I have a dear friend, Maria, whom I do love with all my heart. Maria has no family save one cousin who lives here in San Antonio, so when my husband and I decided to call San Antonio home, Maria sold her home in Albuquerque and followed soon after. Her reasoning was because we and her cousin are here and she wanted to be near all of us. I will admit, when she first began talking about relocating to San Antonio, I was positive about it. I told her that I knew she would like this city, and that she and I could have a great time together. I suppose I influenced her, but we must take responsibility for our own choices. Now that she is here, she is helpless and my husband must do everything from give her a new mouse for her computer to repaid her furnace. (He is HVAC certified.) She can do nothing for herself, and is about as foolish as anyone I have ever known. She cannot think out a problem...just comes whining to us. Certainly I do not mind a bit of this, but it is an every day occurrence!!! To top it all off, she regards me shabbily, while all the time saying that she loves me more than anyone else in the world. I do not treat the people I love in such an uncaring manner. I drive her everywhere, and offer to take her with me on shopping trips. We entertain her regularly. She is moody, and I never know how I am going to find her. All the way from on top of the world to suicidal!! I would like to stop seeing her, but I feel guilty that she is here in the first place. My husband says I should let her unkindness roll off my back, but I am not a person who can do that. I am easily hurt, and hurt stays with me.
OK kiddies. What do I do? How can I dump the guilt? I have other friends, but she hasn't any. HELP!!!
tea2 said
Dec 18, 2005
Hmm Diva, I will need to think on this one. From what I read your “friend” sounds like she has a depression problem and is definitely taking advantage of you and your husbands goodwill. You are not the type to mince words -also you appear to have a very dear kind heart. Perhaps mention a few “helpful” things for her to do for “herself” You may need to be blunt, say what you mean, mean what you say and don’t say it mean. Very unfortunate that “you” should feel guilt for her life. She should be responsible for her own happiness, you or anyone obviously can’t give her that. She should be grateful for all the concern you have given and shown. IMO. Good luck, Care and wishes, Tracey PS, forgot to add we tend to be "fixers and people pleasers" by nature.
-- Edited by tea2 at 14:06, 2005-12-18
kitty said
Dec 18, 2005
((((( Diva))))) This relationship sounds terribly co-dep. I'm ACOA, it osunds like you have some of the characteristics, like the need for caretaking; not wanting to hurt her feelings at the expense of your own; trying to take on the responsibility of how she feels even.
It sounds like the type of relationship we have with our A's, tip-toeing around. For example I know my ex-husaband loved me in his very sick & toxic way but he didn't love himself, kept pushing me harder & harder - abusing me to see how much he could take from me until, it was do or die. I was so sick psychologically, spiritually, mentally, emotionally.
One thing I am constantly reminded when I come to this Board & to my CAL, is that love is a verb, it is an action. Love yourself, be gentle, set some boundaires. Sounds like she is taking advantage & distrupting your serenity.
We can all help each other but (as it is said) God helps those that help themselves. IMHO
love, -K
Karilynn said
Dec 18, 2005
((((((((((Diva)))))))))))))),
What would you say to someone who was in the same boat? Take the you out of the post, and replace it with me if you like. Sometimes standing back and looking at it as if it is someone else gives you the perspective you need. What would you say to me if I had posted that? You're a smart woman I know you have the answer in there. Let it come.
There's a difference between being needy (as in do me a favor please) and being used. Often it is easier to ask the question, and get the answer rather than figuring it out for herself. My colleagues at work do this all the time. I know they know the answer, but they either lack the confidence to tell me what it is, or they're too lazy to figure it out. Once I started asking them to tell me the answer they realized that they had to figure it out. They ask me a lot less now.
Honestly a friend does not treat another friend the way she has you. Unless she's a blood relative would there be any harm in distancing yourself from her? She's not related to your husband right? You shouldn't feel guilty about anything. Relationships including friendships can grow old and stale. Some we out grow. Maybe it's time for you to move on from her. If she's not bringing anything positive to your life, why have her in it?
