I am struggling with this question - I really am. I am a logical person and my therapist says I am trying to rationalize something that is totally irrational. Why do addicts cheat? Why when they have good things in their life do they cheat on them? Why do they make the people who love them hurt? I am driving myself crazy with these questions.
Cyn
Karilynn said
Nov 22, 2005
Cyn,
Welcome. Here you will find great strength, wisdom, hope, and at time silliness (which is good for the heart).
You have to remember that you are not dealing with a "rational mind". It's the addiction doing the talking as well as their behavior. There is no point in trying to answer those questions. What you have to do is find a way to cope with it. If you choose to leave the relationship because of infedelity then that's your choice. If you choose to stay, then that is your choice as well. But trying to answer WHY they do what they do is very difficult. If I were you, I wouldn't spend the time on it. I'd rather focus my energies on my own recovery. I can't allow my life to stop because my husband is an alcoholic, active or not. Take the energy you spend on asking "Why does he do ..... (fill in the blank)" and refocusing the question "What can I do to help my recovery?"
Regardless of whether or not your A has decided to get sober or stay active, that's his choice. Your recovery has to be about you. You must not loose yourself in his disease. That's how we become sick in the first place. I know it hurts a great deal. But this too shall pass, even though you don't see it at the moment. Keep the focus on you. Be good to yourself. Keep coming back to us.
Live strong,
Karilynn
kitty said
Nov 22, 2005
Hi Cyn... I don't know if u remember talking to me in the ch rm the other day or not.
I was saying that they feel so unworthy & so unlovable that they go do something to justify their negative inner feelings. For example - their lives are SO "crappy" they can make themselves feel like they are right, when they do something even worse, i.e. cheatting or using again.
Their mind's ARE illogical... they think, "I don't love myself, so I will do something worse, to justify my not loving myself".
Then they resent those around them that love them so desperately - and lash out in hatred towards us -- they think, "I am such a piece of crap, how can that person even look at me, let alone, love me?" So then, they think you must be crap to... which justifies their feelings of unworthiness... which justifies the fact that they can continue to treat you so badly... and the cycle continues over & over, getting progressively worse... with both you feeling lower than the scummiest dirt in hell.
I know what I speak of - my step-father "got caught cheatting" and defiantly admitted, "I've been cheatting for over 15 years" they want to hurt others cuz they are hurting themselves. Misery loves company. "If you can forgive them you must deserve it as much as they do." This is very very sick thinking, it isn't love, love isn't who can take the most abuse... in fact love does not abuse at all.
Love is gentle, kind, compassionate, understanding... BUT part of that, as I was telling you yesterday is that we MUST love ourselves in this very same way. Part of that comes from simple boundaries, once u can determine ones that u can live with & enforce. Some are very simple in the beginning... like 'if you're going to be out all night getting drunk/stoned/cheatting you will not be welcome in the house that night... or many have found out what bars their "A" is at & call the police to report a drunk driver, they can go to jail to 'sleep it off'.
No one can tell you what is "right" for you. All we can do is offer ESH (exp, strength & hope), ways we have dealt with similar situations, we do not offer you advice, I am sure you're therapist has sd the same thing, "I am a guide" not your conscious. You have to go deep within yourself to determine what you are willing to tolerate. Determine your own value, self-worth & don't seek it from an abuser or a bully. A bully wants to put you down so they can momentarily feel better about themselves.
It took me a long time to get over, why I loved the A's. I relaized I was leaving myself open because I wasn't loving myself - I threw myself out the window & loved them more than life itself. I am nearly 40, this sick thinking was killing me spiritually. I was dying & there was little of "me" left, I kept giving it away to anyone that would take it... another person, that didn't love themselves.
I have learned a lot in this program. I am worth loving. I am worthy of my own love. I can validate myself.
I hope some of that makes sense into why they do what they do - I can tell you it is all about them - it has NOTHING to do with you. Everyone digs their own grave, makes their own bed. No one forces someone else to take drugs or cheat - we all have our own minds, freedome of choice & responsibility for our actions.
