I'm so glad there is place like this where there are people who understand this terrible disease. I had a brother who lived with me and was an alcoholic. He died recently this past August from end stage liver failure at the age of 57. I'm having tremendous problems dealing with it. He knew he had liver problems for many years but didn't get any symptoms until 2 or 3 years ago. He lived with me for a long time and I was the one who basically helped with his health problems. I got him to doctor appointments, tests, other procedures, and the emergency room when he needed it.
     His last 3 or 4 days at my house,before he went to ICU, were spent laying on my couch where he usually slept. Normally he was at least somewhat up and about. At first I got concerned when I noticed he had not taken his latest dose of pills. I gave him his pills but he was very groggy. He got them down, but not easily.I went about my usual business around the house (I'm retired). I  kept checking on him from time to time. He seemed to be sleeping most of the time. He hadn't been drinking because he hadn't left the house in this whole time. He did have some pain pills from his doctor that could have made him groggy but I don't know if he took any of them and I didn't give him any. I could see him rolling around under the covers, so I assumed he was OK. I asked him once if he was OK and he grumpily said that yes he was fine..  I was still concerned about him but just wasn't sure what to do or if I needed to do anything. Something definitely seemed wrong, but I thought maybe I was overreacting, because sometimes I do overreact to things.
     His TV usually was on 24 hours a day which was normal, but he hadn't changed the channel this whole time(3 or 4 days).Unusual. I never saw him leave the couch but figured maybe he have been getting up to eat at night while I was asleep or while I was out doing my stuff around the house. I continued giving him his medications and keeping an eye on him. Same thing as before, seemed to be rolling around in bed was groggy and had  difficulties taking his meds.
     On the 4th day he ended up collapsing on my kitchen floor. He was trying to get a glass of water, which I got for him. Then I called EMS.They took him to the local emergency room where he was given blood and then transferred to ICU. He died about 10 days later after one day in hospice.
     I'm just wracked with guilt.Looking back, it seems obvious I should have done something sooner. I think I should have called his doctor for instructions or just called EMS sooner. With this disease there are so many crises sometimes you just get confused and don't know what to do.I never failed him in the past. Always got him to the emergency room or wherever he needed to be. Got little help from my family or anyone else. People just didn't seem to care because he was an alcoholic.
     I'm seeing a psychologist now who says I have nothing to feel guilty about.  He seems to think my brother knew he was dying and  didn't want to go to the hospital in the first place. I just don't know. Maybe I should have asked my brother this question, but I didn't. An ICU nurse told me that my brother was in end stage liver disease  and even if  he were to have survived this incident, he probably still wouldn't have survived much longer. Hospice nurse told me that it probably wouldn't have made a difference even if he would have been brought in earlier.
    Can anyone tell me how to deal with this? Have any of you ever dealt with anything like this before.? I just can't stand any more guilt. I really didn't expect him to die.

Welcome John I am so very sorry to read of the loss of your brother. It is good that you reached out and shared your pain and deep concerns. I can completely relate to your situation, as my son passed from this dreadful disease at the age of 42 and I was his care giver. I often called the ambulance when I feared for him and he would refuse to leave the home .They would not force him.

The night he passed I thought I should call again but a small voice within suggested that I leave him be , give a drink of water, tell him I loved him and that was enough I did just that and in the morning he was gone.

I assure you you have nothing to feel guilty about. Your brother was safe and secure in your home during his final days. He knew he was loved and that he was not alone. You gave him a very precious gift and for that you should never fell guilty about .

I thank HP every day that I could be with my son during his last days and that he knew he was loved.

Alanon meetings, sponsors, the Steps all helped me to reconcile my loss and so I suggest that you search out alanon face to face meetings in your communities and attend. In addition to therapy please remember all that he medical professionals informed you of as they were correct. Your brother, like my son was in end stage of this dreadful disease and any action you might have taken would not have changed the outcome.
Please keep coming back

I'm so sorry for your loss.

