Hi,
I'm new to this group, but probably have needed it for years now.
I have been with my partner for six years. He is a binge drinker.
While he doesn't drink in the week, come weekend he drinks to complete excess. Angry, verbally abusive, pisses himself, vomits and blacks outs - every single weekend. He probably drinks 15 beers plus, and then shots and then spirits too.
I'm sitting here writing this at a complete loss, with no one to turn to. No one can understand what he's like when he has been drinking, the messes I have to clean up, the abuse I have to listen to, the anger or guilt I feel, but mostly no one understands the emotional and physical toll it takes on me every single weekend. I am beginning to feel as if I am losing myself in all of this, and I'm starting to think: should I simply walk away?
We are planning for a future together, or were until this weekend I told him I wouldn't make any more plans until things changed. We are both in our mid 20s and ready to get settled, but I would never bring children into this scenario.
The biggest toll for me is him needing me to listen to him, his feelings, hear his apologies and promises every weekend. If I don't, I'm labelled cold or selfish. I am a very empathetic and understanding person, so for me to be pushed so far where I just simply cannot listen anymore - I feel as if I am becoming this person with walls, secrets and just so much anger.
Tonight he will promise me many things and I will forgive him (but not forget) and he will do it again next weekend.
he is in a culture of binge drinking surrounded by friends who do the same thing and who haven't a care or thought to his health or the seriousness of the matter. He simply cannot stop himself drinking to excess; it's not even a physical choice anymore it's a necessity. I watch him simply unable to slow down, to not have another drink, to walk away before the pub closes and I Know in that moment I will end up living a life with an alcoholic.
Is it time to be selfish and simply walk away? I love him so very much, but maybe I need to love me more.
Im sorry for the long post, thank you for any help or experiences you can give me. I am at my wits end.
Jen.
2HP said
Sep 17, 2016
Hi Jen, you get to decide when you've had enough, sweetie. I suggest that you do the next most nurturing thing for YOU.
I so relate to the apologies and promises, I wanted to believe them very badly... and so I did. I listened to his words rather than his actions. (ACTIONS SPEAK LOUDER THAN WORDS) I wanted to believe what I wanted to believe, and so the merry go round continued, round and around and around we went... him doing his thing, and me doing mine... both of us in denial for more than 20 years.
I relate to the guilt trips too but you can fire that travel agent, sweetie because it's not love he's after, its manipulation, an alcoholic needs enablers so he says what he has to say to keep them in place.
Please find real face to face Alanon meetings in your area and grab onto someone's hand there for strength. Living with an alcoholic is too much for most of us. Keep coming back here and applying the Al-Anon ideas, because one day at a time, and you will know exactly what to do to take care of yourself (((hugs)))
p.s. we have a program slogan which you may find helpful regarding your future... "When in doubt, don't."
Detached said
Sep 17, 2016
"I relate to the guilt trips too but you can fire that travel agent, sweetie because it's not love he's after, its manipulation, an alcoholic needs enablers so he says what he has to say to keep them in place."
That's a fabulous share! Thank you for that today!
2HP said
Sep 17, 2016
Jen, I came back to say that it is NOT SELFISH to take care of yourself. Whoever told you that, is a liar.
I believed lies for so long that I stopped knowing what the truth was anymore. I needed the Al-Anon fellowship.
Jt0506 said
Sep 17, 2016
Hi 2HP.
Thank you, I plan to go to a nearby one on Wednesday. I haven't and don't plan to tell my other half right now.
It's both horrible and relieving to admit I am an enabler and he is a manipulator. I hate to see him in that light, and the hardest part is knowing while he does love me, it is not love that he is asking for in those moments. To hear that is so incredibly helpful right now and thank you.
I think the hardest part of binge drinking is in the week, he is the man I fell in love with. How do you walk away from that?
Thank you for your kind words, I really appreciate them right now. And I will go to that meeting on Wednesday, as a first step in understanding what the right choice for me is.
MidnightOwl said
Sep 17, 2016
Jen - you aren't alone, though I can relate to the feeling of isolation for sure. If you can, consider attending a local al anon meeting to be around people who just get it. It can be hard with binge drinkers because when they aren't drinking, they can be great. My friends and family just love my AH, he's a charming and intelligent dude when he isn't hammered. He really only ever gets drunk when it's the two of us, so sometimes I wonder if anyone would even believe me.
Then I found this forum and it has been really healing and wonderful to talk to people. I'm also going to start attending real life meetings this week because I realize I can't keep doing this alone.
Ultimately only you can make the call to stay or leave, but try to take the absolute best care of yourself in the mean time. Focus of your healing, this is a traumatic experience but we can get better regardless of our partners addictions or decisions.
2HP said
Sep 17, 2016
We come to realize that we love the person, and hate the disease. You are not alone, never knowing who's going to walk through the door, Dr. Jekyll or Mr. Hyde. It got so confusing until I began to see the pattern... an absolute roller coaster.... it goes up and then it goes down... high highs and low lows... and that pretty much sums up an addictive relationship... of which I participated in. I participated in my own suffering....
I allowed his disease to control my entire life. In Al-Anon, I learned that I had other choices.
Reaching out is a wonderful first step of getting help for yourself, I applaud you (((hugs)))
Jt0506 said
Sep 17, 2016
MidnightOwl, I completely echo your sentiment about friends and family.
His parents do get it to an extent, as he started getting bad when he was 19 so they would experience him like it.
His friends are one of the biggest problems though. They too binge drink and his binge drinking is social. His friends encourage, enable, egg him on. So called friends, in my opinion. They have no grasp whatsoever what it's like and I have recently come to blows with his best friend over it, for egging him on in the pub to drink more when he couldn't even stand. I'm at the point of considering to say he can't go out. I have never been that person to try and control what another does but at this point, I'm considering for my own wellbeing and for the wellbeing of our relationship to ask him not to go out for a few months and focus on us. I don't think he will though, which is very sad.
It breaks my heart too, to know that if he wants to lead a life with me he will probably have to cut these people, life long friends, out - at least until (if) they ever stop their own drinking behaviour.
It also leaves me incredibly angry to know that the one I love, who is a kind, sensitive and sweet natured man at his soul, is manipulated and used for entertainment in such a way, with such a lack of care for his health.
My own friends and family don't know what is happening. My friends questioned his drinking in the early stages of our relationship when they would see him out - they now don't see him out anymore so I find myself lieing to my own friends. They wouldn't even judge, it's just the lack of understanding.
