I think my AH just hit a crisis - but I'm not sure. I'm not sure what to make of the way events and the truth have unfolded. I would appreciate some ESH in navigating through this.
We've been separated for a year, but this month we had some therapist friends come and do some intensive work with us. Their goal was to give us some tools to build more trust so that we can communicate better, whether we stay together or not. My other goal was for more clarity. I don't want to live in this limbo much longer. I don't think it's good for any of us.
Meanwhile, although the weekend session went well, my AH seems to be hitting new lows, these last few months, in terms of honesty. I discovered he has been coming into my home, when I am not here, even coming in my bedroom. He has not asked for, nor been given keys to this house, as boundaries are one of our biggest issues.
Last Friday, we had a follow-up Skype session with our therapist supporting us in a meeting to discuss our most important current things we need addressed... stuff like our parenting schedule, etc. I brought up the issue of my locked house being entered, and how it has really eroded my sense of security. When I was done talking, he just calmly looked at me and said "I don't know what you are talking about." I said that I had proof. He did not budge. He did not get indignant at being falsely accused, nor concerned that someone else can enter my home (if it's not him, as he says). I know he was lying, and the calmness and lack of reaction freaked me out.
That was Friday. Later that day, my kids told me their dad had crashed our truck on Thursday night. He didnt tell any of us - they just noticed when they got in it to be driven to me Friday night. He said he hit a tree. He was vague about what tree. My son and I suspected he hit another car. On Monday, I went online (my small town has its own Facebook page). I was horrified to read that an acquaintance had been victim of a hit and run on Thursday night, when a mystery truck struck her boyfriend's vehicle in the middle of an intersection with the 2-lane highway. The person drove away from the scene! I realized it was my husband and our truck! I seriously went ballistic inside, at the horror of it. That he successfully hid this fact through our hour meeting face to face on Friday, sitting eye to eye. At the lack of integrity. At the fears it raised again about how much he might be drinking, and still driving our kids.
Our friend played intermediary. She confronted him and he came clean. She told him that he needed to turn himself in, as the police were looking for this mystery vehicle. He did so - he called the owner of the other vehicle, and they are working it out. He has to talk to the police, but they are treating it as no big deal, since nobody was hurt, and they now can access his insurance company. My AH seemed pretty freaked out about it. He did cry a little bit, and apologized to me. But mostly he is focused on "fixing it" - which sounds to me like avoiding legal issues is a victory to him, rather than looking at his behavior/choices.
Meanwhile, our therapist friend is providing a lot of support to him. She recognized his great difficulty with accountability, and truth, and she I think is trying to work with him to access some of his deeper feelings that he is hiding from. Today, they did some deep work, and then he called me. He owned up to a lot of stuff, in terms of how he has treated himself in the past, and how it has led to some of his problems. He said he is going to call his sponsor and start going to AA again. ( He hasn't gone in months now.) He said he left the scene of the accident because he was having a nervous breakdown... "you have no idea how difficult this time has been" etc.
Well. I'm glad if he's going to start going to AA again. When this crisis popped up, I welcomed it, thinking this could be the wake up call he needs. And it might be. I truly suspect he was drinking, which is why he fled the scene. He didn't want to get a DUI. He got out of that one - nobody will know he was drinking. He hasn't addressed the fact that he lied to me about the key. He did not come clean on the hit and run for four days - and probably never would have if I hadn't put 2 and 2 together. He did do the right thing and turn himself in. BUT - as I try to figure out what to do next, about my marriage, a part of me feels that his assertions that he is going to start going to AA again, etc, are just bluffs. To distract me from the truth of what's really going on with him. He still asserts that he doesn't have a drinking problem. He's going to AA again because "it helps." What he does is his business. So I'm not trying to judge his genuineness about AA or whatever. I'm trying to strip this down, because I need to get out of this ambiguous place. I am always hopeful that he will embrace recovery, but I know that I cannot keep living with lies. Including lies of omission. I find myself wanting to cut him slack because he "turned himself in" - and then I remember he only did so because I found out. I wonder if everything since then is just distraction, to keep me from realizing that he is lying more and more - to me, the kids, and to himself.
I'd like to think he has turned a corner, with his new-found openness to his own harmful patterns. But lies about the key, and the crash, are very fresh - just four days ago.
I got to a meeting last night, and processed a bit... but only today am I feeling this sense of being played... of him distracting me from the essence of what is going on (lies) by his focus on his "growth".
oceanpine said
Sep 28, 2016
Ugh - I wish I could write more succinctly. I just reread my long post, and feel kind of embarrassed to ask anyone to take that much time to read it.