I took care of both my parents during their final illnesses (which we didn't know were final at the time), and since then I've known many people who took care of ill people who passed away.

It's my experience that in 100% of those cases, the carer has to cope with regret and guilt over some part of the situation.  Because in retrospect, after more is known, there are always those ambiguous "What if?" points.  Points where you can feel racked with guilt about "If only I had gotten him to the hospital sooner... checked the details ... asked him X ... insisted on Y ... made sure the doctor did Z ..."

They are symptoms of our grief and sorrow and fervent wish that our loved one could have been saved.

The truth is that we did the very best we could with what we knew at the time.  The grief for their passing is strong.  But we shouldn't let it take us apart.

I also have been haunted by feelings of "Why did I ask these questions?  Why didn't I say these important things?  Why wasn't I kinder?  Why did I lose my temper that time(s)?" And many others.  My wise therapist said, "There are always questions you didn't ask.  There are always things you wish you'd said."  That's the human condition.  We have never asked every question that could be asked or said everything that could be said.

I've also read, and seen it confirmed, that people often divide into underfunctioners and overfunctioners.  The more one person underfunctions, the more the other person overfunctions in compensation. 

Your brother, from your description, was an underfunctioner.  That's typical for an alcoholic.  So you, like many of us on these boards, most likely took over parts of his functioning in order to keep things going.  And he kept that dynamic going by continuing to underfunction.  Even to the point of seriously not taking care of his health.  (That's also so typical of an alcoholic.)  The problem here is that the overfunctioner then can feel guilty for not overfunctioning enough to keep the underfunctioner from experiencing any consequence of his decisions.  We want to protect them from everything in the world.  But their choice to drink and keep drinking means that their bodies will respond as bodies do.  There is no way any other person can fend that off.  But you shouldn't take your traditional role as an overfunctioner to mean that you have somehow failed in not saving him from the inevitable health consequences of drinking.  No overfunctioner can be that powerful.  Overfunctioning gives us a history of taking responsibility.  But this is one thing you can't realistically take responsibility for.  I know how painful that is for someone who can be proud of keeping it all going for so long.  But it's the unfortunate truth.  Whatever decisions you made on those final days, no human being is powerful enough to stave off the consequences of someone else's drinking.  

Please take good care of yourself. 

I too would like to welcome you to MIP and extend my condolences to you for the lose of your brother.
I do not have any ESH concerning end stage liver disease, but it would seem to me that feeling that
you were somehow responsible for his death is a heavy weight to carry. You were his caretaker for
quite a while and maybe, you just plain miss him. Totally understandable. Wishing you peace.

Thank you for sharing this, Mattie. I have been looking through grief comments to find some comfort and this helped me. My longtime companion passed away in the spring from cirrhosis. He was so talented, so open-hearted, so kind and caring but neglected  his health, repeatedly refusing to pursue medical care until was in pain. What complicated things was his lack of  access to health care...we didn't realize he probably was eligible for medicaid. Twelve years ago he had asked me to marry him. At that point, he would have been covered by my healthcare. He was drinking so much then, though, that I didn't think I could continue to live with him. Sometimes he would bcome belligerent with my family or friends and that created problems.  He never considered the possibility of quitting. He was a poet/artist...an excellent one, but we know how little that pays. He worked as a bartender off and on and we know how that can be for an alcoholic. I couldn't  handle  witnessing the self-destruct going on so I asked him to move out. He drifted from one friend's house to another for five years.  We remained close. Over the last two years before his passing, he would call me every morning at sunrise to see where I was taking our dog (to the park,the river, the wading pool) and we would meet there, then go to my house for breakfast, then go on with our day.  WHen got sick, I told him he had to move back. He did, briefly,but then went to visit his family to help with his elderly father's move to a nursing home. While staying alone in his Dad's condo, he passed away. He knew he was at end stage liver disease but had asked a friend of ours, a doctor, (he had released his records to her) not to tell me how bad it was. I  had sent him a ticket to come home but he died ten days before the flight. Our 14 year old dog gives me reason to go on but he is failing. How do we go on?

i believe some of what we feel when someone commits suicide is Survivor guilt.  I am not meaning to infer that your brother killed himself but really drinking yourself to death is suicide.