I will definitely attend a session as even this, being able to type and speak on a forum to those who just get it, is so helpful.
hotrod said
Sep 17, 2016
Welcome Jen You are not alone and alanon face to face meetings will help. The literature is also very powerful so please look for a Beginners Package and keep coming back.
pinkchip said
Sep 17, 2016
Sounds lile he already is an alcoholic. In AA we do not distinguish between daily versus not. An alcoholic is generally a person that cannot stop once they start. Not saying this to depress you. It's just the reality.
Also...I know it's a turn of speech, but he is not your "other half." You are a whole and complete person on your own.
When is enough enough? For me, it was when it became less scary to leave than to stay and envision it lasting longer.
Iamhere said
Sep 17, 2016
I to welcome you Jen to MIP - so glad you found us and so glad that you've shared. This disease is damaging, progressive and truly never cured. It can be arrested through abstinence and some type of recovery. Everything you are feeling is how the disease affects those of us who live with or love an alcoholic. We develop warped thinking and coping ways that are often damaging to our own self-worth and self-esteem.
You certainly are in the right place and I also suggest Al-Anon meetings. It was in these meetings that I found others who 'got it'.....and did not judge, but instead listened and supported me. They then offered their own ESH (Experience, Strength and Hope) with me so that I could see there was a different way to be.
Please choose you - he's going to do what he's going to do - we ask ourselves in Al-Anon, what are we going to do?
You are not alone - there is hope and help in recovery!
jitsuka said
Sep 17, 2016
Hi Jen
Sounds like a tough situation.
Best advice is to read about binge drinking / alcoholism ... but the best advice is to get to a face-to-face meeting ...
Jt0506 said
Sep 18, 2016
Thank you all.
It's scary to hear what I already know, that this will never go away. I find myself asking if I even want that, if I should just 'get out while I can' and not have this disease hanging over my head for the rest of my life. My mother also had issues with alcohol and it hung it's head over my childhood, even when she wasn't drinking. But then I feel selfish and I also wonder if you can even ever walk away from someone with this disease, if I will ever not feel responsible for him.
Pinkchip - that is my own problem: I do not feel a whole and complete person on my own. That's not to say I feel he completes me, but I feel this disease brings up our own shortcomings and highlights them even more. I want to feel emboldened and strong enough to go, then picture a life without him and can't imagine ever leaving.
Last night he agreed to get help, when I told him it was me or the drink once and for all, but we will see.
Thank you for your kind words, it really is strengthening to have people just understand.
jojo8466 said
Sep 18, 2016
Hi Jt0506 ~ Sorry to hear of everything you are going through. I'd like to tell you about my ESH to offer you some hope.
When my ex ABF ended things between us a few weeks ago after detoxing again for at least the 4th time in the past year I was devastated. And my anxiety, worry and fears were through the roof! Just seeing his truck driving down the street brought rage and sadness and tears to the surface. We had been together 8 years and I had believed everything he had told me about us and our relationship. I was constantly checking my phone in hopes of a text or phone call from him. And when I would have a weak moment and text him to see how he was doing I would get a one word answer or no reply at all. I should of expected this since this has happened before. The majority of the time when an alcoholic goes through detox and start working their program they are told that they need to not be in a relationship for at least a year to focus on their sobriety- the exception is if they are already married. Anyway last week I made the decision to get a new cell number that ex ABF doesn't know about. I gave that cell number to all my friends and family. Within hours the anxiety had left my body. I'm not constantly checking my phone just to be disappointed that he hasn't text or called (since he doesn't have my new number there will be not texts or calls from him) and I'm no longer tempted to text him to see how he is doing because to text him would then give him access to my new number and to be honest I am really enjoying this freedom from cell phone activity from him. By doing this I have been able to focus on all the hell he and his alcoholism put me and our relationship through. I know how this is going to work - as they saying goes "Past behavior predicts future behavior" - he will work his program for awhile and then he will get lonely and try to get ahold of me and want to give us another chance and blah, blah, blah and then he will start up drinking again and treat me like s**t until he decides to dump me again so he can focus on his "sobriety".
I kept the sim card that is associated with my old phone number and maybe after a few months I will put it in my phone and see if he has tried to make contact with me but until then I am not available to him. During this break from him and the insanity of his alcoholism I am focusing on me....and I am weighing the good times with the bad times.....I'm learning what I will tolerate from a man I'm involved with and what I won't. I'm realizing the only person I really need in my life is me, my family, my true friends and my pups to be happy. The emotional roller-coaster that an alcoholic puts those they love through is insane, uncaring, selfish and cold-hearted. I refuse to tolerate that type of behavior from anyone anymore. I'm worth more than that and I deserve better than that.
Anyway that's my ESH. I hope someway it can help you.....I wish you the best in the decisions you are going to have to make for yourself to bring peace and sanity back into your life! I have faith in you that you will do what is best for you and your situation!
geems said
Sep 18, 2016
Good Morning (((jojo))). That was inspiring! Thanks for your commitment to the process of recovery and your courage to share your feelings and ESH too. It's scary but somehow comforting to know that when I read your story I could be reading my own! Hope you have a great day dear!!
jojo8466 said
Sep 18, 2016
geems wrote:
Good Morning (((jojo))). That was inspiring! Thanks for your commitment to the process of recovery and your courage to share your feelings and ESH too. It's scary but somehow comforting to know that when I read your story I could be reading my own! Hope you have a great day dear!!
Thank you Geems! I'm glad I could inspire you somehow.
It's amazing how one small action as changing your cell phone number can bring so much peace to your life. My anxiety levels were so high I was seriously worried I was going to have a heart attack. I'm only 50 years old but I know people who have had heart attacks and died way younger than that!
I feel like I'm back in control of my life and this situation (as it should be---it is my life after-all --not his) I feel like he is no longer controlling this relationship. I feel strong and certain of my decision. And like I said this all happened in a matter of hours after changing my cell number. Even my friends who know me and know what is going on have commented on what a better mood I'm in and how I don't look stressed out anymore. (I wear my emotions on my sleeve and my face tells it all)
And yes this could be your story ---- all you have to do is take the first step.....
