Yesterday my teenaged daughter passed her drivers license exam and is a licensed driver, instead of celebrating with us, my AH, decided to feel sorry for himself because he couldn't find a job, and all his job searching fell through, and drown himself in the strip club of a nearby town, wrecked the bike again, this time breaking his leg requiring surgery some time today. Further, although he resides in a state that has temporary disability insurance, all of his work was in a state that does not, so in addition to the household bills I now have to be responsible for medical bills. So...in the hospital he said to me, "you hate me don't you?" I hate your disease was my response. I am not letting him come home from the hospital. He is to go to rehab again directly from the hospital. That is where I am at the moment.
Mattie said
Sep 27, 2016
Sounds like you are taking care of yourself. It might be wise to have a Plan B for when he leaves rehab, or finishes rehab and starts drinking again. I always found it helpful to have Plans B, C, and D.
hotrod said
Sep 27, 2016
((Fooled)))
el-cee said
Sep 27, 2016
'so in addition to the household bills I now have to be responsible for medical bills. ' Why? Why do you need to be responsible for all this? You dont and shouldnt. This would be enabling and would be taking on his consequences and his lesson. He done this, he should pay his own bills. I dont understand why you would pay this, is his bills in your name? It really sounds like you could do with Alanon, learn about the disease at meetings, learn about your part in it, how we become so enmeshed with our partners that we lose sight of our own individuality and our own responsibilities. You are not responsible for another human beings bills or consequences unless you choose to be. I learned about that at Alanon meetings and readings and from my sponsor. There is hope and freedom from this but you need to really want it and give it your all.
hotrod said
Sep 27, 2016
HI LC in the USA married folks are responsible for each others bills.
jojo8466 said
Sep 27, 2016
I'm sorry this happened to you. I'm sure your daughter feels very disappointed and let-down by her father. I hope things get better for both of you soon. Life is too short to have to deal with sadness, frustration and disappointment like this.
Fooled said
Sep 27, 2016
My plan B for when he finishes rehab and starts again is goodbye. He knows this. My plan B for when he gets out of rehab and comes home is you are on your own buddy. Figure it out. This time will not be the supportive, loving, co dependent wife holding and pushing the wheelbarrow. I know I sound cold and heartless, but I have reached my breaking point. Its time he suffered the full consequences. No cards, no cigarettes, stamps and envelopes. He has lost his job, his vehicle, cant ride his motorcycle, cant pay for his motorcycle now, the next thing he will lose is me. That's as far as Ive got. Please tell me that this is detachment with love?????
Thank you hotrod! I needed that.
el-cee said
Sep 27, 2016
Geez Louise!! so glad Im not in the USA then. Sorry, that is awful. I hope he gets to feel the full consequences of his disease and you protect you and your children from them as much as you can. Can you go for some sort of legal seperation? in order to protect your finances, or is it a case you have all got to go down with the sinking ship? Surely there is some legal way of separating the financial costs of someone else?
Fooled said
Sep 27, 2016
el-cee Yes, I am responsible for his medical bills. Its my insurance first of all so I am the responsible party. Trust me, if I could make him solely responsible I would. However, its a joint account anyway. Im his wife.
jojo I cant even say I am disappointed anymore. I am numb. My AH is my daughters stepfather. Her bio father is my ExAH also crystal meth addict, who didn't even acknowledge her birthday on Saturday. To feel let down by what should be positive relationships in her life is an understatement. I grew up thinking this was normal. My alcoholic father abandoned and disappointed me on so many levels. I have to make my daughter my focus...this is not normal.
jojo8466 said
Sep 27, 2016
I personally don't think you are being cold and heartless at all. You are applying consequences to his actions. Him not going out to celebrate your daughters achievment was cold and heartless. And his actions have now caused all this frustration and turmoil in your life. You have every right to feel angry and you have every right to do what you need to do to not let this happen to you and your daughter again.