I do know my step-dad is angrier than ever, cuz when my mom told me about his cheatting - her boundary was that if he wanted to stay, he had to do 90 in 90 (90 mtgs in 90 days). Since we are not following him, of course we have no idea if he is actually going or not. She also created the boundary, that he had to call on the phone if he wanted to come into the house FOR ANYTHING - be it to walk a dog or get some food (she kicked him out to the pool house, which is an efficiency apt)... well he continually broke the "rule" or boundary - showing no respect. So her way of demanding respect was to change all of the locks on the house... now he is locked out. He HAS to call or IM... no way around it.
If he broke a window he would be arrestd immediately. I have no fear of him as I know aikido & my mother's lawyer sd "it is good that I am staying at the house" for many reasons... support, he can't bully me. It is their marriage, they have to handle it how they wish. The man IGNORED ME for 20 years - it hurt me my whole life, loving someone that wouldn't even look at you or say "hi" when u walked into a room... yet like an abused puppy so desperate for any little crum of affection, I would constantly still, go out of my way to be "nice & kind" which he fed off of, which was spiritually killing me.
I just began with a wonderful therapist... she says addicts/abusers are psychic or spiritual vampires... the suck your love, enrgy, fear, anger wtvr you give them, they take to feed off of.
They think, "if she's mad at me, I must be no good, so I'll go use" on & on.
It will sink in. Give yourself time, it isn't your fault but you can do things to self-protect yourself, one day at a time, sometimes one moment at a time... and you do have all of us who have been where you are, the first time we reached out, when we were SO confused & SO hurt. We are here 24/7, it does get better, be kind, gentle & patient with yourself, you deserve better, as we all do.
Knowldege is power. Keep coming back, keep posting, come to on-line mtgs if you can't get to any F2F. Vent in the ch rm anytime, this is what we are all here for, recovery, progress not perfection.
love, -K
kitty said
Nov 22, 2005
"There is no point in trying to answer those questions" Karilynn is right -- focus on yourself, what can u do for yourself today?
lin0606 said
Nov 22, 2005
Yes, you can think about their self esteem, or about how they are maybe just calming their inner demons, just the same way they do with drink or drugs, but, ultimately, it doesn't matter. All that matters to you is how you will deal with it.
I have had to deal with this, myself, and have decided - how he treats ME is what I care about. If he makes ME feel loved, if when he is home he treats me with respect and affection, then I am not spending any of my energy worrying about what he is doing when he is not home. If this changes, then I will rethink the situation.
For me, this works, for now.
abbyal said
Nov 22, 2005
Hello Cynn , there is no rhmye nor reason with alcoholism. You will never figure it out and I bet if you asked him he couldn't give u an answer that made any sence either. Recovering A's refer to it as cunning baffling and powerful .
It says in the big book of AA that an alcoholic will choose lower companions due to his lack of respect for himself. He dosent feel he deserves to be loved. this is a disease and it only gets worse never better. Infidelity is unexceptable non the less. take care of yourself . and stop trying to figure him out. What we need to do is understand why we stay , why we put up with unexceptable behavior again and again. When u figure that out u can change . I hope you are going to Al-Anon for yourself ,learn about the one person u can change . YOU good luck Louise
Chante123 said
Nov 22, 2005
What is the "cunning, baffling, powerful" thing about?
Chante123 said
Nov 22, 2005
Cyn,
Please see replies to Kim's posts today as she is going through similar.
Hugs!!!!!!!
kissers said
Nov 22, 2005
What do you mean by lower companions?
Dolphin123 said
Nov 23, 2005
Cyn,
I have no answers for you. Sometimes I really wonder if even the "A" knows why they do what they do.
I am struggling with this question - I really am. I am a logical person and my therapist says I am trying to rationalize something that is totally irrational. Why do addicts cheat? Why when they have good things in their life do they cheat on them? Why do they make the people who love them hurt? I am driving myself crazy with these questions.
Cyn
Hi Cyn... I don't know if u remember talking to me in the ch rm the other day or not.
I was saying that they feel so unworthy & so unlovable that they go do something to justify their negative inner feelings. For example - their lives are SO "crappy" they can make themselves feel like they are right, when they do something even worse, i.e. cheatting or using again.
Their mind's ARE illogical... they think, "I don't love myself, so I will do something worse, to justify my not loving myself".
Then they resent those around them that love them so desperately - and lash out in hatred towards us -- they think, "I am such a piece of crap, how can that person even look at me, let alone, love me?" So then, they think you must be crap to... which justifies their feelings of unworthiness... which justifies the fact that they can continue to treat you so badly... and the cycle continues over & over, getting progressively worse... with both you feeling lower than the scummiest dirt in hell.