And yes I will have a GREAT day because I put a stop to the chaos!!!!
blindsided said
Sep 18, 2016
My husband drinks all day every day. I know the toll it takes physically and mentally. I too am tired of cleaning up his messes. I want to leave him one day, then the next day I feel sorry for him. I do go to f2f Al-Anon meetings that help. I now am trying to do things for myself even though I am still with him. I go for a ride to get away. I have started volunteering. He definitely is the Dr. Jekyl and Mr. Hyde. I don't know from day to day who he is going to be. I just try to carry on. He is never going to change and I know that now and I am the one that has to change.
Jt0506 said
Sep 18, 2016
Thank you ((jojo)) for that. I sometimes wish but ultimately know I'm not able to do that, not yet. He is such a good person away from the drink, he loves me so unconditionally (for I am not without faults) that I can never just label him selfish. He is selfish in his drinking, but at the same time I know I'm potentially the only person who can help give him the motivation to stop - a belief even his parents share. How can I walk away from the man I love knowing he would only get worse? If I were to leave it would be in the hope he would clean his act up, not for a clean break and not to move on. I do believe he can change, I believe he is not yet deep enough to be unable to change.
I read that back and feel like I'm defending him but it is how I feel right now. I can't imagine life without him.
I sometimes selfishly wish he just drunk all the time (I'm so sorry if that is insensitive to someone else experiencing this with their loved one) - I just simply mean I would more easily walk away if he were his drunk self all the time and not one or two nights or every couple of weeks. The bingeing means I mostly have the loving, loyal, devoted man I could see as my husband and the father of my children. But he has to give up the drink in order to become one of those things, and he is well aware his time is now very limited in making a change.
jojo8466 said
Sep 18, 2016
Jt0506 wrote:
Thank you ((jojo)) for that. I sometimes wish but ultimately know I'm not able to do that, not yet. He is such a good person away from the drink, he loves me so unconditionally (for I am not without faults) that I can never just label him selfish. He is selfish in his drinking, but at the same time I know I'm potentially the only person who can help give him the motivation to stop - a belief even his parents share. How can I walk away from the man I love knowing he would only get worse? If I were to leave it would be in the hope he would clean his act up, not for a clean break and not to move on. I do believe he can change, I believe he is not yet deep enough to be unable to change.
I read that back and feel like I'm defending him but it is how I feel right now. I can't imagine life without him.
I sometimes selfishly wish he just drunk all the time (I'm so sorry if that is insensitive to someone else experiencing this with their loved one) - I just simply mean I would more easily walk away if he were his drunk self all the time and not one or two nights or every couple of weeks. The bingeing means I mostly have the loving, loyal, devoted man I could see as my husband and the father of my children. But he has to give up the drink in order to become one of those things, and he is well aware his time is now very limited in making a change.
(((Jt0506)))) - it is perfectly fine that you feel that way right now! I truly understand everything you wrote - I felt that way for 8 years! And it's also fine that I'm in a different frame of mind now. We each have to do what we feel is best for ourselves at this point and time. In no way was I trying to tell you to walk away. I'm just sharing where I've been, where I'm at and how much better I am feeling emotionally and mentally than I have felt in a very long time!
You will do what is right for you! And everyone on this board will be here to listen and to support you through it all!
Hang in there and keep smiling!
Jt0506 said
Sep 18, 2016
I admire your strength and courage to do that and it's amazing to hear how freeing it has been for you. I didn't mean you were suggesting to walk away, more that I wish I could have that mind frame you shared. I wish I could cut, walk away, move on, but my heart just won't let me. I think sometimes we so often give them more than they deserve, frankly. You gave eight years, I have given six, when will it be enough. I won't reach 7 years that's for sure, if this continues. This is either a turning point in our relationship or the end of it.
Thank you you so much, it's wonderful to finally feel so much support and understanding (no doubt from all sides of the world) and it gives me strength as I'm sure it does us all here.
jojo8466 said
Sep 18, 2016
Jt0506 wrote:
I admire your strength and courage to do that and it's amazing to hear how freeing it has been for you. I didn't mean you were suggesting to walk away, more that I wish I could have that mind frame you shared. I wish I could cut, walk away, move on, but my heart just won't let me. I think sometimes we so often give them more than they deserve, frankly. You gave eight years, I have given six, when will it be enough. I won't reach 7 years that's for sure, if this continues. This is either a turning point in our relationship or the end of it.
Thank you you so much, it's wonderful to finally feel so much support and understanding (no doubt from all sides of the world) and it gives me strength as I'm sure it does us all here.
You will get there....eventually.....when you are ready. You will realize you can't change them....you can't make them quit drinking...you can't help them....they live for the next drink and that is all that matters to them. One of the final discussions my ex ABF and I had he actually said to me "I have never told anyone this till now, and the only people who understand this are other alcoholics, but when I want to drink there is nothing you, my family, my kids, my sponsors or anyone can say or do to make me stop- all that matters to me is the alcohol and getting it". That was an eye opening moment for me. At least he was finally honest! LOL. It was too little too late but hey it is what it is! LOL
pinkchip said
Sep 18, 2016
The only person to motivate him to stop will be him. I promise. I am sorry his parents are telling you things that run counter to the nature of alcoholism and recovery. He has to get worse before better. Currently, it seems the suffering he experiences isn't bad enough to make him really want to stop. His sinking lower can and will happen with or without you. There are a billion rehabs, therapists, and AA meetings out there....THAT is where he will get the help he needs and likely it will come to him accepting that. People stay drunk and relapsing not because they dont have girlfriends/wives. They refuse help and think they can do it alone or fool you into thinking you are the reason they drink or don't drink. Don't try and be his savior. Go to alanon. Work on you. He has a higher power looking out for him. It isn't you.
jojo8466 said
Sep 18, 2016
pinkchip wrote:
The only person to motivate him to stop will be him. I promise. I am sorry his parents are telling you things that run counter to the nature of alcoholism and recovery. He has to get worse before better. Currently, it seems the suffering he experiences isn't bad enough to make him really want to stop. His sinking lower can and will happen with or without you. There are a billion rehabs, therapists, and AA meetings out there....THAT is where he will get the help he needs and likely it will come to him accepting that. People stay drunk and relapsing not because they dont have girlfriends/wives. They refuse help and think they can do it alone or fool you into thinking you are the reason they drink or don't drink. Don't try and be his savior. Go to alanon. Work on you. He has a higher power looking out for him. It isn't you.