Hang in there --- tomorrow will be a better day.
hotrod said
Sep 27, 2016
That sounds like detachment with love to me Fooled . Please be gentle with yourself .
Fooled said
Sep 27, 2016
el cee in sickness and in health, for richer or poorer..... its my health insurance. I have decided though that he is opening his own checking account. When and if he gets another job. If we are together.
Thanks jojo.
el-cee said
Sep 27, 2016
In sickness and health, sorry but I think my health is more important. These words surely are about equality within a relationship and leaving can be the healthiest thing to do for everyone. Im not saying that is what you should do but I took those vows too and I divorced and it was the right thing for myeand my children and also for him because when he was allowed to live how he saw fit and the consequences of his own choices were his alone he realised he didnt want that life for himself, hes been sober for a few years now and in AA. I doubt he would have got to that stage while we were all sacrificing our own lives for him.
Iamhere said
Sep 27, 2016
(((Suzann))) - sending you tons of prayers and positive thoughts. Just for today, focus on you and your wellness. I too agree that you are detaching with love and so understand that numb feeling. Right, wrong or indifferent, that numb place I arrived at was where I could actually process better with facts than with emotions. I tried not to stay there long, but it was - as with all things - a place HP put me so I could see clearly what the facts where and my choices.
You are a smart person are appear to be using your program to process. I believe your plans show great self-care. Keep taking care of you and your daughter one day at a time. She's lucky to have you and how cool that she's a licensed driver now. So sorry you are affected so much today by this darn disease - we're here for you and you are not alone!
el-cee said
Sep 27, 2016
I also think your plans are good and definitely detaching with love. The thing about love is it can be about loving ourselves first and putting ourselves and our children at the top of the priority list and then when we are doing whats right for us it seems to work out that was always what was good for them too. Its like seeing ourselves as all having the same opportunity to improve our life and if we all take on our own responsibility for our own life then it improves, living with alcoholism gets this all distorted and then before we know it were trying to make them happy at the expense of the whole family. A non spiritual view of love is pretty co-dependant, society or capitalism (sorry getting political) promotes this unhealthy attachment.
sunmustshine said
Sep 27, 2016
Congratulations to your daughter! What a great big deal it is to get her license. I share the concern for mine that you have about your daughter and the quality of life she has. I can relate to your feelings as they are the same as mine. Focus on celebrating your daughter and yourself for being your daughter's rock. You are awesome and so will she be because of you. I am as open as appropriate with my daughter so she knows it's her Dad's problem and not her secret to keep or burden to carry. I ask her how's she is feeling and keep her talking as much as I can so she can process her feelings. Maybe it's different for a teen, but you'll do what's best because you love her like no one else can. Focus on being kind to yourself today.
Fooled said
Sep 27, 2016
My health is important. My sanity is important. My children are important. I cant think about what I am going to do tomorrow or next month or how I am going to give him the respect to follow his own life as I don't know at this point what he is going to do. I am focusing on Today. He is having surgery in a few hours. There is a plan in motion for after - going back to rehab. He has a right to chose not to go, but the boundary has been set that is where we end. I have no idea what my HP-God has in store for me. I have to trust that it will be revealed. For now, I just have to realize he is in the depths of this disease and God is working in him. What he does with that is up to him. Im not racing to divorce court because that is now what is being revealed to me. I moved out of the way and let him get the full consequences of his disease. If one of those consequences is losing me so be it.
As for my daughter, I hope God is working in her too. I hope she is seeing that this is not normal despite it being her experience. I keep the lines of communication open. I initiate, respond, and guide. Its all I can do.
el-cee said
Sep 27, 2016
Sounds like you've got this your doing great. I hope you and your daughter get peace within all this.
