I have been in deep thought about my relationship with the abf. We have a house together and I went and got an apartment, as a plan B. I still have not moved any of my belongings into the apartment from the house. What am I waiting for? He has now been sober for 10 plus days and says this time, he is really done with the drinking. I want to believe him but its the same pattern. Goes on a major bender and gets sick as sick can be..near hospitalization and then sobers up, gets a job and stays sober and then starts drinking again and loose the job, and all hell breaks loose again. I then am feeling trapped and scared. Now that I have my apartment, I see that he is trying to get his life back on track and making an effort to stay sober. I should be happy that he is trying but its the same pattern that I have endured for over a year now that we lived together. I had an apartment prior but gave it up last February and moved in with him at the house.  I feel uncertain and scared that he will start up again. I have talked to other al-anon members and they said to move things into the apartment now and see how things go with abf. I have boxes at the house ready to pack up my belongings with but I have not made an effort to put anything in them. I am doing the wait and see game.  I am feeling so undecided and scared about the what if, what if...I know the future is uncertain, but I have fears of what if he starts drinking what will I do then? I know I will be packing pretty fast. He is such a great guy when he is sober and I love him but when he start drinking, its 24 hours a day, non stop talking to himself. Its brutal. I feel like when do I know when its time to pack and leave for good?  I know this time, I will not return to the house or the relationship if I leave. I just know it in my heart. I do not know how long this sobriety will last and my thoughts are what if he starts drinking and its winter time, what are you going to do? And then I would be angry at myself for not taking actions earlier. I keep hearing in my head, he will go back to the drinking, he will go back...its a matter of time. He had sobriety for 14 years prior and says this time he is done, but is he really done. Then my other thoughts say, maybe he is done with the booze this time, and a miracle can happen. Its back and forth..yes/no, yes/no. Then I go what is love? Do I love him or pity him or feel sorry for him? I know when we are together and he is sober, it feels so right, like this is where I am to be. What is keeping me from taking action? I am so confused with myself. Why can I not make the move to my apartment and take my things there? what is holding me back. Am I being realistic? Sane? What is holding me back from taking action?                                     

What is wrong with you??? You, my friend are a victim of a disease called alcoholism.  What I see is growth in yourself and in your program.  I see a person getting stronger and listening to that little voice within and I'm betting it keeps getting louder and louder. I believe this voice gets louder as we learn how to listen to it (and to understand the feelings inside).

Your concern over your A's behavior is well justified and reasonable.  Perhaps you could give yourself a nudge and just pack a few clothes and deliver one box at a time.  This way, if you have to lead in a real hurry, you will have clothes to wear.  Then perhaps some other supplies like cooking and bedding, just in case.  One box at a time, unless YOU feel like moving more.  If your littles voice starts screaming, don't close it off and smother it, listen and listen closely.  This is the voice of reason especially when we can't come to a decision on our own. If violence eruptes, it is imperative to go immediately and you could I likely be in serious danger if you try to pack and move then.  

I am not saying to leave him, that is something only you can decide, but I do wish you would begin considering moving a box or two.  If asked (and you were uncomfortable saying why you decided to pack), you could simply have "decided to declutter" and remove lesser used items to somewhere "out of the way". 

We have all had to make "the decision" with our A's at some point. Perhaps this is your point of decision.

God Bless!

For me this is the obsession. The drinker is obsessed with the drink, like a constant dripping tap that increases in urgency and we are the exact same, we are addicted to the person. Addicted to trying to control and change the facts of our lives with them. What are you waiting on? what have you always been waiting on? For me, I was waiting on it working out my way. Stubborn, yes, immature, yes. I wanted it my way. I wanted him to get sober and we would live happily ever after, a complete fairy story. This was my denial. 

So hes sober, is he in a program addressing the underlying issues of his disease? if not then of course its a matter of time.

I got to the stage that I believed that even being in his life in the smallest way was enabling. When I walked away not for punishment but for my own life and when everyone else decided it was too painful watching him slip away he got the empty space to practice his drinking to the max and live fully with those consequences without anyone interfering, reprimanding, helping, give sympathy etc and that space let him decide for himself that he didn't want that life. He has been sober ever since. He knows his drinking will be a lonely road because Alanon gave me and in turn our adult  children the courage to do what is right for us. We will not take part in his self destruction.

