I've been married for 34 years. In 2006, my husband started drinking heavily and it spiraled until he drank every day starting first thing in the morning. I only found out about it because I put a GPS in his car and tracked him for a week. Living with him was hell. He had constant anger outbursts and my son and I walked on egg shells. I didn't leave because I kept hoping he would change; this wasn't who he was. He managed to hold on to his job, he is the boss and basically makes his own schedule. He travels a lot during the week so we got breaks from the emotional abuse.
This went on for seven years and one day, he admitted that he had a problem and decided to stop drinking. That was two and a half years ago. He went to AA and threw himself into recovery. He became an amazing person and our relationship grew strong and healthy. We did everything together and had great times with our three adult kids. We had never been so happy. He surprised us all with a wonderful family vacation and bought me a brand new car out of the blue one day. After that, he suddenly began to spiral down and within two months, our whole family was blown apart.
During the spiral, I noticed that he stopped saying goodbye when he left. He would just walk out. He didn't listen to me when I was talking, he would actually walk out of the room when I was in mid-sentence. He started to yell at me over stupid things and tell me that I was never happy with anything that he did. He started sleeping in the spare bedroom. I saw him start to emotionally detach himself from me but still didn't realize how serious it was. I made the mistake of trusting him. I thought he might be cheating but after checking his phone and computer, I found nothing. One day out of the blue, he told me that we needed to find an 'exit strategy' and basically told me to get out of the house. He asked me to give him the passwords for all of the bills and totally cut off my money supply. I had to quit my job a few years ago due to health issues so I had no income. I was selling my jewelry to survive.
I stayed with my daughter for a few weeks, but had to keep coming home to stay with our three dogs when he went on a work trip. The back and forth was getting exhausting both physically and emotionally, so I moved back in. I didn't have the money to keep going back and forth. I applied for spousal support at Domestic Relations even though I was living at home because I still have expenses; medical, medications, credit cards, car payment, car insurance, food, etc. That scared him and he agreed to start giving me money. One day my son came home from golfing and my husband exploded because he didn't cut the grass. He kicked him out of the house. My son was in college and had a part time job that only covered his expenses. He had no where to go and no money to survive. That made everything so much worse and divided relationships with my two daughters also.
My husband started telling lies to family and friends about what happened and it divided our extended family as well. No one outside of this house knows the truth about him. He covers up well. No one sees the monster that he has become. It's been a year since all this happened and nothing has changed. I'm still living here because I don't have the money to move out. We eat and watch TV together when we are speaking but the only safe subject I can talk about is the dogs. If I talk about anything else, he explodes. He is selfish and so emotionally detached from me and the kids it's unreal. He hasn't seen our son in over a year. He's only seen our daughter three times and the other daughter once (she lives in another state though). My son is getting married in 3 months and he has not made any attempt to connect with him before the wedding. I cannot talk about the wedding or mention my sons' name. My husband has even told me on numerous occasions that if I cared about him, I would stand on his side and not attend the wedding. I told him that the problem is between him and my son, not me and my son. My sister died suddenly a few months ago and he was not able to get back from a trip in time to attend the viewing. He screamed at me and didn't talk to me for a month.
I have tried asking him to go back to AA, but he doesn't think he has a problem. He is worse now than when he was drinking. He thinks he is being rational but he put himself on a high horse and treats us like we are beneath him. He tries to control everything, even going so far as making me turn out all lights at night to save electricity. The house was pitch black and I asked him to leave light on so I didn't trip and fall if I got up at night. He said no and a few nights later, I did trip over a dog and hit the floor. The stress is unreal. We've owned this house for 19 years and he acts like it's his house and he just allows me to live here. It was always OURS. The money was always OURS. Everything is his now.
I know I should leave. I plan to, but it's going to take time. I have to get my credit rating up so I can buy a house because I have to be able to have my dogs. I am slowly paying off my credit cards and trying to save. In the meantime, it would be nice if a miracle occurred and he realized that he is a Dry Drunk. I do think he is drinking again here and there. I see the signs....mints, falling asleep early, snoring, slurring words, facial expressions....
Any advice?
Iamhere said
Aug 15, 2016
Welcome to MIP Ella Bella - glad you found us and glad that you shared. Al-Anon teaches us about the disease and how to detach with love from the A in our life. We each work the program at our pace and find our own path to serenity. Living with an active A is challenging; living with a dry A is also. I do not buy into the dry drunk term and I'm a double-winner - belong to AA & Al-Anon. I'm not one to assign labels to others, for any reason at any time - it's just a part of my recovery to mind my own business and focus on me and not others.
The best suggestion I have is to go to some Al-Anon meetings. You will find others who will share their ESH (Experience, Strength & Hope) with you and where you will find support. Read around here too and you'll learn more about the disease and the diseased. There is nothing you can do that will change him or what he does, but you certainly can change you and how you react to it.
Keep coming back - you are not alone!
Mirandac said
Aug 15, 2016
Welcome ella,
Face to face alanon meetings will help you, to deal
with all of your issues as you work the program and
The steps. Alanon is for us to get Better and live a
spiritual way of life regardless of what the A is doing
or not doing.
I have my own issues with my xah's unresolved problems,
Who knows where his thinking is coming from, my xah was
acting badly and i needed to get away and self protect and find
Some Peace. I have found peace in this program, he attends
AA so i do pray for his soul, his choices, his life. He has been
Dry for 30 years.
I just sat and listened, learned and absorbed at my mtgs for a
long Time. I come from dysfunction and alcoholism as many
Others before me. So we literally have a life time to recover
From. Alanon is about us healing our wounds and living a
Healthier and saner lifestyle.
(((((((( ella )))))))))
Ella Bella said
Aug 15, 2016
Well, my therapist was the one who brought up Dry Drunk Syndrome. I'd never heard of it before that. I came home and looked it up; he sure fits the description. It makes complete sense that if the alcoholic isn't drinking but stops working the program (he did, he quit AA), they would go back to the same old selfish mindset. He's even worse than before. He used to feel remorse and guilt; not any more. He justifies all of his behavior. A few months ago he said, "I decided that I am not going to feel bad about myself any more". That is a good thing for most people, but for him it is a license to do or say whatever he wants and not feel bad about it.
He has all of the symptoms of a narcissist and I'm talking about the psychological term, not the general word used to describe someone who posts too many selfies. I've thought of Al-Anon and can't find any meetings in my area. I even asked my husband to look because he had a website that listed the AA meetings. He couldn't find any either. You're right though, I cant break my attachment no matter what he does. We had many great years and many wonderful memories. We've been together since I was 16 years old. He was a good father and loved his kids. I just don't understand this no matter how hard I try. I've become so good at not reacting to him that I keep everything inside. I don't fight back any more and haven't for a long time. All that does is give him ammunition to use against me....he makes me out to be crazy when all I'm doing is reacting to his craziness. Of course he leaves that part out. At the beginning of all of this, he kept calling me a psycho and relayed that to people we knew. He was the one who broke down our bedroom door and exploded all the time. I live each day just trying to keep peace.
Aloha Ella Bella and welcome to the board. Suggestion is that there are two online meetings here daily with in the eastern time zone which I have heard nothing but good about...I am in the Pacific Time zone so rarely get to the online groups.
