I read James Frey's book when it first came out so it's been a couple years, and I do not remember as much as I would like to in it. I do remember that I enjoyed his style of writing and the story was good, true or not. I even gave it as a gift to a friend who was going through treatment at the time, she got alot out of it.
Now the other day this odd thing happened. My A was watching the news and commented about how I liked that book and now the guy was being called a liar. (as much as I wanted to point out I like my A and he is a liar too I didn't) but I did find myself defending James Frey. Now I naturally choose the underdog and will take the opposite stance from whoever I am talking to just to debate an issue even when I agree ... so take this with a grain of salt. My responce was ...
#1 Addictions make lies by nature
#2 Who is to say that this is what James Frey remembers ... not that it is TRUTH but his version of it. Even my husband had to agree with this since his version of what happened is sometimes OFF BASE from reality.
#3 Publishing houses sell books, editors make books better supposedly, authors want to sell their books, there are many people responsible for checking facts and judging content.
#4 We as people have the right to choose what we believe and do not. Also what helps us and does not.
IMHO ... the real problem is that people think that someone's story has to be SO BAD before it is worthy of gaining attention. What is lost here is that a man faced his demons and is doing well by whatever means. And this book has helped people, fact or fiction. I have come to rely on taking what I like and leaving the rest ... at least until I realise I need that part too.
Anyway just wanted to throw my 2 cents in, and have a chuckle remembering my reaction and defense of James Frey.
Jennifer
maresie said
Jan 13, 2006
Jennifer: i think the James Frey story is interesting. I have only read parts of his book but I did note that he definitely has an "ego". I also note from having read the letter to the publishers which is on the smokinggun website that he does not understand 12 steps and makes global statements about addiction counselling/treatment centers.
I think there is an ethical issue about saying something is a memoir when it isn't. And for Oprah to go on Larry King and say it isn't relevant is kind of breaching some of the standards she setr up. Of course it is great that his book inspires others and brings up the subject of drug addiction, dysfunctional families whatever. At the same time if you are trying to inspire people its best to get your story straight and not embellish. The means do not justify the end.
James Frey has made millions selling something he says is true. Now it turns out not to be true so therefore he defrauded people on some level. He did initially try to sell his book as fiction and I think fiction definitely has its place being a bibliophille and having read a great deal.
I'm not someone who is going to be going to his publisher and asking for my money back because I didn't buy it in the first place. And if I had I doubt I would go ask for my money back but I would be interested in the debate. Of course I am also humble enough to know that my view is not everyone's elses view, should be everyone else's view or trying to convert anyone to my view either. Al-anon has given me that much.
Maresie.
Jennifer said
Jan 13, 2006
Hi Maresie,
The ethical issue would be more interesting if it were not about something so personal to me. I did not know he originally tried to market his book as fiction. I wonder if, like those movies that are "based on the true story of so and so", we will have a new classification. The fiction, nonfiction, and based on fact but embellished areas.
Haven't watched Oprah in a long time. I am amazed by Oprah's influence on people's choices of what to read, watch, eat .. etc. I knew she was powerful, just never gave it much thought before now. I tend to stay away from reviews, critics and the like, to come across things that interest and please me without being biased by another's opinions.
Aside from the stress this has caused the people involved, I am glad it was brought out. I saw some changes in myself because of it. In times past when my A would bring up a negative about my choice of reading a recovery or similar book, I would clam up, take it personal or start preaching. This time I jumped right into the debate with no thought to my personal choice of having read it. And in a way that did not make it personal for him either. HURRAY! I even posted here without thinking beforehand if it would cause a conflict or offend anyone unintentionally. HURRAY!
Jennifer
hudsond said
Jan 13, 2006
When I first heard about the book I wanted to get it very badly. Then I heard he didn't really believe in the AA program and the 12 steps, and I was too scared to get it. I was afraid my a would say well if he did it himself then I can too. My co-dependent ways couldn't get the book for him.
I too thought it was interesting that he did not tell the whole truth, but then when I thought about it I can to the same conclusions---a's lie or tell their versions of it.
While I don't like the idea of telling people that they don't need AA, different things do work for different people. Take what you like--leave the rest kind of thing.
Dawn
Jeannie said
Jan 13, 2006
I don't really care if the book is all true or not.
I agree with what you say, that maybe it is true as he remembers it. During the time in the rehab and all times before he was either under the influence or in early recovery.
The smoking gun website makes a big issue of the train wreck, saying that he was not involved as the police report says, but he added himself to it. In his book, he says the girl was his friend, he took her to the movies in an attempt for her to sneak out and be with an older boy. She was with thte older boy when the train struck the car. He felt guilt and the loss of a friend and said he felt like a victim. Addicts either go numb or make themselves center stage in a tragedy, it is what they do. He was an addict.
If the book cannot be proven true, why is anyone suprised? The man was an addict, he embelished. He had a chip on his shoulder and false bravado. Sounds like someone I know. how about you?
Wether he embraced the 12 steps or not, he did follow his own version of a program, he read the Tao, he did it his way. Isn't that what take what you want and leave the rest means.
I found the fact that he accepted friendship from both other patients and staff, he realized he couldn't do it alone. He states in his letter to the reader that the friends he made there, more than anyone else except his family are the reason he made it. Isn't that what AA and Alanon are? Isn't that what started the first AA, men joining together to fight their disease.
Fact or fiction, it was a really good read, and I love seeing anyone beat this horrible disease. Addiction wins too often, I for one am willing to see one up on the side of recovery, no matter how it is attained.