Live strong,
Karilynn
leo said
Dec 18, 2005
Diva I see definite Leo tendencies in this post. We like to help others and don't like to see the underdog get trodden on but we also do not suffer fools gladly who don't appear to be helping themselves. Often their lack of independence leads us to despair. In the old days when I was much younger whenever someone asked if I would do them a favour I would always answer yes without even knowing what they were going to ask of me. I learnt the hard way that I had to stand up for myself because people naturally take advantage of the situation. These days my answer would be what is it first? You did not hold a gun to your friend's head when she chose to move to the same town as you. She is never going to stand on her own two feet and get a life while you are providing everything for her. Does she have a licence? Maybe you can start with you can pick me up and we will go shopping? I had a dear friend who I was always rescuing and she too was a whiner about things that others would think petty. The friendship has run its course and I realize now that it was not equal. I was always there for her being the giver and she was always the taker. You can still retain the friendship but you need to set it on your own terms. Luv your fellow Leox
Jill said
Dec 18, 2005
((( Diva ))) it feels like blackmail to me. Geographical blackmail or emotional, I don't know. She is atrophying by not working her own life. You and your capable husband are not responsible for her.
What if it were your grown children coming to the two of you for every bump life presents?
Can you wean her from such helplessness?
The older we get, I see my sister turning to helplessness too. It's not a medical decline. Somewhere she just decided it's a good idea not to learn or do or confront, etc. She tries it on me, and I mirror it back to her. We live across the country from each other, but she is not hesitant to ask for me to confront people in her town, companies she feels were not fair, etc. I let her know for each "assignment" I don't accept, I won't ask her to do that for me next time it's my turn. She doesn't think that's a good deal LOL.
Can you coat yourself in teflon when you see her on your callerID? Just because she moved to your town does not oblige you to do for her.
Then you can feel free to socialize with her - when YOU want it.
It's tough at first.
I think it's on the subject, because knowing what's ours and what isn't helps me SO much. ------ Jill
Powerless said
Dec 18, 2005
Maybe you could take her to some do-it-yourself work shops or mental health instead of shopping. She sounds as if she could have a depressive disorder or bipolar disorder. DOn't let her manipulate you. She will continue to depend on you and your husband if she never has to learn to do anything for herself. Encourage her to talk out problems and maybe she will come up with solutions. She may just need reassurance and encouragement. It does not sound like a healthy relationship for either of you.
Flora123 said
Dec 18, 2005
Dear Diva,
Thank you so much for posting this. I know it is pathetic, but, I find it hard to shake off the notion that all Alanoners know all the program, and I am the only learner!!!! You have helped me many times, on these boards.
I have so much respect for you, and, have thought about what you said. In the end, all we can offer people is the program and the meetings. Your friend sounds like she needs them both. In a way, it makes me squirm - some people think I am strong, but, I have behaved a bit like your friend at times (no way would I move house, though! not just to be near a stronger person). And, a cautionary note, my daughter had a stalker (an A) who made our lives misery.
I know, from your previous posts, you do know the answers, detachment, boundaries, not being too available when someone takes advantage - you are one of us, Diva, you know how we can pick up lame ducks, part of our sickness.
Detach with love, Diva, you know it makes sense.
Lots of love
Flora
xxxx
jonibaloni21 said
Dec 18, 2005
Hi Diva,
My ex sister-in-law was very much like your maria. But, if someone got enough of her using them, she'd move on to the next person suprisingly. She never missed a beat, just like clockwork she found another to do the same way. She used to keep me out all day in the car going places and doing things with her and her kids, her husband worked 2nd shift and she didn't like being home alone with the kids at night till he got home. If I insisted I needed to go home , she just invited her and her kids to my house for dinner.....every night! Finally , my husband , her own brother said enough! It made her mad at first , but then she found a lady at her church to go with her! Then when that lady told her she had her own responcibilities , she took her MOM to all these places with her!!! on and on !!!! Some people make a life of doing others that way , they are very co-dependent and they have to be enabled to do it! As long as you and your husband keep doing for her, I'm sure she'll let you, but you have to find it within yourself to say enough! Or ease her into going places with others , start going to church or a group with her and then after a few times , let her go on her own because of other plans coming up at the last minute , or just because you want to take a day off from it. She'll learn she can make her own friends too. And maybe won't count on yall so much. Just a thought or two. Hope this helps.
