I haven't been on here in a long time. My AH went from bad to worse, hit rock bottom and got sober. Yay! Right? He hasn't gone to any AA meetings or counseling but has been going to church with me twice a week. We have been very happy. It's like I got my best friend back! When he hit rock bottom he opened up about everything, apologized and I forgave him. As of today he will have been sober for 5 weeks. But there was so much hurt and damage done that even though I'm happy those memories still come up. I get sad, hurt and angry all over again. I take it to God and I am always able to find a peace about it. Yesterday, my AH overheard me crying in the shower. He asked what I was crying about. I told him I was talking to God. And he wanted to know specifically about what. So I just told him that I'm still hurt and things pop into my head that have happened. So then he gets furious with me. He said that I thought you had forgiven me, etc. I thought we were happy, etc. I tried explaining to him that healing takes time. That I am happy, I HAVE forgiven him. But he was already in a mood and wouldn't hear anything else. How selfish!!! He hasn't talked to me for 2 days now. I am so angry. Just because he is trying to stay sober I have to be a robot and not have any feelings? I don't know what to do now? When he was drinking he would do cruel things to make me worry or make me sad. Now, he's doing those things. Like getting dressed up to make me think he's going out to the bar but will post on FB hours later that he's at the beach thinking. So I would have to worry for a few hours. The other night he came home with some bottles that looked like beer bottles but they were juice. He wants to punish me for having feelings? We have been together for 13 years. He was sober that whole time until 10 months ago when he relapsed. I have seen the ugliest side of him and have stuck by his side through it all! And now that he's sober he is still just as selfish if thing aren't going smoothly. I don't know how much more of this emotional roller coaster I can take. Thank you all so much for letting me vent.
jojo8466 said
Aug 23, 2016
Dlove wrote:
I haven't been on here in a long time. My AH went from bad to worse, hit rock bottom and got sober. Yay! Right? He hasn't gone to any AA meetings or counseling but has been going to church with me twice a week. We have been very happy. It's like I got my best friend back! When he hit rock bottom he opened up about everything, apologized and I forgave him. As of today he will have been sober for 5 weeks. But there was so much hurt and damage done that even though I'm happy those memories still come up. I get sad, hurt and angry all over again. I take it to God and I am always able to find a peace about it. Yesterday, my AH overheard me crying in the shower. He asked what I was crying about. I told him I was talking to God. And he wanted to know specifically about what. So I just told him that I'm still hurt and things pop into my head that have happened. So then he gets furious with me. He said that I thought you had forgiven me, etc. I thought we were happy, etc. I tried explaining to him that healing takes time. That I am happy, I HAVE forgiven him. But he was already in a mood and wouldn't hear anything else. How selfish!!! He hasn't talked to me for 2 days now. I am so angry. Just because he is trying to stay sober I have to be a robot and not have any feelings? I don't know what to do now? When he was drinking he would do cruel things to make me worry or make me sad. Now, he's doing those things. Like getting dressed up to make me think he's going out to the bar but will post on FB hours later that he's at the beach thinking. So I would have to worry for a few hours. The other night he came home with some bottles that looked like beer bottles but they were juice. He wants to punish me for having feelings? We have been together for 13 years. He was sober that whole time until 10 months ago when he relapsed. I have seen the ugliest side of him and have stuck by his side through it all! And now that he's sober he is still just as selfish if thing aren't going smoothly. I don't know how much more of this emotional roller coaster I can take. Thank you all so much for letting me vent.
I'm new to Al-Anon and I'm not trying to give advise at all (I know that is one of the rules) but reading your post it makes me wonder if you are in the same boat as me and you have to figure out if it's just the remains of the disease in his brain that is making him act selfish or is he truly just an a**** and you are just now seeing the true him. Not trying to offend you or hurt you. I'm just dealing with the same thing from my A lover. Trying to decipher if the disease is making him so mean and thoughtless or if he is truly just an a*** and after 8 years together I'm finally seeing the real him. And if this is the real him then I don't want him.
