If Alcoholics say hurtful things, don't they regret it?
Aerin said
Jul 28, 2016
I am obviously on this board to understand my Abf and his actions. I am still baffled that they say hurtful things while drinking but next day seem to forget or play down what happen.( i no longer bring it up) Do they truly not see how they act and how can they possibly not be thinking in ths moment, omg I am acting like a fool. Does it really mess up the thought process that bad? If so, how can they ever really stop?
Mattie said
Jul 28, 2016
Many people don't see the impact of hurtful things, or feel justified about saying them - not just alcoholics. I've noticed that people who were brought up in families where lots of hurtful things were said have become so numb to them that they think it's the normal way of relating. And if you object, they just think you're overly sensitive. Plus, of course, people don't like to be told they're wrong. I think it takes a huge shift in perspective and awareness to come to see that your way of relating is hurtful. And a lot of maturity to acknowledge it. That goes especially for alcoholics, because the disease insists that everything is fine and dandy.
a4l said
Jul 29, 2016
I think we do things till they don't work anymore, both sides of the fence. Denial is a thick smothering thing. My ah sticks his head in the sand and it used to drive me so insane I was actually crazy. Keep coming back. Living with the that is hard.
milkwood said
Jul 29, 2016
Greetings Aerin,
Your question brought lots of things to the surface for me
I agree with a41 - denial is powerful. Everyone has some level of fragility in their ego and it is hard to acknowledge that one has lashed out, perhaps repeatedly, for no good reason. How difficult it must be to acknowledge that one's very real sense of what the the world is has been misplaced. Perhaps one feels shame about lashing out and that is such a difficult emotion to face up to, especially when self-esteem is already low. So much easier to take an anaesthetic or to justify that one's fear is real, or simply to go and hide under Linus's security blanket!
Yesterday I heard an interview with an aid worker who was trying hard to bring food to people who were starving in a war zone. Traumatic to say the least. He spoke extremely eloquently and with a great deal of care about the people he saw suffering but when the interviewer tried to ask him about his own feelings, his own situation, he could not even begin to address his own sense of his self or his situation. Not even his own hunger. These are very different circumstances of course, but sometimes I find it useful to look at different situations. I felt sympathy and recognition in this kind man's lost sense of self.
I lost my self for a while, and didn't even know it. I kept looking to my husband to 'get better.' I kept trying to figure him out and in doing so I managed to avoid looking at my own situation. One rare calm day I tried to remember myself as a more carefree person, what did I do to enjoy myself when I was younger, what dreams did I have for myself etc? Who was I and where had I gone?!!! (I am struck by how similar this is to my normal questioning of 'who is my husband and where has he gone!!! What a difference that pronoun made ! )
This led me to the conclusion that I would protect my self, starting with my self-esteem, that seemed important for me. I took time off from trying to change my husband and came to recognise that it was not my place to do that job anyway, however much my motives where rooted in his protection and my love for him. It came to seem more loving for me to believe that his choices were his to make. I felt better about myself thinking this way.
I shifted my focus. Yay!!! Another question I asked myself was 'what would I do if someone insulted me the way my husband did?' For me, that meant that I would walk away from insulting behaviour. That was my authentic reaction. I knew that I wouldn't engage with a stranger who was being mean to me so why would I accept it from someone I chose to marry?!!
My husband has been sober for nearly three years now and has, on recent occasions, spoken (very briefly) about feelings of shame. I get a sense that those emotions are very distressing and difficult for him. Just as it took me some time to acknowledge that I wasn't always the person I thought I was cracked up to be in my own mind as well.
Be gentle with yourself Aerin - you ask good questions.
el-cee said
Jul 29, 2016
I went to Alanon and learned more about the disease and as far as I know the drinker is wracked with guilt, anger, self pity, same as us who live with it really. When drunk this leaks out and adds to their guilt. Avoiding it next day is typical because its too much to face up to.
I learned to detach with love and that meant I stopped putting any weight on their words, so if the drinker calls me a name I know its coming from their own self loathing so why would I for a second consider their view as a possibility? Hope this makes sense.
I also learned that whenever I took any verbal abuse I was enabling it to continue and taking part in the persons misery, adding to it. So I set boundaries, I stopped being present if verbal abuse started. I just simply stated I would not accept it and I removed myself from the room. I done it often enough for them to get the message. This was good for me and also an added benefit is that when they have no person to vent like this then often they are faced with the truth of their behaviour and feelings and it kind of makes them take responsibility for it themselves.
Iamhere said
Jul 29, 2016
My experience is similar to el-cee's....I found my answers and more in working the program of Al-Anon and learned I had choices. I could sit and listen to crazy-talk, I could walk out to another room, I could respond/react, I could ....
Wondering how another feels, and/or why they do what they do was for me a huge part of my disease. In the program, I learned that no matter what another says, I will never know how they really feel on the inside unless they truly show me. This disease distorts our thoughts, beliefs, values and core - I am certain it destroys the active person.
