I think I have a pretty good understanding of alcoholism.  What I'm having trouble understanding is the "sober alcoholic," and I'm not to the point yet where I feel like I can trust my own instincts.

My boyfriend is 15 years sober, we've been seeing eachother for about 6 months.  We have a so much fun together.  He treats me like a princess.  But lately I've been feeling very alone up on my pedistal.  I don't feel like he's ever just with me.  In the car the radio is always on and cranked up, we go to a lot of concerts (no communication going on there with the music blasting), at his place it's the TV.  If he doesn't have anything to say to me that's fine, but I can't be in a relationship like that.  I need a little more communication.  I understand he gets very antsy and is always on the go, no sitting around. It just seems like the only time we are alone together, without a ton of outside factors is when we have sex, make love, whatever.  It's beautiful, but that's just not enough.  He's got lots of women friends, and they didn't used to threaten me, but now I just wonder, "Is he confiding in them," am I just like a companion that he can take places like company parties, concerts, you know, date kind of functions.

I'd talk to my sponser about this if I had one, but I'm presently between sponsers.  I'm not sure if I should talk to him about this or what I would even say if I did. 

Maybe this is typical sober alcoholic stuff.  Maybe living one day at a time means you don't develop opinions on issues, like politics or the state of the environment.  I've never had a sober one before, can anyone shed some light for me, this is actually beginning to cause me pain.

Thanks

 

((((((aj))))))))

Hmmm All I can say is I am glad you are here sharing about your  problems..That is totally good...I hope things work out for you...I am sure they will.Things are just tough right now, they too shall pass

 

Lauren~

Hi,

It is called the dry drunk syndrome. No alcohol but emotionally under developed. There is an article on the Minnesota page (sorry I can't remember the whole website). So just google "The Dry Drunk Syndrome". It explains a lot. My husband hasn't drank in 22 years but living with him sober especially the last five years as been difficult.

You just need to focus on yourself and your recovery. The disease of alcoholism takes charge and we are as powerless as if they are drinking. Also, in How Alanon Works book. Hope this helps.

In support,

Nancy

Maybe that's just the way he is, just like 'normal' healthy people have different comfort levels of sharing intimacy. Does this behavior have to be related to sobriety just because he is an alcoholic in recovery?

Just a thought....

Lou

you could also try reading the family afterwards in the big book of aa

I'm not sure if this link will cover any of your concerns but someone once posted this link on dry drunk syndrome that I saved. 

http://www.minnesotarecovery.info/literature/drydrunk.htm

Bob

Avril,

I really appreciated your post! I think what your describing is a yearning for a type of intimacy and a desire for your boyfriend to really be "present" in the relationship. And, it sounds like, he seems to constantly be interested in/distracted by/paying attention to something outside of the relationship (music, etc.), and is therefore "absent" from the relationship. It makes sense, that on the one hand you have a great time with him, and on the other hand you feel alone.

One of the readings that helped me on this issue is Pia Mellody's book "Love Addiction." She describes two types, a love addict and an avoidance addict. The latter, doesn't engage in intimacy because they distract themselves constantly. She labels it as a type of abandonment of the relationship. Although it didn't give me any solutions for how I could fix my partner (LOL), I found it useful in that it validated this feeling of consistent aloneness that I couldn't quite put my finger on, and helped me take my own feelings seriously.

I hope this is helpful!

BlueCloud

Who knows, it might be somehow connected to his disease, as a lack of emotional maturity is certainly common among alcoholics, especially if he is just 'not drinking' as opposed to 'sober' - that is, really working on himself. Many alcoholics are emotionally unavailable. It might just be how he is, not everybody is comfortable with or needs the same level of intimacy. All of that is really kinda beside the point. Your focus needs to be on what you are going to do about it. Probably a good first step would be to talk to him about it. You can tell a lot from his response, whether this would be something that the two of you could work on together, or whether he doesn't even acknowledge a problem, or blames you for it, or....? Then you can decide what to do from there - how important is this relationship to you, if it turns out that the chances are that this will never get any better? Would you want to find other ways to have emotional intimacy in your life, and stay with him for what you get from the relationship, or would it be better to move on and know now that this is a deal breaker for you? Only you can answer those questions, and you may not know the answers right away. There is nothing wrong with you for wanting more intimacy - just as he has the right to be the way HE is, you have the right to be the way, and have the needs, that YOU have. Keep the focus on YOU - am I happy? are there changes I could make to my own behaviour that would make me more happy? and eventually it will become clearer.