Very well said pinkchip! You are a recovering alcoholic also aren't you?
likemyheart said
Sep 18, 2016
For me, Al-Anon and my own recovery lead me to a time where I KNEW it was enough and time to end it. No one can tell you when enough is enough, well, they try don't they? Eventually I reached a point where I could unemotionally assess where I was, what and where he was, my powerlessness to change what and where he was, and what I really COULD do to resolve my life.
pinkchip said
Sep 18, 2016
Yes jojo :) It makes me seem blunt here sometimes but doing battle with someone else's wretched alcoholism is such a harmful process and it is like trying to pet a porcupine.
jojo8466 said
Sep 18, 2016
pinkchip wrote:
Yes jojo :) It makes me seem blunt here sometimes but doing battle with someone else's wretched alcoholism is such a harmful process and it is like trying to pet a porcupine.
I think it is very beneficial for others to hear the truth from someone that use to be an active alcoholic in regards to how the alcoholics mind actually works. If I would of found a recovering alcoholic to talk to that would of pointed out to me what was really going on in my relationship last year at this time when my ex ABF got out of treatment it would of really opened my eyes. But instead I didn't know about this site then so I just cried and cried and cried to all my friends that had never experienced alcoholism and all they could do was console me and tell me what an a**hole he was. LOL. I'm surprised any of those friends are still even a part of my life after how stupid I continued to be taking him back time and time and time again. I'm sure they wanted to kill me! LOL. They are true friends to put up with me through all that!
Jt0506 said
Sep 18, 2016
Pinkchip, is it possible he is not yet addicted enough to have to sink lower before giving up?
I also find it very helpful to hear a former alcoholics thoughts, it's a unique perspective and given the alcoholic in question isn't exactly open with those kinds of thoughts (denial kind of gets in the way), it's interesting and eye opening to hear how he may be thinking.
pinkchip said
Sep 18, 2016
It is possible. You guys are young. My drinking was similar to your boyfriend's when I was in my mid to late twenties. I never drank round the clock and always had a job but it did progress to during the week. I was waiting for just 1 major event to occur and it did. I totaled my car drunk at 36 and that is when I got sober.
Anything is possible...especially if he decides from deep within that he is going to lose it all if he keeps this up. He also has to be able to do a seriously honest assessment of the way he drinks. Normal drinkers do not get all sloppy drunk like he does and they don't do it every weekend. I thought it was normal and that since I could go some time without, that I was fine. Nope. I always drank to get trashed and pass out and, the older I got, the worse it got. Normal people, if they ever get that wasted can probably count thw times it has happened on 1 hand and they are over it completely by mid 20s.
For him to truly get sober it will take a major awakening. He is not like most his friends. He drinks more destructively. Even if some of them are like him, that just means they are probably alcoholics too. Someone who is an alcoholic and is sober now has a better shot of opening his eyes a bit. He wont get it from you or his parents.
pinkchip said
Sep 18, 2016
Also, i was not that physically addicted even though I drank almost every day at the end (for the last several months). Prior to that it was weekends like you say for YEARS. Then Thursdays....then every other day. So yes...he probably is not physically addicted much if at all right now. BUT...he has major cravings, benders, and is messed up worse on the inside than you think since he seems unable to not do this at his first designated "free time" and this is his only idea for "cutting loose."
-- Edited by pinkchip on Sunday 18th of September 2016 03:35:18 PM
Jt0506 said
Sep 18, 2016
Pinkchip, I cannot begin to put into words how much that helped.
That is him, down to a tee. It is also everything I have ever felt, yet ended up feeling as if I am just a bit too 'strict' or 'dislike alcohol' or 'different to him'. To have you say to me it is indeed a slippery slope, that it is already too much, that it is an issue, is like being validated for the way I've felt for years. I will beat myself up because it is unfortunately a growing culture, to drink like this, one which I have never personally bought into as much as others - albeit I have of course been drunk too. But like you said, I can count that on one hand. I asked him if he could count in this past year alone, and he could not.
There is something very valuable in being able to say 'it's not just me who thinks this' especially from an individual who's been there, done that.
I admire your strength and thank you for sharing that with me, I can only hope he can wake up before it's too late. As you said, that is up to him and no one else.
I'm starting personal training tomorrow and going to a meeting Wednesday, with the plan to take back some of my life again. To feel me again. I have realised this weekend just how big a part his alcoholism has to play in my ever decreasing self esteem and motivation in life, which I guess I've known all along, but I'm finally able to admit. It's very hard to admit your partner is partly to blame for your own crappy sense of wellbeing.
tired of it said
Sep 18, 2016
Hi Jen---i could have written pretty much everything you said in your post......especially the part where you said you wish he drank all the time because then it would be easier to leave him. I am married to a binge alcoholic. He can be sober for months at a time and ghen drunk for days to weeks at a time. When he is sober, he is a wonderful, dependable, loving husband. When he is binging, he is undependable and drunk. I am fortunate that he isn't mean or abusive in any way when drunk (except when I used to get angry and try to control his drinking.) I have thought many times about leaving.....then he sobers up and everything is fine again. But when he is on a binge, I am the one who cleans up his pee and whatever other messes he makes. I have said many, many times "I will leave when the next binge starts" but I am still here. Things have gotten easier since I started practicing some of the alanon steps. But it is still hard. It is frustrating. It is confusing. There are many times I have wished I had gotten out as soon as the first binge started. As my name says, I am tired of it. But, I made a commitment and I love my AH so here I am 7 years later.
That doesn't help you at all other than for you to know that you are not alone in what you are going through. I know how you are feeling as I have gone through and continue to go through the same crap. Cherish the sober times and know that the binges will end eventually.
jojo8466 said
Sep 19, 2016
tired of it wrote:
Hi Jen---i could have written pretty much everything you said in your post......especially the part where you said you wish he drank all the time because then it would be easier to leave him. I am married to a binge alcoholic. He can be sober for months at a time and ghen drunk for days to weeks at a time. When he is sober, he is a wonderful, dependable, loving husband. When he is binging, he is undependable and drunk. I am fortunate that he isn't mean or abusive in any way when drunk (except when I used to get angry and try to control his drinking.) I have thought many times about leaving.....then he sobers up and everything is fine again. But when he is on a binge, I am the one who cleans up his pee and whatever other messes he makes. I have said many, many times "I will leave when the next binge starts" but I am still here. Things have gotten easier since I started practicing some of the alanon steps. But it is still hard. It is frustrating. It is confusing. There are many times I have wished I had gotten out as soon as the first binge started. As my name says, I am tired of it. But, I made a commitment and I love my AH so here I am 7 years later.