We know there is no cure but there is recovery. The best things I heard early on were the three C's, be gentle with me, just breathe and keep my focus on me. Those carried me until the next meeting. Meetings were my sanity for a long while - seeing others practicing this program showed me there is hope always - no matter how despairing things appear.
Keep coming back Aerin - ODAT!
Aerin said
Jul 29, 2016
Thank you everyone. Good advice! I have definitely gotten better at leaving the room. I can sit there for awhile letting him vent about life or work or world issues (which he never complains about sober) but if it turns on me (he sure seems to have a few hidden resentments all of a sudden, uggg) I haven't done so well staying quiet. Eventually it hits a nerve and I start arguing my point back even though I know its pointless. And I did grow up in a family that argued a lot and (my parents fought endlessly) and my Abf grew up with no fighting parents but they were extreme alcoholics. So i have a lot of learning to do, even at 45. But I am trying.. last night I did argue one point but stopped and left room. Small steps. but I definitely understanding more and more how to handle things.
Aerin said
Jul 29, 2016
Also I have to learn not to get so angry inside because he does not see it the way I do. We can watch Intervention and he will say "What is wrong with these people getting addicted, bunch of losers". And I am thinking OMG how can you not see you do the same? My brain cannot figure out his brain and I have to learn this. I have to.
milkwood said
Jul 29, 2016
Well done Aerin.
I have a visual mind so would often picture a bejewelled, protective mesh around me and that made it easier for me not to react. Also I agree with El-cee, by reacting I was just rising to the bait and confirming my husband's view of himself and the world. I didn't want to see myself in that role!
Iamhere said
Jul 29, 2016
I agree - well done! Remember always....we are not about perfect - it's about progress - one day at a time.
It took me a while to realize that we (whomever that is, sober or not - alcoholic or not) can sit side by side watching a show or commercial, and we each have our own response to it. This fascinated me once I began to realize that we all value things differently - even raised in the same home.....
Great job - keep finding whatever tools you can to keep your peace - that's my goal each day!!
Bethany66 said
Jul 29, 2016
In my face to face meeting we are reading through How Alanon Works. We are at the part where Lois tells her story and explains the 12 Steps in relationship to her life. In one of the steps she said something to the effect of at one point she wished she could crawl inside Bill's head and turn the screws and dials and make him think normally, like her. We all chuckle at that because we can all see ourselves thinking we are the normal ones and wishing we could dial the A in to our brainwaves!! How much easier life would be! I hear Rex Harrison in My Fair Lady singing "If only a woman could be more like a man." I say if only he could be more like ME! :)
ttempleton said
Jul 31, 2016
My name is Trisha and I am new to this. My girlfriend is an alcoholic and things have been rough. One day she is so in love with my and the other days she's making fun of me and taking her bad day out on me. How do I get through it without her getting more angry and me getting more hurt
hotrod said
Jul 31, 2016
Aerin I believee that denial and self justificaton enables many to say and do whatever they want.
Trisha Alcoholism is a disease over which we are powerless --I suggest that you search out alanon face to face meetings and attend. Here you will receive the support and understanding you need in order to learn new tools to live by, as you rebuild your self esteem Keep coming back here as well.
Jen61 said
Aug 2, 2016
In my situation he just did not remember saying this or that. He was too drunk.
milkwood said
Aug 2, 2016
Hello Trisha, Welcome to MIP.
The behaviour that you describe drove me nuts! Reading here and learning about alcoholism helped me to realise that it wasn't about me - I had not done that much wrong (I strive to be human, that's all!).
Wow, you've asked a spot on question!!! I wish I knew all the answers! For me, I kept reminding myself that it takes two to tango and that I did not need to stay in a dance that I came to feel was cruel. So I stopped trying to keep the peace for someone else and focused on what made me feel more peaceful. It was patently obvious that I was not in control my husband's mood swings, nor should I be. I just reacted in the same way as I would to any stranger in the street who was rude to me - I didn't engage in an argument or self-justification because chances are that would escalate matters and I simply walked away from it to find something more interesting to do instead.
We have more choices than we know. I hope you can find an Alanon meeting near you. Sending ((((hugs))))
Many people don't see the impact of hurtful things, or feel justified about saying them - not just alcoholics. I've noticed that people who were brought up in families where lots of hurtful things were said have become so numb to them that they think it's the normal way of relating. And if you object, they just think you're overly sensitive. Plus, of course, people don't like to be told they're wrong. I think it takes a huge shift in perspective and awareness to come to see that your way of relating is hurtful. And a lot of maturity to acknowledge it. That goes especially for alcoholics, because the disease insists that everything is fine and dandy.
Your question brought lots of things to the surface for me
I agree with a41 - denial is powerful. Everyone has some level of fragility in their ego and it is hard to acknowledge that one has lashed out, perhaps repeatedly, for no good reason. How difficult it must be to acknowledge that one's very real sense of what the the world is has been misplaced. Perhaps one feels shame about lashing out and that is such a difficult emotion to face up to, especially when self-esteem is already low. So much easier to take an anaesthetic or to justify that one's fear is real, or simply to go and hide under Linus's security blanket!
