So AH started at 8AM, I get home at 6PM and ignore the fact that he has been drunk all day. I was pleasant and we had a fairly decent conversation up until I slipped. I sort of joked about something that was a sensitive subject for him and all hell broke loose. I tried to apologize and leave the room, but he wasn't having any of it. The three sentences I said somehow turned into thirty, somehow I had called him names, made fun of him, everything was twisted and elaborated and thrown back at me repeatedly. I apologized again and it was as though I had said nothing. I became irritated and began arguing back with him. Stupid, I know; and so I left the room and went for a soak in the tub while he took the keys and left the house.
Two hours later I get several texts that made no sense and I finally figured out he went to a bar, parked his vehicle in an empty lot where it proceeded to get stuck in the mud. Thank you HP! He refused to tell me where he was until he had jogged to the end of our street. I took the car to meet him, and there the fool was running in full fury when his pants slipped and he went sprawling into the street. Stopped the car, offered to help him up and he refused. There he was rolling around in the street in his underwear, drunk looking like a fool and I said "stay in your hula hoop." So he crawled to the car and eventually got in. I went to bed and this morning he has almost nothing to say, and has missed work because of being stuck in the mud.
I know I screwed up making a jest, and arguing with a drunk. This afternoon when I called I admitted to him I shouldn't have gone there and I was wrong. He was drunk and angry again. Now he is furious that I didn't come and get him after the first garbled text.
Not only is he a big time drinker, he has PSTD and GAD (generalized anxiety disorder). He went all paranoid delusional for a while and I lived with some crazy stuff. He constantly thought the phones were bugged, and that the FBI was after him. He was treated and the delusions are gone. He is still paranoid and full of anxiety. I have dealt with this for three years now and I am sick and tired. Today he says he is going to quit his job, that people are dead to him because they are too much trouble. If that fool quits his job he loses his insurance that pays for his counseling, psychiatrist, and medications. I can Al-anon a lot of things, but I just can't do mental illness and alcoholism at the same time. It nearly killed me last time. I just can't; I lost myself trying to get him to get help. I think I would rather live in a cardboard box in an alley than to sit in the damn car while he dodges a random white car because "they" are following him.
So I feel resentful, angry and guilty. I want to cry. I don't want this to be the rest of my life. I am almost 50 yo and I am too old, tired and broke to be doing this any more, but I don't want to throw away a 30 year long marriage.
el-cee said
Jul 28, 2016
Im sorry your living with the chaose and insanity of alcoholism. I can relate to everything you write about here and it sums up the insanity for me and the idea that living this way is like being on a never ending merrygoround of crisis after crisis. Alcoholism is a progressive life threatening disease that shortens the life span of your both if you let it. I sugggest looking up alanon online, find a meeting in your area and go take the seat thats waiting on you. This whole miserable scenario can play out forever or you can go to meetings, get support from others who have walked your path, learn to think differently, thats what I did and every aspect of my life changed and improved.
Calm Lady said
Jul 28, 2016
Your post is also so true for me. I am exhausted. Sorry we both have this to deal with.
hotrod said
Jul 28, 2016
))Groo))) you are not alone and I assure you there is support and understanding available in the rooms of alanon. Here i found that others understood as few others could, shared their own experience strength and hope regarding living with and dealing with this dreadful disease. It is a dreadful, progressive chronic disease that can be arrested but never cured.
As you know we who live with the disease become adversely affected by attempting to cope wiht the insanity of the disease and do need a program of recovery of our own.
Alanon is that program and has helped many regain their own sanity and self esteem while providing support and new tools to live by. Please do try to attend at least 6 meetings before deciding.
Keep coming back here as well.
Iamhere said
Jul 28, 2016
Groo - welcome to MIP - glad you found us and glad that you shared. This disease is maddening and I fully understand the pain and wonder of the seeming never-ending-cycle of insanity, drama and chaos that comes with it. We too had counselors and treatment centers suggest that mental health issues were present, so in my efforts to 'help' I was always concerned about how to two interacted with each other, which came first, how to dance gently with/around the MH issues, etc. What I discovered in the end for my situation is that I could not care more about their life, present, career, future than they did. If they were truly ready to get well and to adhere to treatment/recovery, then I would be 'of service'. If they wanted to self-medicate, argue with the care providers, lay on the couch, etc. I needed to mind my own business.
