why is AH seeming to disturb the serenity I am working so hard for myself
jocelgp said
Sep 7, 2016
I've been thru so much lately with my AH and have been working so hard just to keep focus on my self care and serenity. I am trying very hard not to mind my AH, whatever he is doing, planning, or up to; what he thinks of himself and what he plans for himself. I keep on reminding myself to Let Go and Let God, God will take care of him and of me. But my AH seems to test my patience, he makes sarcastic remarks at every opportunity he can pick on me. I feel like he is always provoking me. And he would even do this in front of my mother and when other people are present. I am trying so hard not to react but I am boiling inside and I feel like confronting him with separation. I know that this is not the proper time, but I also ask myself when would be proper, what would be proper? To my mind I feel like this is it but "something" is holding me back and I cannot see clearly what is holding me back
Calm Lady said
Sep 7, 2016
My experience was that when I first started to detach with love and step away from invitations to fight and cause chaos from my AH, he ramped his behaviours up. He was used to me reacting in a certain way. Now I wasn't, it felt odd to him. So he tried to pull me back into me behaving as I did before. I rode it out, he adjusted.
I was warned upfront that this was the usual thing that happened. So I was prepared.
Sorry you have this going on in your life.
hotrod said
Sep 7, 2016
I agree This is not unusual. Reciting the serenity prayer and validating myself(without being mean) are effective tools to use in such situations .
jocelgp said
Sep 7, 2016
Yes you're right, I've read from this board and literatures that this scenario will happen, more so because my AH is trying to stop from drinking on his own. He doesn't believe in AA and thinks he doesn't need anybody's help because he doesn't have a drinking problem.
What makes my situation harder is that we are living in my 83 yr. old widowed mother's house. I pity her and having guilty feelings that I brought this chaos in her life. I know she's affected when she would feel physically weak. Though she doesn't tell me so, I know that the stress is causing it to her. I know she can feel the burden I'm carrying. I know that some of her behavior is a reaction that alcoholism has brought in her house. I'm so sad and guilty that I brought her into this mess.
It's a good thing we didn't have children because this could have affected them too.
I have to be honest, I would pray to God to please take my husband away from us, just make my husband leave us. I have tried talking separation to my AH, calmly and otherwise but still he wouldn't go. He would just calm down and behave nicely again. With all that I've learned from Al-anon it is now less difficult for me to adjust and take life that this is going to be so, to accept and to hope for recovery for both of us. But what about my mom? I think it's not a good idea to tell my husband to leave for my mom's sake, he will just think that I'm making up excuses. I should be the one to leave then, but what about my mom, she's going to be alone, and she has been telling me that I shouldn't be the one to leave if I want to separate, it's our house. And I agree with that, it would be so dramatic if I will be the one to leave so that my husband will then leave the house. What if still he won't then I would be coming back because it's our house and then what? I'll be putting pressure on my mom to do something so I'll come back home. This is going to be more chaotic. I would have wanted for my husband to realize that it might be better for us to recover while living separately, but then again I cannot make him think that. I don't know what to do anymore...
hotrod said
Sep 7, 2016
Living with the disease is extremely difficult. I would try to draw a boundary with him and ask that, until we resolved our issues, that he not interact with her in the future.
I would also give Mom some alanon literature for support such as:" Alcoholism the Family Disease" and the Courage to Change. I have given these books to my niece, who will not go to alanon meetings but lives with an alcoholic and she reports they are helpful.
Positive thoughts on the way .
jocelgp said
Sep 7, 2016
I will find the proper time to discuss that with AH regarding boundary with my mom. I also have to think and pray for the right words. Thank you for suggesting that.
How I wish I could share some literatures with my mom but it's all in English, we have a different language here and my mom has little comprehension of English because she didn't even get thru High School. Al-anon is also very foreign to her as well as the concept of alcoholism as a disease.
hotrod said
Sep 7, 2016
((Jocelgo)) Positive thoughts and prayers on the way.
Iamhere said
Sep 7, 2016
I too am sending positive thoughts and prayers your way Jocel.....I also agree that they will ramp up poor choices and behaviors when we begin to change. In my home, my discussions were also ridiculed and discarded as quickly as I stated my thoughts. It was beyond frustrating as I would work with my sponsor to form neutral ways to share my thoughts and my needs, and it was often met with more chaos/insanity.