Yesterday I heard an interview with an aid worker who was trying hard to bring food to people who were starving in a war zone. Traumatic to say the least. He spoke extremely eloquently and with a great deal of care about the people he saw suffering but when the interviewer tried to ask him about his own feelings, his own situation, he could not even begin to address his own sense of his self or his situation. Not even his own hunger. These are very different circumstances of course, but sometimes I find it useful to look at different situations. I felt sympathy and recognition in this kind man's lost sense of self.
I lost my self for a while, and didn't even know it. I kept looking to my husband to 'get better.' I kept trying to figure him out and in doing so I managed to avoid looking at my own situation. One rare calm day I tried to remember myself as a more carefree person, what did I do to enjoy myself when I was younger, what dreams did I have for myself etc? Who was I and where had I gone?!!! (I am struck by how similar this is to my normal questioning of 'who is my husband and where has he gone!!! What a difference that pronoun made !
This led me to the conclusion that I would protect my self, starting with my self-esteem, that seemed important for me. I took time off from trying to change my husband and came to recognise that it was not my place to do that job anyway, however much my motives where rooted in his protection and my love for him. It came to seem more loving for me to believe that his choices were his to make. I felt better about myself thinking this way.
I shifted my focus. Yay!!! Another question I asked myself was 'what would I do if someone insulted me the way my husband did?' For me, that meant that I would walk away from insulting behaviour. That was my authentic reaction. I knew that I wouldn't engage with a stranger who was being mean to me so why would I accept it from someone I chose to marry?!!
My husband has been sober for nearly three years now and has, on recent occasions, spoken (very briefly) about feelings of shame. I get a sense that those emotions are very distressing and difficult for him. Just as it took me some time to acknowledge that I wasn't always the person I thought I was cracked up to be in my own mind as well.
Be gentle with yourself Aerin - you ask good questions.
I went to Alanon and learned more about the disease and as far as I know the drinker is wracked with guilt, anger, self pity, same as us who live with it really. When drunk this leaks out and adds to their guilt. Avoiding it next day is typical because its too much to face up to.
I learned to detach with love and that meant I stopped putting any weight on their words, so if the drinker calls me a name I know its coming from their own self loathing so why would I for a second consider their view as a possibility? Hope this makes sense.
I also learned that whenever I took any verbal abuse I was enabling it to continue and taking part in the persons misery, adding to it. So I set boundaries, I stopped being present if verbal abuse started. I just simply stated I would not accept it and I removed myself from the room. I done it often enough for them to get the message. This was good for me and also an added benefit is that when they have no person to vent like this then often they are faced with the truth of their behaviour and feelings and it kind of makes them take responsibility for it themselves.
Wondering how another feels, and/or why they do what they do was for me a huge part of my disease. In the program, I learned that no matter what another says, I will never know how they really feel on the inside unless they truly show me. This disease distorts our thoughts, beliefs, values and core - I am certain it destroys the active person.
We know there is no cure but there is recovery. The best things I heard early on were the three C's, be gentle with me, just breathe and keep my focus on me. Those carried me until the next meeting. Meetings were my sanity for a long while - seeing others practicing this program showed me there is hope always - no matter how despairing things appear.
Keep coming back Aerin - ODAT!
I have a visual mind so would often picture a bejewelled, protective mesh around me and that made it easier for me not to react. Also I agree with El-cee, by reacting I was just rising to the bait and confirming my husband's view of himself and the world. I didn't want to see myself in that role!
It took me a while to realize that we (whomever that is, sober or not - alcoholic or not) can sit side by side watching a show or commercial, and we each have our own response to it. This fascinated me once I began to realize that we all value things differently - even raised in the same home.....
Great job - keep finding whatever tools you can to keep your peace - that's my goal each day!!
Trisha Alcoholism is a disease over which we are powerless --I suggest that you search out alanon face to face meetings and attend. Here you will receive the support and understanding you need in order to learn new tools to live by, as you rebuild your self esteem Keep coming back here as well.
The behaviour that you describe drove me nuts! Reading here and learning about alcoholism helped me to realise that it wasn't about me - I had not done that much wrong (I strive to be human, that's all!).
Wow, you've asked a spot on question!!! I wish I knew all the answers! For me, I kept reminding myself that it takes two to tango and that I did not need to stay in a dance that I came to feel was cruel. So I stopped trying to keep the peace for someone else and focused on what made me feel more peaceful. It was patently obvious that I was not in control my husband's mood swings, nor should I be. I just reacted in the same way as I would to any stranger in the street who was rude to me - I didn't engage in an argument or self-justification because chances are that would escalate matters and I simply walked away from it to find something more interesting to do instead.
We have more choices than we know. I hope you can find an Alanon meeting near you. Sending ((((hugs))))