Trying to reason or converse with an active alcoholic was pointless in my situation. Even when there were moments of clarity, they were not present and accounted for. This disease is powerful and pulls the alcoholic in one way that allows their mind to see it as a better or common or popular way to deal with life, issues, etc. For those with addiction issues, there is no such thing as moderation and this often applies well beyond the drink.
I too was very tired when I arrived. I was a bit angry when I was told that Al-Anon was about me working on me - how I act, how I react, how I listen/do/process - in my mind, I wasn't the one with the issues!!! I did not want to fix me, I wanted to blame and fix all those around me. So - I did not have an open mind and I resisted for a while. What I have since learned is that I am totally powerless over other people, places and things and all I can affect is me.
The program and those who came before me helped me see that the dance changes when I change. I learned how to live again, be confident, take care of me, and detach from them as necessary with love and kindness. I too suggest you seek out meetings and find local support for living with this disease. There is help and hope in the program - keep coming back here too!
Groo said
Jul 28, 2016
Thank you el-cee, Calm Lady and Hotrod! Just hearing that this is insanity and that this hits home for someone else makes a difference. I've been doing Al-anon online, listening to youtube speakers, step advice, etc., and I know I need to do the f2f thing, but (Isn't there always a but when someone is in denial? lol),I don't trust that these people will keep things private and anonymous. I need to find something further away, and works with my schedule, which hasn't happened yet.
Today he texts he is sorry, thinks he might be in trouble with his job for missing a required meeting. I feel resentment and want to snark back so I don't answer the texts at all. Thinking about sending a AA link, but I think that may be the side of me that wants to "fix" him so I have said nothing.
I have been doing pretty well with refusing to argue with him, up until a couple of days ago... I didn't feel the usual rage and resentment, even when he stormed out of the house. I did feel fear, I was scared of him and what he might do when he returned. He is not abusive, he doesn't hit or throw things, he doesn't even really yell. I grew up with raging angry parents, who fought constantly. They terrified me and I spent a lot of time hiding from them in closets. Dad would throw things, and mom would take it out on my rear with a belt. So I understand where this unreasonable fear of angry people comes from. I am terrified of him when he is angry and I don't even think he knows it because I used to rage back at him, I'd go over the top just to cover up my fear.
I will say that I can very much see a difference in myself and how I react to his drinking after making some personal changes via Al-anon. I think he sees it too and is now his behavior is escalating, I think he is looking for old patterns to continue. I've worked hard looking at myself and admitting to myself that I can only control what I do and how I think. I've mostly accepted that I cannot "fix" him although sometimes I still struggle. I have had more peace during this storm than at any other time, thank y'all for listening, it really does help knowing someone else is living la vida loca.
Groo said
Jul 28, 2016
"What I discovered in the end for my situation is that I could not care more about their life, present, career, future than they did." AMEN, Iamhere!! You are right, even when he his sober, he is not totally connected. I wore myself out trying to do the work for him, sent inspirational quotes, had him meditate with me, etc. We went through three counselors, the first agreed with everything he said, and told me that there was truth in what he said. That's great, but she isn't living with someone who thought "they" were draining the swamp looking for evidence against him. The second one, said we needed a psychiatrist, six weeks to get an appointment and he canceled it a week before. The third one was very effective, got him in with a psychiatrist the next day, where we were told it was all a matter of getting him the right medication. It worked wonders, no more delusion, and reduced anxiety, but the counselor died back in May so we are starting all over again with a new one. Sometimes I just feel so overwhelmed knowing one day he is going to kill himself with liver disease. It's tragic, but I have to let go and let God or I will lose my mind. Thank you for your kind words!
Iamhere said
Jul 28, 2016
You're welcome Groo - I understand your fear about the anonymity of the program - but it's a two way street. Most there either feel as you do or did feel as you did. We do our very, very best not to even take anything said within the walls of the program outside for any reason....not even my AH or my kids hear about anything in the program.
