Will set a little context. My ex-wife has been active on and off for the past 11 years. Long story short. Two kids, age 14. She's had three major relapses/events.
Episode one (Kids age 4): A few bottles of wine, pills, razor and bathtub. Kids find her. Hospital. Three day hold.
---a whole lot of stuff in between. Separation, divorce, relapses, relationships (her's not mine), lots and lots of other addictions, klepto, pills, stalking (her's not mine)---
Episode two (kids at 12): Six months post DUI, in program, in counseling, in DUI classes, half bottle of Vodka attempts to get kids into car to drive to parents and "ask for help" Fortunately, kids are smart and she passed out at the steering wheel before they got in the car. Hospital. Three day hold. 28-day OP. CPS calls it "inconclusive." Kids go back.
Episode three (kids 14): After doing all of the things we hear she's done in the past to love herself, be clean for the kids, never take another drink because her doctor says it will kill her....and having earned the trust back of the kids.....Bingo, this one was a doozy. OD on Xanax and booze. This time, kids call 911. Grandparents rush over to provide CPR until medics get there. 30-day IP, 30-day OP. I have 100% custody. She moved in with boyfriend she'd been dating just a few months before the relapse. She gets supervised visits, but the kids have been reluctant to see her. Daughter is really warming up, as they've been allowed to text. Their first visit will be the mall. Son, will not receive texts. Wants no communication. Kids and I are in counseling. I'm starting to go back to Al-Anon. Son resisting.
Loving detachment, let go let God.... is much much easier when it doesn't involve your kids. The basic parental instincts of protecting they will overshadow any healthy thinking I can muster.
Questions I struggle with: (Thoughts?)
How hard do you push kids (son) to see her? Her therapist says EXTREMELY important to do it right away so they can see her in recovery (they have before).
Ex-wife wants her reunification to go shopping with daughter? Good/bad idea? Daughter doesn't want to confront. Would break my heart to watch the cycle repeat.
I've accepted there are never guarantees. I try to take it one day at a time, but for the kids, that equals more uncertainty. So, when do we even begin to talk about custody? There are real practical implications here for the kids.
I'm grateful they're safe. I'm grateful that my new wife and I can provide a stable environment. I'm grateful that the kids LOVE my wife. I'm grateful that my wife is grounded and emotionally available.
hotrod said
Aug 26, 2016
Welcome Theotis , You have certainly experienced the destructive power of this disease!!I do believe you have handled it remarkably well to date and salute your efforts to support your children during this difficult time.
I would like to suggest that you check out alateen meetings in your community in order for them to find the support they might need from like minded teens.
The alanon and alateen programs are excellent recovery resources and the hotline number is found in the white page. After they have attend a while it might be easier for you all to make healthy decisions. Please keep coming back here as well
Iamhere said
Aug 26, 2016
Welcome to MIP Theotis - glad you found us and glad that you jumped right in and shared. I have no experience with your scenario, so have no ESH to offer. I am so sorry that yourself and your kids have been affected by this disease.
I agree with Betty - counseling is a great start to get them the help they need, but there is no replacement for being with like-minded peers. I found that to be true for me with Al-Anon and know that our AlaTeen here is reasonably active. If that's not available and you have doubts, there is nothing to keep you from getting another opinion from another professional. We had good counselors and we had less-than-stellar counselors. It's a process, much like the program.
My hope is that your ex has found recovery for all the 'right reasons' and continues her efforts. How marvelous that your kids are in tune enough with the disease to self-protect from harm in the above scenarios. That speaks volumes to your parenting and I too salute you. Not every child would resist a parent - no matter the circumstances. My hope is that any concerns you or the children have are shared with the professionals so that nothing is forced - forcing solutions never worked for me, even when it was suggested by a professional.
Keep coming back - sending you positive vibes for a successful outcome!
Mattie said
Aug 27, 2016
From what I understand, it is your ex's therapist that says it is extremely important for her to see them right away? Or your daughter's therapist?
