Hi,

Okay, my husband has been doing his IOP program. I am trying to stay out of his program, but I have some concerns about the family.

He is so much worse instead of better. I realize this is normal. He has justified himslef that everything is my fault. But what else is new. He has justified that he should not have to take any responsibility for this family, including financial. He says there are two reasons. One he is supposd to only worry about himself, and two I should take responsibility for my actions. I put him out so the consequenses are that I have no finacial support for the kids from him. He said he is not supposed to wrk as it is too dificult for him to concentrate on his recovery.

Today he told me of a situation discussed in group. He said a young man of about 23 was speaking of his girlfriend and her parents. He said they where seperated for Thanksgiving as she went with her parents and he with his. He said they had issues about it, and was told that it was up to the girl to rspect his parents and that since she had a problem with it, as his parents where his family, she is the one in hte wrong. He was to worry about nothing else and take care of himself. My husband said see, the counselor agrees that the problem is hers becasue his parents are his family. I told my husband that we are talking about a boy a few years older than our son. I said this is a young man in a new relationship in his early twenties, I said you are a forty year old man with children. I said the situations are not even remotely similar. He said I was wrong, age makes no difference.

He then went on to say how unfair and abusive I was to have made him leave. He sai he explained it in group, how he lost his job because of an accident and was on unemployment and doing everythinbg around the house, but it isn't enough for his wife. he said they said I am abusive and never satisfied. I told him the accident was 5 years ago. I said you lost this job for drinking on the job, you are not on unemployment as they have not fully approved it yet. I asked what he does around the house, and he agan said everything. I said name something. he said he is a regular Mr Mom. He then went on to say how much money he made at his previouse job a few years back, and that it is unfair of me not to be more reasonable of the salary cut. After all he was hurt. Yes he was hurt on the job, and could not return to it. What he forgets is he and the guys he was working with where drunk when it happened. He received a settlement after a few years, and drank it away. First of all he never had a decent year. I could show him the taxes to prove it, but I doubt it would help. He always took massive amounts of time off, cutting our income to shreds. He says he always had great attendance. I told him he had apparently lied and he said, no, I told it as it was.

This man is rewriting history, and the horrible part is that he seems to believe it and he is getting advice to throw in my face based on lies and half truths.

I know it is very early on, but it seems he is getting nastier and more judgemental and pushing all the blame off on me even more. He also seems to feel no guilt at not supporting hte kids, in fact he now seems justified.

Is this all normal. How much worse can it get? He is not drinking, how can he believe these lies he has himself convinced of?

He is insisting he needs to come home and he wants to see the kids more. I cannot have this lying lunatic around my children.

                                                                   Love Jeannie

((((((((Jeannie)))))))))))

My A sometimes tells stories also.  I have learned they he is sometimes a "legend in his own mind"  LOL Sometimes he forgets he told me a "story" and then I overhear him tell his "story" different then what he told me.  At first it use to bother me a lot.  But now, I know the truth, my HP knows the truth, and my a knows the truth.  He thinks he is fooling someone, but he's not.  Hang in there.

Hugs Mary

Jeannie,

From reading your posts I really can identify with the pain you're in. Let my give you something from a different perspective to think about. From my experience, this disease distorts everyone's reality to some extent. I realize, after I got sober, how distorted my view of my world was. I justified some pretty insane behavior because of the denial caused by my addition. I actually believed the lies I told myself, how could I be honest with another person. That is changing. I run my version of reality past my sponsor, and some other friends, on a daily basis for a reality check now.

Looking back on my early sobriety, I can see now that my wife struggled with her own delusional thinking. I'm not saying that to pass judgement on her, or place blame. I am just starting to see that her version of the same events we went through was so different from mine, you would think one or both of us was making things up. This is not entirely true. We each find reality through our own perspective. That perspective is greatly influenced by previous experiences, hurts, anger, fear, etc. For example, she could not believe at the time that I really wanted our relationship to work and was working hard at it. I know that was not my reality at all. She worried about our finances like we were about to be thrown out in the street homeless. I knew our financial situation was a temporary setback. Her relationship with another man was justified because I 'wasn't there for her.' I was here waiting for her to stop being so angry with me so I could get closer to her. She said she was trying, from my perspective there was nothing I could ever do that would be good enough for her.