Breathe and just take one day at a time!!
gabigail said
Jul 28, 2016
((((Groo))))
I see a lot of what I went through when my A was actively drinking, as well as now as a dry drunk. My A actually stripped in the backyard while my neighbors were outside having a party (I left her alone for 1 minute to unlock the door and let the dog out). The fights, the twisting of words, the second guessing "did I say it like that or did I say that or not" made me think I was losing my mind. Al- anon has helped me see that I needed help, too. That my resentment turned to anger is not helping my situation and that I'm self-sabotaging myself to make more insanity for myself. The behaviors I learned were survival techniques from my childhood and also in my marriage. Right now I am taking things one day at a time, though I worry about the future. Currently my A and I are separated and we've been together for 14 years almost...I don't want to see this relationship die, but in many ways, it already has. Right now I'm focusing on my own recovery and looking out for myself to get my life back. Praying to my HP that things will work out in the end and that I can enjoy life again and have peace. I hope that for you, too. Please keep coming back.
Gabigail
KT2015 said
Jul 28, 2016
Hi Groo
I can relate to what you are going through too. Alcoholism can be so chaotic to live with at times. I think you have some great insights into yourself especially since you haven't been to a face to face meeting yet. The first meetings I went to were far from my house because I too worried about the anonymity of the program. After a while I realized I didn't need to do that because of what Iamhere said. So I decided to try a meeting that is a 10 minute walk from my house right in my neighbourhood. For the first few meetings I just listened and didn't share but after a while I could see that everyone shared sensitive info and that my anonymity would be maintained.
Arguing with him when he was drunk wasn't "stupid" it was a deeply ingrained thing you have done that you are trying to do better at. I think it is great that you had the insight to stop when you did. You don't have to do any of the Al Anon things perfectly but the fact that you are working the program just a bit is amazing. Face to Face meetings will really help it because you can't really do this program alone.
Keep coming back!
Freetime said
Jul 28, 2016
Hi Groo, I can relate to what you said about "I would rather live in a cardboard box in an alley ..." than live with the craziness. I had exactly the same thought ... that it would be just fine to live in a cardboard box or maybe in a cave with a large boulder blocking the entrance ... when I was at my bottom. I often thought about my AH, "Who in their right mind acts this way or says these things?" ... and finally I realized he was not in his right mind because of alcoholism. That helped me not take things personally.
I also encourage attending Alanon. The groups I have attended take anonymity seriously. Also remember you do not have to share your story in the meeting until you are ready ... you can just listen, and that by itself can be helpful. Things became better for me when I got really involved in the program.
Bethany66 said
Jul 29, 2016
I agree so much with FreeTime. First, what was said about an A not being in their right mind. I remind myself of that all the time, and I agree, it helps to not take it personally. Also, in my experience, I have never had a problem with anonymity and I believe that is because this is a program for people who are trying to regain sanity, clarity, hope and strength and any break in anonymity is so counter intuitive to that goal that it doesn't really enter in to the picture. I agree you can go and just listen. I get so much out of being quiet, not thinking about what I am going to share, and just actively listening to others. I find that miracles come at the f2f meetings, and they come most often when I am quiet and still. I encourage you to try a meeting, near or far, whatever makes you more comfortable.
This program works, keep working it!! :)
Groo said
Jul 31, 2016
Thank you all for your replies; you have all helped me feel like my next step really needs to be a f2f meeting. My HP has been good to me this week, I had to leave home for a few days, and AH is on a full out bender. It's a blessing that I'm not there, but he does his best to drag me in with drunk texting, lol. That is a blessing as well because it gives me time to think about my replies, or to ignore it altogether. I will check in again after I do that f2f meeting, thanks!
hotrod said
Jul 31, 2016
Groo Great decision Let us know how it goes .
Iamhere said
Jul 31, 2016
Great decision Groo - like Betty, I would love to hear how it goes for you.
In the meantime, feel free to keep participating here. When I was knew I read many threads to just get a feel for how others kept the focus on themselves for personal recovery.
Make it a great day!!