That doesn't help you at all other than for you to know that you are not alone in what you are going through. I know how you are feeling as I have gone through and continue to go through the same crap. Cherish the sober times and know that the binges will end eventually.
Hi Tired of It ~ I can truly understand why people that are in marriages with A's have trouble leaving the situation. Like you said you made a commitment and I do believe that the majority of people in the world work very hard to honor their word especially in the part of the marriage vows that states "in sickness and in health". Also when two people are in a marriage most of the time they have both worked very hard together to achieve everything they have - a home, vehicles, children, friends etc. Everything is legally tied among two people. And to make the choice to divide all that up would mean starting all over again like you were single and in your 20's - having to get apartments, not being able to buy nice things for yourself, living week to week and paycheck to paycheck, having the friends that you had together take sides. That does not sound appealing at all! As a matter of fact it sounds very scary and stressful! And then there is still the love that one feels towards the other person. It's rare that divorce is a mutual decision.
When I read the posts on here from spouses of A's I realize how "lucky" I was to not have any legal or financial ties to my ex ABF. I was stressed out enough just dealing with his alcoholism and I didn't even live with him. To of been married to him most likely would of sent me over the edge. I don't have to leave my house to get away from him and find some peace. I can be in my home and be away from him. My home can be my serene, peaceful place.
I just want you to know that I feel for you and everyone else on this board that is married and has to live with the effects of alcoholism day in and day out. I admire your strength for being able to tolerate it and get through another day of honoring your commitment.
el-cee said
Sep 19, 2016
Thanks for sharing, you have gotten some great feedback. Most of us can relate to all you say here. I lived this way too and now I dont so there is hope. Enough is enough when you decide it is and when you do things will change. I had enough and I went to alanon and I dont ever want to live that way again, my life is too precious, too short to waste this way.
I learned how to get free from the mental prison I seemed to be in. I was addicted and obsessed by the drinkers in my life and I had given over all my power, they controlled my feelings, my time, my energy, my mood. I gave them that control and I learned it suited me too in a way.
I detached with love, stopped cleaning up any mess so that the full extent of their drinking was there for them to see and to feel the proper consequences of it. I stopped listening to the boohoo stories that we all have, just by saying nicely that I am sorry you feel that way but I will talk to you when you feel better, and left the room. I done it enough that the message got through, because to listen to the constant self pity validates it for the person and keeps it alive. I realised by listening, by cleaning up, offering sympathy I was a crucial part in keeping this disease alive in the people I loved.
I learned to set boundaries through learning what acceptable and unacceptable behaviour was because to accept bad behaviour and just brush it aside is enabling and prolonging it all so I had to man up and deal with that, it wasnt easy but I began to remove myself from the room if any verbal abuse began, I stated clearly I wouldnt be abused and I left. Easy. I stopped giving money or a safe place to land because I realised I was helping in the self destruction and it was destroying me too. I learned all this at alanon face to face meetings.
tired of it said
Sep 19, 2016
jojo8466 wrote:
tired of it wrote:
Hi Jen---i could have written pretty much everything you said in your post......especially the part where you said you wish he drank all the time because then it would be easier to leave him. I am married to a binge alcoholic. He can be sober for months at a time and ghen drunk for days to weeks at a time. When he is sober, he is a wonderful, dependable, loving husband. When he is binging, he is undependable and drunk. I am fortunate that he isn't mean or abusive in any way when drunk (except when I used to get angry and try to control his drinking.) I have thought many times about leaving.....then he sobers up and everything is fine again. But when he is on a binge, I am the one who cleans up his pee and whatever other messes he makes. I have said many, many times "I will leave when the next binge starts" but I am still here. Things have gotten easier since I started practicing some of the alanon steps. But it is still hard. It is frustrating. It is confusing. There are many times I have wished I had gotten out as soon as the first binge started. As my name says, I am tired of it. But, I made a commitment and I love my AH so here I am 7 years later.
That doesn't help you at all other than for you to know that you are not alone in what you are going through. I know how you are feeling as I have gone through and continue to go through the same crap. Cherish the sober times and know that the binges will end eventually.
Hi Tired of It ~ I can truly understand why people that are in marriages with A's have trouble leaving the situation. Like you said you made a commitment and I do believe that the majority of people in the world work very hard to honor their word especially in the part of the marriage vows that states "in sickness and in health". Also when two people are in a marriage most of the time they have both worked very hard together to achieve everything they have - a home, vehicles, children, friends etc. Everything is legally tied among two people. And to make the choice to divide all that up would mean starting all over again like you were single and in your 20's - having to get apartments, not being able to buy nice things for yourself, living week to week and paycheck to paycheck, having the friends that you had together take sides. That does not sound appealing at all! As a matter of fact it sounds very scary and stressful! And then there is still the love that one feels towards the other person. It's rare that divorce is a mutual decision.
When I read the posts on here from spouses of A's I realize how "lucky" I was to not have any legal or financial ties to my ex ABF. I was stressed out enough just dealing with his alcoholism and I didn't even live with him. To of been married to him most likely would of sent me over the edge. I don't have to leave my house to get away from him and find some peace. I can be in my home and be away from him. My home can be my serene, peaceful place.
I just want you to know that I feel for you and everyone else on this board that is married and has to live with the effects of alcoholism day in and day out. I admire your strength for being able to tolerate it and get through another day of honoring your commitment.
Thanks Jojo!
Jt0506 said
Sep 19, 2016
Tired of it, thank you so much for sharing. You're right in that it does help knowing you're not alone. I'm glad alanon is helping you and if ever you need to talk, to share, I'd happily be there.
Gladitsover said
Sep 19, 2016
I'm really sorry for what you're going through. My heart goes out to you. Remember, whatever you decide to do, it should be what's BEST for you. What do you deserve? What would you want for someone you love? Love yourself first, and put yourself first!
Jt0506 said
Sep 20, 2016
Tired of it, I've been thinking about your post today.
I was thinking about your saying we say we're leaving and yet we are still here. That they're a great partner most of the time and horrific and drunk the rest of the time. Every time I say I'm leaving and don't, my self esteem goes down. I start to feel as if I will never leave and I just accept this love. Something changed this time; when I said I would leave I meant it. Really meant it. And for once he actually heard.
