I just recently started attending Al-Anon meetings...while I find them very helpful in that I can associate with people that undestand what I have been through. But I truly don't buy into some of the beliefs in the meetings, not that they're bad things, nor do I want to offend anyone..I don't see what I did wrong, I took great care of her, spoiled her rotten, and was a great husband..she'd tell you the same.
To give a little light to the situation; my wife is an addict, she became dependant on prescription drugs over a period of time...she's always been wild and liked to party, very fun to be around, but a few months ago life turned into a living hell...I've seen her slowly decline over a period of a couple of years, but she hit rock bottom in October. She said things to me that should never be forgiven. She forced me to leave and I still have not gone back yet.
I had very little contact with her since then, to be blunt, she was dead to me... Less than a month ago she called me and begged me for forgiveness, stating that she now realizes that she has a problem and was seeking help. I had pretty much already written us off as a couple and was moving on with my life, my son was truly who I was looking out for, but that's a whole other story in itself. She also stated that she needed my help trying to fix herself, so she could fix us.
I told her I'd be a friend and try and help her, but I was not coming home unless I was sure she wouldn't let that ever happen again. Will I ever be sure? I don't know, I guess that's my problem. I do love her still, and I wish it could go back the way it was before. But I'm not sure if that will ever happen.
Has anyone else ever been in this situation? Any advice?
Thank you for reading...
bobump said
Jan 10, 2006
By spoiling someone rotten, you may be doing thing for them that they should be doing themselves. Abliet it altruistic it feeds into their low self esteem cause it feeds into their believe they they can't do these things either. It makes them dependent on you. This also has been offered as some as a definition of enabling. As it takes the enabling behavior far beyond the substance of addiction.
For many of us, we give to the point of not caring for ourselves. This isn't healthy and what I believe i've done is shown others around me that I don't count. I meant to show them they were important but it seems the learned lesson was that I was not. So I give so much that I can't meet my needs, they see that my needs aren't important, and my needs aren't met. Not good for me.
Not sure if any of this made sense or helped. Even if you disagree it might spark more thought.
Bob
Bigus said
Jan 10, 2006
My wife agrees that I did too much for her as well...but it got to the point that if I didn't do it, nobody would...so I guess that is enabling. I might have helped out too much around the house, cooking, running the kids everywhere...I bought her the best of everything. How could she think life was so bad that she didn't care if she lived or died? I can't wrap my brain around that one.
canadianguy said
Jan 10, 2006
First of all, welcome...
Yes, I can relate to pretty much 100% of your post, as my situation was eerily similar...
I actually don't look at Al-Anon in terms of suggesting that we did anything wrong, per se, but that we are "sick", and usually sicker than we accept on the surface. Bottom line that living with, and around, the insanity of alcoholism forces us to use certain coping skills, and it has been my experience that Al-Anon helped me identify these for what they are.... What I choose to do with this new information or skillset is completely up to me....
Part of MY willingness and ability to get better was that I needed to get humbled, and needed to accept that I was as sick as I was. Al-Anon has been great for me, and thousands of others...
Just my opinion
Tom
Christy said
Jan 10, 2006
Will you marry me?
hehe, just kiddin!! You sound like a wonderful man.
In my experience, no matter how much we love, or how much we do, it's never enough to make an addict stop. They have to find that place in themselves that says they don't want that kind of life. It really has nothing to do with how much me care about them.
We enable them without knowing, thinking we are being good people. It's rather shocking to find out that we just made it easier for them not to be responsible for themselves.
Addiction is very difficult to try to understand, I suspect we never fully do.
I do know that there is not a "cure". It is always there to tempt them and reel them back in. Many times, any little excuse to do so will get them started all over again.
On the other hand, if your wife truly wants to change her life around, it is do-able.
Here's the red little red flags I saw. Though I could be totally off. Just my opinion.
She hit rock bottom in Oct. If she truly wants help, "seeking" for 2-3 mo is a pretty long time to be looking and not starting a program or find a therapist.
She said:
She also stated that she needed my help trying to fix herself, so she could fix us.