IAmStrong said
Aug 4, 2016
Hey there. I get it quite a lot. My exA has ptsd from time in military. Just wanted to ask, with no response needed, if your is. IF so, contact your local VA support network. He could easily qualify for care and financial aid. Some are unaware. My ex went decades denying and not accepting help from a time it was not acknowledged. Best regards, also Social Security/Medicare if it is a documented and disabling illness. Many self medicate with A and or drugs. Best regards to you. PS IF military related...looking at 30 yrs married possibly so, you can find further info on military.com. Awesome to focus on your reactions and actions and learning to handle things in a healthy manner. A great place to come to focus on you, your most valuable asset!
So AH started at 8AM, I get home at 6PM and ignore the fact that he has been drunk all day. I was pleasant and we had a fairly decent conversation up until I slipped. I sort of joked about something that was a sensitive subject for him and all hell broke loose. I tried to apologize and leave the room, but he wasn't having any of it. The three sentences I said somehow turned into thirty, somehow I had called him names, made fun of him, everything was twisted and elaborated and thrown back at me repeatedly. I apologized again and it was as though I had said nothing. I became irritated and began arguing back with him. Stupid, I know; and so I left the room and went for a soak in the tub while he took the keys and left the house.
Two hours later I get several texts that made no sense and I finally figured out he went to a bar, parked his vehicle in an empty lot where it proceeded to get stuck in the mud. Thank you HP! He refused to tell me where he was until he had jogged to the end of our street. I took the car to meet him, and there the fool was running in full fury when his pants slipped and he went sprawling into the street. Stopped the car, offered to help him up and he refused. There he was rolling around in the street in his underwear, drunk looking like a fool and I said "stay in your hula hoop." So he crawled to the car and eventually got in. I went to bed and this morning he has almost nothing to say, and has missed work because of being stuck in the mud.
I know I screwed up making a jest, and arguing with a drunk. This afternoon when I called I admitted to him I shouldn't have gone there and I was wrong. He was drunk and angry again. Now he is furious that I didn't come and get him after the first garbled text.
Not only is he a big time drinker, he has PSTD and GAD (generalized anxiety disorder). He went all paranoid delusional for a while and I lived with some crazy stuff. He constantly thought the phones were bugged, and that the FBI was after him. He was treated and the delusions are gone. He is still paranoid and full of anxiety. I have dealt with this for three years now and I am sick and tired. Today he says he is going to quit his job, that people are dead to him because they are too much trouble. If that fool quits his job he loses his insurance that pays for his counseling, psychiatrist, and medications. I can Al-anon a lot of things, but I just can't do mental illness and alcoholism at the same time. It nearly killed me last time. I just can't; I lost myself trying to get him to get help. I think I would rather live in a cardboard box in an alley than to sit in the damn car while he dodges a random white car because "they" are following him.
So I feel resentful, angry and guilty. I want to cry. I don't want this to be the rest of my life. I am almost 50 yo and I am too old, tired and broke to be doing this any more, but I don't want to throw away a 30 year long marriage.
))Groo))) you are not alone and I assure you there is support and understanding available in the rooms of alanon. Here i found that others understood as few others could, shared their own experience strength and hope regarding living with and dealing with this dreadful disease. It is a dreadful, progressive chronic disease that can be arrested but never cured.
As you know we who live with the disease become adversely affected by attempting to cope wiht the insanity of the disease and do need a program of recovery of our own.
Alanon is that program and has helped many regain their own sanity and self esteem while providing support and new tools to live by. Please do try to attend at least 6 meetings before deciding.
Keep coming back here as well.
Trying to reason or converse with an active alcoholic was pointless in my situation. Even when there were moments of clarity, they were not present and accounted for. This disease is powerful and pulls the alcoholic in one way that allows their mind to see it as a better or common or popular way to deal with life, issues, etc. For those with addiction issues, there is no such thing as moderation and this often applies well beyond the drink.
I too was very tired when I arrived. I was a bit angry when I was told that Al-Anon was about me working on me - how I act, how I react, how I listen/do/process - in my mind, I wasn't the one with the issues!!! I did not want to fix me, I wanted to blame and fix all those around me. So - I did not have an open mind and I resisted for a while. What I have since learned is that I am totally powerless over other people, places and things and all I can affect is me.