-- Edited by hotrod on Wednesday 24th of August 2016 08:18:04 AM
Rosemeyer said
Aug 23, 2016
Reminds me of a greeting card I saw recently: "There are two sides to each story - and in both, you are an asshole!"
Seriously, the "is it the disease or is it the true him" chorus rang through my head for so long. Gradually, the Alanon tools began to kick in, and I started to realize what detaching really meant to me; that, with my HP's help, I can always bring the focus back to my own recovery, to my health and well-being. Once I started embracing that, the chorus started to subside, and my path came clearer to me.
Face to face meetings help (as well as just plain old venting!) Hugs and strength to you both.
Dlove said
Aug 23, 2016
jojo8466...I'm so sorry you are going through the same thing. However, it helps to know I'm not the only one. Yes, I am trying to figure out the same thing. I hope and pray he is just trying to find new ways to cope and this is part of the process. But if not, I just can't go through it again. Trying to stay positive. We have an 11 year old, 7 year old and 10 month old. I homeschool our kids and run an in home daycare. I'm exhausted! I just can't handle the butterflies everyday not knowing what each day holds. I hope things get better for you too!!
Dlove said
Aug 23, 2016
Rosemeyer...yes, it's been a good reminder that even when things are going good I need to keep going to meetings and working my own program. I was just so excited to have him back these past 5 weeks that I just wanted to do our family things that we used to do before the drinking started. But I now realize that it's important for all of us.
Jerry F said
Aug 23, 2016
Aloha Dlove you are explaining the sickening insanity of the disease which the program steps explain we will be relieved of by Higher Power. Came to believe that a power greater than ourselves can restore us to sanity. It happened to me that way in the rooms of Al-Anon rather than the couch in my psychologist's office. I know what crazy is from before and I like peace of mind and serenity much much better. Sad with you that the pain remains however with the meetings, literature, sponsor and of course a power greater than your self you will be restored. practice, practice, practice. ((((Hugs))))
milkwood said
Aug 23, 2016
(((((Dlove))))))
I understand those flashback feelings that you have been experiencing. I experience them myself. I found that when my husband was drinking I stuffed the hurt down deep and now those feelings come to the surface even though there is absolutely nothing wrong with my present moment. Meditation helps me. I need to treat myself just as well as I possibly can. It is very difficult for my husband to understand this process but as Jerry says, I keep practicing!
I'm glad that you and AH have been enjoying some good times and yes, it is a pity that he can't just give you a hug and listen to your tears and let the anger that you feel escape. I know that my husband finds it really uncomfortable when my hurt shows and he simply can not be my comforter in this. I have tried hiding those hurt feelings but as you already know that approach isn't sustainable and it just leads to resentment which is why talking to the folks who do get it here in Alanon is so very precious for me.
I kept venting (and still do from time to time) until I was so darned bored of it that I didn't want to hear myself any more. Then I went and found myself some good news things to talk about instead.
hotrod said
Aug 23, 2016
The only way that I could honestly forgive all the hurt caused by this dreadful disease was to work the Steps with a sponsor. When i saw and truly accepted how this anger, resentment self pity and fear were hurting me, I finally understood that I was hurting myself.
When I accepted the fact that these hurts happened and that I was willing to stop feeling angry and resentful about it, then I was helping myself to heal --That worked. Step 4 through 11 are so very important to recovery.
There is an interesting and eye opening reading in the ODAT on this subject . It points out that I would have no need to "forgive", if I had not already judged,and blamed another. With that thought
I then forgave myself for holding on to the pain.
