The person I am today has huge issues with the person I used to be. I behaved in deplorable ways towards others back in the day. The fearless moral inventory may be on the today me and that me won't do it again... but the yesterday me has some apologizing to do and maybe even prison time? My own manipulation skills were so finely honed that I was able to talk myself into every job I had. The only formal education I have is a year of cooking training at a small university on Vancouver Island. That I didn't get until I was 50. The job as childcare worker and dental office manager and instructor at a local college came from God? I don't know...I just know that as I get healthier and my memory gets better; I'm overwhelmed by the number of people I have to make amends to. All those "sick" kids I worked with over the years...we're all healthier than me...they were in treatment..and I was part of that. See what I mean? Overwhelming....where do I start?
hotrod said
Sep 16, 2016
(((Geems)) Please remember that we are working Step 4 and 5 in order to set ourselves free from negative guilt, shame and low self esteem. It is not important to evaluate or judge our actions . It is a process so by simply looking within we can set ourselves free.
I know that my "denial" permitted me to act in very dishonest ways in the past . Thanks to program I could look at it, own it and develop new constructive tools to live by. Remember that alanon is a self acceptance program and that we are all imperfectly human
I found that by making a list as follows helped:
I listed the situation
My part
What was I feeling
Who it affected
Then I found the person to share with One step one moment at a time works
andromeda said
Sep 16, 2016
Be gentle on yourself. It may be overwhelming but this program stresses 'one day at a time'. And, sometimes we take on more guilt than is necessary. It's always best to ask the questions that Betty referred to. Remember there are always 2 people involved in each interaction and it's not always you; it might be the dynamic between both people, as well.
Iamhere said
Sep 16, 2016
I agree - be gentle with yourself. If/when you have worked steps 1-3 thoroughly with a sponsor, the 4th step is not as frightening. It's an ability to let go and let God - own our past to grow/learn from - not to attack ourselves. In every Al-Anon literature I've seen/read, it's suggested we put ourselves at the top of the list for harm, amends, etc.
The slogan, when in doubt, don't pops into my mind. It sounds as if you are working hard on recovery but the fear and worry over the amends may be a message from your HP that you're not yet ready. I also agree big time with andromeda - it takes two to make things work/not work...
Recovery is about healing ourselves. At any point in my journey where I feel uncertain, I use the exact same tools - PAUSE, reflect, pray, ask for help. Those who came before me always have the message I need to hear to continue the journey at the right pace.
(((Hugs)))
2HP said
Sep 16, 2016
They told me that if I was uncomfortable, recovery work was indeed "working" (((hugs)))
(But be careful not to fall into shame. self-hatred is not spiritual, it's going backwards.)
I remember this feeling twice in my recovery, the first time came after my very first step 5. For days, I did not feel better, I felt worse. When my sponsor and I talked about it, she asked me if I thought God would forgive me. I quickly said, "of course." Then she said that if God forgives me... but I refuse to forgive myself... am I not putting myself in the God position and saying that I know better than God...??
The second time it happened, (years later) I wondered if I was going backwards, it felt just awful, so many memories kept pouring in. Today, I believe the remorse is necessary and part of the process. It gave me the realization I was an equal part of the imperfect human race, the whole process was a "welcome to the human race" kind of thing.
With willingness to work at the steps, we give God permission to just start moulding and chiseling away. I had one sponsor who colorfully described the process similar to that of laying wide open on an operating table... God's not finished operating on me, removing this and that, lol.... it felt true enough. We humbly ask God to remove this stuff, but it can be painful, like recovering from surgery.
I also believe it was remorse that gave me an ability to forgive naturally... I didn't have to attempt forgiveness, it just kind of happened and before I knew it I was praying for my old enemies. I realize I had always tried my best and now I assume the same is true for everyone, and that character defects are really just the way everyone believes they must take care of themselves.