If you do, thanks in advance. :)
hotrod said
Sep 28, 2016
((Oceanpine))I had no problem reading through your post. It was clear and through .
As I reflected on the events that you presented, I could recognize the pattern that your ex has exhibited regarding the truth. My sister behaves likewise. When I talk to her children about what she says they tell me "oh do not believe a word mom says she tells you only what she wants you to hear and it is not the truth as she is afraid of hurting your feelings or frightening you". I know that she developed this habit as a child growing up in an alcoholic family. She was the oldest and the one held accountable for everything She protected all her siblings with made up stories and this is still dealing with life in the same manner.
I caution you that understanding why someone behaves in such a manner does not help in making a decision.
Remembering that we are powerless over alcoholism and that it is a dreadful, chronic, progressive disease that can be arrested and not cured is important to your decision making.
Positive thoughts and prayers on the way.
milkwood said
Sep 28, 2016
((((Oceanpine)))))
Glad you put this out there and I'm sorry that you've had to go through this. Your story reminds me of a similar experience involving AH, a wildfire and the police. I was thankful that something came up that was a useful illustration of how somebody's judgement can get messed up. Wasn't my problem to deal with though. So frustrating when you thought that some counselling was doing you some good though - that must be disappointing.
Is it worth getting your locks changed by the way?
Sending ((((hugs)))). Good to see you and I'm sorry about the crazies that brought you here.
el-cee said
Sep 28, 2016
I think hes showing you who he is through his actions. Hes been sneaking into your house, hes still drinking and could have killed someone. It is what it is. Are you looking for reasons to get back with him in the near future? Are you looking for the slither of hope that hes on the way to dealing with himself and his disease and changing? It sounds as if hes playing at it, going to a therapist as if to say, see im changing and at the same time is involved in a hit and run. Hes sick and is still sick, it doesnt mean he will always be sick but hes showing no signs really of feeling the need to make that real spiritual journey, why would he? Hes still got your attention, hes got you living in the hope, and my own experience of alcoholics is they will do the absolute minimum needed to keep things going their way, so hes dipping his toe in to it all, most likely for your benefit than for any real desire to improve his life.
You have all the evidence you need to work with by the sound of it. I think whats important i whats going on inside you, are you having trouble accepting the man he is at this moment? Do you want to move things on and begin living together again? If so, you could keep getting what you have always got. Whats stopping you from moving on, you managed to leave him, it might be worthwhile looking at what it is that stops you making that clean break and building a good life for yourself, its as if your waiting on him to get it together in order to begin living again. The waiting game is such a waste and the sober man your waitng on may never be a reality. My sponsor sadi to me, live fully because its later than you think. This stuck in my mind. Meetings, steps and sponsor are the key to freedom from this.
oceanpine said
Sep 28, 2016
Milkwood, yes, I did get my locks changed. Whew. I actually changed them the day before bringing it up. I feel better, except that I don't feel like I can give my kids keys to their own home! Or he will just do the same again! So I'm wrestling with that, cuz they have been locked out a few times, and I'm sure it is one more impediment to feeling like mom's new home is actually their home too.
Thank you Betty and El-Cee. Good things to reflect on. Will be back later, after getting kids to school etc.
Hope your days are all starting or going beautifully!
Iamhere said
Sep 28, 2016
(((oceanpine))) - I too had no issues in reading through the post. One suggestion I have....my boys were forever loosing keys to our home....perhaps a garage door opener with a keypad? This saved my sanity and I got one that I could change the code easily and did so....just a thought.
As far as the rest - my boys and my husband are just as Betty describes her sister. They say what they think I want to hear - big things, little things - and it's a habit now. It's been going on so, so long - it just is what it is. My number one goal is serenity and one value I have - top one maybe - is honesty. So - when I got in recovery and kept saying, Yeah but.....I was told over and over and over again that insanity was doing the same things over and over again expecting different results. My sponsor finally suggested that if I stopped asking questions, they would not have to lie with answers. So - I did this. I just let them lead conversations, discussions, etc. I also learned to make I statements that were not formulated in question format which was a lovely gift as I tended to phrase most things as questions without realizing it. A part of me was constantly seeking agreement, assurance, and tons more using this habit.
I know mine have all gone through my things and rifled around. It was very concerning to me as I would never do this. I had to accept that my values are not in line with others. My actionable step was to take anything private/important to me and put it in a safety deposit box. While I can not control others, I can take steps to give me more peace of mind.
We did tons and tons of counseling. Looking back, I realize it was pointless as nobody really wanted it but me. I am sorry you are in this spot and hope that you are taking good care of you. Keep close to your program and your tools. I'm sending you positive thoughts and prayers...