Dry Drunk Syndrome...yeppers!! have seen and heard from it and at that those times would have bet good money that the person was drinking. Everything is the same with the exception of the booze and I made a study of it as a alcoholism/Drug addiction therapist. The spouses of the Dry Drunk Drunk go as mad or worse because now they loose the opportunity to blame the booze and they forget they do have an alcoholic right there in front of them.
Same program applies for me whether she was drinking and using or not and once I learned that I also was responding in the same way as if she was drinking and using I knew what my problem was...I was "acting as if" and should have been acting as if it was not. I detached and didn't participate and followed a guidance my then sponsor taught me, "Don't react". I slowed everything down for me. I assessed and responded (not reacted) more slowly and then responded, if I did at all, with understanding and compassion and that means I didn't baby her or enable her behaviors, thoughts and feelings ...she got to own those all without me getting in the way. You can do the same. Believe me your husband is sensing and seeing everything thru fear...his brain is seeing all of the "False Evidence Appearing Real" and believing it while he should not. I am a double; Alcoholic and Al-Anon member and fully understand Step Two and why the last word of that step is SANITY.
You can contact the AFG.org on line and ask them about meetings where you are at...meetings are registered and you might not be aware.
Keep coming back, this works when you work it...looking online for Al-Anon Literature also. ((((Hugs))))
Ella Bella said
Aug 15, 2016
Thank you, Mirandac! I was able to find two meetings in my area. Now I need the courage to go. I know that I should have gone a long time ago, but it's hard to seek help when you're not the one with the problem. I resent him for placing me in this situation. He should be the one getting help.
Jerry, thanks for the vindication. While he was doing well, I did forget that I had an alcoholic husband. He was a better version of himself than I'd ever seen. He seemed so happy and appeared to find the key to peace and happiness. I envied him, but it didn't last. His backward slide is all my fault, of course. He keeps saying that he changed but I didn't. He set up some invisible expectations of me that I wasn't aware of and when I didn't meet them, he decided to toss me out. At that time, he was back to his paranoid, miserable, toxic self and I find it ironic that the abusive alcoholic expected change from a wife who stuck by him through everything. I still don't know what changes he expected. He was my best friend and I can't stop mourning the loss. He seems to have no attachment to any memories that we shared. It's like he wiped everything out and has no emotion except anger. I wonder if he really feels that way or if it is a defense mechanism.
I mentioned above that he's only seen our daughter three times in a year. She only comes over when he is away on trips. She came over the other day though knowing he was local and would be home after work. We were outside in the pool when he got here. He walked over to her, said hello, chatted for a few minutes then went inside to play a computer game. Totally snubbed her. He could have changed his clothes and joined us. She couldn't believe it. Neither could I. I treasure every moment with our kids....time is hard to get now. She extended an olive branch and he didn't want it.
I don't react to him but like I said I just swallow it all. He was the person I always used to talk to and now I feel like I don't have any one. I have my kids but they have their own problems and I don't like to dump on them.
Ella Bella said
Aug 15, 2016
Oh, and Jerry, please explain the fear factor if you can.
Mirandac said
Aug 15, 2016
Take care of yourself as best as you can this is a Long soul
searching journey. It does get better as you Get better And
work the program for yourself. I could not fix my ex or my
marriage. I needed to hand him over to the Care of God.
I do hope you find the doors of alanon and dive into the
Program. Its really a spiritual program of healing and
Self Growth.
HUGS
Mattie said
Aug 15, 2016
Mints, slurring, falling asleep ... that doesn't sound like dry drunk syndrome to me, that sounds like drunk drunk syndrome. Generally dry drunk syndrome is when someone stops drinking but doesn't do the rest of recovery, so they keep acting like a drunk, just without the drunkenness. But after your husband stopped drinking, you had some good times and it sounds like some genuine stability and reasonable behavior on his part. So he would be unlikely just to slip back into weird behavior - unless his addictions were starting up again. I was going to suggest drugs until you mentioned the mints. I sure am familiar with the mints. They think the mints fools us, don't they? As if they have nothing to hide. But the mints practically scream I am hiding the fact that I have been drinking!
I am not trying to tell you what to do, but you mention that you did move out before and now you are living back with him because you cannot afford to live separately. If that is the case, a lawyer would be able to advise you about alimony. It sounds as if you haven't been able to work and he has been providing housing and other financial support. So alimony would cover that.
I know alimony sounds old-fashioned, but my own lawyer told me that I would be subject to alimony since I supported my husband for a while (because he was too drunk to make any money, but that's another story). Fortunately my husband was too broke and cheap to hire his own lawyer, and so it never occurred to him to ask for it - because my own lawyer made it clear that he would have gotten it.
Anyway, what I'm trying to say is that there may be more options for you than it seems, and that you might not have to live with him and endure this if you decide you don't want to. But my hunch is that this fits the profile of a man who, tragically, has made the decision to start drinking again. The "good" news is that typically they can't hide it for long, so the truth should become clearer as time goes on.
I hope you will take good care of yourself.
Ella Bella said
Aug 15, 2016
Yes Mattie, I know. He was a dry drunk for over a year and I recently began seeing the drinking symptoms again. Just the past month or two. It's not every day, just occasionally. I see it though. And yes, the mints scream louder than the beer breath. His behavior is still the same, regardless. I'm sure he'll crash again eventually. It might take years though.
I saw a lawyer a year ago, cannot afford him. I was a paralegal though so I do know what I am entitled to. My husband has a lawyer and they have asked for my list. That was a year ago though. I filed for divorce but we put it on hold for the past year. I know what I want and what I have to have to survive. If I don't get it, I don't go. Simple. If he wants me to go he can pay up. It will wipe out his retirement and equity in the house, but not my problem. He is destroying my life, my health and my peace of mind. I will be giving up everything that I worked hard for. The amount of cruelty that can come from one person is unreal. I never did anything to hurt him and neither did my son. He pretty much destroyed him too. That's my fault though. I didn't get us out when I should have.
a4l said
Aug 15, 2016
Ella Bella, I've been alive as long as you've been married and I'm sorry to read of your troubles. It sounds heartbreaking. I hope you find a way through this, 34 years and children and commitment, its not right you shouldn't be entitled to the nest egg as well as some happiness and warmth.
Jerry F said
Aug 16, 2016
I was gonna PM this to you and thought it kinda sorta selfish. Fear is the Acronym for
F alse
E evidence
A appearing
R eal
meaning that our sick minds manufacture it and then we buy it as if it were true. It is very usual in the disease that this happens on both sides of the relationship. They do the same things we do and they also drink. They have the booze and we have the boozer. If I actually look at the picture rationally I am in better shape than she is/was because she was under the influence of a mind and mood altering chemical that was un-natural while I was under a chemical produced by my body...adrenalin and testosterone and such. Neither of us have the advantage while we let our minds produce that false evidence. I learned to turn it over to my Higher Power and the program and my sponsor which helped me sort the evidence out while letting the alcoholic/addict try to find her own path. In love and service. ((((hugs))))
Ella Bella said
Aug 16, 2016
Does Al-Anon help you to make the break? That's where my problem is. It makes me angry that I can't just let go of him after all he's done. I should hate him. My son made the break although I know it was hard and continues to be. His fiance tells me that he says things like, "I'll never cook out with my dad again". I know he mourns the loss too and still holds on to anger, but he was able to get out and move on. I just keep taking it. I know I deserve better.