Easy does it. Remember, we'd never see the light without the shadow (((peace)))
-- Edited by 2HP on Friday 16th of September 2016 12:17:22 PM
geems said
Sep 20, 2016
Thanks for the feedback. I've been struggling with anxiety and wanting to whine about other people so have been spending time with HP. I've finally succumbed to trying the medication the shrink gave me for anxiety while I was coming off an anti-depressant of two years. I feel great. This is probably not good because I can;t get here on my own no matter how many meeting, no matter how much time I spend in meditation, exercise, fasting, all the things that promote my mental health, all it took was two of these xanax to change my perspective and ease my emotional pain. I feel serene and peaceful. Do we need to be calling rehab for me? I've wondered before if I'm more critical than just alanon material? Thanks for being here.
jojo8466 said
Sep 20, 2016
geems wrote:
Thanks for the feedback. I've been struggling with anxiety and wanting to whine about other people so have been spending time with HP. I've finally succumbed to trying the medication the shrink gave me for anxiety while I was coming off an anti-depressant of two years. I feel great. This is probably not good because I can;t get here on my own no matter how many meeting, no matter how much time I spend in meditation, exercise, fasting, all the things that promote my mental health, all it took was two of these xanax to change my perspective and ease my emotional pain. I feel serene and peaceful. Do we need to be calling rehab for me? I've wondered before if I'm more critical than just alanon material? Thanks for being here.
I think that if God aka HP didn't want us to use prescription drugs to help us when we needed them He wouldn't of made the chemist that created them. Kind of like epidurals - if we supposed to go through all that pain God wouldn't of made anesthesiologist to administer them to us! LOL. Maybe this is just my warped way of making things in my life seem acceptable but I don't care - it helps me get through my days and enjoy life - and sometimes things are just very, very tough and we all need a little help! Don't question yourself or doubt yourself for asking for prescription assistance! I'm proud of you for reaching out for help when other things weren't quite working for you yet!
Jerry F said
Sep 20, 2016
Learning the program was a growing up process to me and getting guidance and ESH from the old timers and my sponsors kept me in the class room on the right direction. I ought not of attempted this on my own because I was using the same tools and processes that brought me here. I made myself worse than the disease and that became another sign that my ego was running riot. I wasn't only better than everyone else I was also worse than them. Damned if I did and damned if I didn't and still damned. One of the things that helps me often is that our program isn't about perfection it is about progress which I don't do alone. I need to threat myself with the same tolerance and love I learn to treat others with. Keep coming back cause this works (in time) when we work it. Thanks for the trust in the program Geems. ((((hugs))))
el-cee said
Sep 21, 2016
I don't think anyone comes out smelling of roses in alcoholism. We get symptoms like manipulation dishonesty and much more. The good thing is you see it no more denial but don't you think your being a bit hard on you. You did what you had to do to survive difficult circumstances. Like survival ta tics gone a bit crazy. You did the best you could with what you had now you have more awareness etc your behaviour will reflect it. I think your amends will set you free but extreme amends will only add to your amends list. Easy does it. Talk to a sponsor make the list doable x
MissM said
Sep 21, 2016
I felt overwhelmed at the thought of examining my own past behaviour too; I'd spent so long trying to rationalise, re-write and hide history after all so it had to be pretty bad right?
A wise person suggested to me that my defects were in fact assets that I was misusing. That turned my thinking upside down in the best kind of way and taking my own inventory became a liberating, rather than paralyzing experience.
hotrod said
Sep 21, 2016
Great experience and share Ms.M Love your new photo
The person I am today has huge issues with the person I used to be. I behaved in deplorable ways towards others back in the day. The fearless moral inventory may be on the today me and that me won't do it again... but the yesterday me has some apologizing to do and maybe even prison time? My own manipulation skills were so finely honed that I was able to talk myself into every job I had. The only formal education I have is a year of cooking training at a small university on Vancouver Island. That I didn't get until I was 50. The job as childcare worker and dental office manager and instructor at a local college came from God? I don't know...I just know that as I get healthier and my memory gets better; I'm overwhelmed by the number of people I have to make amends to. All those "sick" kids I worked with over the years...we're all healthier than me...they were in treatment..and I was part of that. See what I mean? Overwhelming....where do I start?