Ceelee said
Sep 28, 2016
I also can relate to your post. My AH is a chronic liar. He will lie about big things and small. I mean he can walk out of the bathroom and I watch him, then if I ask " hey were you just in the bathroom?", he'll say no.
My brother was the even worse. It is the alcoholism talking.
It has been suggested to me to wait until my AH has at least a year if sobriey to even think about therapy or even him telling the truth. My AH is still actively drinking so I have a long wait.
We are powerless over them. Take care of yourself. (((Hugs)))
I think my AH just hit a crisis - but I'm not sure. I'm not sure what to make of the way events and the truth have unfolded. I would appreciate some ESH in navigating through this.
We've been separated for a year, but this month we had some therapist friends come and do some intensive work with us. Their goal was to give us some tools to build more trust so that we can communicate better, whether we stay together or not. My other goal was for more clarity. I don't want to live in this limbo much longer. I don't think it's good for any of us.
Meanwhile, although the weekend session went well, my AH seems to be hitting new lows, these last few months, in terms of honesty. I discovered he has been coming into my home, when I am not here, even coming in my bedroom. He has not asked for, nor been given keys to this house, as boundaries are one of our biggest issues.
Last Friday, we had a follow-up Skype session with our therapist supporting us in a meeting to discuss our most important current things we need addressed... stuff like our parenting schedule, etc. I brought up the issue of my locked house being entered, and how it has really eroded my sense of security. When I was done talking, he just calmly looked at me and said "I don't know what you are talking about." I said that I had proof. He did not budge. He did not get indignant at being falsely accused, nor concerned that someone else can enter my home (if it's not him, as he says). I know he was lying, and the calmness and lack of reaction freaked me out.
That was Friday. Later that day, my kids told me their dad had crashed our truck on Thursday night. He didnt tell any of us - they just noticed when they got in it to be driven to me Friday night. He said he hit a tree. He was vague about what tree. My son and I suspected he hit another car. On Monday, I went online (my small town has its own Facebook page). I was horrified to read that an acquaintance had been victim of a hit and run on Thursday night, when a mystery truck struck her boyfriend's vehicle in the middle of an intersection with the 2-lane highway. The person drove away from the scene! I realized it was my husband and our truck! I seriously went ballistic inside, at the horror of it. That he successfully hid this fact through our hour meeting face to face on Friday, sitting eye to eye. At the lack of integrity. At the fears it raised again about how much he might be drinking, and still driving our kids.
Our friend played intermediary. She confronted him and he came clean. She told him that he needed to turn himself in, as the police were looking for this mystery vehicle. He did so - he called the owner of the other vehicle, and they are working it out. He has to talk to the police, but they are treating it as no big deal, since nobody was hurt, and they now can access his insurance company. My AH seemed pretty freaked out about it. He did cry a little bit, and apologized to me. But mostly he is focused on "fixing it" - which sounds to me like avoiding legal issues is a victory to him, rather than looking at his behavior/choices.
Meanwhile, our therapist friend is providing a lot of support to him. She recognized his great difficulty with accountability, and truth, and she I think is trying to work with him to access some of his deeper feelings that he is hiding from. Today, they did some deep work, and then he called me. He owned up to a lot of stuff, in terms of how he has treated himself in the past, and how it has led to some of his problems. He said he is going to call his sponsor and start going to AA again. ( He hasn't gone in months now.) He said he left the scene of the accident because he was having a nervous breakdown... "you have no idea how difficult this time has been" etc.
Well. I'm glad if he's going to start going to AA again. When this crisis popped up, I welcomed it, thinking this could be the wake up call he needs. And it might be. I truly suspect he was drinking, which is why he fled the scene. He didn't want to get a DUI. He got out of that one - nobody will know he was drinking. He hasn't addressed the fact that he lied to me about the key. He did not come clean on the hit and run for four days - and probably never would have if I hadn't put 2 and 2 together. He did do the right thing and turn himself in. BUT - as I try to figure out what to do next, about my marriage, a part of me feels that his assertions that he is going to start going to AA again, etc, are just bluffs. To distract me from the truth of what's really going on with him. He still asserts that he doesn't have a drinking problem. He's going to AA again because "it helps." What he does is his business. So I'm not trying to judge his genuineness about AA or whatever. I'm trying to strip this down, because I need to get out of this ambiguous place. I am always hopeful that he will embrace recovery, but I know that I cannot keep living with lies. Including lies of omission. I find myself wanting to cut him slack because he "turned himself in" - and then I remember he only did so because I found out. I wonder if everything since then is just distraction, to keep me from realizing that he is lying more and more - to me, the kids, and to himself.
