I am really trying to work my program. Enabling is very confusing to me and I have alot of trouble with it. I am not sure when I am doing and when I am not.
When my AH comes I try not to harass him. Somedays are better than others. I do what I would do if he was not drinking except for the harassing part.
Some days I love him alot and want to be with him and affectionate whether he is drinking or not. Is that ok/normal? Or am I just being used?
I don't give him money or make excuses for him. But he does do want he wants, comes and goes as he pleases, sleeps all the time. He doesn't do his end of the household chores like grass cutting until it is overwhelming. Once in awhile I will mention it.
I know I touched in a few things but am I enabling him? Is it ok to loving? I am very confused. It seems hard to detached when I miss him ( drunk or not ). Sometimes I will sit with him while he drinks maybe have a beer myself and we listen to music ir eat or whatever. Like we used to do before he got so sick. I know no one can give me advice but can you share your thoughts?Thanks for listening!
Jazzie18 said
Sep 22, 2016
Detaching with love is just that....living your life and still loving the A. To me it does not seem that you are enabling him. I definitely enabled my husband and made excuses for his behavior, isolated myself and stopped going out or socializing with people, bought him drinks, made excuses with the kids about his behavior when he was hungover and grouchy. Once I really learned about enabling I was able to stop and let him feel the consequences of his own actions. It became pretty clear to him when his disease really kicked into high gear and he was not functioning anymore. I can see where enabling is very confusing. I think as long as you are letting him live his life and feel/deal with the consequences of his drinking than you aren't enabling.
I do wonder the drinking with him if that is a bit enabling. My mom used to do this with my dad back when he was in the throws of his disease. I think this was a combination of her being in denial and also enabling. However, I think if you stop drinking because of him that isn't really fair either as you should be able to live your life too.
Be easy on yourself this all can be a bit confusing.
Ceelee said
Sep 22, 2016
Thank you Jazzie! Yes I am confused! I don't drink with him often. I think it is more trying to be "normal" like we used to be. I may have mentioned this but I am starting to question and secong guess everything I do. I'm very insecure. Not just with my AH, everything and everyone.
el-cee said
Sep 22, 2016
I felt like this at first too and it takes a lot of meetings, listening to others and reading the literature to really get a grasp of it and to understand it. Ive heard people say dont do for them what they should do for themselves. So its about not paying their bills, tidying up their mess, cleaning them up, getting them to bed, bailing them out of trouble in any way. Its not about punishing them or trying to change them. It comes with acceptance of step 1, we are powerless to change them but we can stop making their destructive path easy for them because when we help them we are harming them. I think loving someone is never a bad thing and if you still feel affection and warmth then of course enjoy that side of your relationship. For me sitting drinking with a person who has a problem with alcohol is a no no, just in my own opinion because I feel I would be minimising it or showing the wrong message that its all okay when it isnt, drink is killing them.
serenity47 said
Sep 22, 2016
Giving and receiving affection from the person that you love is a wonderful thing. With holding affection and love in hopes that they will change their behaviour is unhealthy, controlling behaviour. If you are able to carve out your own life, do your own thing while he comes and goes as he pleases then that is up to you. We all have different levels of what we want and require in a relationship and things change as time goes by. For me, I know that I could not ever sit and have a drink with my qualifier (AD). It is her poison, and I cannot bear to watch it or contribute to it in any way.
-- Edited by serenity47 on Thursday 22nd of September 2016 10:07:10 AM
Ceelee said
Sep 22, 2016
Thanks for sharing. As far as the drinking thing, I didn't drink with him for many years once he started showing signs of his illness. Before he was sick, yes we drank together and socially. We had alot of friends and we were always doing things. Not everything we did involved drinking but some things did.
Once he got sick I stopped drinking. It was only recently that I will here and there. Then I feel ashamed like I did something wrong but at the time it felt ok. Maybe my HP is trying to tell me something. I am not really as concerned about that as I am overall enabling him.
In my f2f Alanon meeting, a person that I was considering for a sponsor told me to ignore my husband when he was drinking. Fine but that would be pretty much every day, all day long.
I did that to my brother many years ago. My brother passed away at age 23 thinking I hated him. It was a terrible mistake on my part and one I live with every day. Had I known what was going to happen,I would have embraced my brother and smothered him with love until his final breath. I just can never do that to another person I love.
KennyFenderjazz said
Sep 22, 2016
To me, detaching with love could include ignoring the person, but not always. it's so much more complicated, but maybe sponsor is trying to give you something easy to start with.
To me, it's two things, mentioned above as well. 1. Not changing our lives to fit around theirs. My AW is a binger, and has relapsed, but doesn't drink much at this point, but when she does I can get so stressed, I just want to sit at home and make sure she doesn't hurt herself or some other inanimate object. But I also have a life, and have to get certain things done. last two times she binged I had to take son and help out at high school marching band events. I had to leave and do my thing, so I would take her keys with me to keep her and others safe as possible and try to make sure some things were battened down, and then just go.