I am in constant 'fight or flight' mode, always like a deer in the headlights. I don't remember what calm feels like.
Jerry F said
Aug 16, 2016
For me that is what the Al-Anon Family Groups are about and what it has helped me do since 1979 right up to this minute..."make the break"; detach and let go; come to believe that a power greater than ourselves can restore us to sanity and much, much more. The lessons for me are best learned inside of the room in the face to face meetings as we share of experiences, strengths and hopes.
I learned how to do what I do by listening to others share and then duplicating the behaviors which worked for them that I hoped would work for me... and they did. Our program is called "social model therapy" by the professionals, the psychologists and the psychiatrists. Those who are going thru the trauma and who have learned how to change/adapt from others with the same experiences become teacher/students and what works for them works for others.
When I learned to recognize a dry drunk in process I also recognized what would work for me and what would not...I actively chose what would work whenever I would and if I would not I might leave or call someone in the program like my sponsor or such...these were different behaviors than what I use to do which would accelerated the condition. It wasn't about winning, it was about staying sane and in respect and love with my alcoholic/addict and not the disease. My wife had the disease...she wasn't the disease. This is a sickness like other fatal sicknesses and coming to accept that was miraculous.
Keep coming back ...hope this helped. ((((hugs))))
Ella Bella said
Aug 16, 2016
I think that is where I have a problem....seeing it as a disease. My sister that died was also an alcoholic. My mom was/is in a situation where she needed a lot of help. My sister was no where to be found. I had to do it all. I have Lupus and have had many physical problems because of it. She would write me messages and tell me that she couldn't help because she had a 'disease'. I always got so angry because she used hers for an excuse; I didn't. Not only that, I saw her killing herself and I saw that she had choices. She could choose to control that 'disease'; I could not. We were both losing a battle and she HAD choices. I was dealing with both her and my husband at the same time for years and they were both killing me. Neither of them helped and only made things much worse by yelling at me all the time. I didn't deserve any of it.
When my husband first got sober, he was so happy that he cried those first few weeks. One night I started laughing about something and he started to cry. He said, "I never thought I'd hear you laugh again". That was one of my favorite moments. He was here, emotionally and spiritually, after being absent for so long. He worked hard at recovery and started losing weight like crazy. He began walking our dogs faithfully; he said it gave him something to focus on instead of drinking. He looked great! He read all about alcoholism and the sugar connection, and he avoided sugar. Around the time that he started the spiral last year, he also started eating cookies and ice cream like crazy. He would keep a constant stock and eat junk all evening. Soon after, he became someone that none of us knew. He is still a sugar junkie and has gained the weight back...about 50 pounds. He quit walking the dogs. Now he is hooked on come online computer game that must be played at certain times of the day. It's a team game and he won't miss it (unless he's working). Life stops when it's game time. It's like he has to have some obsession all the time.
He quit speaking to me three days ago because of a really stupid incident. We were watching TV and our dogs needed water. He got up to get it and I asked him to please use water from my new water filter pitcher instead of the sink. He said no. I told him it was no extra work, you just pour the water into the bowls and he ignored me and used the tap. I didn't argue because you don't argue with him. He came back in, sat down and looked at me. I guess he didn't like my body posture because he jumped up and said he was going to bed. It was 8:30. He hasn't spoken to me since. He left this morning for a trip, so I don't have to deal with it for a few days.
Mattie said
Aug 16, 2016
His underlying tendency to become dependent on alcohol is not something he chose - that's where I see the disease. How he chooses to address that is his decision, as much as a diabetic choosing to use insulin or gorge on cake is a decision. And whether to be mature or petty and nasty is a decision. I don't see the disease model as giving them license to do whatever they want with no consequences. It just means that when we look at the big picture, we can feel compassion for their struggles. It certainly does not mean we have to approve of their painful behavior - or stick around for it if we decide leaving would be a better choice.
A long time ago I was in a relationship with a guy with epilepsy. Of course he couldn't control being born with epilepsy. But he used that as an excuse to order people around ("You have to drive me to the airport at 5 am because I can't drive because I have epilepsy"), with no politeness, no consideration for other people. And then he decided he could control epilepsy by willpower alone. What this meant was that he started having seizures when I was alone with him and half scared me to death. He had stopped taking his medicine. Then he started blaming me for the seizures ("If you hadn't complained so much, I wouldn't have been upset and had a seizure, so it's your fault.") Things were already not going well, but that's the point where I left. The epilepsy wasn't his fault. All the other things were totally within his control. And if he had a hard time coping with the epilepsy emotionally, getting therapy was a choice he could have made. I see the alcoholic as pretty much like this.
Ella Bella said
Aug 16, 2016
You're right. I get that. That is exactly how he is. Everything is my fault. He won't take responsibility for anything. It's like he forgot everything he learned at AA. Blame blame. He once burned his hand while taking something out of the oven and blamed me. I was in another room. My daughter was here and couldn't believe it.
I keep wondering if he knows he screwed up with me and our kids, but can't face it. He hides from it because he's in denial and his ego won't allow him to take the blame. I wonder if he really wants his family back but doesn't know what to do about it without losing face. He was so humble when he stopped drinking, now he is so arrogant. It would be a real tragedy if we all go through the rest of our lives apart because he just can't face what he did. The longer it goes on, the worse it gets.
Thank you for your help.
Jerry F said
Aug 16, 2016
"We admitted we were powerless over alcohol and that our lives had become unmanageable". I had to work this step over and over and over until it became second nature to me to understand that it was alcoholism that my wife and I and the family were suffering from and not anything else. "We came to understand..." thru working the program as suggested. I came to hate the disease and unconditionally love my alcoholic/addict ....what a miracle that became for me and then for her also. We came to understand so many things that HP pulled the covers off of and the program rewards us with blessings like this daily. We have to keep coming back with an open mind and a desire to find help as the closing statement of our face to face meetings tell us. Alcoholism is a disease of the mind, body, spirit and emotions sometimes one at a time and sometimes all at one time at the same time. I stopped hating the sick person. (((hugs)))
Ella Bella said
Aug 17, 2016
I don't hate the sick person. I wish I could, and that is the problem. I keep loving him. At what point does that make me a fool?
I think I want to try once again to talk to him and ask him to go back to AA. I haven't mentioned it for about 9 months because he gets instantly defensive and very angry. He immediately tells me that I am the one with the problem. I don't know how to best appeal to him. Months ago, I don't think he was drinking so it was easier for him to conclude that since he wasn't drinking, he was fine. Now that he is drinking once in a while, he might acknowledge to himself on some level that I'm right. Finding the right words will be hard. He refuses to talk to me about anything except our dogs and TV shows. That's been going on for a year. No communication allowed. If I write him a note, he refuses to read it, even if it's positive.