In assessing whether a therapist is giving good advice, I try to take into consideration whether their past advice has worked out well and has seemed sound and reasonable. In this scenario, I would also take your kids' desires into account, although I wouldn't prioritize their desires over good sense, as sometimes kids want things (candy for dinner, to live with an addict) that we know simply would have terrible consequences.
I hope you have a good support team and that you will use the tools and support of Al-Anon and Alateen too. I'm sorry that in alcoholic situations there are frequently no clear right answers - we just have to feel our way forward using the tools.
pinkchip said
Aug 27, 2016
Ex-wife's therapist sounds full of caca. And I am a subtance abuse therapist/clinical director of a rehab. Protect your kids. Let mom sort her own crap out. If she cant get sober just for her alone (regardless of the kids), it will never stick. Don't rush it.
-- Edited by pinkchip on Saturday 27th of August 2016 11:02:18 AM
-- Edited by pinkchip on Saturday 27th of August 2016 11:03:00 AM
Fedora said
Aug 30, 2016
In my extended family, we have a relative who abandoned her marriage and two young children for a drug-addicted, jail-veteran boyfriend. At first we thought it was the husband who was being a weirdo but we all quickly realized that it was the wife who had gone completely off the deep end. Unfortunately, nobody realized that all her "post-baby weight loss" was not caused by great healthy habits, but an attachment to meth, until it was way too late.
So the husband took the kids (well, it wasn't like there was any place for them to go other than the street), and, while working 2 jobs to make ends meet, managed to get the kids back in school (the kids were 5 and 8 at the time; mama had been "homeschooling" for the past year and when they were tested at public school, the little one was not allowed to go to kindergarten and the big one had to go back to 1st grade). He hooked up with a nice-acting lady with a daughter of her own. They both had fine enough jobs. Kids started to do better. Some visits with mom at first turned into fewer and fewer visits.
Jailbait boy returned to jail for a few months and mama started to come back to the family. She reconnected with family, sounded like she was trying to make amends. Kids got hopeful.
But then jailbait boy got out of jail and mama ran off for good. She moved in with grandma and senile grandpa, stole their money. When grand and gram were taken to nursing home, mama and jailbait found lodging somewhere, and made a new baby. We actually saw a picture that she posted on FB and it was just horrible; it was like every Public Service Announcement you had ever seen about what happens to people on meth. We all prayed that the baby was taken away but no one knows.
All this time, the kids kept hoping mama would come back. Who wouldn't? They wanted her to know how well they were doing in school. Daddy got them on the straight and narrow and they went from being years behind all the way to the gifted classes. They made her cards. And waited. And despite the fact that all the other relatives in family tried to pick up the slack, make holidays special, make them feel loved and valued ... every disappointment just, well, you know how it goes. Just to rub salt in the wound, the lady whom their dad had been shacking up with turned out to have serious issues of her own and tried to kill herself in front of the kids with a razor blade. It's actually a blessing that she didn't try to kill them at the same time. (They were alone with her.) That lady got taken away and disappeared from their lives.
Eventually they started admitted how angry they are at their mama. Counseling seems to have been helpful to them for finding a voice. (I wasn't privy to their sessions so I just am sharing what I observed.) Now they are angry and say they never want to see her again. Their dad says that if she came back and they wanted to see her, he wouldn't stop them. But at this point they all seem to be in agreement that she is dead to them and it's safer for everyone's health and emotional healing that they are not reunited with her.
I share this not because I can give advice (because I can't) but just to share another family's experience.
On the positive end, I can also report that the kids' dad is now in nursing school, and the kids are doing well, all things considered.
Theotis, I wish you peace for your decisions and healing for your kids. It sounds like you are a thoughtful parent. [hugs]
Jerry F said
Aug 30, 2016
Aloha T and welcome to the board. I have a man I sponsor in the program who use to bring his young children...a boy and girl with him to the meetings and they either sat at their own table and read or the like or sat at his table and welded with him. Today they are well balanced and at times a bit more so than Dad while mother is still in and out of court and jail and the like. The program works when you work it. Check to see if Alateen is available; it is a part of the Al-Anon Family Groups and it worked miracles when I use to sponsor their meetings; because of the program and not me.