Iamhere said
Sep 27, 2016
Agree - you are doing great and all that matters is the here/now. (((hugs)))
Fooled said
Sep 27, 2016
So this is what detachment with love feels like ??? cool. The surgery is over and unfortunately it was a little more involved than anticipated, from the years of alcohol abuse his bones are not "of good quality"-as the surgeon put it. He had to put screws and plates in places that may cause him to be less mobile than the average 49 year old. He may not be able to return to his usual line of work. The surgeon said that Alcoholism is a disease protected by the ADA and he may need to go back to the Veterans Administration and request vocational rehabilitation. I hope he doesn't see that as an enabler. My initial reaction was hey, you want me to look into that for you, but I stopped myself. Its his job. His family members are reaching out and encouraging him that obviously God has plans for him because he did not die in this accident. There are a few financial things I will need to address tomorrow on his behalf only because he is currently medicated heavily and cannot make those on his own. Once the pain is more managed he will be moved to inpatient alcohol treatment. He is currently on prophylaxis for DT. I saw him this evening and he was awake but still somewhat avoiding the topic. He agrees his behavior has been less than stellar. He agrees he needs to go back to rehab. He acknowledges that this is all him, but cannot admit to how sick he really is, how selfish he is, and that the lying, cheating, stealing, manipulating, are a manifestation of his disease. I hold no delusion. I know that this is far from over.
milkwood said
Sep 28, 2016
(((((Suzann))))))
IMHO you are detaching with love.
I hope that you can take steps to protect your finances as well. In the meantime, huge congratulations to your daughter on passing her driving test - I bet you feel such pride in her when you get a chance to think about it. I hope you both find a calm new day to celebrate properly.
hotrod said
Sep 28, 2016
((Fooled)) One Day at a Time, just keep showing up with HP and your alanon tools.
I have heard and know from painful experience that when living in a "forest of insanity and confusion" it only takes _"12 Steps" to come out into the sunshine. Positive thoughts on the way.
el-cee said
Sep 28, 2016
Hotrod, I love this 'when living in a "forest of insanity and confusion" it only takes _"12 Steps" to come out into the sunshine' Thank you x
hotrod said
Sep 28, 2016
(((LC)) it is so true.
Fooled said
Sep 28, 2016
the ramifications of loving an alcohol has hit me full bore today the last 5 years of the severity of his disease has hit me and I am crumbling under the exhaustion
Iamhere said
Sep 28, 2016
(((Fooled))) - breathe and be gentle with you. We're with you in spirit, and do understand where you are. Know that you are not alone!
hotrod said
Sep 28, 2016
((Suzann )) you are not alone. Just keep the focus on yourself, keep putting one foot in front of the other, trust HP and know that this too will pass. Believe me I know .
Fooled said
Sep 28, 2016
Thank you both so much. My Pastor stopped by this morning and counseled me on the same thing. Taking care of me. Concentrating on myself. But being still and letting go. Boy oh boy did I need permission to do this, as he called me all day wanting to know where I was why I wasn't up there at his bedside where "I belong" and I calmly told him that I was handling things on this end and trying to work and take care of the children, answer the plethora of phone calls from friends and family and I would be there as soon as I could. He accused me of leaving him there to die. I calmly said that he was in the hospital with trained professionals who were not going to let him die. When I get there he was so nasty to me, because they were talking about sending him to alcohol treatment center tonight and he really wanted to come home and get stronger apologize to everyone and then go. I said no. When he wanted a rationale I said I need a break from your chaos. I am done being manipulated and we both know if you come home you will not go. I acknowledged that he has a right to say no but that is where we go are separate ways because I am not backing down and letting him come home. Not without working on myself first. He then became angry because I would not "help" him sneak outside and smoke a cigarette. Its a non smoking facility..there are security everywhere and they have zero tolerance. It would be considered an AMA discharge. He yelled at me that as his wife I should "help" him and that if I chose to I could go get in my jeep light up and drive away. I said yes I could make that choice because I DID NOT MAKE THE CHOICE TO ABANDON MY DAUGHTER GO TO A STRIP CLUB GET DRUNK AND GET ON A MOTORCYCLE DUMP THE BIKE AND BREAK MY LEG. It felt soooooo good I then said if you want to be stupid and make the choice to try to sneak outside go ahead but Im not going to help you. So you can stop your temper tantrum and request a nicotine patch or I walk out the door right now. He knew I wasn't kidding. I wasn't backing down. So, ultimately the treatment facility declined him for tonight as they cannot meet his medical needs. I left him with the option of going to a mental health hospital or going to a skilled facility for pain management and therapy for a couple of weeks and then transitioning to the alcohol treatment center. He got angry at me again when I wouldn't "tell him what to do" Its not my recovery, I am working on my own. You made the choice to drink you make the choice on how to get treatment. I am thankful for my toolbox tonight.