That part is real IFFY. Only she can fix herself, just as we in Alanon are the only ones that can change ourselves, behaviors and reactions. We can only offer support to the addict while they work on themselves. If YOU knew how to help her, I'm sure you would have before it got to the point it did.
I believe you have some good boundaries set about going back.
What I do know for sure is Actions speak louder then words. When she actually does get help maybe you can take her a bit more seriously.
You were VERY wise in your decision not to jump back in with both feet, that would just show you are still willing to meet her needs no matter what.
Nothing changes, if nothing changes.
Come join us in the chatroom sometime!
Christy
(Cjo)
Bigus said
Jan 10, 2006
canadianguy wrote: First of all, welcome... Yes, I can relate to pretty much 100% of your post, as my situation was eerily similar... I actually don't look at Al-Anon in terms of suggesting that we did anything wrong, per se, but that we are "sick", and usually sicker than we accept on the surface. Bottom line that living with, and around, the insanity of alcoholism forces us to use certain coping skills, and it has been my experience that Al-Anon helped me identify these for what they are.... What I choose to do with this new information or skillset is completely up to me.... Part of MY willingness and ability to get better was that I needed to get humbled, and needed to accept that I was as sick as I was. Al-Anon has been great for me, and thousands of others... Just my opinion Tom
Thanks for your response Tom.
Since you haved lived or are living in the same situation. I'd love to hear some advice on how to handle my situation. Can I trust her again, or is all of this hopeless?
Thanks again,
Christopher
Bigus said
Jan 10, 2006
Christy wrote: Will you marry me? hehe, just kiddin!! You sound like a wonderful man. In my experience, no matter how much we love, or how much we do, it's never enough to make an addict stop. They have to find that place in themselves that says they don't want that kind of life. It really has nothing to do with how much me care about them. We enable them without knowing, thinking we are being good people. It's rather shocking to find out that we just made it easier for them not to be responsible for themselves. Addiction is very difficult to try to understand, I suspect we never fully do. I do know that there is not a "cure". It is always there to tempt them and reel them back in. Many times, any little excuse to do so will get them started all over again. On the other hand, if your wife truly wants to change her life around, it is do-able. Here's the red little red flags I saw. Though I could be totally off. Just my opinion. She hit rock bottom in Oct. If she truly wants help, "seeking" for 2-3 mo is a pretty long time to be looking and not starting a program or find a therapist. She said: She also stated that she needed my help trying to fix herself, so she could fix us. That part is real IFFY. Only she can fix herself, just as we in Alanon are the only ones that can change ourselves, behaviors and reactions. We can only offer support to the addict while they work on themselves. If YOU knew how to help her, I'm sure you would have before it got to the point it did. I believe you have some good boundaries set about going back. What I do know for sure is Actions speak louder then words. When she actually does get help maybe you can take her a bit more seriously. You were VERY wise in your decision not to jump back in with both feet, that would just show you are still willing to meet her needs no matter what. Nothing changes, if nothing changes. Come join us in the chatroom sometime! Christy (Cjo)
Thank you Christy, your response was very insightful and helpful.
Depending on how this all works out, I may be single soon ;) So we'll talk about that later...j/k of course.
Seriously though, I refuse to give in like I used to do. My son from a previous marriage does not need to be subjected to that kind of environment again. Until I'm sure things will be better I'm not going back. But when will I be sure? That's what I'm after...
Christopher
KathyS said
Jan 10, 2006
Hi Christopher and Welcome,
Al Anon is a great place for you, for all of us who's lives have been affected by alcoholism/addiction. Your wife suffers from the disease of addiction. Her perscription drug use is just a symptom of that disease. They refer to this as a family disease simply because it affects everyone who's lives the addict touches.
This has nothing to do with your wifes morals, lack of love or affection for her family, or you in general. There is something we refer to as the Three C's......You didn't Cause it, You can't Control it and You can't Cure it. *It* being her addiction.