This is the way I look at it.  The overall condition we have is addiction.  I mean those of us who know we would be better off leaving, who have endured a lot of pain and chaos, and try to leave, and yet still don't leave.  But what is addiction?  I think it is overwhelming emotions.  Like: if you just sit and think about leaving, really doing it, what emotions run through you?  I'm not saying to say out loud here, but just to try it and think about it.  When I used to try it, over and over, I'd feel cold and extremely upset and horrified and terrified.  Really hard-to-endure emotions.  I think those are the same emotions alcoholics get when they think about a day without alcohol.  They drink to numb the emotions.  We stay with them to numb the emotions.

So one way to proceed is to tough it out with the emotions.  But that's the hard way and it makes it all too likely that we'll go back even if we don't want to. 

The easier way is to do the work to change those emotions before they happen.  To get lots of support, so there won't be the "I'll be alone!  No one will help me!" emotion.  To challenge the ideas that provoke the other emotions, like "I'll never find anyone as good as this" or "If this doesn't work out I'm a failure" or "He's the only one who can save me" and all those ideas that have gotten implanted in our heads.  When we go into recovery and work the steps, those ideas might still be there, but we can detach them and see them as F.E.A.R. = False Evidence Appearing Real.  And even though we'll feel the emotions, they won't control us.

Maybe also we can take baby steps.  I spent some time apart from my A before making the final break.  That time was so peaceful and relaxing that I lost some of my negative emotions about being away from him.

Hope you will take good care of yourself.

Hi Joker,

There are no guarantees in anything in this life and definitely no guarantees of sobriety.

Moving to an apartment on your own doesn't have to mean slamming the door on the relationship. You can still have a relationship with him if you want to and take it one day at a time.

Whether you live with him or separate from him, alcoholism as you know can be arrested but not cured. The chance of relapse will always be looming in the background. If accepting that kind of uncertainty feels very frightening, it could overshadow your ability to stay present and accept him which includes accepting that alcoholism is going to be present in your life with him always in some form. It's not for everyone.

If you move, it allows you to create some physical space between yourself and him. There will be time to yourself to consider what you really want for your own life. If it feels so good living alone that you feel afraid to ever trust living with him again, well.... that's what feels right for you. What's the alternative?  Live with him in fear every day? Sponsors have been known to help pack boxes as a way of being supportive of their sponsees.  ((((hugs)))) TT

I will be going to my morning meeting shortly and going with gratitude that I came here first; to the oasis of ESH which I need to live in daily. Waking up to the JUST FOR TODAY pamphlet reading and then the recovery exchanges in our family.  My morning prayer quite always is "Place me where you want me...tell me what to do"  HP loves that prayer and so answers it for me.  Mahalo to this Ohana; my family for the guidance.   (((((hugs)))))  

Hi Joker,

One reason we keep the focus on ourselves is it can prevent enabling. And enabling is actually working AGAINST the A's best interests. It could be that, if you leave for good, he will finally realize that you can't be enticed back, and perhaps, just perhaps, he will finally seek the help he needs. Or he may not, he may just sink lower and lower. Nevertheless, when I don't enable my wife, I feel it is an act of love. In fact, when she is in a right place in recovery, she will actually call me on it if I start to act like I would be enabling her.

I love, "Place me where you want me....tell me what to do."  That prayer alone, is probably the most powerful tool we have. Whether it is for a decision, detachment, or handing over what we just can't seem to deal with in the moment....it works when we get still and listen for the answer.  We wish it would come with lightening bolts to get our attention, but the message does come and the certainty we feel is usually pretty strong.

Hugs-El

You nailed it for me 100% El-Cee, thank you for your honesty.  I have been holding on tight for too long and finally now after years, I see clearly all the denial I was drowning in.  Thank you for your words that match my exact feelings I could not express.

Joker--I can completely understand and sympathize/empathize with you.  My AH is a binge drinker and is a great guy when he isn't drinking.  When he drinks, he doesn't stop until he is ready to stop.  It can last from days to weeks.  I have thought many, many times about leaving.  But, like you, I love my A and keep praying that maybe THIS time really will be the last time.  Unfortunately, I have been saying this for almost 7 years.  He just quit yesterday after a binge and I thought I would have sobriety for a while......he just came and told me he was going to get a small bottle.  The miracle hasn't happened yet.

Only you can decide what to do.  I can say this.....there is absolutely NOTHING wrong with you for hoping and praying that the miracle happens.  This site has taught me once again that there is nothing I can do to stop his drinking.  The question is, can you deal with the bad times?  Are there enough good times to make it worth it.  Honestly, there have been many, many times I wished I had left before we got married or too deep in the relationship.

I pray for you and all of us that have to go through this crap day in and day out because we love our A's.