An ultimatum is only really an ultimatum when we mean it. I don't think it works if you can't imagine leaving, only hoping it shocks them into changing.
Sorry if that makes no sense, just out loud thoughts really.
I wish it were easier not being married to leave but it's not. Besides the legalities, like a house, living together, having a dog and shared savings / furniture, married or not it's too hard, too painful, to really go through.
tired of it said
Sep 20, 2016
Jen-- I don't think I ever game my AH an ultimatum. I have said to myself that I would leave a bunch of times but never to him. I have gone to a hotel for a night a couple times but that is it. I think I haven't given him an ultimatum because I know that it wouldn't matter. He may want to never drink again and may say he never will, but we all know that you can't say never when it comes to alcoholism. My AH has stopped promising to quit forever because he knows he can't promise that. He can try but really that is all. Honestly, I prefer him to promise because I think it makes him try harder. I don't know. I honestly don't know if I would be better off on my own or not. That is a decision I can only make and a decision only you can make.
pinkchip said
Sep 20, 2016
It's not too hard when the time is right and if that is what you really need to do for you. I have broken up from live in relationships over 4 years 3 times in my life. Split stuff, had to let my ex have the 1 cat....It beat staying together. Some things I did learn FINALLY from all those crappy relationships and harsh break ups is 1. Don't settle. 2. There is always another relationship out there and 3. I will persevere and I can start over or take my life in a new direction whenever I want. Ultimatums from you and promises from them mean little if broken over and over. Boundaries and action matter for both you and the A. Your literally not tolerating intolerable behavior matters. Their literally going to treatment, AA...that matters. The rest is typically BS.
-- Edited by pinkchip on Wednesday 21st of September 2016 06:46:03 AM
lgnutah said
Sep 20, 2016
When is enough, enough?
I think this is the million dollar question we have all asked ourselves.
Is it enough to create boundaries to make the hell our As bring into our lives a little less hellish?
Or do we love ourselves enough to say that living with the constant drama, chaos, turmoil that an A surrounds himself with too greatly impacts my serenity (despite my best AlAnon efforts )
I so relate to the apologies and promises, I wanted to believe them very badly... and so I did. I listened to his words rather than his actions. (ACTIONS SPEAK LOUDER THAN WORDS) I wanted to believe what I wanted to believe, and so the merry go round continued, round and around and around we went... him doing his thing, and me doing mine... both of us in denial for more than 20 years.
I relate to the guilt trips too but you can fire that travel agent, sweetie because it's not love he's after, its manipulation, an alcoholic needs enablers so he says what he has to say to keep them in place.
Please find real face to face Alanon meetings in your area and grab onto someone's hand there for strength. Living with an alcoholic is too much for most of us. Keep coming back here and applying the Al-Anon ideas, because one day at a time, and you will know exactly what to do to take care of yourself (((hugs)))
p.s. we have a program slogan which you may find helpful regarding your future... "When in doubt, don't."
I believed lies for so long that I stopped knowing what the truth was anymore. I needed the Al-Anon fellowship.
Then I found this forum and it has been really healing and wonderful to talk to people. I'm also going to start attending real life meetings this week because I realize I can't keep doing this alone.
Ultimately only you can make the call to stay or leave, but try to take the absolute best care of yourself in the mean time. Focus of your healing, this is a traumatic experience but we can get better regardless of our partners addictions or decisions.
I allowed his disease to control my entire life. In Al-Anon, I learned that I had other choices.
Reaching out is a wonderful first step of getting help for yourself, I applaud you (((hugs)))
Welcome Jen You are not alone and alanon face to face meetings will help. The literature is also very powerful so please look for a Beginners Package and keep coming back.
Also...I know it's a turn of speech, but he is not your "other half." You are a whole and complete person on your own.
When is enough enough? For me, it was when it became less scary to leave than to stay and envision it lasting longer.
You certainly are in the right place and I also suggest Al-Anon meetings. It was in these meetings that I found others who 'got it'.....and did not judge, but instead listened and supported me. They then offered their own ESH (Experience, Strength and Hope) with me so that I could see there was a different way to be.
Please choose you - he's going to do what he's going to do - we ask ourselves in Al-Anon, what are we going to do?
You are not alone - there is hope and help in recovery!
Sounds like a tough situation.
Best advice is to read about binge drinking / alcoholism ... but the best advice is to get to a face-to-face meeting ...
It's scary to hear what I already know, that this will never go away. I find myself asking if I even want that, if I should just 'get out while I can' and not have this disease hanging over my head for the rest of my life. My mother also had issues with alcohol and it hung it's head over my childhood, even when she wasn't drinking. But then I feel selfish and I also wonder if you can even ever walk away from someone with this disease, if I will ever not feel responsible for him.
Pinkchip - that is my own problem: I do not feel a whole and complete person on my own. That's not to say I feel he completes me, but I feel this disease brings up our own shortcomings and highlights them even more. I want to feel emboldened and strong enough to go, then picture a life without him and can't imagine ever leaving.
Last night he agreed to get help, when I told him it was me or the drink once and for all, but we will see.
Thank you for your kind words, it really is strengthening to have people just understand.
When my ex ABF ended things between us a few weeks ago after detoxing again for at least the 4th time in the past year I was devastated. And my anxiety, worry and fears were through the roof! Just seeing his truck driving down the street brought rage and sadness and tears to the surface. We had been together 8 years and I had believed everything he had told me about us and our relationship. I was constantly checking my phone in hopes of a text or phone call from him. And when I would have a weak moment and text him to see how he was doing I would get a one word answer or no reply at all. I should of expected this since this has happened before. The majority of the time when an alcoholic goes through detox and start working their program they are told that they need to not be in a relationship for at least a year to focus on their sobriety- the exception is if they are already married. Anyway last week I made the decision to get a new cell number that ex ABF doesn't know about. I gave that cell number to all my friends and family. Within hours the anxiety had left my body. I'm not constantly checking my phone just to be disappointed that he hasn't text or called (since he doesn't have my new number there will be not texts or calls from him) and I'm no longer tempted to text him to see how he is doing because to text him would then give him access to my new number and to be honest I am really enjoying this freedom from cell phone activity from him. By doing this I have been able to focus on all the hell he and his alcoholism put me and our relationship through. I know how this is going to work - as they saying goes "Past behavior predicts future behavior" - he will work his program for awhile and then he will get lonely and try to get ahold of me and want to give us another chance and blah, blah, blah and then he will start up drinking again and treat me like s**t until he decides to dump me again so he can focus on his "sobriety".