All the things you described that you've done for your wife, under normal circumstances where addiction isn't part of the picture, would simply mean you are a great husband and provider. However when addiction is in the picture all these same things can equal enabling. Enabling is doing anything for someone that they should be capable of doing for themselves. We all fall into this pattern without even realizing it. We see them slacking off, things still need to be done so we naturally pick up their slack and do what needs to be done. This enables them to remain dysfunctional, while at the same time we become more and more resentful because we're doing their jobs as well as our own. Make sense?
What Al Anon does for us is helps us recognize and accept that addiction/alcoholism is in fact a disease. It helps us come to terms with the ways in which we've allowed our lives to become unmanageable because of this disease. It gives us tools to help us make our lives manageable again regardless of what our addicted loved ones are or aren't doing. It helps us recognize enabling and learn how to stop that behavior. It helps us learn how to detach from the disease without fully detaching from the addict, unless we've reached a point where that is unavoidable. By working the 12 steps of this program with a sponsor, we get to know ourselves so much better, we realize which areas of our lives need changing and we learn how to make the necessary changes, we learn how to let go of all the resentments we've built up over the years that we usually don't even know we're holding onto.......and that's just a little bit of what this program can do for us if we work it.
I'm sure you'd like to hear a guarantee that your wife will not repeat her behavior and everything will go back to the way it was.......unfortunately with this disease there are no guarantees. They compare it to diabetes because they are similiar as in it's incurable, but with the proper treatment it can be controlled. Your wife has to make a personal decision that she is sick and tired of being sick and tired and desires recovery. Then she has to take action. The highest sucess rate among addicts is when they work the AA or NA programs of recovery. Go to meetings, get a sponsor, work the steps, abstain from any and all mind altering substances. Only SHE can do this, noone can do this for her. Also, she can't do it for you, your children or anyone else. She has to desire recovery for herself.
I don't believe any situation is hopeless. From my experience though I can tell you there are many ups and downs and I believe there always will be. Trust takes time, and in my opinion is earned. Once someone has broken our trust in them, it takes time to rebuilt that trust.
My suggestion to you would be to educate yourself as much as possible about addiction. Participate as much as you can in Al Anon for the support and tools you need in order to not let this disease consume you along with your wife. I'm glad you're here. Read the shares, you'll find you can relate to all of us in some way.
Cilla said
Jan 10, 2006
Welcome to the rooms!
I can relate to your feelings of confusion. The disease(s) that we deal with are what we term baffling, cunning and powerful. But equally we come to realize that we cannot control, cause or cure the addicted one in our life. What I have come to learn is that nothing is quarenteed. I'm not even quarenteed tomorrow, or for the next moment as far as that goes. Recovery is a moment by moment progress, for them and for us. Each one of us has a responsibility to learn what is necessary for our own recoveries. I continue to remain steadfast in my recovery because I continue to work the program of alanon. Should I fail to do that, then no... my recovery certainly is not guarenteed. If my physical health suffers in a way that I have no control over, then my serenity is not quarenteed either. I find that most of life involves risk. I took a risk in staying in my marriage until it was no longer the right thing to do for me. My choice was not to give up, but I choose to not be subject to his cheating. Out of 21 years of that marriage I had been in alanon for 10 of those years... so making that decision was acknowledging that my HP had something much better in mind for me... and He has. I don't regret the years of that marriage, I have three wonderful children from that marriage... I don't feel I wasted time as I also spent a great deal of time growing up in those 21 years. I wouldn't trade those years because they have helped me to become who I am today. I would stronly suggest that you continue to attend meetings as new ideas don't always make a whole lot of sense right away. There are no easy anwswers. No "microwave" fixes per se.
Hang In There!
Cilla
I never said it would be easy....
I just said it would be worth it.
bcanuck said
Jan 10, 2006
Until I'm sure things will be better I'm not going back. But when will I be sure? That's what I'm after... Christopher
Hi Christopher,
Welcome. I am still with my A and will be for the next few years until my kids are grown (safer this way..I know it sounds twisted), so I can't comment on your situation.
Your other comment (above) however, is what life is all about. We can never be sure of anything. Christy said it best that "actions speak louder than words" but as for a guarantee that things will be good again, I don't think that's possible. Even without the addiction, you can't see into tomorrow.