2. letting them feel the consequences of their own actions. My wife didn't hit her bottom until she had her 2nd DUI, went to jail for a few days without bond, and realized she would probably lose custody of our son if she kept up. So she fixed it. But until that happened, there wasn't a dang thing I could do to stop her. In fact, on both DUIs, I had just read about detaching the days before and resolved that I would and then boom there came the consequences.
Kenny
MissM said
Sep 22, 2016
I think, if you view your program as always based on what is best for you, and never trying to guess what might "inspire" behavior in someone else, you can't go wrong. Do you want to be affectionate? Is it best for you? Then go for it. What impact that may or may not have on him is irrelevant. If you feel angry or hurt and don't want to be affectionate, then once again, do what is best for you. I think the idea of "enabling" is secondary to what is really important, and that is acting in your own best interest. I don't think we help anyone when we are about trying to manipulate someone into behaving a certain way. My understanding is that we come to al-anon to learn to take the action that is best for ourselves and let go of the idea that what we do might cause xyz to happen for someone else. Being ourselves and acting upon our own wants and needs is not only good for us, it helps the other person to learn that they are dealing with another person complete with wants, needs and their own agenda, not someone who is always walking on eggshells and trying to "get it right" for them. (which to me is enabling).
-- Edited by MissM on Thursday 22nd of September 2016 10:56:58 AM
Iamhere said
Sep 22, 2016
What I love about recovery is we get to determine what is good and working well in our lives, programs, relationships. If you want to have a beer - have a beer! If you don't feel like it, then follow that. For an alcoholic, that's not an option - it's a need. Be grateful that you have that choice as well as with affection, time together, etc. For me, if I am uncertain about what the 'next right thing is', I'll step back and work program - literature, discussion with program friend/sponsor, etc. If I am spiritually fit, I can move mountains, hang in bars, detach from crazy-train making behavior, etc. It's when I need a refill that I'm more likely to react or allow others control over my emotions.
We are to love everyone. The way we show love is through respect of self, others, HP. Nobody should ever tell you to not be you. After all, recovery is about becoming our best version of ourselves. There is never any shame to be had by being loving and lovely towards another, especially one you care for deeply. Choose you, do you and trust the process. More will always be revealed.
(((Hugs)))
Ceelee said
Sep 22, 2016
Thank you Kenny and MissM. I am trying to make it about myself without being selfish. Some days I just need to feel loved. I need to learn much much more about getting my needs met.
Unfortunately, right now I live a very lonely life so I also may be settling. I'm not sure. But like I originally said I just don't want to enable.
Someone, not on here, suggested that I was enabling him by trying to live normally. I am not in deniaL. I know he is an alcoholic and a very extreme one at that.
I am glad to have all the opinions and suggestions offered here. Like they say, I'll take what I need! You guys are all wonderful people! Peace and love to all of you.
Ceelee said
Sep 22, 2016
So very beautifully said Iamhere! Thank you more than words can say!
Iamhere said
Sep 22, 2016
(((Ceelee))) - you are a loving person and a lovable one. I am a firm believer that no HP wants any of us to be troubled, suffer, full of fear, pity or anything else negative. Our HP wants each of us to be happy, joyous and fee. If we don't work to nurture our own being - who will?
I am really trying to work my program. Enabling is very confusing to me and I have alot of trouble with it. I am not sure when I am doing and when I am not.
When my AH comes I try not to harass him. Somedays are better than others. I do what I would do if he was not drinking except for the harassing part.
Some days I love him alot and want to be with him and affectionate whether he is drinking or not. Is that ok/normal? Or am I just being used?
I don't give him money or make excuses for him. But he does do want he wants, comes and goes as he pleases, sleeps all the time. He doesn't do his end of the household chores like grass cutting until it is overwhelming. Once in awhile I will mention it.
I know I touched in a few things but am I enabling him? Is it ok to loving? I am very confused. It seems hard to detached when I miss him ( drunk or not ). Sometimes I will sit with him while he drinks maybe have a beer myself and we listen to music ir eat or whatever. Like we used to do before he got so sick. I know no one can give me advice but can you share your thoughts?Thanks for listening!
I do wonder the drinking with him if that is a bit enabling. My mom used to do this with my dad back when he was in the throws of his disease. I think this was a combination of her being in denial and also enabling. However, I think if you stop drinking because of him that isn't really fair either as you should be able to live your life too.
Be easy on yourself this all can be a bit confusing.
Thank you Jazzie! Yes I am confused! I don't drink with him often. I think it is more trying to be "normal" like we used to be. I may have mentioned this but I am starting to question and secong guess everything I do. I'm very insecure. Not just with my AH, everything and everyone.