She has recently apologized for some of this stuff. Like I said, I'm not blaming her. This disease is powerful and it takes it's toll on everyone involved. I did more than my fair share of damage. But sometimes we alcoholics aren't the only ones who believe our own lies, are judgemental, and blame others for our own problems. When we are hurting as bad as you are now, these are all unfortunate parts of the same devistating disease. It's so hard to try to see things from the other persons (sometimes sick) perspective when we are hurting so bad ourselves.

Just something to think about that I wish both my wife and I were capable of seeing two years ago. It might have prevented our divorce.

I'm praying for your recovery and your husband's. This disease sucks.

Lou

Jeannie,

Thanks for keeping us posted on your situation. I learn alot. My recovering A is grandiose. I like the term marmare used about hers being a legend in his own mind. My husband brings up how we could have been rich if we hadn't sold our house. I took this in for 20 years until I finally said "you were the one that wanted to move not me". He continually tells me how to drive on snow and ice. I took this in for 20 years and said, "you know, the only times I have slid off the road is when you were the driver".

Pia Mellody says that we have to become an observer of our partners so we can truly see who they are. She says that with good boundaries we can evaluate what they say as true, partially true or not true. She says to just sit on your hands and breathe.

Your higher power knows the truth, Jeannie.

In support,

Nancy

hi jeannie!

i just came to the board to post about the very thing your post is about.  "their" reality.  my a and i have been arguing for the past two hours....his reality versus mine.  i don't have any solutions, but i just wanted to write cuz i can relate soo much to what you shared. 

my a's reality is so far off.  i agree with lou, that our reality gets pretty foggy too, in the throws of the disease, but i still don't think my reality is as far from the truth as my a's.  i keep telling my a he lives in a bubble.  he creates his own reality the way he wants it to be, so he ends up being the victim.   he does this all the time.  he makes things up about me that are so far from the truth, to try to justify his lifestyle. 

my a is very active, but active or not, he does this.  for instance, he says i have never contributed ANYTHING financially EVER since we've been together.  i worked full time until our son was born, and we split all the bills down the middle, yet, somehow, i've NEVER contributed financially, EVER.  that is just one of many examples of how he distorts reality.  and he, too, just tonight, was saying how he'd be "rich", but his reason is different than your a's.  he says he'd be rich if he'd never have met me.  even tho he is nearing financial ruin right now because of a dui and because of his drinking and gambling addictions.  it has nothing to do with me, in reality.  it has to do with losing his job temporarily after the dui, spending entire checks in the bars drinking and gambling, and playing in the bars instead of paying bills.  but somehow, that's MY fault! 

i'm sorry i don't have any personal experience on how to rise above this crap, but i can say i experience the same excrutiating frustration with what he thinks is 'reality'.  and what breaks my heart the most is that i think he really believes his reality about me.  i know how he describes me is NOT me, and it hurts so much that he thinks what he does about me IS me.  everyone wants validation.  i want him to validate me, he wants me to validate him.  neither of us is able to validate each other, cuz neither of us sees the other the way we see ourselves.  does that make sense?  lol!

i try to tell myself that whatever he accuses me of is just what he himself is guilty of.  that kind of helps, cuz it really is true.  whenever he is accusing me falsely, it usually can be turned around to something about himself.  so when he blames me for our financial troubles, the truth is...it is HIS lifestyle that is causing our financial troubles.  i don't spend a dime on waste.  the bills i am responsible for are never late, but yet, somehow, its my fault he doesn't have money!

anyway, i can so relate to your post, and it really has helped me to see i'm not the only one dealing with this false 'bubble' of reality.  i really liked the statement that was made in one of your replies, too, about the a being a legend in their own mind!  that says it all, as far as i'm concerned!

if you figure out how to rise above this, please share it here, cuz i am really frustrated with this too.  i wish i had some wise words of wisdom for you, but all i have is similar experiences.  good luck to you, jeannie!

lori

 

 

An Open Letter To My Family (From The Alcoholic)

I am an alcoholic. I need help.