This is a great place and a great group to gather tools to help get you through life..one day at a time. Sometimes you don't even realize you've picked up those tools until you live back. I know it took me years to realize I had them. Keep coming back, and again, welcome.
Bonnie
Cyn said
Jan 11, 2006
Welcome Christopher,
I can relate to the person you love being addicted to prescription pills - I lost my love of my life because he wanted the pills over me. This was early November and I too have moved on in my life. Its a tough process - but the most important thing is that you take care of yourself which is sounds like you are doing very well. Keep coming back here - I have met some amazing people on here who give me the strength to just be good to myself!!
Cyn
Bigus said
Jan 11, 2006
Thank you all for your great words of advice and your input. I can't tell you how much it means to me. I'm usually the problem solver in just about any situation, but I have no answers for the situation that I'm in for the first time in my life.
The decisions I'm up against will affect many lives. I just want to make sure I make the right one. But like you all said, there are guarantee's in life so I'll just take it day to day until I know for sure.
Thanks again,
Christopher
notsonew1111 said
Jan 12, 2006
keep in mind that you dont have to make any decisions today. that always helps me. i have been with my a 7 years and his disease of alcoholism and coke addiction has progressed drastically in the past year. then i found alanon. so im doing much better at handling all of this. he recently has made the decision to attend aa meetings and has been sober since jan 1st this year. i ask myself all the time will he relapse? will he ever get better? but i cant answer this and no one can, only time will tell. during that time i have to tc of myself and enjoy the life i have at this moment in the ways i know how. alanon teaches me how to do this. you are doing a wonderful thing for yourself by coming here. keep coming back :)
your sis in recovery
notsonew:)
Bigus said
Jan 19, 2006
UPDATE:
My wife has been doing very well. She looks forward to her meetings. She attends as much as she can. She has realized what measures she has to take in order for her to be a better person. She is/has cut ties to things that triggers her. I'm still not living with her yet, but we talk regularly and I have visited a few times.
She has stayed clean and is very positive about her life now. I hope that she continues to feel this way. She wants me to come home, but I am still hesitant in doing so. I am sticking to my guns, I have told her that we should continue to take things slowly, maybe by spring that I will move back. If things continue as they are.
The question that I have is putting a time frame on this a bad thing?
I just recently started attending Al-Anon meetings...while I find them very helpful in that I can associate with people that undestand what I have been through. But I truly don't buy into some of the beliefs in the meetings, not that they're bad things, nor do I want to offend anyone..I don't see what I did wrong, I took great care of her, spoiled her rotten, and was a great husband..she'd tell you the same.
To give a little light to the situation; my wife is an addict, she became dependant on prescription drugs over a period of time...she's always been wild and liked to party, very fun to be around, but a few months ago life turned into a living hell...I've seen her slowly decline over a period of a couple of years, but she hit rock bottom in October. She said things to me that should never be forgiven. She forced me to leave and I still have not gone back yet.
I had very little contact with her since then, to be blunt, she was dead to me... Less than a month ago she called me and begged me for forgiveness, stating that she now realizes that she has a problem and was seeking help. I had pretty much already written us off as a couple and was moving on with my life, my son was truly who I was looking out for, but that's a whole other story in itself. She also stated that she needed my help trying to fix herself, so she could fix us.
I told her I'd be a friend and try and help her, but I was not coming home unless I was sure she wouldn't let that ever happen again. Will I ever be sure? I don't know, I guess that's my problem. I do love her still, and I wish it could go back the way it was before. But I'm not sure if that will ever happen.
Has anyone else ever been in this situation? Any advice?
Thank you for reading...
By spoiling someone rotten, you may be doing thing for them that they should be doing themselves. Abliet it altruistic it feeds into their low self esteem cause it feeds into their believe they they can't do these things either. It makes them dependent on you. This also has been offered as some as a definition of enabling. As it takes the enabling behavior far beyond the substance of addiction.