I have been around a lot of alcoholics.  Separating yourself from their life is very tough stuff.  I think I kind of merge with the alcoholic into one unit to try to fight the disease.

These days I no longer feel guilty about any alcoholic's self abuse.  I don't feel it is my mission to cure them.

I can understand that in taking care of someone who didn't take care of themselves there is a need to find something worthy in being so diligent.  I have certainly been more than diligent in taking care of an alcoholic on so many levels. That diligence started when I was a child and continued until I was a mature adult.  (mature being in age not in mentality).

Maybe its time to give some of the diligence that you gave so willingly and unselfishly to your brother to yourself.  Treat yourself, cherish yourself, be kind to yourself.

Addiction claims people every day, generally it is not pretty.  You deserve to be treasured, to be comforted, to be cared for.  Rather than beating yourself up, which is the norm for so many of us who have

neglect ourselves, it is time to put down the stick.  

Letting go of an alcoholic is really difficult stuff.  Finding allies in your healing is a big job. In the meantime, you can be your one and true ally in much the same way you were always there for him right through to the end.    Now you can be"there' for yourself in this time of grief.

Maresie. 

Welcome to the board Mary and (((((hugs)))))....Alcohol and alcoholism provides at times both the pain and the mercy as alcohol is anesthetic.  My experience with it gave me the understanding that suicide with alcohol was the most comfortable and peaceful form I could imagine.  I felt no pain at all and was too mentally deranged to worry about what was happening.  I couldn't have cared less.  That was to a point merciful and how it came out was that I didn't have that one ounce too much that took me over the edge.  It just closed my systems down and later I found myself still alive.  Because of the mercy of the program I am more alive than that morning in Samoa where I experience the toxic shock.  Stay with MIP Mary...there is so much to learn and experience.   

Hello, thank you so much for your reply. Im so pleased with a response. 

Thank you, I think It would really help to share my story with all the supportive people on here. Ill write my story soon and write it onto a new post. 

im so sorry for your loss too, its so tragic. Thank you so much for telling me Im not alone here and for the support, it really helps. 

I am sorry to everyone in this group who has gone through this or people who are going through this. I look forward to sharing support. Ill be sharing my story soon 

Thank you for welcoming me. 

I don't know who brought the  fruition of this discussion to the board this morning.  It, for me is magical and rides along and into my morning meditation as I was getting up.  I woke up with gratitude, lots of it for the program and all of its tools and positive events since I agreed to get over my resistance and stay within the rooms of the family groups which has become astronomical  to my life.  To see Johns name and Betty's and the others who were here to say "keep coming back" over and over and over again.

To meditate and remember my daily journey and then continue it with the daily readings and prayers is awesome and then to go to the window and watch the work of HP to continue His love for me and so many others in ways I am powerless over.  

I feel deep gratitude for everything and one who has kept me alive these years including John's brother.  For all of you who have been here for me.  Mahalo for your unconditional love.  (((((hugs))))) 

Welcome to the board Mark and glad you reached out and hope you come by and read and share daily.  I know that with the present Corona19 virus lots has changed and still besides the ZOOM meetings which are available to the membership there may still be face to face groups around your neighborhood.  Those meeting are what saved my sanity and life when I first decided I could not go this alone.

Alcoholics don't often have family, friends and others abide with them as the disease ends their lives yet in your brother's case he did...he had you and that blessing always trumps the insanity and loneliness and shame and guilt that is so often in the room.  I learned that  the opposite of guilt was often found in empathy which is what I share now. Feeling with.

Experience, strength and hope being sent your way including prayers.   Keep coming back.

((((hugs))))