I actually spent some time wearing earbuds with music to just allow me to be in my own peaceful place. I also had 2 places that they did not follow me into - the bathroom and the laundry room. My detaching process was not immediately with love - more like fuming indifference which gradually got better with practice and time.
You are not alone - trial and error helped me bunches...
Mattie said
Sep 7, 2016
If you decide that you want him to leave, he doesn't have to agree with you or think it's a good decision. It doesn't matter if he thinks your mother is an excuse or whatever. He will no doubt wheedle and blame and pretend to be baffled and all kinds of shenanigans to get you to go back on your decision. Often alcoholics will stall and delay because they want their comfy life and living situation. So you may have to evict him. It may be worth consulting a lawyer as to your options. When their way of life is threatened, alcoholics pull out all the stops to get the situation the way they like it. That doesn't mean you are any obligation to put up with him being there. Hope you will take good care of yourself.
jocelgp said
Sep 7, 2016
Thank you for positive thoughts and prayers, seems like the storm has passed thru. I know it's not a sign to be complacent, I have to keep on working for progress.
Iamhere, thank you for sharing that your detaching process was not immediately with love because honestly I am questioning if it's wrong for me to not to feel love for my husband anymore. I don't feel the same for him anymore, yes the feeling is indifference. Like I don't care anymore about our marriage. What matters to me right now is my serenity, how I can be happy and peaceful. I used to dream of happiness with my husband in the picture, but now it doesn't really matter if he's there or not. I grew up in a family (FOO) with very strong values on marriage, that marriage is not based on feelings of love but of commitment. And I'm really bothered by this feeling of indifference and the option to separate. Before al-anon, when I haven't realized that alcoholism is what's causing all my troubles, I sought counselling help for our marriage. I thought I need to work on my marriage, I was doing it by myself because my husband doesn't believe in counselling either. Somewhere, alcoholism was pointed out by one counselor as a factor that should be addressed first, that's when I did a lot of research on alcoholism and came across AA and Al-anon.
Thank you also Mattie for your share, I know you've been thru separation and it helps to come to know of your ESH. I don't know what the future holds for me, if things will be better or harder and tougher, thank you for reminding me that I do have choices and options.
In all these, I pray to God to be my guide and keep us all in His loving hands.
(((Hugs)))
KT2015 said
Sep 7, 2016
Hi Jocelgp
I can relate to your post. I too found that my AH ramped up his behaviour when I started to detach. For me I felt like I didn't love him anymore because I was detaching but now that I have been through it a little longer I don't think it was the case that I didn't love him. I think that my definition of love was the problem. I had a very codependent idea of what love was. Things have settled down a lot in my household due to my involvement in Al Anon and as I continued to change my AH adjusted too. Now when he has a problem he often says "but that is my problem to deal with not yours" and he tells me he says it to remind himself of that. My AH and I have less arguments and fights, there is less pushing and pulling between us but there is still love and respect even if he is still drinking. My AH also feels he doesn't have a drinking problem (although I hear him say maybe he does from time to time).
It sounds like you have a lot of thoughts and conflicting concerns going on inside. I can relate to that feeling too. When I feel that conflicted or emotional I tend to delay making any big decision about anything until I can have some peace around it. I remind myself to let go and let god to keep the focus on myself and to keep it simple. There is usually a very simple solution to some of the most challenging questions or concerns I have.
In my home situation my mom has her own apartment and for her that is a positive space for her. I even arrange to deliver dinner to her there and she likes having that space. We have an agreement that she doesn't have to join us for meals or other things unless she wants to and she will leave and go to her space whenever she feels the need. I know my situation is different because my mother lives in our house but creating her own space for her that is completely her own and will not be disturbed has been a great comfort to her and to me.
Sending you positive thoughts and prayers.
Aerin said
Sep 7, 2016
Hi Jocelyp (did I type that right? lol I am on my phone) I too have the abf that will not go to AA. Insists that is for "big time" alcoholics. Umm ok.. whatever. I feel a lot like you. Less in love, less interested. More bored because the drinking comes back and affects any "fun" we could have. ( def no dinner n drinks like normal couples can just to chill) Im Focusing more on ME and hopefully things clear up enough to give me insight to move on at some point. I want to feel stronger first.