Jonibaloni21
BlueCloud said
Dec 18, 2005
Dear Diva,
I've had good friends that have stomped all over my boundaries and yet I've had the most difficult time figuring out what to say, especially when there are lot of violations, and I've let things slide for quite a while. Sometimes, I'm tempted to just call an end to the whole friendship. But, for good friends, I've found it worth it to actually tell them directly how I feel and give them a chance to correct course. I've found that this has worked well for me and saved the loss of some very dear friends.
Of course, if my friends had continued to disrespect my boundaries, then I would have rightfully distanced myself, but I didn't just want to drop them like hot potatoes (as much as that's exactly what I felt like doing before I addressed the matter with them).
If your friend is struggling with mental health issues (and not just a case of bad manners), you might encourage her to get professional help.
BlueCloud
Diva said
Dec 19, 2005
Thanks to all of you who offered a reply. You are all right! Blue Cloud, I can so relate to your reply. I do not want to hurt my friend. She suffers from mental health issues, and I have tried my best to encourage her to seek help, but alas, she finds no need for that. I know I should confront her with my feelings. I am such a wuss!! All of you are giving me the courage I need to stand up to what I see as abuse. WOW!!! The situations in which we become emeshed when we choose to hide our true feelings from someone we care about. I know there is a gentle way to go about this, but in the end, I must begin to see her less and less. I must take care of ME! Sound familiar?
Hugs to all, Diva
rosie light shines said
Dec 19, 2005
is she at least 21??? (can make own decisions) did you stick a gun to her head and say "MOVE with us??"......
unless you influenced/forced a KID, who was dependent on you, it is NOT your inventory......
i smell she is taking advantage of your kind heart.......i think AMENDS are in order here, and i mean amends that you need to make for U.....yes, helping friend is one thing, but this one i think has found someone to "latch on" to......if it were me??? i would sit her down and set some SERIOUS BOUNDARIES.....if she can't handle it??? its not your problem..........good luck, i know this is hard, i have had to do what i said , the thing about boundaries........as long as i know i did not use force OR influence a mentally retarded person to make a life change...i am not at fault...........peace / R
mebjk said
Dec 23, 2005
I read your post and all the answers, and I'm just learning to use this board, so I'll send along my thoughts. Thanks for putting your dilemma out there for all of us. It sounds to me, too, as though the issue is boundaries. I've learned that when my personal boundaries are violated, I feel anger. Maybe taking time to sort through your own feelings is part of thinking about how to set boundaries with her.
I am in a helping profession and it has been so hard for me to learn that some people 1) don't really want the help they really need. If they did want it, they'd find a way to get it... and, 2) they are really beyond my ability to "help," even if I did know how to help them. I'm a good co-, so needy people want to hook up to me easily. And mostly because I don't easily set my own boundaries, and/or stick to them.
Trust yourself. Listen to yourself. That's what I've been learning lately.
Thanks to you all for being here. It makes my life so much better.
mebjk
Hmm Diva, I will need to think on this one.
From what I read your “friend” sounds like she has a depression problem and is definitely taking advantage of you and your husbands goodwill.
You are not the type to mince words -also you appear to have a very dear kind heart.
Perhaps mention a few “helpful” things for her to do for “herself” You may need to be blunt, say what you mean, mean what you say and don’t say it mean.
Very unfortunate that “you” should feel guilt for her life. She should be responsible for her own happiness, you or anyone obviously can’t give her that. She should be grateful for all the concern you have given and shown. IMO.
Good luck, Care and wishes, Tracey
PS, forgot to add we tend to be "fixers and people pleasers" by nature.
-- Edited by tea2 at 14:06, 2005-12-18
((((( Diva))))) This relationship sounds terribly co-dep. I'm ACOA, it osunds like you have some of the characteristics, like the need for caretaking; not wanting to hurt her feelings at the expense of your own; trying to take on the responsibility of how she feels even.
