One of the main reasons I stay is because I freaking feel sorry for him! I wish I didn't!! It isn't really love that keeps me here. If it was a "friend" in this situation I'd probably walk away until they were really clean. Anytime he binge drinks (right now he hasnt had a drink in 2 weeks, usually its 1 or 2x a week (4yrs ago it was everyday) he talks about how mad he is at himself for "messing up" again. He knows he has an issue, he tells me how he is sick and tired he is of disappointing himself, his son and me. He had an alcoholic mom and dad. He has no close family here (they all live in another State and continue to drink so much his mom never even remembers his birthday) so of course I feel bad he feels hurt and abandoned. (he doesn't grasp that he is an Adult Child of Alcoholics) His job is stressful so when he says having a beer or 2 after work is no big deal (of course his genetic makeup makes even 2 or 3 Tallboys too much for him, changes his personality for the worse) all my alcoholic and Alanon knowledge goes out the window and I feel like " well maybe he does deserve it, what else does he have" Most people I know have glasses of wine etc after work. Maybe I am the only one who doesnt drink! The world makes it look like drinking is the way to "chill". Im rambling.. but bottom line is I feel like leaving him would be mean because he has a "disease" and really doesnt understand it. He insists he can stop himself, that he doesnt have "withdrawls" its just mind over matter. That he is trying very hard. He is a single dad, working to hard to provide for his son and home. So I just feel guilty that if I leave, it is me being coldhearted. That he will get clean and meet someone else and I will be alone because I didn't stick it out. I feel bad that he is basically a good person that is caught up in a disease. I kind of want to walk away but I feel I am leaving the "good" person. Not the "drinker".

Its a struggle. It doesn't have to be all or nothing. You stay because you feel sorry for him. Do you also feel sorry for you? Why or why not? And what does that reveal about yourself and motivations? These are things I've asked myself as I remain married though physically separated yet still entwined. I definitely can relate to pity as a motivation to stay with a person though not in this marriage. It didn't work out well for me; it made no positive difference to him. Its sad your bf is beating himself up, but he does qualify for both programs (personally I prefer alanon with the insights of aa ). Let him get to one, keep the focus on you. There is always some reward we get out of staying with someone even if its a maladapted one. I've found I was powerless to change what I couldn't acknowledge but it wasn't so terrible to admit and claim my shortcomings. Its how we start getting better! Take good care of you.

I can relate to the processing you are doing in your mind.....and agree that it doesn't have to be all/nothing. I was extremely black/white in my thinking and working the program helped me to process differently. There is no doubt that for each of us alive on this earth, our past and all our experiences contribute to who we are today. It just is what it is. Trying to understand one person and their entire humanisms did not work for me. But, working to understand myself and my values and my own needs/wants helped me to see where I was expecting more from them than me and vice-versa.

Feeling bad for the pain of another person is not wrong - it is human. When we put their wants/needs in front of our own is when we may have issues. In the circumstance where I feel sorry for another, whether self-inflicted or not, I pray for them and turn them over to God. I now today that I can't fix them, control them, convince them, lead them or do anything but pray for them. I no longer blame the person - I am able to blame the disease. I would not wish this disease on another person ever!!

Just for today and acceptance really help me when I am processing about others. I also have to consider what is good and improved vs. what's broken. Both of my boys are on slippery slopes currently. However, just for today, they are both employed, productive members of society. This is a significant improvement over jail, prison, detox or the homeless shelter. They are not where I wish they were, but when I look for what's good, I can find it today.

(((Aerin))) - you are not alone!

I relate to both you and your A in your share. 1. I relate to your A in that I used to think just like you described as him. I was always a victim of circumstances and my own choices. Alcohol and my lack of a program caused me to be blind to solutions and opportunities. I could never see that it was MY RESPONSIBILITY to turn any lemons life handed me into lemonade. It was/is MY job to turn daily stress into challenges. I used to only bitch about work...family...and see drinking as necessary relief when really it only reinforced my crap attitude. I searched for and found others to believe my sad sack routine and I reeled them in when they saw me as "trying so hard..." and "really wanting to do better but just needing encouragement and help" to succeed. BS!!! It was MY fault I didnt have friends, a better support system, coping skills to deal with work...EVERYONE has a stressful job! That was just my BS excuse to drink and feel sorry for myself. Like most alcoholics, this was a self-constructed prison created entirely by ME!

2. To boot, I also hooked up with another alcoholic and carried on this way for 7 years. He had all the same dynamics and we both would whine and drink ourselves to oblivion while complaining how unfair life is....how stressful....how we'd gotten the short end of the stick. Misery loves company. I believed his pathetic sob stories and took the blame every time I challenged him to rise above and he failed or didn6want to. Specifically, he would get angry and drunker and accuse me of not remembering his horrible childhood and blah blah and would turn nasty on me and start talking specifically how I had no right to challenge him since my life was so much easier. Then we would argue over whose life had been more sucky and tragic....

All of this horrible cycle repeated til I jusy snapped! I had my moment like others here will say they had also. I just hit that wall and was screaming on the inside "Nooooooo! I don't want to be miserable all the time any more!" It was also abundantly clear by this time that my A did NOT need my help to feel sorry for himself, screw up, and underachieve. Also, my life was a MESS and only I could fix that with the help of AA and alanon. The rest is history. I chose to live. I chose to survive. I hopped off my own martyr cross and stopped clutching onto my A and his martyrdom/disease/diseased thinking.