Jerry F said
Sep 7, 2016
J; only one of the true realizations I came to when I first got here and started to work the program was that I wasn't superman or God and was only a human being with little to no experience living with the disease. I had not yet realized that I was born and raised in it and still was powerless as my family of origin was also. Alcoholism is not a natural way of living as the alcohol alters normal and we don't get the instruction book or experience on how to live a happy life outside of normal. I am and was a powerless human being; child of God and native Hawaiian...what could I know? nothing.
The alcoholic has defenses and uses them often. He defends himself against the reactions of those affected by his drinking and he tries to defend himself against his own thinking that something is wrong in his life and he is the cause of it...it doesn't work...he is not normal but abnormal just as we also become abnormal. I don't know if you have face to face meetings in your area though I do have some friends in recovery who live or have lived there and attended recovery there. Alcoholism is a world wide disease. I don't know if our literature is printed in Filipino and you can check with Al-Anon.org.
Keep coming back (((((hugs)))))
maryjane said
Sep 7, 2016
I write my favorite quotes in the back of my Courage to Change book. One of them is, "why do you think he will like it when you are changing?". My AH did not like it. He liked me the way I was and was predictable to him. He didn't want his attention on a new problem (me) when he had other stuff to think about.
I got into AlAnon after he got into AA. I felt I "should" give him a chance now that he wasn't drinking anymore and to see what would happen. Then I went to AlAnon and they said not to make any changes until I understood the program....... so I stayed. I learned to find my serenity and happiness whether he is drinking or not. In the beginning it was simply to remember to treat him with respect. That's all. I didn't worry about love, just respect. And even that much was hard. Some days, even now, I have to remember to curb the sarcasm and find the respect.
Bethany66 said
Sep 7, 2016
maryjane wrote:
I write my favorite quotes in the back of my Courage to Change book. One of them is, "why do you think he will like it when you are changing?". My AH did not like it. He liked me the way I was and was predictable to him. He didn't want his attention on a new problem (me) when he had other stuff to think about.
I got into AlAnon after he got into AA. I felt I "should" give him a chance now that he wasn't drinking anymore and to see what would happen. Then I went to AlAnon and they said not to make any changes until I understood the program....... so I stayed. I learned to find my serenity and happiness whether he is drinking or not. In the beginning it was simply to remember to treat him with respect. That's all. I didn't worry about love, just respect. And even that much was hard. Some days, even now, I have to remember to curb the sarcasm and find the respect.
I have to remember to curb the sarcasm and find the respect.
Thank you maryjane. I am working on that too. One day at a time...
e_i_m said
Sep 7, 2016
Hi Joselygp -- just FYI, CAL is available in French and Spanish, in case your mother reads either of those languages: http://www.marinal-anon.org/media/pdf/orderform.pdf if not, there's always Google Translate, which you can put a document through and then proofread for errors.
Freetime said
Sep 7, 2016
Just a thought, Jocel, in support of your mom, maybe you could teach her some of the slogans, like One Day At a Time, or Let Go and Let God. Sometimes reading lengthy literature is too much, but a slogan can help us get through a difficult spot.
jocelgp said
Sep 7, 2016
Thank you for all your thoughts and support. You're all such great blessing!
I did gave my mother a print of Just for Today side by side with the Decalogue of Pope John XXIII, she's a devout Catholic and I thought she'll appreciate it more with the similarities just as I did. I hope that will somehow help her get thru my husband's behavior.
I've checked the internet for Filipino translation but there's none. Google translation is a good idea but yeah you're right Freetime lengthy literatures could be too much for her, she'll just end up sleeping LOL! I think dropping some slogans is a good idea.
Too bad there's no Al-anon f2f in my place, Jerry, but I did attended some AA meetings and met some folks from AA. In one episode, he went with me to an AA meeting, not because he believes but because he wanted to give AA people some "lecture", oh my! I don't know his real intention, but I guess it's enough that he knows there's AA here if he would need it.
I have to do a lot of practice on how to ignore and not to react to the "alcoholic behavior" of my husband, just for a little piece of peace for that moment... for the day at least... praying to God to take care of the future.