Thanks to alanon I found I was the only one I needed to forgive.
el-cee said
Aug 24, 2016
The way Ive learned the disease to be is that the drinking is only part of the disease. Its a disease where thinking is distorted and disturbed, so the thought processes are faulty and the recovery is about learning to think differently, like learning a new language. It takes pretty hard work to at first be able to admit to yourself that your thinking is distorted and wrong really and then to identify these thoughts and to work with others (AA/Alanon) to train another way of thinking that looks at the world and people in a more realistic, loving, kind, pleasant way.
Your husband sounds like a dry drunk, so hes not doing the drinking part but hes still full of the anger, resentment, manipulation etc that goes along with the thinking disorder. Im not sure church is enough to cope with alcoholism. In AA and in Alanon, because we have the same thinking disorder, gives us tools and a support network through meetings and its takes a real desire to change along with a willingness to accept you need the help.
I think the best thing you could do is get to a meeting, get that recovery for yourself so you can begin to get some clarity.
SerenityRUS said
Aug 25, 2016
Forgiveness is a process .. I know it's the destination I want to arrive at however I don't have to get there for a number of reasons:
1. It is a process.
2. There is no timetable. It is all about me .. not anyone else not even the person I am forgiving.
3. I allow time to take time. Back to part 1 .. it's a process.
When I force forgiveness I wind up feeling extremely resentful. The other thing is I can forgive someone I have permission not to allow them back into my life.
Forgiveness doesn't equal forgetting .. I do not want to forget the situation or pretend that it never happened .. it also allows me to create boundaries that best work for me and as I choose to trust I give myself permission to explore what that means to me.
The first person I have to forgive though is myself .. I have discovered through working the program I created a tremendous amount of my own pain and as I forgive myself it becomes easier to forgive others and redirect myself to a healthier way of living.
No one else gets to dictate when that should be and who should be in my life and I feel extremely strongly about that ..
Doingmybest said
Aug 25, 2016
From what I gleaned from your post, your AH has been "dry", but not in a recovery program such as AA. I did not catch if he had ever been in a recovery program or if he had a history of being an unkind and uncaring person prior to the 10 months of drinking. Forgive me if I missed it, but it does matter because a person's character in true sobriety (recovery) is generally very different than the behavior they display when they are dry but not sober. These two conditions may seem synonomous, but they are very, very different.
My RAH was exactly as you describe your AH during the one six month stint he had at trying sobriety without AA. He later told me (though Ithought he was very happy because I was very happy) that that was the worst six months of his life! It took another 4-5 years for him to hit bottom and reach out for AA with both hands. His meetings come first now and I am happy for that. A few days ago we were talking and he thought I was saying he was spending too much time at meetings. He freaked out and said "I AM GOING TO MY MEETINGS"! I wasn't saying that at all and as soon as I said "hold on just a second" in a calm and loving tone and explained that his meetings are very very important to me and I would never ask him to not go to a meeting unless it was in the middle of an emergency, he understood. Someone who is truly in recovery will tell you without hesitation that their recovery is important to them. They will not have the time or inclination to be "making up situations" or "creating cruel games" to harm others unless that is their true character and you would likely already know this about your AH.
What I am trying to say is that your AH may be dry, but not sober. If that is the case, he will likely continue to behave as he did when he was drinking. AA, like AlAnon for us, gives the alcoholic a program to follow and teaches them how to live in true sobriety. I cannot explain this very well because I am (thank God) not alcoholic. I am, however, so glad to have found AlAnon because I finally "get it" and it all makes sense. I can also forgive and live my life now for the first time, without keeping the hurt in the background somewhere.
KT2015 said
Aug 25, 2016
Hi Dlove
You are not alone. If you appreciate that feeling from this board try a face to face meeting it is even better! I was going to write that forgiveness is a process but Serenity beat me to the punch ;) I used to think I forgave easily. Sometimes I would actually say that "I forgive too easily" but I think saying that statement in the tone you can imagine was an indication that I actually didn't. my AH is an active drinker and the behaviour you describe is very similar to his when he's trying to make a point. The whole dry drunk concept might be something to consider. But really the best thing you can do is focus on yourself and taking care of yourself. Face to face meetings, reading literature and working the al anon program have helped me immensely.