Hey all,
I read James Frey's book when it first came out so it's been a couple years, and I do not remember as much as I would like to in it. I do remember that I enjoyed his style of writing and the story was good, true or not. I even gave it as a gift to a friend who was going through treatment at the time, she got alot out of it.
Now the other day this odd thing happened. My A was watching the news and commented about how I liked that book and now the guy was being called a liar. (as much as I wanted to point out I like my A and he is a liar too I didn't) but I did find myself defending James Frey. Now I naturally choose the underdog and will take the opposite stance from whoever I am talking to just to debate an issue even when I agree ... so take this with a grain of salt. My responce was ...
#1 Addictions make lies by nature
#2 Who is to say that this is what James Frey remembers ... not that it is TRUTH but his version of it. Even my husband had to agree with this since his version of what happened is sometimes OFF BASE from reality.
#3 Publishing houses sell books, editors make books better supposedly, authors want to sell their books, there are many people responsible for checking facts and judging content.
#4 We as people have the right to choose what we believe and do not. Also what helps us and does not.
IMHO ... the real problem is that people think that someone's story has to be SO BAD before it is worthy of gaining attention. What is lost here is that a man faced his demons and is doing well by whatever means. And this book has helped people, fact or fiction. I have come to rely on taking what I like and leaving the rest ... at least until I realise I need that part too.
Anyway just wanted to throw my 2 cents in, and have a chuckle remembering my reaction and defense of James Frey.
Jennifer
Jennifer: i think the James Frey story is interesting. I have only read parts of his book but I did note that he definitely has an "ego". I also note from having read the letter to the publishers which is on the smokinggun website that he does not understand 12 steps and makes global statements about addiction counselling/treatment centers.
I think there is an ethical issue about saying something is a memoir when it isn't. And for Oprah to go on Larry King and say it isn't relevant is kind of breaching some of the standards she setr up. Of course it is great that his book inspires others and brings up the subject of drug addiction, dysfunctional families whatever. At the same time if you are trying to inspire people its best to get your story straight and not embellish. The means do not justify the end.
James Frey has made millions selling something he says is true. Now it turns out not to be true so therefore he defrauded people on some level. He did initially try to sell his book as fiction and I think fiction definitely has its place being a bibliophille and having read a great deal.
I'm not someone who is going to be going to his publisher and asking for my money back because I didn't buy it in the first place. And if I had I doubt I would go ask for my money back but I would be interested in the debate. Of course I am also humble enough to know that my view is not everyone's elses view, should be everyone else's view or trying to convert anyone to my view either. Al-anon has given me that much.
Maresie.
Hi Maresie,
The ethical issue would be more interesting if it were not about something so personal to me. I did not know he originally tried to market his book as fiction. I wonder if, like those movies that are "based on the true story of so and so", we will have a new classification. The fiction, nonfiction, and based on fact but embellished areas.
Haven't watched Oprah in a long time. I am amazed by Oprah's influence on people's choices of what to read, watch, eat .. etc. I knew she was powerful, just never gave it much thought before now. I tend to stay away from reviews, critics and the like, to come across things that interest and please me without being biased by another's opinions.
Aside from the stress this has caused the people involved, I am glad it was brought out. I saw some changes in myself because of it. In times past when my A would bring up a negative about my choice of reading a recovery or similar book, I would clam up, take it personal or start preaching. This time I jumped right into the debate with no thought to my personal choice of having read it. And in a way that did not make it personal for him either. HURRAY! I even posted here without thinking beforehand if it would cause a conflict or offend anyone unintentionally. HURRAY!
Jennifer
When I first heard about the book I wanted to get it very badly. Then I heard he didn't really believe in the AA program and the 12 steps, and I was too scared to get it. I was afraid my a would say well if he did it himself then I can too. My co-dependent ways couldn't get the book for him.
I too thought it was interesting that he did not tell the whole truth, but then when I thought about it I can to the same conclusions---a's lie or tell their versions of it.
While I don't like the idea of telling people that they don't need AA, different things do work for different people. Take what you like--leave the rest kind of thing.
Dawn
I don't really care if the book is all true or not.
I agree with what you say, that maybe it is true as he remembers it. During the time in the rehab and all times before he was either under the influence or in early recovery.
The smoking gun website makes a big issue of the train wreck, saying that he was not involved as the police report says, but he added himself to it. In his book, he says the girl was his friend, he took her to the movies in an attempt for her to sneak out and be with an older boy. She was with thte older boy when the train struck the car. He felt guilt and the loss of a friend and said he felt like a victim. Addicts either go numb or make themselves center stage in a tragedy, it is what they do. He was an addict.
If the book cannot be proven true, why is anyone suprised? The man was an addict, he embelished. He had a chip on his shoulder and false bravado. Sounds like someone I know. how about you?
Wether he embraced the 12 steps or not, he did follow his own version of a program, he read the Tao, he did it his way. Isn't that what take what you want and leave the rest means.
I found the fact that he accepted friendship from both other patients and staff, he realized he couldn't do it alone. He states in his letter to the reader that the friends he made there, more than anyone else except his family are the reason he made it. Isn't that what AA and Alanon are? Isn't that what started the first AA, men joining together to fight their disease.
Fact or fiction, it was a really good read, and I love seeing anyone beat this horrible disease. Addiction wins too often, I for one am willing to see one up on the side of recovery, no matter how it is attained.
Love Jeannie