milkwood said
Sep 29, 2016
Good on you Suzann, I'm impressed!
sunmustshine said
Sep 29, 2016
(((((Fooled)))))
Way to stand your ground where your boundaries are concerned. Great job detaching when he wanted you to decide where he should go. He is responsible for his recovery and the decisions required.
I'm sorry about the pressure your pastor put on you to be there while you were emotionally and physically depleted. Clearly he's not been in a personal realationship with an alcoholic or brought up to speed on Alanon. You are doing great.
lookingup said
Sep 29, 2016
(((((Fooled)))))),it's great we can always come here and get help with whatever we are going through,this board has saved me from losing my sanity over this desease more times than I can count....so happy your with us and sharing.....hugs lu
hotrod said
Sep 29, 2016
(((Fooled)) Good job of saying what you mean and meaning what you say without saying it mean. Keep taking care of yourself.
jojo8466 said
Sep 29, 2016
I'm very proud of you! I hope you feel proud of yourself also! He has been thinking only of himself for a very long time. It's time you start thinking of you and your daughter. He made his choice now he can live with the repercussions of his actions.
Iamhere said
Sep 29, 2016
Love that you were able to use the tools, set your boundaries and hold firm to self-care. One day at a time, we heal - keep working it - it looks good on you! My hope is you slept great - I always seemed to sleep better when mine were in the hospital, jail or a treatment center - I knew they were safe from themselves and the disease - if just for the night.
Keep coming back Suzann - you are not alone!
maryjane said
Sep 29, 2016
Oh, it must have been so hard to say what you said to him..... but still so good to be able to let it out and say it all. We tend to keep all our negative feelings inside of us because it is not polite or respectful to let it out and we usually get negative consequences when we do let it out. I admire you for being able to follow through on what you have been thinking about for the last couple of days. Good for you.
Keep on taking care of yourself and congratulations to your daughter for her license.
tired of it said
Sep 29, 2016
Fooled wrote:
My plan B for when he finishes rehab and starts again is goodbye. He knows this. My plan B for when he gets out of rehab and comes home is you are on your own buddy. Figure it out. This time will not be the supportive, loving, co dependent wife holding and pushing the wheelbarrow. I know I sound cold and heartless, but I have reached my breaking point. Its time he suffered the full consequences. No cards, no cigarettes, stamps and envelopes. He has lost his job, his vehicle, cant ride his motorcycle, cant pay for his motorcycle now, the next thing he will lose is me. That's as far as Ive got. Please tell me that this is detachment with love?????
Thank you hotrod! I needed that.
You are most definitely NOT cold and heartless!! Sounds like you are taking care of yourself and your daughter. We can only take so much with our A's before we lose it. Don't you dare feel bad or think you are doing anything wrong! My prayers are with you!
Fooled said
Sep 29, 2016
Thank you all so much. Actually Maryjane it was not that hard once I got going. Once I got the backbone. Lookingup you are so right. I had the tools I just had to come back here to figure out I had them.
Unfortunately, he didn't meet the criteria to go to inpatient treatment according to the social worker at the facility. Personally, I think the social worker just couldn't find someone to take him and gave up but nevertheless I had to bring him home tonight. He is scheduled for intake for outpatient on Tuesday. One good thing is he isn't going to be going anywhere...he is pretty much housebound.