Just wondering... Have you mentioned this to him? Sometimes people (notice I didn't say "men"..lol) are clueless as to what their partner needs/wants unless you actually "say it" to them. It's possible he doesn't even realize that he's doing it or it's a problem for you. I kind of have to agree with Uncle Lou here...It doesn't necessarily have anything to do with alcoholism. Christy

Thanks to everyone...

Some of you were absolutely right, it may not have anything to do with the disease.  But as alcoholics are told not to take the first drink, being a part of this program has taught me "don't take the first think."  Like I said, I'm not always sure when to trust my instincts.

Some of you mentioned the "dry drunk" theory, and while I've known many of these in my life, Danny isn't one.  He works his program like a champ, he attends 3 meeting per week regularly and has commitments, he sponsors and is sponsored, plays sober softball, very involved and very spiritual.

Christy...I think you are right on the $.  I haven't really mentioned it to him.  In the past there have been a few things that have bothered me and when I've had the nerve to address them he has always been totally willing to change the things he can and tell me the truth about things he can't.  He hadn't had a girlfriend for a while and told me up front he was out of practice.  My problem is that I don't want to sound like I'm nagging or trying to change him or manipulate in any way. 

I was just wondering, yet again, if I'm just nuts.  Thanks so much...I love you all!!!

Jane,

There's lots in the Alanon Daily Readers about "Getting our needs met."  Read on :).

I find using this simple sentence with anyone from whom I need something really works.

I felt sad and lonely when we are together, for example. - we are talking about our feelings which cannot be discounted ~ we are talking about ourselves rather than say you do or don't do this or that and it's short and sweet, direct and to the point.  And that's makes for a good communication tool.

Keep posting,

Maria

Hi Jane,

What you shared really touched me on a personal level.  Rarely do I have the time to reply to any post in a way that takes more than a few moments.  However, what I have recently experienced in my relationship is identical to what you describe, except I'm the shoe on the other foot.  I'm just a few weeks short of 16 years clean and sober.  My girlfriend who I love with everything in my heart felt exactly what you are describing.  She felt isolated, abandoned, alone.  Please bare with me as I try to explain what transpired, where I was at emotionally, mentally, and spiritually.

As stated above, I have 15 years sobriety, working on gaining my 16th year pretty soon. (Dec. 21st).  Just over a year ago, I fell I was truly blessed with the gift of a wonderful woman in my life.  I tried to be present and available to her in the ways I could, understood, knew how to, etc.  And I fell myseribly short.  See, my life has been so full for so long, that there was barely enough room in it for me, no less her or us.  I sponsor a lot of newer members in both AA and NA, I own my own business, (pressure washing and painting houses) which takes a great amount of time from any real home life, and I am the founder of both the Miracles In Progress 12 Step Recover Forums website and a Recovery House for alcoholics and addicts in the early stages of recovery.

At the time we started dating, I was working as a case manager at a shelter for homeless families with minor children, part time.  I lived on the premises, in an area that was destinated for staff housing, away from the other workers and clients.  Rent free.  Well, rent free in that the housing was in trade for night time security of the building.  With my paycheck I also got a disability check each month from Social Security.  So, I didn't have any money problems as a single man, I had no family around me, no lady in my life, no one that I had to be accountable to or responsible for, outside of my work environment.  My life was very busy non the less.  My cell phone rang non stop.  So many calls coming in from sponsees; families that had graduated from the shelter I worked at; active drunks and addicts who were referred to me when they were ready to get some help and enter the world of recovery.  Also, a number of females with a pyschological disorder called Dissociative Identity Disorder (formerly called Multiple Personality Disorder) related to childhood sexual abuses etc.  My being Mr. Recovery, The Leaning Post, Internal Group Organizer, and Everyone's Helper.... left very little room for anything other than exhaustion.  Feeling drained, overwhelmed.  But for me, a sober alcoholic and drug free addict to stop helping others in need, which was the bulk of my life in recovery, and to simply say "No", or not be available to someone in need was met with a sense of guilt.  My brain would always say..."what if someone had said that to me 15 years ago? Where would I be today?"