Iamhere said
Aug 17, 2016
Ella Bella - I pleaded, begged, talked, yelled, cried until I was blue in the face. Our side of the program tells us to work on ourselves, focus on ourselves and stop trying to fix them. I know as do all others how hard it is to watch someone you love self-destruct with the disease. You have choices and can detach when you are ready to work on you.
There are no right words. There are no new ways for him to hear you. He needs to get to his bottom on his own and until/unless that happens, the merry-go-round continues. I really encourage you to get to some meetings, get your hands on some literature and see if you can't change your focus from him to you. That's where the peace comes in! We develop irrational expectations, thoughts and patterns to deal with the disease.
Keep coming back!
Ella Bella said
Aug 17, 2016
Iamhere:
I know. I did the pleading, yelling, crying thing too for seven years. I threatened to leave numerous times. NOTHING worked. You know what did? Strangest thing. We had just bought a new puppy (our third dog) and had her for just a few weeks. It was a stupid thing to do at the time because it made it even harder for me to leave. One desperate morning before he was leaving for a 5 day trip, I told him that I was going to sell the puppy. The look on his face was horror and total shock. He told me to please not do that. While he was gone, he was afraid I'd do it. Two days later, he sent me a FB PM that said he knew he had a drinking problem and he promised to go to AA. I didn't believe him, but he did. Later he told me that he couldn't stand the thought that someone else might abuse that little dog and not give her the life that he knew we would (other than the stress from all the fighting that they endure). We are dog lovers.
Anyway, something got to him. The difference between now and then though is that now he is very emotionally detached. I can't seem to reach him with emotions - he doesn't have any. Before he got sober, I knew I'd have a rational person in the mornings and a monster in the evenings. The rational person just isn't there at all. That is what scares me the most. Any attempt will be a last ditch effort and I know that. I can't keep spending every day of my life depressed, shaking and feeling despair. I truly feel like I have no future. None. Not just because of him, but because of my health which is getting worse. It's going to be very hard to move on because I have physical limitations. I can't seem to do what I need to do to take care of myself because of him and the needs of my mother. I feel like I don't matter.
There is a meeting tomorrow night. If I am up to it, I'm going to try to go. I've had bronchitis/fevers for two weeks so doing anything is a chore. I really want to do this though.
Iamhere said
Aug 17, 2016
Ella Bella - my prayer for you is that you make you the priority and get to that meeting! You don't have to dress up - they will accept you in your PJs.....just show up - for me, getting to the meeting was the hardest part. Once there, with an open mind and a broken heart, I heard some things that really gave me small amounts of hope.
It sounds as if his disease has progressed. I had to get out of the way and allow mine to hit their bottom. Know that we're here for you!
Jen61 said
Aug 17, 2016
This is a great site. Going to face to face meetings are good and even going to AA meetings. Where I use to live there was a speaker meeting every saturday. I would go and listen to hear what the alcoholic would talk about. It all helped me. My husband was furious when I went to my first meeting, but I did it. Each week it got easier and easier. Maybe you could go when your husband is traveling. Take care of YOU.
Ella Bella said
Aug 17, 2016
Thanks. The meetings are Tuesday mornings and Thursday evenings. I don't care if he knows I'm going. I told him I was going to. He said "I told you to go a long time ago and you wouldn't do it then". He did suggest it back when he began AA 2 1/2 years ago, but he was in such a good place that I didn't feel the need. I do now. I know now that I should have gone back then because I might have learned that he HAD to maintain his sobriety. When he quit AA, I didn't object. He was on top of the world. If I had known, I could have encouraged him to stick with it.
My first clue that something was wrong was when he told me, a year after he'd stopped drinking, that he had a glass of wine at a business dinner. He said that he thought it was okay to do that every once in a while, because he could have just one and stop. I said, "Do you want to run that logic by AA"? He verbally agreed with me, but I got the feeling he was going to keep doing it. One month later all hell broke loose and he got the alcoholic mind back. I don't think he was drinking very often at all at that point, but he thought he could.
Oh yeah, he's progressed. He's so far gone that I'm afraid he will never come back. This is scary.
Iamhere said
Aug 17, 2016
Ella Bella - the program has given me the ability to let go of my past regrets/mistakes. There is no guilt in something we should have, wished we had, etc. - it's past and done with - you've learned and that's what growing/recovery is all about. We learn what we need/want from life and we work the program to align ourselves with a higher power and a better way of living.
You will not regret going to the meeting - just keep an open mind and go! For all the goodness you saw in recovery for your guy - that's what is waiting for you. Recovery saved me and my sanity and gave me the tools to be serene and happy - no matter what my qualifer(s) doing or not doing.
Keep coming back - you are worth it!
Ella Bella said
Aug 18, 2016
One thing I do know....I have to stop allowing him to bully me and make me feel inferior. I have to stop allowing him to intimidate me and I have to stand up for myself. For the past year, I've stayed silent and let him trample me. His explosions, extremely loud voice and 'in my face' tactics have to stop. I've never felt so much hate coming from a person. He has grandiose tenancies and makes me feel like I'm beneath him. I just shut up and put up. God if his family and friends could only see how he treats me! He plays a totally different role outside of these walls.
Mirandac said
Aug 18, 2016
Its called stop being a doormat, that took me awhile and
Plenty of FTF meetings to get there, by the time my xah
Left me i was no longer one and much stronger to cope
With all that came afterward.
Nobody will tell you what to do about your marriage those
Are personal choices. The wisdom is to wait 6-12 months
While attending alanon ftf mtgs Before making any major
changes. Things could improve and also you get stronger
And start to focus on yourself and start your healing and
Growing journey.
((((((( ella bella ))))
Ella Bella said
Aug 18, 2016
I just have to figure out how to manage not being the doormat. The meeting is in two hours. I printed directions. First step. My biggest fear right now is finding the right door to go into. Ridiculous!
Mirandac said
Aug 18, 2016
Sending you a big hug, you do not need to speak until you are
Ready. Generally there are newcomers packets and sometimes
A free book "how alanon works" and maybe a welcome coin. I
Just sat and cried from all my pain, hurt and frustrations i cried
Up to when the divorce was final. It was an Intense pain filled
Time and journey.
(((((( ella bella )))))))
Jerry F said
Aug 18, 2016
Ella you don't need outside proof that he and the disease is treating you badly cause you are now a member of a earthly wide family who has the experiences (yours) of what it like...we are convince you are being treated like crap and we know that is what the disease does...it trashes people including the drinker. You know now more about what it is and what it does than he does however it is not your position to teach. It is your responsibility to be taught and you are learning very well. Have a good meeting...listen with an open mind and learn and bring back the lessons with you while you practice. HP be with you....((((hugs))))
Ella Bella said
Aug 18, 2016
I figured crying was going to be part of it. I have the kleenex ready to go.
I wish people knew so that they would realize that he needs help. I think he drinks wine with family members and has them convinced that he is fine. He had two alcoholic brothers who have both passed away, but the family doesn't seem to understand alcoholism. They have not had to actually live with it. All they know is that it's frustrating to have a conversation with a drunk, but they never saw the violence or the verbal abuse. They don't understand the sickness and to know that they probably contribute to it is hard to handle, especially since they think I am the bad guy. He's told them stories from his warped perspective. He needs support all around.
