Suggestions for protecting my children when ex is starting recovery?
dragonflyinn said
Oct 3, 2016
Hi, I am new to the boards. This is my first post. I was with my ex for 18 years. We had been married for 11, and have been divorced for 2. We have three young children (range from 8-6). He drank a lot when we were married, but would not have classified him as an "alcholic" at the time (but I may have been blind to it). He lied constantly and that is one of the many reasons that led to divorce. Long story short, we have had a mostly amicable split. We talk and have no issues being in the same place at the same time. I find that I continue to be frustrated because he is not dependable etc. About 3 weeks ago I got a call from his mom and I took him to the ER. He essentially refused medical treatment and was in a bad state. One week ago he finally admitted that what he was going through was detox from alcohol and that is why he refused treatment. He says that he has been clean for 3 weeks and he is attending AA meetings. I remember smelling alcohol on him a week after the ER incident but I could be imagining that (although I don't believe that I am).
So, now I am not sure what steps I need to take to protect my kids. He basically said that he would have to drink in the morning to avoid physical illness from withdrawal yet maintains he never drove drunk with the kids. When I asked if this is why the kids say you can't stay away, he said no it is because I am tired. When I asked if this is why he had to pull over and vomit while driving the kids 4 weeks ago he said no it was because I ate bad food.
I want to be supportive and understanding and I am proud of him for trying to get help, but above all I want to protect my kids and their safety. Do any of you have similar situations that you have been in? Would you be willing to share what changes you made to parenting plans to protect your kids? I am not sure what I can do beacuse he is now saying that he is clean? I know relapse rate is high, and I also feel really uncomfortable because I am not sure what you can do other than rely on his report and he is not to be trusted in my opinion. Any help or guidance you can provide would be very much appreciated.
Thank you
-- Edited by dragonflyinn on Monday 3rd of October 2016 02:24:22 PM
Mattie said
Oct 3, 2016
From my experience, I would not let an alcoholic be in charge of my kids unless he had been working a program of recovery with no sign of lapses for at least a year, maybe two or three years. Because the relapse rate is so high, and because (as you know) they cannot be trusted to report truthfully on their recovery. A few weeks is no time at all, although I'm sure to an alcoholic it seems like years. But even when they are staying sober, their judgment is all wonky and their ability to be mature and responsible is not so good. And I would bet that your hunches are right on the money - that the things you mention show that he is not 100% sober anyway.
What I said to my A (alcoholic) was, "I have no way of knowing whether you've been drinking or not. All I can know is when you're behaving in a way that seems like the way you behaved when you were drinking. I do not dare take a chance with my child's safety. So when you are behaving in a way that makes me worried that you've been drinking, I will [whatever the situation was - keep my child home, or whatever]." At first he would roll his eyes and argue and act like I was crazy, but after a while he'd just roll his eyes and go home. Because if I'm going to err, I'm going to err on the side of my child's safety. A kid can't necessarily know when dad is too drunk to drive, and doesn't have the willpower and savvy to get out of dangerous situations. So I have to be the wall of defense between the alcoholic and the kid.
If your A causes trouble about this, I'd suggest getting a lawyer who's had a lot of experience dealing with issues of custody and alcoholism. And also, write down every instance that worries you - the vomiting, etc. - with a note about the date and circumstances. You might not need all that, but better to have it and not need it than the other way around.
I hope you have an Al-Anon meeting? Nobody should have to go through this without support! Take good care of yourself. Hugs.
hotrod said
Oct 3, 2016
Hi Dragonflyin,Welcome to MIP(the name of our website). It is wonderful that your ex is seeking recovery from this dreadful disease. I would like to suggest that you also seek Al-Anon which was founded to help families of alcoholics. Living with the disease causes many of us to develop negative coping tools which are destructive to our emotional health and everyday life. Al-Anon has great literature, which can also help to answer many questions you might have, one that I would recommend is Alcoholism The Family Disease, and our daily reader Courage to Change. Face-to-face meetings are held in most communities and hot line numbers in the white pages.
As far as the disease of alcoholism is concerned, you are wise to be suspicious. Denial is a powerful tool the alcoholic and we use in order to survive this disease. I would not allow my husband to drive children before he was in program for many years. Each of us must face our own decision so that going to Al-Anon will help you along the way.