For many of us, we give to the point of not caring for ourselves. This isn't healthy and what I believe i've done is shown others around me that I don't count. I meant to show them they were important but it seems the learned lesson was that I was not. So I give so much that I can't meet my needs, they see that my needs aren't important, and my needs aren't met. Not good for me.
Not sure if any of this made sense or helped. Even if you disagree it might spark more thought.
Bob
First of all, welcome...
Yes, I can relate to pretty much 100% of your post, as my situation was eerily similar...
I actually don't look at Al-Anon in terms of suggesting that we did anything wrong, per se, but that we are "sick", and usually sicker than we accept on the surface. Bottom line that living with, and around, the insanity of alcoholism forces us to use certain coping skills, and it has been my experience that Al-Anon helped me identify these for what they are.... What I choose to do with this new information or skillset is completely up to me....
Part of MY willingness and ability to get better was that I needed to get humbled, and needed to accept that I was as sick as I was. Al-Anon has been great for me, and thousands of others...
Just my opinion
Tom
Thanks for your response Tom.
Since you haved lived or are living in the same situation. I'd love to hear some advice on how to handle my situation. Can I trust her again, or is all of this hopeless?
Thanks again,
Christopher
Thank you Christy, your response was very insightful and helpful.
Depending on how this all works out, I may be single soon ;) So we'll talk about that later...j/k of course.
Seriously though, I refuse to give in like I used to do. My son from a previous marriage does not need to be subjected to that kind of environment again. Until I'm sure things will be better I'm not going back. But when will I be sure? That's what I'm after...
Christopher
Hi Christopher and Welcome,
Al Anon is a great place for you, for all of us who's lives have been affected by alcoholism/addiction. Your wife suffers from the disease of addiction. Her perscription drug use is just a symptom of that disease. They refer to this as a family disease simply because it affects everyone who's lives the addict touches.
This has nothing to do with your wifes morals, lack of love or affection for her family, or you in general. There is something we refer to as the Three C's......You didn't Cause it, You can't Control it and You can't Cure it. *It* being her addiction.
All the things you described that you've done for your wife, under normal circumstances where addiction isn't part of the picture, would simply mean you are a great husband and provider. However when addiction is in the picture all these same things can equal enabling. Enabling is doing anything for someone that they should be capable of doing for themselves. We all fall into this pattern without even realizing it. We see them slacking off, things still need to be done so we naturally pick up their slack and do what needs to be done. This enables them to remain dysfunctional, while at the same time we become more and more resentful because we're doing their jobs as well as our own. Make sense?
What Al Anon does for us is helps us recognize and accept that addiction/alcoholism is in fact a disease. It helps us come to terms with the ways in which we've allowed our lives to become unmanageable because of this disease. It gives us tools to help us make our lives manageable again regardless of what our addicted loved ones are or aren't doing. It helps us recognize enabling and learn how to stop that behavior. It helps us learn how to detach from the disease without fully detaching from the addict, unless we've reached a point where that is unavoidable. By working the 12 steps of this program with a sponsor, we get to know ourselves so much better, we realize which areas of our lives need changing and we learn how to make the necessary changes, we learn how to let go of all the resentments we've built up over the years that we usually don't even know we're holding onto.......and that's just a little bit of what this program can do for us if we work it.
I'm sure you'd like to hear a guarantee that your wife will not repeat her behavior and everything will go back to the way it was.......unfortunately with this disease there are no guarantees. They compare it to diabetes because they are similiar as in it's incurable, but with the proper treatment it can be controlled. Your wife has to make a personal decision that she is sick and tired of being sick and tired and desires recovery. Then she has to take action. The highest sucess rate among addicts is when they work the AA or NA programs of recovery. Go to meetings, get a sponsor, work the steps, abstain from any and all mind altering substances. Only SHE can do this, noone can do this for her. Also, she can't do it for you, your children or anyone else. She has to desire recovery for herself.
I don't believe any situation is hopeless. From my experience though I can tell you there are many ups and downs and I believe there always will be. Trust takes time, and in my opinion is earned. Once someone has broken our trust in them, it takes time to rebuilt that trust.