My girlfriend went to a NA meeting asking for help for her husband and many of the people she talked to said she needed to talk to me and get her husband and I together.  So, I met my girlfriend as a result of trying to sponsor her opiate, methadon addicted husband for a number of months unsucessfully.  Eventually he ended up OD'ing in their front yard while she was at work one day.  An ambulance took him to a hospital, from which he was moved to a psych center, from which he was moved to jail (for threatening to kill her and nurse upon his release) and from there to a out of state, 18 month treatment program that he only lasted at for 3 days before leaving.  Because of his addiction, rent hadn't been paid, electric was off, etc. at their home.  An eviction notice was on the door....  My heart went out to this woman and as the Case Manager of this shelter I could provide her with transitional housing, so I offered.  As she and I got to know eachother, things started to unfold emotionally for us.  I was very attracted to her.  Well, to make a short story shorter, I ended up helping her rent a room at a friends house, so as to not create a conflict of interest with her as a client at my place of employment and started to pursue a relationship with her.  For the first few months, we were sewn together at the hips, passion exploded in the presence of one another.  Within 90 days we rented a nice apartment together and life took off....

As a part of my recovery I had developed the idea that a major role for men in a comitted, intimate relationship was to be the "main source" of financial support or the "provider".  I couldn't do this on a part time income and a disability check, not the way I wanted to provide for this woman.  A situation unfolded at the work place that was no longer acceptable to me, I went to the board of directors with it, as it entailed both criminal and civil liabilities that I wanted no part in, and ultimately I ended up having to leave the job.  This sparked a bout of financial insecurity in the woman I had fallen madly in love with.  She had spent most of her adult life supporting the men in her life and my leaving this job triggered all her financial issues.  Well, being the almighty "fix it" guy, I immediately started a business pressure washing houses.  It took off in a big way, and not only was the pressure washing end of it successful, but it expanded rather quickly into also a home painting business.  Without going into a lot of detail, it grew so fast, that I ended up employing 3-5 people over the past 8 months to keep up with the work that was coming in.  Who did I employ?  Recovering alcoholics and addicts in the early stages of recovery... which turned out to cost me far more than it has made me.  However, all things considered, I have done very well financially in my new business venture.  As a result I made enough extra money that I opened the Miracles In Progress Recovery House, which also contributes to my monthly income, but with it comes alot of expense, responsibility, time and work.  Not to mention more outsiders in my life on a daily basis.

I would get up around 7:00-7:30am head out the door to work, get home after dark, and then have to run out the door again to go to a meeting for myself, take a new person to a meeting, go to the Recovery House and resolve an issue there, or do any number of other things that my life had become enriched with as a direct result of my own recovery.

Instead of being able to celebrate the few moments we did have together, I came home to a angry, hurting, lonely, depressed woman that felt she had been captured and abandoned at the same time.  When she mentioned anything about herself, her needs and wants it was not very descriptive.  "I miss you"... would be met with a "I miss you too sweetie, I promise we'll spend some time together this weekend"... "I'm lonely"... "Why don't you go to some Al-Anon meetings and make some friends?" or even worsely taken was my ... "and what are you willing to do about it? (recovery based response).  I failed to understand that I had gotten into a relationship with a untreated Al-Anon.  A woman whose sole purpose for existing was the men in her life.  A woman who because of the men in her life, didn't have any of her own personal friendships.  No social outlets whatsoever.  Her role in life was waiting.. waiting for a man to get a job, waiting for a man to get sober or clean, waiting for a man to spend time with her, waiting for a man to keep his word... waiting for a man to come home.  By the time I got her she was sick and tired of waiting for her needs and wants to be met, tired of not really being heard when she spoke, tired of feeling alone, isolated, abandoned.  I did not realize how deeply and adversely she was being effected by my not being more present and available to her.  My solution to her immediate complaint was to sit next to her, hold her hand, spend 10 minutes next to her, and try to smooth things over before I had to run out the door again to meet someone else's need, or cater to another obligation or responsibility....  I had no clue just how deeply ingrained her feelings of lonliness, abandonment, and isolation were.

Yet, I was absolutely IN LOVE with her, head over heels... and I couldn't see or feel the pain she was in because of my desire to ambitiously provide for her, for her to never again see another eviction notice or cut off notice of a utility etc.  She was sooo proud of my opening the Miracles In Progress Recovery House, that she invested her own time and energy in helping get furniture, dishes, etc donated to it from a varity of sources.  I was building a great business that would only grow, by living it, dreaming it, eating it, thinking it, researching it, 24 hours a day, and I was able to do what I love most to do, help newcomers in recovery.  In both my business and in the Recovery House.  So, I was able to show her that she never had to worry about her man being unemployed or not being able to provide adquately for her and she told me numerous times how proud she was of me for having built the Miracles In Progress web site and opening the MIP Recovery House... but I didn't hear her when she told me in her own, three word sentences......"I need you to fit me into your life John"....