Crau said
Aug 30, 2016
Forgiveness is hard and so important for recovery. When my exAB decided to start doing some reflecting and making amends, he said with tears in his eyes that he hoped I would forgive him. What he wanted right there was immediate forgiveness and while I know that deep down I want to be able to forgive him, I knew in that moment that I wasn't there. I said to him, I'm learning to forgive and it's a process. It felt uncomfortable as I think we both assumed I would have said "I forgive you" and yet I didn't. Funny thing is that we both walked away from that conversation saying "that was a great step in the right direction for both of us". It took great strength for him to process that forgiveness was going to take time and for me to recognized that I didn't need to say I forgave him just to make him feel better about himself. I own my actions and feelings and he owns his.
I'm new to Al-Anon and I'm not trying to give advise at all (I know that is one of the rules) but reading your post it makes me wonder if you are in the same boat as me and you have to figure out if it's just the remains of the disease in his brain that is making him act selfish or is he truly just an a**** and you are just now seeing the true him. Not trying to offend you or hurt you. I'm just dealing with the same thing from my A lover. Trying to decipher if the disease is making him so mean and thoughtless or if he is truly just an a*** and after 8 years together I'm finally seeing the real him. And if this is the real him then I don't want him.
-- Edited by hotrod on Wednesday 24th of August 2016 08:18:04 AM
Seriously, the "is it the disease or is it the true him" chorus rang through my head for so long. Gradually, the Alanon tools began to kick in, and I started to realize what detaching really meant to me; that, with my HP's help, I can always bring the focus back to my own recovery, to my health and well-being. Once I started embracing that, the chorus started to subside, and my path came clearer to me.
Face to face meetings help (as well as just plain old venting!) Hugs and strength to you both.
Aloha Dlove you are explaining the sickening insanity of the disease which the program steps explain we will be relieved of by Higher Power. Came to believe that a power greater than ourselves can restore us to sanity. It happened to me that way in the rooms of Al-Anon rather than the couch in my psychologist's office. I know what crazy is from before and I like peace of mind and serenity much much better. Sad with you that the pain remains however with the meetings, literature, sponsor and of course a power greater than your self you will be restored. practice, practice, practice. ((((Hugs))))
I understand those flashback feelings that you have been experiencing. I experience them myself. I found that when my husband was drinking I stuffed the hurt down deep and now those feelings come to the surface even though there is absolutely nothing wrong with my present moment. Meditation helps me. I need to treat myself just as well as I possibly can. It is very difficult for my husband to understand this process but as Jerry says, I keep practicing!
I'm glad that you and AH have been enjoying some good times and yes, it is a pity that he can't just give you a hug and listen to your tears and let the anger that you feel escape. I know that my husband finds it really uncomfortable when my hurt shows and he simply can not be my comforter in this. I have tried hiding those hurt feelings but as you already know that approach isn't sustainable and it just leads to resentment which is why talking to the folks who do get it here in Alanon is so very precious for me.
I kept venting (and still do from time to time) until I was so darned bored of it that I didn't want to hear myself any more. Then I went and found myself some good news things to talk about instead.
The only way that I could honestly forgive all the hurt caused by this dreadful disease was to work the Steps with a sponsor. When i saw and truly accepted how this anger, resentment self pity and fear were hurting me, I finally understood that I was hurting myself.
When I accepted the fact that these hurts happened and that I was willing to stop feeling angry and resentful about it, then I was helping myself to heal --That worked. Step 4 through 11 are so very important to recovery.
There is an interesting and eye opening reading in the ODAT on this subject . It points out that I would have no need to "forgive", if I had not already judged,and blamed another. With that thought
I then forgave myself for holding on to the pain.
Thanks to alanon I found I was the only one I needed to forgive.