Mirandac said
Aug 18, 2016
Its the family disease of alcoholism and there is a Lot to
learn ahead. Alanon is mainly about you and focusing On
you and you getting better.
((((((( ella bella ))))))))))
Ella Bella said
Aug 18, 2016
15 minutes until I have to head out the door.
Iamhere said
Aug 18, 2016
You got this Ella Bella - you got this!!! (((Hugs)))
Ella Bella said
Aug 18, 2016
I did it. I was 10 minutes late because I couldn't find the church, but I made it. It was a small group, only six people including me, but they said that is unusual. Two women dominated the whole meeting and I wasn't impressed, but I'm not going to judge based on one meeting. They promised serenity and I'm going to try to get it! I have literature to read.
I realized on the way home that I have three main goals:
1. Stop allowing myself to be bullied, belittled and battled.
2. Try to break my emotional bond with him by learning to value myself.
3. Learn to stop mourning what will never be (a happy future with him).
Is that realistic?
Iamhere said
Aug 18, 2016
Ella Bella - good on you for going! I am hopeful your next meeting will be better - remember to keep an open mind and look for the similarities vs. the differences. That helped me find value in every meeting I went to once I settled in.
I believe your goals are outstanding - one thought on the 3rd - perhaps simplify it to work on just letting go of the past and trusting in recovery for now. I have seen miracles in recovery - both sides of the table - so I never ever try to establish goals around projection or expectations (good or bad).
Keep coming back and enjoy your literature! It's been very helpful to me - I am a visual learner so listening for me has to be planned and practiced. Having information in black/white seems to 'stick' better to my brain - but that's just me! We are all different in how we learn and process.
You're doing great - great self-care getting to the meeting - is there more than one in your area? You can always try another - the more meetings for me in the beginning, the more peaceful moments I found....just a thought!
Ella Bella said
Aug 18, 2016
Thank you all so much! I feel like I'm hogging your time. I am an Admin for a medical forum though and have spent years talking people through a difficult time. One thing I know is that I wouldn't do it if I didn't want to, so I'll forego the guilt here.
Iamhere - you gave me hope with your change to my #3, but I'm afraid to hope. I told another member in a PM that I realized this week that I thought hope was my life preserver, but in reality, it has been an anchor (hope for a future with him). I keep hanging onto that hope instead of allowing myself to move forward. I need to start seeing hope for me, not hope for us because that is what is holding me back. I'd love nothing more than a miracle, it happened once, but as long as I see hope for us, I'm stuck. I'm afraid if I start to move on a separate path, that is the path I will take. I don't want to keep swerving like I've done for years. I need a direction.
He has made it perfectly clear that he wants out of the marriage. He's been saying that for a year. Everything is my fault. A month after he kept screaming that he wanted a divorce, I filed. Every once in a while he throws that in my face...."Well you're the one that filed for divorce!"....like it was my idea. We've just let it hang there in the records, haven't continued the procedure. We agreed to give it some time but a year has gone by with no change. It's been the worst year of my life. He seemed to just resign himself to the fact that he's stuck with me because I don't have the means to leave. When I try to discuss giving me money to leave, he gets angry and doesn't want to talk about it. Stuck.
I've been writing about all of this for two and a half years. It's now a book. I'm thinking of trying to get it published; if there is ever an end.
Yes, there are more meetings in my area. I'd have to look them up. This was the closest one and I had trouble finding it.
Ella Bella said
Aug 18, 2016
Oh, and I ordered three books on Amazon tonight.
Abba05 said
Aug 19, 2016
Ella, Not everyone thrives in AA....I do NOT mean to offend...we ALL have our own qualifiers in our lives and are not the same, AA, Alanon, Na, ....WHATEVER.
I have read that private, personal counseling sometimes is more effective because, for one reason, they don't get side-tracked by everyone elses' stories and/or saying the right thing in front of a group. Returning to AA can be very depressing to some, like admitting failure (ego-smashing, for ex., as explained in AA membership). Just a suggestion from a stranger, but I feel for your struggle. It's hard to find help "off the beaten path" with these issues, at times!
I've been married for 34 years. In 2006, my husband started drinking heavily and it spiraled until he drank every day starting first thing in the morning. I only found out about it because I put a GPS in his car and tracked him for a week. Living with him was hell. He had constant anger outbursts and my son and I walked on egg shells. I didn't leave because I kept hoping he would change; this wasn't who he was. He managed to hold on to his job, he is the boss and basically makes his own schedule. He travels a lot during the week so we got breaks from the emotional abuse.
This went on for seven years and one day, he admitted that he had a problem and decided to stop drinking. That was two and a half years ago. He went to AA and threw himself into recovery. He became an amazing person and our relationship grew strong and healthy. We did everything together and had great times with our three adult kids. We had never been so happy. He surprised us all with a wonderful family vacation and bought me a brand new car out of the blue one day. After that, he suddenly began to spiral down and within two months, our whole family was blown apart.
During the spiral, I noticed that he stopped saying goodbye when he left. He would just walk out. He didn't listen to me when I was talking, he would actually walk out of the room when I was in mid-sentence. He started to yell at me over stupid things and tell me that I was never happy with anything that he did. He started sleeping in the spare bedroom. I saw him start to emotionally detach himself from me but still didn't realize how serious it was. I made the mistake of trusting him. I thought he might be cheating but after checking his phone and computer, I found nothing. One day out of the blue, he told me that we needed to find an 'exit strategy' and basically told me to get out of the house. He asked me to give him the passwords for all of the bills and totally cut off my money supply. I had to quit my job a few years ago due to health issues so I had no income. I was selling my jewelry to survive.
I stayed with my daughter for a few weeks, but had to keep coming home to stay with our three dogs when he went on a work trip. The back and forth was getting exhausting both physically and emotionally, so I moved back in. I didn't have the money to keep going back and forth. I applied for spousal support at Domestic Relations even though I was living at home because I still have expenses; medical, medications, credit cards, car payment, car insurance, food, etc. That scared him and he agreed to start giving me money. One day my son came home from golfing and my husband exploded because he didn't cut the grass. He kicked him out of the house. My son was in college and had a part time job that only covered his expenses. He had no where to go and no money to survive. That made everything so much worse and divided relationships with my two daughters also.
My husband started telling lies to family and friends about what happened and it divided our extended family as well. No one outside of this house knows the truth about him. He covers up well. No one sees the monster that he has become. It's been a year since all this happened and nothing has changed. I'm still living here because I don't have the money to move out. We eat and watch TV together when we are speaking but the only safe subject I can talk about is the dogs. If I talk about anything else, he explodes. He is selfish and so emotionally detached from me and the kids it's unreal. He hasn't seen our son in over a year. He's only seen our daughter three times and the other daughter once (she lives in another state though). My son is getting married in 3 months and he has not made any attempt to connect with him before the wedding. I cannot talk about the wedding or mention my sons' name. My husband has even told me on numerous occasions that if I cared about him, I would stand on his side and not attend the wedding. I told him that the problem is between him and my son, not me and my son. My sister died suddenly a few months ago and he was not able to get back from a trip in time to attend the viewing. He screamed at me and didn't talk to me for a month.