I was out looking at houses, so I could pick 3-4 that I could afford and then take her to see them so she could pick which one she wanted me to buy or rent for her.  I was making payments on a nice electronic organ so it could be moved into the house on the day we signed the lease or mortage on the new place, as she has played piano since childhood.  At her request I had paid an attorney to proceed with her divorce so we could be married, and I had bought her a beautiful engagement ring and asked her to marry me.

In my heart and in my minds eye, Life was looking sooo good, so promising for us, ...

But in her heart and mind there was no "us"...

Rather recently I found out through a 3rd party that she was leaving, and not only leaving, but starting an affair.... and using my unavailability, not being present and participating in a relationship with her as her reason for it.

I was absolutely crushed, tore up from the floor up, a basket case from neck up...

I begged her to come home, told her how much I love her, that I didn't realize how adversely she was being effected by my endeavors, ambitions, etc...  She came back to me after a week of being away... and that is when the real work for me began... trying to rebuild my trust... trying to let go of the hurt and anger, trying to rebuild the excitement, enthusism, and ambition I had to succeed, to provide comfort, trying to rebuild a crushed heart, trying... trying... and its a struggle... But I love her to this very day with my whole being, that is one thing she doesn't have the power to damage or dent... my love for her.  She too is trying to do her part, going to Al-Anon meetings, doing some other social things related to a woman's church group, got a Al-Anon sponsor, running with me to job sites, etc... She is not sitting on the side lines waiting any more... She is starting to learn how to really live, not wait on someone else to live their life and fit her into it.

Jane, if leaving becomes the only option you can visualize as a solution... leave to a safe place, to a place with a female friend, with family... don't leave having tried to establish a relationship before hand as an escape route... it will make any amends process, healing and rebuilding so much harder... For both of you.

You can take care of YOU... you can't fix him... don't wait on him to meet your needs, find healthy, safe ways to meet them.  Develope your own life so his life doesn't become your life. And most importantly... cherish and celebrate your moments together... no matter how many or few there are.  Let go of holding him responsible for your mental, emotional or spiritual well being.  They are YOURS... your responsibility.

 I shared with my girlfriend something that sounds harsh but is sooo true...

"We are suppose to share both our lives together, not share one of our lives together.  In order to do this... we both need to have lives that are independent of each other, but compliment us as a couple."  My life needs to become less exclusive, and her life needs to become more inclusive...

Self Care is not exclusive, leaving others out... but it has to include YOURSELF.

John

May God Guide you to the answers and solutions that work for you and bring both of you to your highest good.

 

 

-- Edited by John at 23:07, 2005-12-03

Jane,

My bf is 17 years sober and he still struggles with intimate emotional sharing, and his level of competency there comes and goes depending on how safe he feels or how mentally or emotionally extended he is in other areas of his life (at work, with his daughter, etc.). My experience is that if my life is otherwise full, what he has to give me is always enough. It is when I am putting all my eggs in his fragile alcoholic basket that problems develop.

My relationship is only successful because of the programs of AA and AlAnon-- Al-Anon has taught me that I can and must be the captain of my own happiness, and that I do not have to have all my needs and expectations for companionship met by one single individual person-- not by a parent, not by a significant other, not by a very best friend. The pressure I used to put on my mom or on the person I was dating or my girlfriends, making them feel they were responsible for my happiness, was crushing, smothering, as was the laser beam focus of my constant demanding attention and emotional neediness. Al-Anon gives me a constructive outlet for my neediness, a fellowship of auxiliary backup companions, and something else to focus my attention on besides what I think the close people in my life should be doing. All my close relationships benefit from my program when I am effectively working it and am self supporting, emotionally speaking, through my own contributions.

Open AA meetings helped me understand more of what the alcoholic experience is like as well, and I recommend them highly as a resource for anyone trying to understand their alcoholic partner's perspective.

By saying you have 'never had a sober one before,' I assume you have had partners who were still actively in their disease. The sober experience is definitely different and can be beautiful  but is still not perfect, so check your motives and your expectations in the situation, and when you find a new sponsor, take a look at this pain you are experiencing with them. In the meantime, remember that sometimes pain and discomfort are only signs that we are learning to do something new, and are more a part of adjustment than a sign that we need to make major overhauls.

Good luck, Emmie

 

I tried to respond the other day but for some reason my computer at work would not send any data.

I just want to send a quick note of huge gratitude and love to everyone who responded here, but especially John and Emmie.  It meant so much to me that you took the time to share so much of yourselves.  I know everyone gets busy and taking the time to share so much is hard sometimes, especially when you type as slow as I do.

But thank to everyone who shares on the message board; You are another blessing to be thankful for.