This may sound mean but the man who was convinced when he was wheeled in the house that he didn't need my help or anybody elses he could do this on his own and take care of himself found out he couldn't even take a shower without me. It was kind of fun to watch him eat crow and humble himself. For once he was grateful.
Iamhere said
Sep 30, 2016
(((Suzann))) - sending you prayers and positive thoughts.
Yesterday my teenaged daughter passed her drivers license exam and is a licensed driver, instead of celebrating with us, my AH, decided to feel sorry for himself because he couldn't find a job, and all his job searching fell through, and drown himself in the strip club of a nearby town, wrecked the bike again, this time breaking his leg requiring surgery some time today. Further, although he resides in a state that has temporary disability insurance, all of his work was in a state that does not, so in addition to the household bills I now have to be responsible for medical bills. So...in the hospital he said to me, "you hate me don't you?" I hate your disease was my response. I am not letting him come home from the hospital. He is to go to rehab again directly from the hospital. That is where I am at the moment.
Sounds like you are taking care of yourself. It might be wise to have a Plan B for when he leaves rehab, or finishes rehab and starts drinking again. I always found it helpful to have Plans B, C, and D.
'so in addition to the household bills I now have to be responsible for medical bills. ' Why? Why do you need to be responsible for all this? You dont and shouldnt. This would be enabling and would be taking on his consequences and his lesson. He done this, he should pay his own bills. I dont understand why you would pay this, is his bills in your name? It really sounds like you could do with Alanon, learn about the disease at meetings, learn about your part in it, how we become so enmeshed with our partners that we lose sight of our own individuality and our own responsibilities. You are not responsible for another human beings bills or consequences unless you choose to be. I learned about that at Alanon meetings and readings and from my sponsor. There is hope and freedom from this but you need to really want it and give it your all.
Thank you hotrod! I needed that.
jojo I cant even say I am disappointed anymore. I am numb. My AH is my daughters stepfather. Her bio father is my ExAH also crystal meth addict, who didn't even acknowledge her birthday on Saturday. To feel let down by what should be positive relationships in her life is an understatement. I grew up thinking this was normal. My alcoholic father abandoned and disappointed me on so many levels. I have to make my daughter my focus...this is not normal.
Hang in there --- tomorrow will be a better day.
Thanks jojo.
You are a smart person are appear to be using your program to process. I believe your plans show great self-care. Keep taking care of you and your daughter one day at a time. She's lucky to have you and how cool that she's a licensed driver now. So sorry you are affected so much today by this darn disease - we're here for you and you are not alone!
As for my daughter, I hope God is working in her too. I hope she is seeing that this is not normal despite it being her experience. I keep the lines of communication open. I initiate, respond, and guide. Its all I can do.
IMHO you are detaching with love.
I hope that you can take steps to protect your finances as well. In the meantime, huge congratulations to your daughter on passing her driving test - I bet you feel such pride in her when you get a chance to think about it. I hope you both find a calm new day to celebrate properly.
I have heard and know from painful experience that when living in a "forest of insanity and confusion" it only takes _"12 Steps" to come out into the sunshine. Positive thoughts on the way.
Keep coming back Suzann - you are not alone!
Keep on taking care of yourself and congratulations to your daughter for her license.
You are most definitely NOT cold and heartless!! Sounds like you are taking care of yourself and your daughter. We can only take so much with our A's before we lose it. Don't you dare feel bad or think you are doing anything wrong! My prayers are with you!
Unfortunately, he didn't meet the criteria to go to inpatient treatment according to the social worker at the facility. Personally, I think the social worker just couldn't find someone to take him and gave up but nevertheless I had to bring him home tonight. He is scheduled for intake for outpatient on Tuesday. One good thing is he isn't going to be going anywhere...he is pretty much housebound.
This may sound mean but the man who was convinced when he was wheeled in the house that he didn't need my help or anybody elses he could do this on his own and take care of himself found out he couldn't even take a shower without me. It was kind of fun to watch him eat crow and humble himself. For once he was grateful.