I have tried asking him to go back to AA, but he doesn't think he has a problem. He is worse now than when he was drinking. He thinks he is being rational but he put himself on a high horse and treats us like we are beneath him. He tries to control everything, even going so far as making me turn out all lights at night to save electricity. The house was pitch black and I asked him to leave light on so I didn't trip and fall if I got up at night. He said no and a few nights later, I did trip over a dog and hit the floor. The stress is unreal. We've owned this house for 19 years and he acts like it's his house and he just allows me to live here. It was always OURS. The money was always OURS. Everything is his now.
I know I should leave. I plan to, but it's going to take time. I have to get my credit rating up so I can buy a house because I have to be able to have my dogs. I am slowly paying off my credit cards and trying to save. In the meantime, it would be nice if a miracle occurred and he realized that he is a Dry Drunk. I do think he is drinking again here and there. I see the signs....mints, falling asleep early, snoring, slurring words, facial expressions....
Any advice?
The best suggestion I have is to go to some Al-Anon meetings. You will find others who will share their ESH (Experience, Strength & Hope) with you and where you will find support. Read around here too and you'll learn more about the disease and the diseased. There is nothing you can do that will change him or what he does, but you certainly can change you and how you react to it.
Keep coming back - you are not alone!
Face to face alanon meetings will help you, to deal
with all of your issues as you work the program and
The steps. Alanon is for us to get Better and live a
spiritual way of life regardless of what the A is doing
or not doing.
I have my own issues with my xah's unresolved problems,
Who knows where his thinking is coming from, my xah was
acting badly and i needed to get away and self protect and find
Some Peace. I have found peace in this program, he attends
AA so i do pray for his soul, his choices, his life. He has been
Dry for 30 years.
I just sat and listened, learned and absorbed at my mtgs for a
long Time. I come from dysfunction and alcoholism as many
Others before me. So we literally have a life time to recover
From. Alanon is about us healing our wounds and living a
Healthier and saner lifestyle.
(((((((( ella )))))))))
He has all of the symptoms of a narcissist and I'm talking about the psychological term, not the general word used to describe someone who posts too many selfies. I've thought of Al-Anon and can't find any meetings in my area. I even asked my husband to look because he had a website that listed the AA meetings. He couldn't find any either. You're right though, I cant break my attachment no matter what he does. We had many great years and many wonderful memories. We've been together since I was 16 years old. He was a good father and loved his kids. I just don't understand this no matter how hard I try. I've become so good at not reacting to him that I keep everything inside. I don't fight back any more and haven't for a long time. All that does is give him ammunition to use against me....he makes me out to be crazy when all I'm doing is reacting to his craziness. Of course he leaves that part out. At the beginning of all of this, he kept calling me a psycho and relayed that to people we knew. He was the one who broke down our bedroom door and exploded all the time. I live each day just trying to keep peace.
www.al-anon.org/find-a-meeting
Hugs
Aloha Ella Bella and welcome to the board. Suggestion is that there are two online meetings here daily with in the eastern time zone which I have heard nothing but good about...I am in the Pacific Time zone so rarely get to the online groups.
Dry Drunk Syndrome...yeppers!! have seen and heard from it and at that those times would have bet good money that the person was drinking. Everything is the same with the exception of the booze and I made a study of it as a alcoholism/Drug addiction therapist. The spouses of the Dry Drunk Drunk go as mad or worse because now they loose the opportunity to blame the booze and they forget they do have an alcoholic right there in front of them.
Same program applies for me whether she was drinking and using or not and once I learned that I also was responding in the same way as if she was drinking and using I knew what my problem was...I was "acting as if" and should have been acting as if it was not. I detached and didn't participate and followed a guidance my then sponsor taught me, "Don't react". I slowed everything down for me. I assessed and responded (not reacted) more slowly and then responded, if I did at all, with understanding and compassion and that means I didn't baby her or enable her behaviors, thoughts and feelings ...she got to own those all without me getting in the way. You can do the same. Believe me your husband is sensing and seeing everything thru fear...his brain is seeing all of the "False Evidence Appearing Real" and believing it while he should not. I am a double; Alcoholic and Al-Anon member and fully understand Step Two and why the last word of that step is SANITY.
You can contact the AFG.org on line and ask them about meetings where you are at...meetings are registered and you might not be aware.
Keep coming back, this works when you work it...looking online for Al-Anon Literature also. ((((Hugs))))
Jerry, thanks for the vindication. While he was doing well, I did forget that I had an alcoholic husband. He was a better version of himself than I'd ever seen. He seemed so happy and appeared to find the key to peace and happiness. I envied him, but it didn't last. His backward slide is all my fault, of course. He keeps saying that he changed but I didn't. He set up some invisible expectations of me that I wasn't aware of and when I didn't meet them, he decided to toss me out. At that time, he was back to his paranoid, miserable, toxic self and I find it ironic that the abusive alcoholic expected change from a wife who stuck by him through everything. I still don't know what changes he expected. He was my best friend and I can't stop mourning the loss. He seems to have no attachment to any memories that we shared. It's like he wiped everything out and has no emotion except anger. I wonder if he really feels that way or if it is a defense mechanism.
I mentioned above that he's only seen our daughter three times in a year. She only comes over when he is away on trips. She came over the other day though knowing he was local and would be home after work. We were outside in the pool when he got here. He walked over to her, said hello, chatted for a few minutes then went inside to play a computer game. Totally snubbed her. He could have changed his clothes and joined us. She couldn't believe it. Neither could I. I treasure every moment with our kids....time is hard to get now. She extended an olive branch and he didn't want it.
I don't react to him but like I said I just swallow it all. He was the person I always used to talk to and now I feel like I don't have any one. I have my kids but they have their own problems and I don't like to dump on them.
searching journey. It does get better as you Get better And
work the program for yourself. I could not fix my ex or my
marriage. I needed to hand him over to the Care of God.
I do hope you find the doors of alanon and dive into the
Program. Its really a spiritual program of healing and
Self Growth.
HUGS
Mints, slurring, falling asleep ... that doesn't sound like dry drunk syndrome to me, that sounds like drunk drunk syndrome. Generally dry drunk syndrome is when someone stops drinking but doesn't do the rest of recovery, so they keep acting like a drunk, just without the drunkenness. But after your husband stopped drinking, you had some good times and it sounds like some genuine stability and reasonable behavior on his part. So he would be unlikely just to slip back into weird behavior - unless his addictions were starting up again. I was going to suggest drugs until you mentioned the mints. I sure am familiar with the mints. They think the mints fools us, don't they? As if they have nothing to hide. But the mints practically scream I am hiding the fact that I have been drinking!
I am not trying to tell you what to do, but you mention that you did move out before and now you are living back with him because you cannot afford to live separately. If that is the case, a lawyer would be able to advise you about alimony. It sounds as if you haven't been able to work and he has been providing housing and other financial support. So alimony would cover that.
I know alimony sounds old-fashioned, but my own lawyer told me that I would be subject to alimony since I supported my husband for a while (because he was too drunk to make any money, but that's another story). Fortunately my husband was too broke and cheap to hire his own lawyer, and so it never occurred to him to ask for it - because my own lawyer made it clear that he would have gotten it.