I kept the sim card that is associated with my old phone number and maybe after a few months I will put it in my phone and see if he has tried to make contact with me but until then I am not available to him. During this break from him and the insanity of his alcoholism I am focusing on me....and I am weighing the good times with the bad times.....I'm learning what I will tolerate from a man I'm involved with and what I won't. I'm realizing the only person I really need in my life is me, my family, my true friends and my pups to be happy. The emotional roller-coaster that an alcoholic puts those they love through is insane, uncaring, selfish and cold-hearted. I refuse to tolerate that type of behavior from anyone anymore. I'm worth more than that and I deserve better than that.
Anyway that's my ESH. I hope someway it can help you.....I wish you the best in the decisions you are going to have to make for yourself to bring peace and sanity back into your life! I have faith in you that you will do what is best for you and your situation!
Thank you Geems! I'm glad I could inspire you somehow.
It's amazing how one small action as changing your cell phone number can bring so much peace to your life. My anxiety levels were so high I was seriously worried I was going to have a heart attack. I'm only 50 years old but I know people who have had heart attacks and died way younger than that!
I feel like I'm back in control of my life and this situation (as it should be---it is my life after-all --not his) I feel like he is no longer controlling this relationship. I feel strong and certain of my decision. And like I said this all happened in a matter of hours after changing my cell number. Even my friends who know me and know what is going on have commented on what a better mood I'm in and how I don't look stressed out anymore. (I wear my emotions on my sleeve and my face tells it all)
And yes this could be your story ---- all you have to do is take the first step.....
And yes I will have a GREAT day because I put a stop to the chaos!!!!
My husband drinks all day every day. I know the toll it takes physically and mentally. I too am tired of cleaning up his messes. I want to leave him one day, then the next day I feel sorry for him. I do go to f2f Al-Anon meetings that help. I now am trying to do things for myself even though I am still with him. I go for a ride to get away. I have started volunteering. He definitely is the Dr. Jekyl and Mr. Hyde. I don't know from day to day who he is going to be. I just try to carry on. He is never going to change and I know that now and I am the one that has to change.
I read that back and feel like I'm defending him but it is how I feel right now. I can't imagine life without him.
I sometimes selfishly wish he just drunk all the time (I'm so sorry if that is insensitive to someone else experiencing this with their loved one) - I just simply mean I would more easily walk away if he were his drunk self all the time and not one or two nights or every couple of weeks. The bingeing means I mostly have the loving, loyal, devoted man I could see as my husband and the father of my children. But he has to give up the drink in order to become one of those things, and he is well aware his time is now very limited in making a change.
(((Jt0506)))) - it is perfectly fine that you feel that way right now! I truly understand everything you wrote - I felt that way for 8 years! And it's also fine that I'm in a different frame of mind now. We each have to do what we feel is best for ourselves at this point and time. In no way was I trying to tell you to walk away. I'm just sharing where I've been, where I'm at and how much better I am feeling emotionally and mentally than I have felt in a very long time!
You will do what is right for you! And everyone on this board will be here to listen and to support you through it all!
Hang in there and keep smiling!
I admire your strength and courage to do that and it's amazing to hear how freeing it has been for you. I didn't mean you were suggesting to walk away, more that I wish I could have that mind frame you shared. I wish I could cut, walk away, move on, but my heart just won't let me. I think sometimes we so often give them more than they deserve, frankly. You gave eight years, I have given six, when will it be enough. I won't reach 7 years that's for sure, if this continues. This is either a turning point in our relationship or the end of it.
Thank you you so much, it's wonderful to finally feel so much support and understanding (no doubt from all sides of the world) and it gives me strength as I'm sure it does us all here.
You will get there....eventually.....when you are ready. You will realize you can't change them....you can't make them quit drinking...you can't help them....they live for the next drink and that is all that matters to them. One of the final discussions my ex ABF and I had he actually said to me "I have never told anyone this till now, and the only people who understand this are other alcoholics, but when I want to drink there is nothing you, my family, my kids, my sponsors or anyone can say or do to make me stop- all that matters to me is the alcohol and getting it". That was an eye opening moment for me. At least he was finally honest! LOL. It was too little too late but hey it is what it is! LOL
Very well said pinkchip! You are a recovering alcoholic also aren't you?
I think it is very beneficial for others to hear the truth from someone that use to be an active alcoholic in regards to how the alcoholics mind actually works. If I would of found a recovering alcoholic to talk to that would of pointed out to me what was really going on in my relationship last year at this time when my ex ABF got out of treatment it would of really opened my eyes. But instead I didn't know about this site then so I just cried and cried and cried to all my friends that had never experienced alcoholism and all they could do was console me and tell me what an a**hole he was. LOL. I'm surprised any of those friends are still even a part of my life after how stupid I continued to be taking him back time and time and time again. I'm sure they wanted to kill me! LOL. They are true friends to put up with me through all that!
I also find it very helpful to hear a former alcoholics thoughts, it's a unique perspective and given the alcoholic in question isn't exactly open with those kinds of thoughts (denial kind of gets in the way), it's interesting and eye opening to hear how he may be thinking.
Anything is possible...especially if he decides from deep within that he is going to lose it all if he keeps this up. He also has to be able to do a seriously honest assessment of the way he drinks. Normal drinkers do not get all sloppy drunk like he does and they don't do it every weekend. I thought it was normal and that since I could go some time without, that I was fine. Nope. I always drank to get trashed and pass out and, the older I got, the worse it got. Normal people, if they ever get that wasted can probably count thw times it has happened on 1 hand and they are over it completely by mid 20s.
For him to truly get sober it will take a major awakening. He is not like most his friends. He drinks more destructively. Even if some of them are like him, that just means they are probably alcoholics too. Someone who is an alcoholic and is sober now has a better shot of opening his eyes a bit. He wont get it from you or his parents.
Also, i was not that physically addicted even though I drank almost every day at the end (for the last several months). Prior to that it was weekends like you say for YEARS. Then Thursdays....then every other day. So yes...he probably is not physically addicted much if at all right now. BUT...he has major cravings, benders, and is messed up worse on the inside than you think since he seems unable to not do this at his first designated "free time" and this is his only idea for "cutting loose."