I'd like to think he has turned a corner, with his new-found openness to his own harmful patterns. But lies about the key, and the crash, are very fresh - just four days ago.
I got to a meeting last night, and processed a bit... but only today am I feeling this sense of being played... of him distracting me from the essence of what is going on (lies) by his focus on his "growth".
If you do, thanks in advance. :)
As I reflected on the events that you presented, I could recognize the pattern that your ex has exhibited regarding the truth. My sister behaves likewise. When I talk to her children about what she says they tell me "oh do not believe a word mom says she tells you only what she wants you to hear and it is not the truth as she is afraid of hurting your feelings or frightening you". I know that she developed this habit as a child growing up in an alcoholic family. She was the oldest and the one held accountable for everything She protected all her siblings with made up stories and this is still dealing with life in the same manner.
I caution you that understanding why someone behaves in such a manner does not help in making a decision.
Remembering that we are powerless over alcoholism and that it is a dreadful, chronic, progressive disease that can be arrested and not cured is important to your decision making.
Positive thoughts and prayers on the way.
Glad you put this out there and I'm sorry that you've had to go through this. Your story reminds me of a similar experience involving AH, a wildfire and the police. I was thankful that something came up that was a useful illustration of how somebody's judgement can get messed up. Wasn't my problem to deal with though. So frustrating when you thought that some counselling was doing you some good though - that must be disappointing.
Is it worth getting your locks changed by the way?
Sending ((((hugs)))). Good to see you and I'm sorry about the crazies that brought you here.
I think hes showing you who he is through his actions. Hes been sneaking into your house, hes still drinking and could have killed someone. It is what it is. Are you looking for reasons to get back with him in the near future? Are you looking for the slither of hope that hes on the way to dealing with himself and his disease and changing? It sounds as if hes playing at it, going to a therapist as if to say, see im changing and at the same time is involved in a hit and run. Hes sick and is still sick, it doesnt mean he will always be sick but hes showing no signs really of feeling the need to make that real spiritual journey, why would he? Hes still got your attention, hes got you living in the hope, and my own experience of alcoholics is they will do the absolute minimum needed to keep things going their way, so hes dipping his toe in to it all, most likely for your benefit than for any real desire to improve his life.
You have all the evidence you need to work with by the sound of it. I think whats important i whats going on inside you, are you having trouble accepting the man he is at this moment? Do you want to move things on and begin living together again? If so, you could keep getting what you have always got. Whats stopping you from moving on, you managed to leave him, it might be worthwhile looking at what it is that stops you making that clean break and building a good life for yourself, its as if your waiting on him to get it together in order to begin living again. The waiting game is such a waste and the sober man your waitng on may never be a reality. My sponsor sadi to me, live fully because its later than you think. This stuck in my mind. Meetings, steps and sponsor are the key to freedom from this.
Thank you Betty and El-Cee. Good things to reflect on. Will be back later, after getting kids to school etc.
Hope your days are all starting or going beautifully!
As far as the rest - my boys and my husband are just as Betty describes her sister. They say what they think I want to hear - big things, little things - and it's a habit now. It's been going on so, so long - it just is what it is. My number one goal is serenity and one value I have - top one maybe - is honesty. So - when I got in recovery and kept saying, Yeah but.....I was told over and over and over again that insanity was doing the same things over and over again expecting different results. My sponsor finally suggested that if I stopped asking questions, they would not have to lie with answers. So - I did this. I just let them lead conversations, discussions, etc. I also learned to make I statements that were not formulated in question format which was a lovely gift as I tended to phrase most things as questions without realizing it. A part of me was constantly seeking agreement, assurance, and tons more using this habit.
I know mine have all gone through my things and rifled around. It was very concerning to me as I would never do this. I had to accept that my values are not in line with others. My actionable step was to take anything private/important to me and put it in a safety deposit box. While I can not control others, I can take steps to give me more peace of mind.
We did tons and tons of counseling. Looking back, I realize it was pointless as nobody really wanted it but me. I am sorry you are in this spot and hope that you are taking good care of you. Keep close to your program and your tools. I'm sending you positive thoughts and prayers...
I also can relate to your post. My AH is a chronic liar. He will lie about big things and small. I mean he can walk out of the bathroom and I watch him, then if I ask " hey were you just in the bathroom?", he'll say no.
My brother was the even worse. It is the alcoholism talking.
It has been suggested to me to wait until my AH has at least a year if sobriey to even think about therapy or even him telling the truth. My AH is still actively drinking so I have a long wait.
We are powerless over them. Take care of yourself. (((Hugs)))