it. (Ignoring was easier, gah).
I do love and care about him, I don't want to hurt him, but I am ready to move on and it's hard to do when he is so drunk all the time and doesn't seem to grasp what is going on.
Sigh.
-- Edited by MissM on Thursday 13th of October 2016 02:35:33 AM
<Sigh>, right? I think it comes from this kind of understanding of reality: "Whatever I want and believe right now is the way reality is. I want to be together! So really we are. Well, I don't know if I want it! So maybe we are and maybe we aren't. No, to hell with it! We're not together, I've got other things to do. No, actually, I want to be together, so we are. I'm just not going to act like it, like be sober and attentive for long periods. We're together but I'm not around much, that's just the way it has to be because that's who I am, wild and free, untameable I am. Except when I don't want to be together, then we're not. If I can't get anyone else this evening, then you should feel bad because I had decreed that we're together, therefore we are. Except when I don't want to be and we're not. I'm not listening to you because you change your mind all the time."
I've had this experience - that as long as they can't be convinced of something (which is as long as they want), they stay engaged with us (but without looking too lovey-dovey, because that gets them worried), and they get to blame us! Win-win for them!
It sounds like you totally have his number. Go you!
I really hope when he sobers up he "gets it" because I don't say this stuff lightly and he must know that I mean it, even if he doesn't want to acknowledge it.
I hope so because it's not easy or fun, it hurts saying this stuff and I don't want to have to do it again (and again and again)
And of course he'll use the fact that it hurts to say it to wear you down, by keeping making you say it.
Maybe "Not gonna talk about it any more" would be a useful phrase. The least you deserve after all this is not to be hassled about this stuff.
If I were you MissM I wouldn't even answer the phone next time he calls. You made it clear it's over....no need to say anything more to him. Hell block his number! He deserves it!
I just want something different now and it isn't negotiable.
It's sad for both of us really, we both hung on for a long time hoping it would work somehow. It's hard to say and hard to hear I guess. So I don't want to keep saying it over and over!
I was in this situation for a long time, I knew I didnt want him but I didnt have the guts to end it and I had some of my own reasons for keeping him in my life, like I still thought I had the power to make his life worse, more drinking etc. Then a wise person told me that this was wrong, he had the right to begin to move on as I already had done in my mind and that was it for me. I told him, he did the usual, got a bit angry, tried to win me back but my mind was made up. It was over for me, I had mentally let go completely of him. So i never backed down, its been almost 4 yrs since I told him and I've being seeing someone else for over a yr now. He has also met someone and thats great. The change in all of us has been good. His life never got worse and in fact has gotten better and better just as mine has so I think we were not good for each other in lots of ways. Maybe an indepth step 4 will help you see whats inside thats keeping him in your life.
I appreciate the support and knowing others have gone through the same range of feelings helps a lot.
(((Ms.M.)) It is all a process -His and yours. Change is difficult and since most resist it, take as long as you need. It is best to talk thing over and reason things out (as alanon suggests).
I see that you have your mind made up so keep using your tools and Let Go and Let God--That band-aid will simply fall off. :)
I know Betty's reply to be truth... talking it over, reasoning things out helps so much. I couldn't see the forest through the trees due to my emotional attachment to my story... the fellowship could see what I could not.
What I'm reading is, HIS words and actions aren't matching up... alcoholic relationships are like that and it makes me crazy. I'm grateful they told me to watch the actions and not listen to his words, which are meaningless, they're just words. actions speak louder than words.
But the same holds true for me... do my words and actions match up??
I got into another addictive relationship after my divorce... riding the high-highs and low-lows that are an additive relationship... we, too, tried to be friends. During the low points, I would cry to my sponsor, "that's it! I've had it!!" describing more pain and suffering....
My sponsor had said to me repeatedly, "If the relationship is REALLY over, just sever it right now....just sever it, just chop it off completely... STOP picking up the phone... you cannot be friends so stop pretending you can... it brings up the past, it stirs up pain all over again... so just STOP IT."
I cannot tell you how many times she told me that because I could not do it at first... together, he and I kept doing the same thing over and over.... expecting a different result.
He wasn't causing my pain of course, my desperate clinging was causing my pain. For me, love and pain go hand in hand, it goes back to childhood... I have a very high tolerance for painful relationships. "Letting go" triggered my fear of abandonment... the "old thinking" leftover from childhood. But today I am an adult who can take care of herself... very good care of myself. my only problem today is ME abandoning me and my truth.
-- Edited by 2HP on Thursday 13th of October 2016 10:49:26 AM
Then we had a five minute break to go out to our cars to get the spare cigs we had hidden for just in case. LOL
I was always so afraid of how sick and confused and miserable I'd be if we cut things off back when it was all pain and turmoil; I'd never know if it was the right decision or not, second guessing, etc. I wanted something a lot more gentle and I got it so I'm not complaining. It's actually been a pretty perfect ending to be honest; I got to experience a much nicer, more caring side of him and realised that he isn't right for me anyway.
I think we've given each other a lot of space and time to come to a fairly painless end; after having him make effort to treat me nicely a lot of my resentment has healed, and it's true that his actions don't match his words; he ceased putting in any effort ages ago and so did I. I don't think there's any anger from anyone; he just seems fearful I guess. As I was until very recently; we've both clung on to each other long after the relationship died for fear of actually saying the words "I'm alone".
Anyway I think it's worked out the best way it could have for both of us. I don't know of we can be friends or not; I don't believe either of us has been in love with the other for a long time now so, who knows. The future can take care of itself.
I just hope he understood and remembers the conversation. Sober and rational I am pretty sure it's what he wants too; drunk is a different story.
I feel very positive and hopeful after sleeping on it anyway; it's a bright sunny morning and daughter woke me early to complain she had too much stuff to take to school; I drove, we stopped for coffee, and now I have time to walk the dog quickly before I start my 'day".
Yay