-- Edited by pinkchip on Sunday 18th of September 2016 03:35:18 PM
That is him, down to a tee. It is also everything I have ever felt, yet ended up feeling as if I am just a bit too 'strict' or 'dislike alcohol' or 'different to him'. To have you say to me it is indeed a slippery slope, that it is already too much, that it is an issue, is like being validated for the way I've felt for years. I will beat myself up because it is unfortunately a growing culture, to drink like this, one which I have never personally bought into as much as others - albeit I have of course been drunk too. But like you said, I can count that on one hand. I asked him if he could count in this past year alone, and he could not.
There is something very valuable in being able to say 'it's not just me who thinks this' especially from an individual who's been there, done that.
I admire your strength and thank you for sharing that with me, I can only hope he can wake up before it's too late. As you said, that is up to him and no one else.
I'm starting personal training tomorrow and going to a meeting Wednesday, with the plan to take back some of my life again. To feel me again. I have realised this weekend just how big a part his alcoholism has to play in my ever decreasing self esteem and motivation in life, which I guess I've known all along, but I'm finally able to admit. It's very hard to admit your partner is partly to blame for your own crappy sense of wellbeing.
Hi Jen---i could have written pretty much everything you said in your post......especially the part where you said you wish he drank all the time because then it would be easier to leave him. I am married to a binge alcoholic. He can be sober for months at a time and ghen drunk for days to weeks at a time. When he is sober, he is a wonderful, dependable, loving husband. When he is binging, he is undependable and drunk. I am fortunate that he isn't mean or abusive in any way when drunk (except when I used to get angry and try to control his drinking.) I have thought many times about leaving.....then he sobers up and everything is fine again. But when he is on a binge, I am the one who cleans up his pee and whatever other messes he makes. I have said many, many times "I will leave when the next binge starts" but I am still here. Things have gotten easier since I started practicing some of the alanon steps. But it is still hard. It is frustrating. It is confusing. There are many times I have wished I had gotten out as soon as the first binge started. As my name says, I am tired of it. But, I made a commitment and I love my AH so here I am 7 years later.
That doesn't help you at all other than for you to know that you are not alone in what you are going through. I know how you are feeling as I have gone through and continue to go through the same crap. Cherish the sober times and know that the binges will end eventually.
Hi Tired of It ~ I can truly understand why people that are in marriages with A's have trouble leaving the situation. Like you said you made a commitment and I do believe that the majority of people in the world work very hard to honor their word especially in the part of the marriage vows that states "in sickness and in health". Also when two people are in a marriage most of the time they have both worked very hard together to achieve everything they have - a home, vehicles, children, friends etc. Everything is legally tied among two people. And to make the choice to divide all that up would mean starting all over again like you were single and in your 20's - having to get apartments, not being able to buy nice things for yourself, living week to week and paycheck to paycheck, having the friends that you had together take sides. That does not sound appealing at all! As a matter of fact it sounds very scary and stressful! And then there is still the love that one feels towards the other person. It's rare that divorce is a mutual decision.
When I read the posts on here from spouses of A's I realize how "lucky" I was to not have any legal or financial ties to my ex ABF. I was stressed out enough just dealing with his alcoholism and I didn't even live with him. To of been married to him most likely would of sent me over the edge. I don't have to leave my house to get away from him and find some peace. I can be in my home and be away from him. My home can be my serene, peaceful place.
I just want you to know that I feel for you and everyone else on this board that is married and has to live with the effects of alcoholism day in and day out. I admire your strength for being able to tolerate it and get through another day of honoring your commitment.
Thanks for sharing, you have gotten some great feedback. Most of us can relate to all you say here. I lived this way too and now I dont so there is hope. Enough is enough when you decide it is and when you do things will change. I had enough and I went to alanon and I dont ever want to live that way again, my life is too precious, too short to waste this way.
I learned how to get free from the mental prison I seemed to be in. I was addicted and obsessed by the drinkers in my life and I had given over all my power, they controlled my feelings, my time, my energy, my mood. I gave them that control and I learned it suited me too in a way.
I detached with love, stopped cleaning up any mess so that the full extent of their drinking was there for them to see and to feel the proper consequences of it. I stopped listening to the boohoo stories that we all have, just by saying nicely that I am sorry you feel that way but I will talk to you when you feel better, and left the room. I done it enough that the message got through, because to listen to the constant self pity validates it for the person and keeps it alive. I realised by listening, by cleaning up, offering sympathy I was a crucial part in keeping this disease alive in the people I loved.
I learned to set boundaries through learning what acceptable and unacceptable behaviour was because to accept bad behaviour and just brush it aside is enabling and prolonging it all so I had to man up and deal with that, it wasnt easy but I began to remove myself from the room if any verbal abuse began, I stated clearly I wouldnt be abused and I left. Easy. I stopped giving money or a safe place to land because I realised I was helping in the self destruction and it was destroying me too. I learned all this at alanon face to face meetings.
Thanks Jojo!
I'm really sorry for what you're going through. My heart goes out to you. Remember, whatever you decide to do, it should be what's BEST for you. What do you deserve? What would you want for someone you love? Love yourself first, and put yourself first!
Jen-- I don't think I ever game my AH an ultimatum. I have said to myself that I would leave a bunch of times but never to him. I have gone to a hotel for a night a couple times but that is it. I think I haven't given him an ultimatum because I know that it wouldn't matter. He may want to never drink again and may say he never will, but we all know that you can't say never when it comes to alcoholism. My AH has stopped promising to quit forever because he knows he can't promise that. He can try but really that is all. Honestly, I prefer him to promise because I think it makes him try harder. I don't know. I honestly don't know if I would be better off on my own or not. That is a decision I can only make and a decision only you can make.
It's not too hard when the time is right and if that is what you really need to do for you. I have broken up from live in relationships over 4 years 3 times in my life. Split stuff, had to let my ex have the 1 cat....It beat staying together. Some things I did learn FINALLY from all those crappy relationships and harsh break ups is 1. Don't settle. 2. There is always another relationship out there and 3. I will persevere and I can start over or take my life in a new direction whenever I want. Ultimatums from you and promises from them mean little if broken over and over. Boundaries and action matter for both you and the A. Your literally not tolerating intolerable behavior matters. Their literally going to treatment, AA...that matters. The rest is typically BS.
-- Edited by pinkchip on Wednesday 21st of September 2016 06:46:03 AM