Don't solve my problems for me. This only makes me lose respect for you.

Don't lecture, moralize, scold, blame, or argue, whether I'm loaded or sober. It may make you feel better, but it will make the situation worse.

Don't accept my promises. The nature of my illness prevents me from keeping them, even though I mean them at the time. Promises are only my way of postponing pain. Don't keep switching agreements; if an agreement is made, stick to it.

Don't lose your temper with me. It will destroy you and any possibility of helping me.

Don't allow your anxiety for me make you do what I should do for myself.

Don't cover for me or try to spare me the consequences of my using. It may reduce the crisis, but it will make my illness worse.

Above all, don't run away from reality as I do. Alcohol dependence, my illness, gets worse as my using continues. Start now to learn, to understand, to plan for recovery. Find Al-Anon, whose groups exist to help families of alcoholics.

I need help--from a doctor, a psychologist, a counselor, from a recovered alcoholic who found sobriety in AA, and from God. I cannot help myself.

Your Alcoholic.

 

Jeannie,

I got this from (of all people) my A.  He told me once that whenever I "bought into" one of his lies it made it easier for him to lie to me next time because it made him loose respect for ME.  Your A knows he has a disease.  Your A knows what is said in his recovery meetings.  If there were things that the folks at the treatment center wanted YOU to do, you would be invited to those meetings.  The last time my A went to treatment and gave me rationalizations for his behavior that he said he got from the treatment center, I said well I hope they're giving you the tools you need to work with my shortcomings.  And I left it at that.  We have no responsibility to follow the A's treatment plan.  Keep on working YOUR program my friend.  I learned (finally) that the things we learn in Al-anon go hand in hand with the things taught in AA.  The 2 programs work together to heal the whole family.  The 2 programs do not CONTRADICT one another!!

Much program love my strong friend,

 

Regina

It appears it's fairly common for those in recovery to use the program they are in to continue to decieve at times. re: things like.. "I can do this because recovery says I need to be selfiish at this time." Still using excuses for thier actions. As we've seen on here before, even to the point of things like infidelity. "I'm supposed to be selfish and I need this other woman/man to recover." I'm sorry, but anyone that believes that is just as sucked in to the disease as they have always been. IMO, it is just the behavior that they have learned being alcoholic. Didn't they lie to get away with what they did/do? Say unreasonable things to explain their actions away? Have an excuse for everything? I would hope in recovery that it is exactly what they do, recover. Unlearn those behaviors and take responsibility for their lives and actions. We in alanon see the word "selfish" to mean to take care of us for once, quit building our world around them and to free ourselves of the manipulation and lies etc. Alcoholic addiction is selfish in itself. An alcoholic can not possibly see the word "selfish" as we do. We have been a willing slave to the alcoholic and their needs, trying to make life appear normal. The alcoholic has been a slave to the disease, being selfish by letting daily responsibilities slide, some only concerned with figuring out where and when the next drink can take place. The disease itself is selfish. The thinking is worlds apart. If it walks like a duck, it's a duck, and BS is BS. Recovery does not advocate being so selfish to shirk their responsibilities as a parent or spouse. Wouldn't we all just love to stop working, stop doing housework and dinners, stop being responsible for children, stop paying bills and just focus on ourselves? It's just not reality though. It should not be an alcoholics reality either.

Hi Jeannie- I think we all hear what we want to hear and A's have very selective hearing. Only accept the blame to which you feel entitled--none of this is fact--just his feelings and perceptions. As time passes, I believe there is no real truth, only versions based on where you are standing at the time. I wish you serenity amidst this crap- Jeanne