Live in the day; not the past and not the future...just in the day and do the program for yourself . Allow them their choices and talk with them about the consequences of decisions...theirs and yours...share; don't blame or judge and accept without condition. There is lots of information they can read and understand so support that for them and yourself.
This disease is progressive and it is genetic allow them to learn and understand as much as they can about what alcoholism is and has done to their mother and their family. You can share your personal story also...just don't blame or judge. We don't degrade sick people. ((((hugs))))
Will set a little context. My ex-wife has been active on and off for the past 11 years. Long story short. Two kids, age 14. She's had three major relapses/events.
Episode one (Kids age 4): A few bottles of wine, pills, razor and bathtub. Kids find her. Hospital. Three day hold.
---a whole lot of stuff in between. Separation, divorce, relapses, relationships (her's not mine), lots and lots of other addictions, klepto, pills, stalking (her's not mine)---
Episode two (kids at 12): Six months post DUI, in program, in counseling, in DUI classes, half bottle of Vodka attempts to get kids into car to drive to parents and "ask for help" Fortunately, kids are smart and she passed out at the steering wheel before they got in the car. Hospital. Three day hold. 28-day OP. CPS calls it "inconclusive." Kids go back.
Episode three (kids 14): After doing all of the things we hear she's done in the past to love herself, be clean for the kids, never take another drink because her doctor says it will kill her....and having earned the trust back of the kids.....Bingo, this one was a doozy. OD on Xanax and booze. This time, kids call 911. Grandparents rush over to provide CPR until medics get there. 30-day IP, 30-day OP. I have 100% custody. She moved in with boyfriend she'd been dating just a few months before the relapse. She gets supervised visits, but the kids have been reluctant to see her. Daughter is really warming up, as they've been allowed to text. Their first visit will be the mall. Son, will not receive texts. Wants no communication. Kids and I are in counseling. I'm starting to go back to Al-Anon. Son resisting.
Loving detachment, let go let God.... is much much easier when it doesn't involve your kids. The basic parental instincts of protecting they will overshadow any healthy thinking I can muster.
Questions I struggle with: (Thoughts?)
I'm grateful they're safe. I'm grateful that my new wife and I can provide a stable environment. I'm grateful that the kids LOVE my wife. I'm grateful that my wife is grounded and emotionally available.
Welcome Theotis , You have certainly experienced the destructive power of this disease!!I do believe you have handled it remarkably well to date and salute your efforts to support your children during this difficult time.
I would like to suggest that you check out alateen meetings in your community in order for them to find the support they might need from like minded teens.
The alanon and alateen programs are excellent recovery resources and the hotline number is found in the white page. After they have attend a while it might be easier for you all to make healthy decisions. Please keep coming back here as well
I agree with Betty - counseling is a great start to get them the help they need, but there is no replacement for being with like-minded peers. I found that to be true for me with Al-Anon and know that our AlaTeen here is reasonably active. If that's not available and you have doubts, there is nothing to keep you from getting another opinion from another professional. We had good counselors and we had less-than-stellar counselors. It's a process, much like the program.
My hope is that your ex has found recovery for all the 'right reasons' and continues her efforts. How marvelous that your kids are in tune enough with the disease to self-protect from harm in the above scenarios. That speaks volumes to your parenting and I too salute you. Not every child would resist a parent - no matter the circumstances. My hope is that any concerns you or the children have are shared with the professionals so that nothing is forced - forcing solutions never worked for me, even when it was suggested by a professional.
Keep coming back - sending you positive vibes for a successful outcome!
From what I understand, it is your ex's therapist that says it is extremely important for her to see them right away? Or your daughter's therapist?
In assessing whether a therapist is giving good advice, I try to take into consideration whether their past advice has worked out well and has seemed sound and reasonable. In this scenario, I would also take your kids' desires into account, although I wouldn't prioritize their desires over good sense, as sometimes kids want things (candy for dinner, to live with an addict) that we know simply would have terrible consequences.