The program and those who came before me helped me see that the dance changes when I change. I learned how to live again, be confident, take care of me, and detach from them as necessary with love and kindness. I too suggest you seek out meetings and find local support for living with this disease. There is help and hope in the program - keep coming back here too!
Today he texts he is sorry, thinks he might be in trouble with his job for missing a required meeting. I feel resentment and want to snark back so I don't answer the texts at all. Thinking about sending a AA link, but I think that may be the side of me that wants to "fix" him so I have said nothing.
I have been doing pretty well with refusing to argue with him, up until a couple of days ago... I didn't feel the usual rage and resentment, even when he stormed out of the house. I did feel fear, I was scared of him and what he might do when he returned. He is not abusive, he doesn't hit or throw things, he doesn't even really yell. I grew up with raging angry parents, who fought constantly. They terrified me and I spent a lot of time hiding from them in closets. Dad would throw things, and mom would take it out on my rear with a belt. So I understand where this unreasonable fear of angry people comes from. I am terrified of him when he is angry and I don't even think he knows it because I used to rage back at him, I'd go over the top just to cover up my fear.
I will say that I can very much see a difference in myself and how I react to his drinking after making some personal changes via Al-anon. I think he sees it too and is now his behavior is escalating, I think he is looking for old patterns to continue. I've worked hard looking at myself and admitting to myself that I can only control what I do and how I think. I've mostly accepted that I cannot "fix" him although sometimes I still struggle. I have had more peace during this storm than at any other time, thank y'all for listening, it really does help knowing someone else is living la vida loca.
Breathe and just take one day at a time!!
I see a lot of what I went through when my A was actively drinking, as well as now as a dry drunk. My A actually stripped in the backyard while my neighbors were outside having a party (I left her alone for 1 minute to unlock the door and let the dog out). The fights, the twisting of words, the second guessing "did I say it like that or did I say that or not" made me think I was losing my mind. Al- anon has helped me see that I needed help, too. That my resentment turned to anger is not helping my situation and that I'm self-sabotaging myself to make more insanity for myself. The behaviors I learned were survival techniques from my childhood and also in my marriage. Right now I am taking things one day at a time, though I worry about the future. Currently my A and I are separated and we've been together for 14 years almost...I don't want to see this relationship die, but in many ways, it already has. Right now I'm focusing on my own recovery and looking out for myself to get my life back. Praying to my HP that things will work out in the end and that I can enjoy life again and have peace. I hope that for you, too. Please keep coming back.
Gabigail
I can relate to what you are going through too. Alcoholism can be so chaotic to live with at times. I think you have some great insights into yourself especially since you haven't been to a face to face meeting yet. The first meetings I went to were far from my house because I too worried about the anonymity of the program. After a while I realized I didn't need to do that because of what Iamhere said. So I decided to try a meeting that is a 10 minute walk from my house right in my neighbourhood. For the first few meetings I just listened and didn't share but after a while I could see that everyone shared sensitive info and that my anonymity would be maintained.
Arguing with him when he was drunk wasn't "stupid" it was a deeply ingrained thing you have done that you are trying to do better at. I think it is great that you had the insight to stop when you did. You don't have to do any of the Al Anon things perfectly but the fact that you are working the program just a bit is amazing. Face to Face meetings will really help it because you can't really do this program alone.
Keep coming back!
Hi Groo, I can relate to what you said about "I would rather live in a cardboard box in an alley ..." than live with the craziness. I had exactly the same thought ... that it would be just fine to live in a cardboard box or maybe in a cave with a large boulder blocking the entrance ... when I was at my bottom. I often thought about my AH, "Who in their right mind acts this way or says these things?" ... and finally I realized he was not in his right mind because of alcoholism. That helped me not take things personally.
I also encourage attending Alanon. The groups I have attended take anonymity seriously. Also remember you do not have to share your story in the meeting until you are ready ... you can just listen, and that by itself can be helpful. Things became better for me when I got really involved in the program.
This program works, keep working it!! :)
In the meantime, feel free to keep participating here. When I was knew I read many threads to just get a feel for how others kept the focus on themselves for personal recovery.
Make it a great day!!