(((Geems)) Please remember that we are working Step 4 and 5 in order to set ourselves free from negative guilt, shame and low self esteem. It is not important to evaluate or judge our actions . It is a process so by simply looking within we can set ourselves free.
I know that my "denial" permitted me to act in very dishonest ways in the past . Thanks to program I could look at it, own it and develop new constructive tools to live by. Remember that alanon is a self acceptance program and that we are all imperfectly human
I found that by making a list as follows helped:
I listed the situation
My part
What was I feeling
Who it affected
Then I found the person to share with One step one moment at a time works
The slogan, when in doubt, don't pops into my mind. It sounds as if you are working hard on recovery but the fear and worry over the amends may be a message from your HP that you're not yet ready. I also agree big time with andromeda - it takes two to make things work/not work...
Recovery is about healing ourselves. At any point in my journey where I feel uncertain, I use the exact same tools - PAUSE, reflect, pray, ask for help. Those who came before me always have the message I need to hear to continue the journey at the right pace.
(((Hugs)))
They told me that if I was uncomfortable, recovery work was indeed "working" (((hugs)))
(But be careful not to fall into shame. self-hatred is not spiritual, it's going backwards.)
I remember this feeling twice in my recovery, the first time came after my very first step 5. For days, I did not feel better, I felt worse. When my sponsor and I talked about it, she asked me if I thought God would forgive me. I quickly said, "of course." Then she said that if God forgives me... but I refuse to forgive myself... am I not putting myself in the God position and saying that I know better than God...??
The second time it happened, (years later) I wondered if I was going backwards, it felt just awful, so many memories kept pouring in. Today, I believe the remorse is necessary and part of the process. It gave me the realization I was an equal part of the imperfect human race, the whole process was a "welcome to the human race" kind of thing.
With willingness to work at the steps, we give God permission to just start moulding and chiseling away. I had one sponsor who colorfully described the process similar to that of laying wide open on an operating table... God's not finished operating on me, removing this and that, lol.... it felt true enough. We humbly ask God to remove this stuff, but it can be painful, like recovering from surgery.
I also believe it was remorse that gave me an ability to forgive naturally... I didn't have to attempt forgiveness, it just kind of happened and before I knew it I was praying for my old enemies. I realize I had always tried my best and now I assume the same is true for everyone, and that character defects are really just the way everyone believes they must take care of themselves.
Easy does it. Remember, we'd never see the light without the shadow (((peace)))
-- Edited by 2HP on Friday 16th of September 2016 12:17:22 PM
I think that if God aka HP didn't want us to use prescription drugs to help us when we needed them He wouldn't of made the chemist that created them. Kind of like epidurals - if we supposed to go through all that pain God wouldn't of made anesthesiologist to administer them to us! LOL. Maybe this is just my warped way of making things in my life seem acceptable but I don't care - it helps me get through my days and enjoy life - and sometimes things are just very, very tough and we all need a little help! Don't question yourself or doubt yourself for asking for prescription assistance! I'm proud of you for reaching out for help when other things weren't quite working for you yet!
Learning the program was a growing up process to me and getting guidance and ESH from the old timers and my sponsors kept me in the class room on the right direction. I ought not of attempted this on my own because I was using the same tools and processes that brought me here. I made myself worse than the disease and that became another sign that my ego was running riot. I wasn't only better than everyone else I was also worse than them. Damned if I did and damned if I didn't and still damned. One of the things that helps me often is that our program isn't about perfection it is about progress which I don't do alone. I need to threat myself with the same tolerance and love I learn to treat others with. Keep coming back cause this works (in time) when we work it. Thanks for the trust in the program Geems. ((((hugs))))
A wise person suggested to me that my defects were in fact assets that I was misusing. That turned my thinking upside down in the best kind of way and taking my own inventory became a liberating, rather than paralyzing experience.