I've been thru so much lately with my AH and have been working so hard just to keep focus on my self care and serenity. I am trying very hard not to mind my AH, whatever he is doing, planning, or up to; what he thinks of himself and what he plans for himself. I keep on reminding myself to Let Go and Let God, God will take care of him and of me. But my AH seems to test my patience, he makes sarcastic remarks at every opportunity he can pick on me. I feel like he is always provoking me. And he would even do this in front of my mother and when other people are present. I am trying so hard not to react but I am boiling inside and I feel like confronting him with separation. I know that this is not the proper time, but I also ask myself when would be proper, what would be proper? To my mind I feel like this is it but "something" is holding me back and I cannot see clearly what is holding me back
I was warned upfront that this was the usual thing that happened. So I was prepared.
Sorry you have this going on in your life.
What makes my situation harder is that we are living in my 83 yr. old widowed mother's house. I pity her and having guilty feelings that I brought this chaos in her life. I know she's affected when she would feel physically weak. Though she doesn't tell me so, I know that the stress is causing it to her. I know she can feel the burden I'm carrying. I know that some of her behavior is a reaction that alcoholism has brought in her house. I'm so sad and guilty that I brought her into this mess.
It's a good thing we didn't have children because this could have affected them too.
I have to be honest, I would pray to God to please take my husband away from us, just make my husband leave us. I have tried talking separation to my AH, calmly and otherwise but still he wouldn't go. He would just calm down and behave nicely again. With all that I've learned from Al-anon it is now less difficult for me to adjust and take life that this is going to be so, to accept and to hope for recovery for both of us. But what about my mom? I think it's not a good idea to tell my husband to leave for my mom's sake, he will just think that I'm making up excuses. I should be the one to leave then, but what about my mom, she's going to be alone, and she has been telling me that I shouldn't be the one to leave if I want to separate, it's our house. And I agree with that, it would be so dramatic if I will be the one to leave so that my husband will then leave the house. What if still he won't then I would be coming back because it's our house and then what? I'll be putting pressure on my mom to do something so I'll come back home. This is going to be more chaotic. I would have wanted for my husband to realize that it might be better for us to recover while living separately, but then again I cannot make him think that. I don't know what to do anymore...
I would also give Mom some alanon literature for support such as:" Alcoholism the Family Disease" and the Courage to Change. I have given these books to my niece, who will not go to alanon meetings but lives with an alcoholic and she reports they are helpful.
Positive thoughts on the way .
How I wish I could share some literatures with my mom but it's all in English, we have a different language here and my mom has little comprehension of English because she didn't even get thru High School. Al-anon is also very foreign to her as well as the concept of alcoholism as a disease.
I actually spent some time wearing earbuds with music to just allow me to be in my own peaceful place. I also had 2 places that they did not follow me into - the bathroom and the laundry room. My detaching process was not immediately with love - more like fuming indifference which gradually got better with practice and time.
You are not alone - trial and error helped me bunches...
If you decide that you want him to leave, he doesn't have to agree with you or think it's a good decision. It doesn't matter if he thinks your mother is an excuse or whatever. He will no doubt wheedle and blame and pretend to be baffled and all kinds of shenanigans to get you to go back on your decision. Often alcoholics will stall and delay because they want their comfy life and living situation. So you may have to evict him. It may be worth consulting a lawyer as to your options. When their way of life is threatened, alcoholics pull out all the stops to get the situation the way they like it. That doesn't mean you are any obligation to put up with him being there. Hope you will take good care of yourself.
Iamhere, thank you for sharing that your detaching process was not immediately with love because honestly I am questioning if it's wrong for me to not to feel love for my husband anymore. I don't feel the same for him anymore, yes the feeling is indifference. Like I don't care anymore about our marriage. What matters to me right now is my serenity, how I can be happy and peaceful. I used to dream of happiness with my husband in the picture, but now it doesn't really matter if he's there or not. I grew up in a family (FOO) with very strong values on marriage, that marriage is not based on feelings of love but of commitment. And I'm really bothered by this feeling of indifference and the option to separate. Before al-anon, when I haven't realized that alcoholism is what's causing all my troubles, I sought counselling help for our marriage. I thought I need to work on my marriage, I was doing it by myself because my husband doesn't believe in counselling either. Somewhere, alcoholism was pointed out by one counselor as a factor that should be addressed first, that's when I did a lot of research on alcoholism and came across AA and Al-anon.