Please keep coming back you're not alone
Iamhere said
Oct 3, 2016
I too send welcomes to you dragonflyin - glad you found us and glad that you shared....I do not have personal experience in this arena as I stayed with my A (partially to avoid these scenarios, and partially because I still loved him). I do have a few friends who've encountered this and they did work it through the lawyers and court process. Since the relationship has been amiable so far, you might best be served by letting the professionals engage with him, develop a working plan and monitor progress.
My county/state have a group set up exactly for this. They are an extended arm of the social services and CPS division. They did a good job here when we had enough issues that the state got involved in the custody of my first born child. He was completely out of control and threatening to harm/kill me and his brother and informed a judge in criminal court that his father was beating him. It was a nightmare with the courts, but this agency was very knowledgeable, helpful and truly put the family first. Not knowing how your custody is currently designed, I'd consider action sooner rather than later - one of my friends was in contempt of her custody agreement when she did not allow his children to go with her x....even though he was visibly altered.
I too recommend local Al-Anon meetings. There you will find others who have also lived with this disease, divorced from this disease, shared children, etc. We don't necessarily give advice, but do share ESH (Experience, Strength & Hope) with each other. It's a great program, and a safe place to share without fear of judgement and/or advice. All affected by the disease are welcome!
Keep coming back - there is hope and help in recovering from the disease. I too hope the best for your ex - it's a progressive disease and it sounds like he's at a point where he understands it's causing issues in his life. Sending positive thoughts and prayers your way!
dragonflyinn said
Oct 3, 2016
Thank you so much for your kind welcome and support. I have already looked up al anon meetings in the area and am planning to go next week.
I suppose I'm struggling with being the bad guy because everyone just thinks he's such a nice guy and he does a good job of playing the victim but I don't care when it comes to my kids. I will do what's best for their safety. I will continue to look for some local agencies as well but have come up empty handed so far. I tried to talk with his mother, who is one of the only other people that he's told, and she basically told me to not bother him and just look forward because he's working on getting better.
I've read that relapse rates are around 90%.
The whole process is terrifying and frustrating! I appreciate your continued support.
Jerry F said
Oct 3, 2016
welcome Dragonflyinn and please continue to hang around with us learning about this disease which is soooo cunning powerful and baffling. In time you will come to see and understand as we have the consequences of insanity, sobriety or death which doesn't have to come out that way when the alcoholic and family find recovery. Check in the white pages of your telephone book for the hotline number for Al-Anon and go as early as you can...look thru the literature that is available and stay and listen to the old timers who will share their Experience, Strength and Hope with you. Some of them might be "doubles" or members of both AA and Al-Anon and have a wide view of this very destructive, disastrous disease and please come back to MIP often to learn ...and to teach. (((((hugs)))))
Hi, I am new to the boards. This is my first post. I was with my ex for 18 years. We had been married for 11, and have been divorced for 2. We have three young children (range from 8-6). He drank a lot when we were married, but would not have classified him as an "alcholic" at the time (but I may have been blind to it). He lied constantly and that is one of the many reasons that led to divorce. Long story short, we have had a mostly amicable split. We talk and have no issues being in the same place at the same time. I find that I continue to be frustrated because he is not dependable etc. About 3 weeks ago I got a call from his mom and I took him to the ER. He essentially refused medical treatment and was in a bad state. One week ago he finally admitted that what he was going through was detox from alcohol and that is why he refused treatment. He says that he has been clean for 3 weeks and he is attending AA meetings. I remember smelling alcohol on him a week after the ER incident but I could be imagining that (although I don't believe that I am).
So, now I am not sure what steps I need to take to protect my kids. He basically said that he would have to drink in the morning to avoid physical illness from withdrawal yet maintains he never drove drunk with the kids. When I asked if this is why the kids say you can't stay away, he said no it is because I am tired. When I asked if this is why he had to pull over and vomit while driving the kids 4 weeks ago he said no it was because I ate bad food.
I want to be supportive and understanding and I am proud of him for trying to get help, but above all I want to protect my kids and their safety. Do any of you have similar situations that you have been in? Would you be willing to share what changes you made to parenting plans to protect your kids? I am not sure what I can do beacuse he is now saying that he is clean? I know relapse rate is high, and I also feel really uncomfortable because I am not sure what you can do other than rely on his report and he is not to be trusted in my opinion. Any help or guidance you can provide would be very much appreciated.