Anyway, what I'm trying to say is that there may be more options for you than it seems, and that you might not have to live with him and endure this if you decide you don't want to. But my hunch is that this fits the profile of a man who, tragically, has made the decision to start drinking again. The "good" news is that typically they can't hide it for long, so the truth should become clearer as time goes on.
I hope you will take good care of yourself.
I saw a lawyer a year ago, cannot afford him. I was a paralegal though so I do know what I am entitled to. My husband has a lawyer and they have asked for my list. That was a year ago though. I filed for divorce but we put it on hold for the past year. I know what I want and what I have to have to survive. If I don't get it, I don't go. Simple. If he wants me to go he can pay up. It will wipe out his retirement and equity in the house, but not my problem. He is destroying my life, my health and my peace of mind. I will be giving up everything that I worked hard for. The amount of cruelty that can come from one person is unreal. I never did anything to hurt him and neither did my son. He pretty much destroyed him too. That's my fault though. I didn't get us out when I should have.
I was gonna PM this to you and thought it kinda sorta selfish. Fear is the Acronym for
F alse
E evidence
A appearing
R eal
meaning that our sick minds manufacture it and then we buy it as if it were true. It is very usual in the disease that this happens on both sides of the relationship. They do the same things we do and they also drink. They have the booze and we have the boozer. If I actually look at the picture rationally I am in better shape than she is/was because she was under the influence of a mind and mood altering chemical that was un-natural while I was under a chemical produced by my body...adrenalin and testosterone and such. Neither of us have the advantage while we let our minds produce that false evidence. I learned to turn it over to my Higher Power and the program and my sponsor which helped me sort the evidence out while letting the alcoholic/addict try to find her own path. In love and service. ((((hugs))))
I am in constant 'fight or flight' mode, always like a deer in the headlights. I don't remember what calm feels like.
For me that is what the Al-Anon Family Groups are about and what it has helped me do since 1979 right up to this minute..."make the break"; detach and let go; come to believe that a power greater than ourselves can restore us to sanity and much, much more. The lessons for me are best learned inside of the room in the face to face meetings as we share of experiences, strengths and hopes.
I learned how to do what I do by listening to others share and then duplicating the behaviors which worked for them that I hoped would work for me... and they did. Our program is called "social model therapy" by the professionals, the psychologists and the psychiatrists. Those who are going thru the trauma and who have learned how to change/adapt from others with the same experiences become teacher/students and what works for them works for others.
When I learned to recognize a dry drunk in process I also recognized what would work for me and what would not...I actively chose what would work whenever I would and if I would not I might leave or call someone in the program like my sponsor or such...these were different behaviors than what I use to do which would accelerated the condition. It wasn't about winning, it was about staying sane and in respect and love with my alcoholic/addict and not the disease. My wife had the disease...she wasn't the disease. This is a sickness like other fatal sicknesses and coming to accept that was miraculous.
Keep coming back ...hope this helped. ((((hugs))))
When my husband first got sober, he was so happy that he cried those first few weeks. One night I started laughing about something and he started to cry. He said, "I never thought I'd hear you laugh again". That was one of my favorite moments. He was here, emotionally and spiritually, after being absent for so long. He worked hard at recovery and started losing weight like crazy. He began walking our dogs faithfully; he said it gave him something to focus on instead of drinking. He looked great! He read all about alcoholism and the sugar connection, and he avoided sugar. Around the time that he started the spiral last year, he also started eating cookies and ice cream like crazy. He would keep a constant stock and eat junk all evening. Soon after, he became someone that none of us knew. He is still a sugar junkie and has gained the weight back...about 50 pounds. He quit walking the dogs. Now he is hooked on come online computer game that must be played at certain times of the day. It's a team game and he won't miss it (unless he's working). Life stops when it's game time. It's like he has to have some obsession all the time.
He quit speaking to me three days ago because of a really stupid incident. We were watching TV and our dogs needed water. He got up to get it and I asked him to please use water from my new water filter pitcher instead of the sink. He said no. I told him it was no extra work, you just pour the water into the bowls and he ignored me and used the tap. I didn't argue because you don't argue with him. He came back in, sat down and looked at me. I guess he didn't like my body posture because he jumped up and said he was going to bed. It was 8:30. He hasn't spoken to me since. He left this morning for a trip, so I don't have to deal with it for a few days.
His underlying tendency to become dependent on alcohol is not something he chose - that's where I see the disease. How he chooses to address that is his decision, as much as a diabetic choosing to use insulin or gorge on cake is a decision. And whether to be mature or petty and nasty is a decision. I don't see the disease model as giving them license to do whatever they want with no consequences. It just means that when we look at the big picture, we can feel compassion for their struggles. It certainly does not mean we have to approve of their painful behavior - or stick around for it if we decide leaving would be a better choice.
A long time ago I was in a relationship with a guy with epilepsy. Of course he couldn't control being born with epilepsy. But he used that as an excuse to order people around ("You have to drive me to the airport at 5 am because I can't drive because I have epilepsy"), with no politeness, no consideration for other people. And then he decided he could control epilepsy by willpower alone. What this meant was that he started having seizures when I was alone with him and half scared me to death. He had stopped taking his medicine. Then he started blaming me for the seizures ("If you hadn't complained so much, I wouldn't have been upset and had a seizure, so it's your fault.") Things were already not going well, but that's the point where I left. The epilepsy wasn't his fault. All the other things were totally within his control. And if he had a hard time coping with the epilepsy emotionally, getting therapy was a choice he could have made. I see the alcoholic as pretty much like this.
I keep wondering if he knows he screwed up with me and our kids, but can't face it. He hides from it because he's in denial and his ego won't allow him to take the blame. I wonder if he really wants his family back but doesn't know what to do about it without losing face. He was so humble when he stopped drinking, now he is so arrogant. It would be a real tragedy if we all go through the rest of our lives apart because he just can't face what he did. The longer it goes on, the worse it gets.
Thank you for your help.
"We admitted we were powerless over alcohol and that our lives had become unmanageable". I had to work this step over and over and over until it became second nature to me to understand that it was alcoholism that my wife and I and the family were suffering from and not anything else. "We came to understand..." thru working the program as suggested. I came to hate the disease and unconditionally love my alcoholic/addict ....what a miracle that became for me and then for her also. We came to understand so many things that HP pulled the covers off of and the program rewards us with blessings like this daily. We have to keep coming back with an open mind and a desire to find help as the closing statement of our face to face meetings tell us. Alcoholism is a disease of the mind, body, spirit and emotions sometimes one at a time and sometimes all at one time at the same time. I stopped hating the sick person. (((hugs)))
I think I want to try once again to talk to him and ask him to go back to AA. I haven't mentioned it for about 9 months because he gets instantly defensive and very angry. He immediately tells me that I am the one with the problem. I don't know how to best appeal to him. Months ago, I don't think he was drinking so it was easier for him to conclude that since he wasn't drinking, he was fine. Now that he is drinking once in a while, he might acknowledge to himself on some level that I'm right. Finding the right words will be hard. He refuses to talk to me about anything except our dogs and TV shows. That's been going on for a year. No communication allowed. If I write him a note, he refuses to read it, even if it's positive.