The way Ive learned the disease to be is that the drinking is only part of the disease. Its a disease where thinking is distorted and disturbed, so the thought processes are faulty and the recovery is about learning to think differently, like learning a new language. It takes pretty hard work to at first be able to admit to yourself that your thinking is distorted and wrong really and then to identify these thoughts and to work with others (AA/Alanon) to train another way of thinking that looks at the world and people in a more realistic, loving, kind, pleasant way.
Your husband sounds like a dry drunk, so hes not doing the drinking part but hes still full of the anger, resentment, manipulation etc that goes along with the thinking disorder. Im not sure church is enough to cope with alcoholism. In AA and in Alanon, because we have the same thinking disorder, gives us tools and a support network through meetings and its takes a real desire to change along with a willingness to accept you need the help.
I think the best thing you could do is get to a meeting, get that recovery for yourself so you can begin to get some clarity.
1. It is a process.
2. There is no timetable. It is all about me .. not anyone else not even the person I am forgiving.
3. I allow time to take time. Back to part 1 .. it's a process.
When I force forgiveness I wind up feeling extremely resentful. The other thing is I can forgive someone I have permission not to allow them back into my life.
Forgiveness doesn't equal forgetting .. I do not want to forget the situation or pretend that it never happened .. it also allows me to create boundaries that best work for me and as I choose to trust I give myself permission to explore what that means to me.
The first person I have to forgive though is myself .. I have discovered through working the program I created a tremendous amount of my own pain and as I forgive myself it becomes easier to forgive others and redirect myself to a healthier way of living.
No one else gets to dictate when that should be and who should be in my life and I feel extremely strongly about that ..
From what I gleaned from your post, your AH has been "dry", but not in a recovery program such as AA. I did not catch if he had ever been in a recovery program or if he had a history of being an unkind and uncaring person prior to the 10 months of drinking. Forgive me if I missed it, but it does matter because a person's character in true sobriety (recovery) is generally very different than the behavior they display when they are dry but not sober. These two conditions may seem synonomous, but they are very, very different.
My RAH was exactly as you describe your AH during the one six month stint he had at trying sobriety without AA. He later told me (though I thought he was very happy because I was very happy) that that was the worst six months of his life! It took another 4-5 years for him to hit bottom and reach out for AA with both hands. His meetings come first now and I am happy for that. A few days ago we were talking and he thought I was saying he was spending too much time at meetings. He freaked out and said "I AM GOING TO MY MEETINGS"! I wasn't saying that at all and as soon as I said "hold on just a second" in a calm and loving tone and explained that his meetings are very very important to me and I would never ask him to not go to a meeting unless it was in the middle of an emergency, he understood. Someone who is truly in recovery will tell you without hesitation that their recovery is important to them. They will not have the time or inclination to be "making up situations" or "creating cruel games" to harm others unless that is their true character and you would likely already know this about your AH.
What I am trying to say is that your AH may be dry, but not sober. If that is the case, he will likely continue to behave as he did when he was drinking. AA, like AlAnon for us, gives the alcoholic a program to follow and teaches them how to live in true sobriety. I cannot explain this very well because I am (thank God) not alcoholic. I am, however, so glad to have found AlAnon because I finally "get it" and it all makes sense. I can also forgive and live my life now for the first time, without keeping the hurt in the background somewhere.
You are not alone. If you appreciate that feeling from this board try a face to face meeting it is even better! I was going to write that forgiveness is a process but Serenity beat me to the punch ;) I used to think I forgave easily. Sometimes I would actually say that "I forgive too easily" but I think saying that statement in the tone you can imagine was an indication that I actually didn't. my AH is an active drinker and the behaviour you describe is very similar to his when he's trying to make a point. The whole dry drunk concept might be something to consider. But really the best thing you can do is focus on yourself and taking care of yourself. Face to face meetings, reading literature and working the al anon program have helped me immensely.