It sounds like the type of relationship we have with our A's, tip-toeing around. For example I know my ex-husaband loved me in his very sick & toxic way but he didn't love himself, kept pushing me harder & harder - abusing me to see how much he could take from me until, it was do or die. I was so sick psychologically, spiritually, mentally, emotionally.
One thing I am constantly reminded when I come to this Board & to my CAL, is that love is a verb, it is an action. Love yourself, be gentle, set some boundaires. Sounds like she is taking advantage & distrupting your serenity.
We can all help each other but (as it is said) God helps those that help themselves. IMHO
love, -K
((( Diva ))) it feels like blackmail to me. Geographical blackmail or emotional, I don't know. She is atrophying by not working her own life. You and your capable husband are not responsible for her.
What if it were your grown children coming to the two of you for every bump life presents?
Can you wean her from such helplessness?
The older we get, I see my sister turning to helplessness too. It's not a medical decline. Somewhere she just decided it's a good idea not to learn or do or confront, etc. She tries it on me, and I mirror it back to her. We live across the country from each other, but she is not hesitant to ask for me to confront people in her town, companies she feels were not fair, etc. I let her know for each "assignment" I don't accept, I won't ask her to do that for me next time it's my turn. She doesn't think that's a good deal LOL.
Can you coat yourself in teflon when you see her on your callerID? Just because she moved to your town does not oblige you to do for her.
Then you can feel free to socialize with her - when YOU want it.
It's tough at first.
I think it's on the subject, because knowing what's ours and what isn't helps me SO much. ------ Jill
Hi Diva,
My ex sister-in-law was very much like your maria. But, if someone got enough of her using them, she'd move on to the next person suprisingly. She never missed a beat, just like clockwork she found another to do the same way. She used to keep me out all day in the car going places and doing things with her and her kids, her husband worked 2nd shift and she didn't like being home alone with the kids at night till he got home. If I insisted I needed to go home , she just invited her and her kids to my house for dinner.....every night! Finally , my husband , her own brother said enough! It made her mad at first , but then she found a lady at her church to go with her! Then when that lady told her she had her own responcibilities , she took her MOM to all these places with her!!! on and on !!!! Some people make a life of doing others that way , they are very co-dependent and they have to be enabled to do it! As long as you and your husband keep doing for her, I'm sure she'll let you, but you have to find it within yourself to say enough! Or ease her into going places with others , start going to church or a group with her and then after a few times , let her go on her own because of other plans coming up at the last minute , or just because you want to take a day off from it. She'll learn she can make her own friends too. And maybe won't count on yall so much. Just a thought or two. Hope this helps.
Jonibaloni21
Dear Diva,
I've had good friends that have stomped all over my boundaries and yet I've had the most difficult time figuring out what to say, especially when there are lot of violations, and I've let things slide for quite a while. Sometimes, I'm tempted to just call an end to the whole friendship. But, for good friends, I've found it worth it to actually tell them directly how I feel and give them a chance to correct course. I've found that this has worked well for me and saved the loss of some very dear friends.
Of course, if my friends had continued to disrespect my boundaries, then I would have rightfully distanced myself, but I didn't just want to drop them like hot potatoes (as much as that's exactly what I felt like doing before I addressed the matter with them)
.
If your friend is struggling with mental health issues (and not just a case of bad manners), you might encourage her to get professional help.
BlueCloud
is she at least 21??? (can make own decisions) did you stick a gun to her head and say "MOVE with us??"......
unless you influenced/forced a KID, who was dependent on you, it is NOT your inventory......
i smell she is taking advantage of your kind heart.......i think AMENDS are in order here, and i mean amends that you need to make for U.....yes, helping friend is one thing, but this one i think has found someone to "latch on" to......if it were me??? i would sit her down and set some SERIOUS BOUNDARIES.....if she can't handle it??? its not your problem..........good luck, i know this is hard, i have had to do what i said , the thing about boundaries........as long as i know i did not use force OR influence a mentally retarded person to make a life change...i am not at fault...........peace / R