My suggestion to you would be to educate yourself as much as possible about addiction. Participate as much as you can in Al Anon for the support and tools you need in order to not let this disease consume you along with your wife. I'm glad you're here. Read the shares, you'll find you can relate to all of us in some way.
Welcome to the rooms!
I can relate to your feelings of confusion. The disease(s) that we deal with are what we term baffling, cunning and powerful. But equally we come to realize that we cannot control, cause or cure the addicted one in our life. What I have come to learn is that nothing is quarenteed. I'm not even quarenteed tomorrow, or for the next moment as far as that goes. Recovery is a moment by moment progress, for them and for us. Each one of us has a responsibility to learn what is necessary for our own recoveries. I continue to remain steadfast in my recovery because I continue to work the program of alanon. Should I fail to do that, then no... my recovery certainly is not guarenteed. If my physical health suffers in a way that I have no control over, then my serenity is not quarenteed either. I find that most of life involves risk. I took a risk in staying in my marriage until it was no longer the right thing to do for me. My choice was not to give up, but I choose to not be subject to his cheating. Out of 21 years of that marriage I had been in alanon for 10 of those years... so making that decision was acknowledging that my HP had something much better in mind for me... and He has. I don't regret the years of that marriage, I have three wonderful children from that marriage... I don't feel I wasted time as I also spent a great deal of time growing up in those 21 years. I wouldn't trade those years because they have helped me to become who I am today. I would stronly suggest that you continue to attend meetings as new ideas don't always make a whole lot of sense right away. There are no easy anwswers. No "microwave" fixes per se.
Hang In There!
Cilla
I never said it would be easy....
I just said it would be worth it.
Hi Christopher,
Welcome. I am still with my A and will be for the next few years until my kids are grown (safer this way..I know it sounds twisted), so I can't comment on your situation.
Your other comment (above) however, is what life is all about. We can never be sure of anything. Christy said it best that "actions speak louder than words" but as for a guarantee that things will be good again, I don't think that's possible. Even without the addiction, you can't see into tomorrow.
This is a great place and a great group to gather tools to help get you through life..one day at a time. Sometimes you don't even realize you've picked up those tools until you live back. I know it took me years to realize I had them. Keep coming back, and again, welcome.
Bonnie
Welcome Christopher,
I can relate to the person you love being addicted to prescription pills - I lost my love of my life because he wanted the pills over me. This was early November and I too have moved on in my life. Its a tough process - but the most important thing is that you take care of yourself which is sounds like you are doing very well. Keep coming back here - I have met some amazing people on here who give me the strength to just be good to myself!!
Cyn
Thank you all for your great words of advice and your input. I can't tell you how much it means to me. I'm usually the problem solver in just about any situation, but I have no answers for the situation that I'm in for the first time in my life.
The decisions I'm up against will affect many lives. I just want to make sure I make the right one. But like you all said, there are guarantee's in life so I'll just take it day to day until I know for sure.
Thanks again,
Christopher
keep in mind that you dont have to make any decisions today. that always helps me. i have been with my a 7 years and his disease of alcoholism and coke addiction has progressed drastically in the past year. then i found alanon. so im doing much better at handling all of this. he recently has made the decision to attend aa meetings and has been sober since jan 1st this year. i ask myself all the time will he relapse? will he ever get better? but i cant answer this and no one can, only time will tell. during that time i have to tc of myself and enjoy the life i have at this moment in the ways i know how. alanon teaches me how to do this. you are doing a wonderful thing for yourself by coming here. keep coming back :)
your sis in recovery
notsonew:)
UPDATE:
My wife has been doing very well. She looks forward to her meetings. She attends as much as she can. She has realized what measures she has to take in order for her to be a better person. She is/has cut ties to things that triggers her. I'm still not living with her yet, but we talk regularly and I have visited a few times.
She has stayed clean and is very positive about her life now. I hope that she continues to feel this way. She wants me to come home, but I am still hesitant in doing so. I am sticking to my guns, I have told her that we should continue to take things slowly, maybe by spring that I will move back. If things continue as they are.
The question that I have is putting a time frame on this a bad thing?
Thanks for everyones support.
Christopher