I hope you have a good support team and that you will use the tools and support of Al-Anon and Alateen too. I'm sorry that in alcoholic situations there are frequently no clear right answers - we just have to feel our way forward using the tools.
Ex-wife's therapist sounds full of caca. And I am a subtance abuse therapist/clinical director of a rehab. Protect your kids. Let mom sort her own crap out. If she cant get sober just for her alone (regardless of the kids), it will never stick. Don't rush it.
-- Edited by pinkchip on Saturday 27th of August 2016 11:02:18 AM
-- Edited by pinkchip on Saturday 27th of August 2016 11:03:00 AM
So the husband took the kids (well, it wasn't like there was any place for them to go other than the street), and, while working 2 jobs to make ends meet, managed to get the kids back in school (the kids were 5 and 8 at the time; mama had been "homeschooling" for the past year and when they were tested at public school, the little one was not allowed to go to kindergarten and the big one had to go back to 1st grade). He hooked up with a nice-acting lady with a daughter of her own. They both had fine enough jobs. Kids started to do better. Some visits with mom at first turned into fewer and fewer visits.
Jailbait boy returned to jail for a few months and mama started to come back to the family. She reconnected with family, sounded like she was trying to make amends. Kids got hopeful.
But then jailbait boy got out of jail and mama ran off for good. She moved in with grandma and senile grandpa, stole their money. When grand and gram were taken to nursing home, mama and jailbait found lodging somewhere, and made a new baby. We actually saw a picture that she posted on FB and it was just horrible; it was like every Public Service Announcement you had ever seen about what happens to people on meth. We all prayed that the baby was taken away but no one knows.
All this time, the kids kept hoping mama would come back. Who wouldn't? They wanted her to know how well they were doing in school. Daddy got them on the straight and narrow and they went from being years behind all the way to the gifted classes. They made her cards. And waited. And despite the fact that all the other relatives in family tried to pick up the slack, make holidays special, make them feel loved and valued ... every disappointment just, well, you know how it goes. Just to rub salt in the wound, the lady whom their dad had been shacking up with turned out to have serious issues of her own and tried to kill herself in front of the kids with a razor blade. It's actually a blessing that she didn't try to kill them at the same time. (They were alone with her.) That lady got taken away and disappeared from their lives.
Eventually they started admitted how angry they are at their mama. Counseling seems to have been helpful to them for finding a voice. (I wasn't privy to their sessions so I just am sharing what I observed.) Now they are angry and say they never want to see her again. Their dad says that if she came back and they wanted to see her, he wouldn't stop them. But at this point they all seem to be in agreement that she is dead to them and it's safer for everyone's health and emotional healing that they are not reunited with her.
I share this not because I can give advice (because I can't) but just to share another family's experience.
On the positive end, I can also report that the kids' dad is now in nursing school, and the kids are doing well, all things considered.
Theotis, I wish you peace for your decisions and healing for your kids. It sounds like you are a thoughtful parent. [hugs]
Aloha T and welcome to the board. I have a man I sponsor in the program who use to bring his young children...a boy and girl with him to the meetings and they either sat at their own table and read or the like or sat at his table and welded with him. Today they are well balanced and at times a bit more so than Dad while mother is still in and out of court and jail and the like. The program works when you work it. Check to see if Alateen is available; it is a part of the Al-Anon Family Groups and it worked miracles when I use to sponsor their meetings; because of the program and not me.
Live in the day; not the past and not the future...just in the day and do the program for yourself . Allow them their choices and talk with them about the consequences of decisions...theirs and yours...share; don't blame or judge and accept without condition. There is lots of information they can read and understand so support that for them and yourself.
This disease is progressive and it is genetic allow them to learn and understand as much as they can about what alcoholism is and has done to their mother and their family. You can share your personal story also...just don't blame or judge. We don't degrade sick people. ((((hugs))))