I felt like this at first too and it takes a lot of meetings, listening to others and reading the literature to really get a grasp of it and to understand it. Ive heard people say dont do for them what they should do for themselves. So its about not paying their bills, tidying up their mess, cleaning them up, getting them to bed, bailing them out of trouble in any way. Its not about punishing them or trying to change them. It comes with acceptance of step 1, we are powerless to change them but we can stop making their destructive path easy for them because when we help them we are harming them. I think loving someone is never a bad thing and if you still feel affection and warmth then of course enjoy that side of your relationship. For me sitting drinking with a person who has a problem with alcohol is a no no, just in my own opinion because I feel I would be minimising it or showing the wrong message that its all okay when it isnt, drink is killing them.
Giving and receiving affection from the person that you love is a wonderful thing. With holding affection and love in hopes that they will change their behaviour is unhealthy, controlling behaviour. If you are able to carve out your own life, do your own thing while he comes and goes as he pleases then that is up to you. We all have different levels of what we want and require in a relationship and things change as time goes by. For me, I know that I could not ever sit and have a drink with my qualifier (AD). It is her poison, and I cannot bear to watch it or contribute to it in any way.
-- Edited by serenity47 on Thursday 22nd of September 2016 10:07:10 AM
Thanks for sharing. As far as the drinking thing, I didn't drink with him for many years once he started showing signs of his illness. Before he was sick, yes we drank together and socially. We had alot of friends and we were always doing things. Not everything we did involved drinking but some things did.
Once he got sick I stopped drinking. It was only recently that I will here and there. Then I feel ashamed like I did something wrong but at the time it felt ok. Maybe my HP is trying to tell me something. I am not really as concerned about that as I am overall enabling him.
In my f2f Alanon meeting, a person that I was considering for a sponsor told me to ignore my husband when he was drinking. Fine but that would be pretty much every day, all day long.
I did that to my brother many years ago. My brother passed away at age 23 thinking I hated him. It was a terrible mistake on my part and one I live with every day. Had I known what was going to happen,I would have embraced my brother and smothered him with love until his final breath. I just can never do that to another person I love.
To me, detaching with love could include ignoring the person, but not always. it's so much more complicated, but maybe sponsor is trying to give you something easy to start with.
To me, it's two things, mentioned above as well. 1. Not changing our lives to fit around theirs. My AW is a binger, and has relapsed, but doesn't drink much at this point, but when she does I can get so stressed, I just want to sit at home and make sure she doesn't hurt herself or some other inanimate object. But I also have a life, and have to get certain things done. last two times she binged I had to take son and help out at high school marching band events. I had to leave and do my thing, so I would take her keys with me to keep her and others safe as possible and try to make sure some things were battened down, and then just go.
2. letting them feel the consequences of their own actions. My wife didn't hit her bottom until she had her 2nd DUI, went to jail for a few days without bond, and realized she would probably lose custody of our son if she kept up. So she fixed it. But until that happened, there wasn't a dang thing I could do to stop her. In fact, on both DUIs, I had just read about detaching the days before and resolved that I would and then boom there came the consequences.
Kenny
I think, if you view your program as always based on what is best for you, and never trying to guess what might "inspire" behavior in someone else, you can't go wrong. Do you want to be affectionate? Is it best for you? Then go for it. What impact that may or may not have on him is irrelevant. If you feel angry or hurt and don't want to be affectionate, then once again, do what is best for you. I think the idea of "enabling" is secondary to what is really important, and that is acting in your own best interest. I don't think we help anyone when we are about trying to manipulate someone into behaving a certain way. My understanding is that we come to al-anon to learn to take the action that is best for ourselves and let go of the idea that what we do might cause xyz to happen for someone else. Being ourselves and acting upon our own wants and needs is not only good for us, it helps the other person to learn that they are dealing with another person complete with wants, needs and their own agenda, not someone who is always walking on eggshells and trying to "get it right" for them. (which to me is enabling).
-- Edited by MissM on Thursday 22nd of September 2016 10:56:58 AM
We are to love everyone. The way we show love is through respect of self, others, HP. Nobody should ever tell you to not be you. After all, recovery is about becoming our best version of ourselves. There is never any shame to be had by being loving and lovely towards another, especially one you care for deeply. Choose you, do you and trust the process. More will always be revealed.
(((Hugs)))
Thank you Kenny and MissM. I am trying to make it about myself without being selfish. Some days I just need to feel loved. I need to learn much much more about getting my needs met.
Unfortunately, right now I live a very lonely life so I also may be settling. I'm not sure. But like I originally said I just don't want to enable.
Someone, not on here, suggested that I was enabling him by trying to live normally. I am not in deniaL. I know he is an alcoholic and a very extreme one at that.
I am glad to have all the opinions and suggestions offered here. Like they say, I'll take what I need! You guys are all wonderful people! Peace and love to all of you.
So very beautifully said Iamhere! Thank you more than words can say!
You are worth it - keep working it girl!!