There are no right words. There are no new ways for him to hear you. He needs to get to his bottom on his own and until/unless that happens, the merry-go-round continues. I really encourage you to get to some meetings, get your hands on some literature and see if you can't change your focus from him to you. That's where the peace comes in! We develop irrational expectations, thoughts and patterns to deal with the disease.
Keep coming back!
I know. I did the pleading, yelling, crying thing too for seven years. I threatened to leave numerous times. NOTHING worked. You know what did? Strangest thing. We had just bought a new puppy (our third dog) and had her for just a few weeks. It was a stupid thing to do at the time because it made it even harder for me to leave. One desperate morning before he was leaving for a 5 day trip, I told him that I was going to sell the puppy. The look on his face was horror and total shock. He told me to please not do that. While he was gone, he was afraid I'd do it. Two days later, he sent me a FB PM that said he knew he had a drinking problem and he promised to go to AA. I didn't believe him, but he did. Later he told me that he couldn't stand the thought that someone else might abuse that little dog and not give her the life that he knew we would (other than the stress from all the fighting that they endure). We are dog lovers.
Anyway, something got to him. The difference between now and then though is that now he is very emotionally detached. I can't seem to reach him with emotions - he doesn't have any. Before he got sober, I knew I'd have a rational person in the mornings and a monster in the evenings. The rational person just isn't there at all. That is what scares me the most. Any attempt will be a last ditch effort and I know that. I can't keep spending every day of my life depressed, shaking and feeling despair. I truly feel like I have no future. None. Not just because of him, but because of my health which is getting worse. It's going to be very hard to move on because I have physical limitations. I can't seem to do what I need to do to take care of myself because of him and the needs of my mother. I feel like I don't matter.
There is a meeting tomorrow night. If I am up to it, I'm going to try to go. I've had bronchitis/fevers for two weeks so doing anything is a chore. I really want to do this though.
It sounds as if his disease has progressed. I had to get out of the way and allow mine to hit their bottom. Know that we're here for you!
My first clue that something was wrong was when he told me, a year after he'd stopped drinking, that he had a glass of wine at a business dinner. He said that he thought it was okay to do that every once in a while, because he could have just one and stop. I said, "Do you want to run that logic by AA"? He verbally agreed with me, but I got the feeling he was going to keep doing it. One month later all hell broke loose and he got the alcoholic mind back. I don't think he was drinking very often at all at that point, but he thought he could.
Oh yeah, he's progressed. He's so far gone that I'm afraid he will never come back. This is scary.
You will not regret going to the meeting - just keep an open mind and go! For all the goodness you saw in recovery for your guy - that's what is waiting for you. Recovery saved me and my sanity and gave me the tools to be serene and happy - no matter what my qualifer(s) doing or not doing.
Keep coming back - you are worth it!
Plenty of FTF meetings to get there, by the time my xah
Left me i was no longer one and much stronger to cope
With all that came afterward.
Nobody will tell you what to do about your marriage those
Are personal choices. The wisdom is to wait 6-12 months
While attending alanon ftf mtgs Before making any major
changes. Things could improve and also you get stronger
And start to focus on yourself and start your healing and
Growing journey.
((((((( ella bella ))))
Ready. Generally there are newcomers packets and sometimes
A free book "how alanon works" and maybe a welcome coin. I
Just sat and cried from all my pain, hurt and frustrations i cried
Up to when the divorce was final. It was an Intense pain filled
Time and journey.
(((((( ella bella )))))))
Ella you don't need outside proof that he and the disease is treating you badly cause you are now a member of a earthly wide family who has the experiences (yours) of what it like...we are convince you are being treated like crap and we know that is what the disease does...it trashes people including the drinker. You know now more about what it is and what it does than he does however it is not your position to teach. It is your responsibility to be taught and you are learning very well. Have a good meeting...listen with an open mind and learn and bring back the lessons with you while you practice. HP be with you....((((hugs))))
I wish people knew so that they would realize that he needs help. I think he drinks wine with family members and has them convinced that he is fine. He had two alcoholic brothers who have both passed away, but the family doesn't seem to understand alcoholism. They have not had to actually live with it. All they know is that it's frustrating to have a conversation with a drunk, but they never saw the violence or the verbal abuse. They don't understand the sickness and to know that they probably contribute to it is hard to handle, especially since they think I am the bad guy. He's told them stories from his warped perspective. He needs support all around.
learn ahead. Alanon is mainly about you and focusing On
you and you getting better.
((((((( ella bella ))))))))))
I realized on the way home that I have three main goals:
1. Stop allowing myself to be bullied, belittled and battled.
2. Try to break my emotional bond with him by learning to value myself.
3. Learn to stop mourning what will never be (a happy future with him).
Is that realistic?
I believe your goals are outstanding - one thought on the 3rd - perhaps simplify it to work on just letting go of the past and trusting in recovery for now. I have seen miracles in recovery - both sides of the table - so I never ever try to establish goals around projection or expectations (good or bad).
Keep coming back and enjoy your literature! It's been very helpful to me - I am a visual learner so listening for me has to be planned and practiced. Having information in black/white seems to 'stick' better to my brain - but that's just me! We are all different in how we learn and process.
You're doing great - great self-care getting to the meeting - is there more than one in your area? You can always try another - the more meetings for me in the beginning, the more peaceful moments I found....just a thought!
Iamhere - you gave me hope with your change to my #3, but I'm afraid to hope. I told another member in a PM that I realized this week that I thought hope was my life preserver, but in reality, it has been an anchor (hope for a future with him). I keep hanging onto that hope instead of allowing myself to move forward. I need to start seeing hope for me, not hope for us because that is what is holding me back. I'd love nothing more than a miracle, it happened once, but as long as I see hope for us, I'm stuck. I'm afraid if I start to move on a separate path, that is the path I will take. I don't want to keep swerving like I've done for years. I need a direction.
He has made it perfectly clear that he wants out of the marriage. He's been saying that for a year. Everything is my fault. A month after he kept screaming that he wanted a divorce, I filed. Every once in a while he throws that in my face...."Well you're the one that filed for divorce!"....like it was my idea. We've just let it hang there in the records, haven't continued the procedure. We agreed to give it some time but a year has gone by with no change. It's been the worst year of my life. He seemed to just resign himself to the fact that he's stuck with me because I don't have the means to leave. When I try to discuss giving me money to leave, he gets angry and doesn't want to talk about it. Stuck.
I've been writing about all of this for two and a half years. It's now a book. I'm thinking of trying to get it published; if there is ever an end.
Yes, there are more meetings in my area. I'd have to look them up. This was the closest one and I had trouble finding it.
Oh, and I ordered three books on Amazon tonight.
Ella, Not everyone thrives in AA....I do NOT mean to offend...we ALL have our own qualifiers in our lives and are not the same, AA, Alanon, Na, ....WHATEVER.
I have read that private, personal counseling sometimes is more effective because, for one reason, they don't get side-tracked by everyone elses' stories and/or saying the right thing in front of a group. Returning to AA can be very depressing to some, like admitting failure (ego-smashing, for ex., as explained in AA membership). Just a suggestion from a stranger, but I feel for your struggle. It's hard to find help "off the beaten path" with these issues, at times!