Thank you also Mattie for your share, I know you've been thru separation and it helps to come to know of your ESH. I don't know what the future holds for me, if things will be better or harder and tougher, thank you for reminding me that I do have choices and options.
In all these, I pray to God to be my guide and keep us all in His loving hands.
(((Hugs)))
I can relate to your post. I too found that my AH ramped up his behaviour when I started to detach. For me I felt like I didn't love him anymore because I was detaching but now that I have been through it a little longer I don't think it was the case that I didn't love him. I think that my definition of love was the problem. I had a very codependent idea of what love was. Things have settled down a lot in my household due to my involvement in Al Anon and as I continued to change my AH adjusted too. Now when he has a problem he often says "but that is my problem to deal with not yours" and he tells me he says it to remind himself of that. My AH and I have less arguments and fights, there is less pushing and pulling between us but there is still love and respect even if he is still drinking. My AH also feels he doesn't have a drinking problem (although I hear him say maybe he does from time to time).
It sounds like you have a lot of thoughts and conflicting concerns going on inside. I can relate to that feeling too. When I feel that conflicted or emotional I tend to delay making any big decision about anything until I can have some peace around it. I remind myself to let go and let god to keep the focus on myself and to keep it simple. There is usually a very simple solution to some of the most challenging questions or concerns I have.
In my home situation my mom has her own apartment and for her that is a positive space for her. I even arrange to deliver dinner to her there and she likes having that space. We have an agreement that she doesn't have to join us for meals or other things unless she wants to and she will leave and go to her space whenever she feels the need. I know my situation is different because my mother lives in our house but creating her own space for her that is completely her own and will not be disturbed has been a great comfort to her and to me.
Sending you positive thoughts and prayers.
J; only one of the true realizations I came to when I first got here and started to work the program was that I wasn't superman or God and was only a human being with little to no experience living with the disease. I had not yet realized that I was born and raised in it and still was powerless as my family of origin was also. Alcoholism is not a natural way of living as the alcohol alters normal and we don't get the instruction book or experience on how to live a happy life outside of normal. I am and was a powerless human being; child of God and native Hawaiian...what could I know? nothing.
The alcoholic has defenses and uses them often. He defends himself against the reactions of those affected by his drinking and he tries to defend himself against his own thinking that something is wrong in his life and he is the cause of it...it doesn't work...he is not normal but abnormal just as we also become abnormal. I don't know if you have face to face meetings in your area though I do have some friends in recovery who live or have lived there and attended recovery there. Alcoholism is a world wide disease. I don't know if our literature is printed in Filipino and you can check with Al-Anon.org.
Keep coming back (((((hugs)))))
I got into AlAnon after he got into AA. I felt I "should" give him a chance now that he wasn't drinking anymore and to see what would happen. Then I went to AlAnon and they said not to make any changes until I understood the program....... so I stayed. I learned to find my serenity and happiness whether he is drinking or not. In the beginning it was simply to remember to treat him with respect. That's all. I didn't worry about love, just respect. And even that much was hard. Some days, even now, I have to remember to curb the sarcasm and find the respect.
I have to remember to curb the sarcasm and find the respect.
Thank you maryjane. I am working on that too. One day at a time...
Hi Joselygp -- just FYI, CAL is available in French and Spanish, in case your mother reads either of those languages: http://www.marinal-anon.org/media/pdf/orderform.pdf if not, there's always Google Translate, which you can put a document through and then proofread for errors.
I did gave my mother a print of Just for Today side by side with the Decalogue of Pope John XXIII, she's a devout Catholic and I thought she'll appreciate it more with the similarities just as I did. I hope that will somehow help her get thru my husband's behavior.
I've checked the internet for Filipino translation but there's none. Google translation is a good idea but yeah you're right Freetime lengthy literatures could be too much for her, she'll just end up sleeping LOL! I think dropping some slogans is a good idea.
Too bad there's no Al-anon f2f in my place, Jerry, but I did attended some AA meetings and met some folks from AA. In one episode, he went with me to an AA meeting, not because he believes but because he wanted to give AA people some "lecture", oh my! I don't know his real intention, but I guess it's enough that he knows there's AA here if he would need it.
I have to do a lot of practice on how to ignore and not to react to the "alcoholic behavior" of my husband, just for a little piece of peace for that moment... for the day at least... praying to God to take care of the future.
(((Hugs)))