Thank you
-- Edited by dragonflyinn on Monday 3rd of October 2016 02:24:22 PM
From my experience, I would not let an alcoholic be in charge of my kids unless he had been working a program of recovery with no sign of lapses for at least a year, maybe two or three years. Because the relapse rate is so high, and because (as you know) they cannot be trusted to report truthfully on their recovery. A few weeks is no time at all, although I'm sure to an alcoholic it seems like years. But even when they are staying sober, their judgment is all wonky and their ability to be mature and responsible is not so good. And I would bet that your hunches are right on the money - that the things you mention show that he is not 100% sober anyway.
What I said to my A (alcoholic) was, "I have no way of knowing whether you've been drinking or not. All I can know is when you're behaving in a way that seems like the way you behaved when you were drinking. I do not dare take a chance with my child's safety. So when you are behaving in a way that makes me worried that you've been drinking, I will [whatever the situation was - keep my child home, or whatever]." At first he would roll his eyes and argue and act like I was crazy, but after a while he'd just roll his eyes and go home. Because if I'm going to err, I'm going to err on the side of my child's safety. A kid can't necessarily know when dad is too drunk to drive, and doesn't have the willpower and savvy to get out of dangerous situations. So I have to be the wall of defense between the alcoholic and the kid.
If your A causes trouble about this, I'd suggest getting a lawyer who's had a lot of experience dealing with issues of custody and alcoholism. And also, write down every instance that worries you - the vomiting, etc. - with a note about the date and circumstances. You might not need all that, but better to have it and not need it than the other way around.
I hope you have an Al-Anon meeting? Nobody should have to go through this without support! Take good care of yourself. Hugs.
Hi Dragonflyin,Welcome to MIP(the name of our website). It is wonderful that your ex is seeking recovery from this dreadful disease. I would like to suggest that you also seek Al-Anon which was founded to help families of alcoholics. Living with the disease causes many of us to develop negative coping tools which are destructive to our emotional health and everyday life. Al-Anon has great literature, which can also help to answer many questions you might have, one that I would recommend is Alcoholism The Family Disease, and our daily reader Courage to Change. Face-to-face meetings are held in most communities and hot line numbers in the white pages.
As far as the disease of alcoholism is concerned, you are wise to be suspicious. Denial is a powerful tool the alcoholic and we use in order to survive this disease. I would not allow my husband to drive children before he was in program for many years. Each of us must face our own decision so that going to Al-Anon will help you along the way.
Please keep coming back you're not alone
My county/state have a group set up exactly for this. They are an extended arm of the social services and CPS division. They did a good job here when we had enough issues that the state got involved in the custody of my first born child. He was completely out of control and threatening to harm/kill me and his brother and informed a judge in criminal court that his father was beating him. It was a nightmare with the courts, but this agency was very knowledgeable, helpful and truly put the family first. Not knowing how your custody is currently designed, I'd consider action sooner rather than later - one of my friends was in contempt of her custody agreement when she did not allow his children to go with her x....even though he was visibly altered.
I too recommend local Al-Anon meetings. There you will find others who have also lived with this disease, divorced from this disease, shared children, etc. We don't necessarily give advice, but do share ESH (Experience, Strength & Hope) with each other. It's a great program, and a safe place to share without fear of judgement and/or advice. All affected by the disease are welcome!
Keep coming back - there is hope and help in recovering from the disease. I too hope the best for your ex - it's a progressive disease and it sounds like he's at a point where he understands it's causing issues in his life. Sending positive thoughts and prayers your way!
welcome Dragonflyinn and please continue to hang around with us learning about this disease which is soooo cunning powerful and baffling. In time you will come to see and understand as we have the consequences of insanity, sobriety or death which doesn't have to come out that way when the alcoholic and family find recovery. Check in the white pages of your telephone book for the hotline number for Al-Anon and go as early as you can...look thru the literature that is available and stay and listen to the old timers who will share their Experience, Strength and Hope with you. Some of them might be "doubles" or members of both AA and Al-Anon and have a wide view of this very destructive, disastrous disease and please come back to MIP often to learn ...and to teach. (((((hugs)))))