Off the merry go round. Screw relationships based on mutual suffering, negativity, drama, chaos...been there done that! And for far too long! Literally thank God I found this program, found myself, and learned to have relationships where I celebrate who I am and who the other person is and we share in the abundance of friends, support, community, our dreams, our achievements...It is a radically different life for the better! Of course to be in a relationship with a positive, goal oriented person without the drama, NEWSFLASH! - I had to become like that. And that was the scary part....it involved a very vulnerable and awkward period of change...abandoning old ideas and forming new ones in AA and alanon. It was work, but well worth it. This is why we sometimes challenge each other here. If you don't do some work and change yourself in the program, you will just keep coming back here for empathy for the same sad stories and you deserve better!

You think you are being kind sticking with someone you feel sorry for. In my experience, I did that to punish myself and it hurt him and me. It gave us both reasons to avoid living life fully and finding true meaning and enjoyment in it. Don't expect your life to radically change overnight Aerin. You have the awareness of these patterns now. If you stick with alanon. I mean REALLY stick with it, change for the better is inevitable because you have embarked upon a path where awareness of problems now leads to reaching out for solutions and change from the inside out. Keep it up! Try not to be scared to change.

((((Aerin))))

I agree with IAH - it doesn't have to be black and white. We are here to look after our own serenity and well-being so I figured that I needed to look after myself, my self esteem and peaceful enjoyment in my life. So I am still with my husband but there is only so much self-pity or negative talk that I will put up with; If I feel tired I rest; If I need a break I take one; If I want to start a new hobby or study I do it; If I want my husband's company but he isn't available I accept it and get on with my own life. I would like our time together to be good, to leave me feeling valued, so that is what I accept, the rest passes me by more and more these days.

Have a good day proud lion! (((Hugs)))

Off the merry go round. Screw relationships based on mutual suffering, negativity, drama, chaos...been there done that! And for far too long! Literally thank God I found this program, found myself, and learned to have relationships where I celebrate who I am and who the other person is and we share in the abundance of friends, support, community, our dreams, our achievements...It is a radically different life for the better! Of course to be in a relationship with a positive, goal oriented person without the drama, NEWSFLASH! - I had to become like that. And that was the scary part....it involved a very vulnerable and awkward period of change...abandoning old ideas and forming new ones in AA and alanon. It was work, but well worth it. This is why we sometimes challenge each other here. If you don't do some work and change yourself in the program, you will just keep coming back here for empathy for the same sad stories and you deserve better! ........................................................... This is what I want... the chaos is too much. I am scared to make the change.. But everytime I go back, it is the same. (two weeks is the longest amount of time he hasnt binged in 4yrs) And his anger at himself for "not staying sober" makes him no fun to be around. He really feels everyone likes him better after a few drinks. Why no friends tell him he acts mean is beyond me. Yet I feel I'm kicking a puppy to the curb. This is not how a relationship should feel! I know no love is a fairytale but I don't think it should be this hard!

My friends mostly didn't tell me to stop cuz I surrounded myself with enablers, other alcoholics, and saved the worst behavior for those closest and most "trapped." He is not a puppy and also...people that treat their dogs like puppies forever wind up with misbehaving dogs that bite (literally and figuratively). Are you kicking yourself to the curb here? Also, you are right. It doesn't need to be so hard. Life isn't a fairytale. After 6 years with my current spouse...I am pretty pleased.

My point is not to say "Dump him!" It is more to value your instincts and self care. If you can find a way to be with him and not feel like you are selling yourself short or putting up with intolerable stuff, all good. It is scary cuz a stronger you won't need him or feel responsible for him...so then you are left with consciously choosing him and that will be a simpler decision. Doing the work to become confident and secure in yourself takes more courage.

pinkchip, that is true. I do feel "responsible" for him (AND my ex husband (father of my daughter) but for another reason. I am tired of being so "understanding" and "helpful" and "nice" when I don't want to be! (with him) Take out my "feeling sorry" and I don't really want this relationship. (a lot of you know he has been physically violent too) If you met him sober you wouldn't ever think he is like this! I am going to stay on this board though because it helps me find my self worth even though I truly feel its time to let go and let his HP take over. D*mn this is hard.

(((Aerin))) - your last sentence says it all - this is hard. It is hard to let go - I hear you and I remember how true this was for me. My experience is that it truly affected me (the letting go) much more than them. I truly thought that without me, all hell would break loose and they would die or ????? It didn't and they are still doing their thing. What primarily changed is I just put me first. I got up in the morning asking God to show me how to take care of me, my needs, my spirit and my heart. I went to my meetings. I went for my walks. I went for my coffees with others. I cooked what I enjoyed and they usually ate it. I read my books, I watched my shows, etc. I just made myself an equal in all things that I had previously put myself second or last.

It was awkward, hard and uncomfortable. But it got easier and easier with practice. I just kept my mouth shut when crazy-train arrived and did my thing. I still can't say how changing me changed things around me, but it did.

You are worth it. You deserve peace and joy. We all do. Choose You! And - please keep coming back!!