I know what I speak of - my step-father "got caught cheatting" and defiantly admitted, "I've been cheatting for over 15 years" they want to hurt others cuz they are hurting themselves. Misery loves company. "If you can forgive them you must deserve it as much as they do." This is very very sick thinking, it isn't love, love isn't who can take the most abuse... in fact love does not abuse at all.
Love is gentle, kind, compassionate, understanding... BUT part of that, as I was telling you yesterday is that we MUST love ourselves in this very same way. Part of that comes from simple boundaries, once u can determine ones that u can live with & enforce. Some are very simple in the beginning... like 'if you're going to be out all night getting drunk/stoned/cheatting you will not be welcome in the house that night... or many have found out what bars their "A" is at & call the police to report a drunk driver, they can go to jail to 'sleep it off'.
No one can tell you what is "right" for you. All we can do is offer ESH (exp, strength & hope), ways we have dealt with similar situations, we do not offer you advice, I am sure you're therapist has sd the same thing, "I am a guide" not your conscious. You have to go deep within yourself to determine what you are willing to tolerate. Determine your own value, self-worth & don't seek it from an abuser or a bully. A bully wants to put you down so they can momentarily feel better about themselves.
It took me a long time to get over, why I loved the A's. I relaized I was leaving myself open because I wasn't loving myself - I threw myself out the window & loved them more than life itself. I am nearly 40, this sick thinking was killing me spiritually. I was dying & there was little of "me" left, I kept giving it away to anyone that would take it... another person, that didn't love themselves.
I have learned a lot in this program. I am worth loving. I am worthy of my own love. I can validate myself.
I hope some of that makes sense into why they do what they do - I can tell you it is all about them - it has NOTHING to do with you. Everyone digs their own grave, makes their own bed. No one forces someone else to take drugs or cheat - we all have our own minds, freedome of choice & responsibility for our actions.
I do know my step-dad is angrier than ever, cuz when my mom told me about his cheatting - her boundary was that if he wanted to stay, he had to do 90 in 90 (90 mtgs in 90 days). Since we are not following him, of course we have no idea if he is actually going or not. She also created the boundary, that he had to call on the phone if he wanted to come into the house FOR ANYTHING - be it to walk a dog or get some food (she kicked him out to the pool house, which is an efficiency apt)... well he continually broke the "rule" or boundary - showing no respect. So her way of demanding respect was to change all of the locks on the house... now he is locked out. He HAS to call or IM... no way around it.
If he broke a window he would be arrestd immediately. I have no fear of him as I know aikido & my mother's lawyer sd "it is good that I am staying at the house" for many reasons... support, he can't bully me. It is their marriage, they have to handle it how they wish. The man IGNORED ME for 20 years - it hurt me my whole life, loving someone that wouldn't even look at you or say "hi" when u walked into a room... yet like an abused puppy so desperate for any little crum of affection, I would constantly still, go out of my way to be "nice & kind" which he fed off of, which was spiritually killing me.
I just began with a wonderful therapist... she says addicts/abusers are psychic or spiritual vampires... the suck your love, enrgy, fear, anger wtvr you give them, they take to feed off of.
They think, "if she's mad at me, I must be no good, so I'll go use" on & on.
It will sink in. Give yourself time, it isn't your fault but you can do things to self-protect yourself, one day at a time, sometimes one moment at a time... and you do have all of us who have been where you are, the first time we reached out, when we were SO confused & SO hurt. We are here 24/7, it does get better, be kind, gentle & patient with yourself, you deserve better, as we all do.
Knowldege is power. Keep coming back, keep posting, come to on-line mtgs if you can't get to any F2F. Vent in the ch rm anytime, this is what we are all here for, recovery, progress not perfection.
love, -K
Hello Cynn , there is no rhmye nor reason with alcoholism. You will never figure it out and I bet if you asked him he couldn't give u an answer that made any sence either. Recovering A's refer to it as cunning baffling and powerful .
It says in the big book of AA that an alcoholic will choose lower companions due to his lack of respect for himself. He dosent feel he deserves to be loved. this is a disease and it only gets worse never better. Infidelity is unexceptable non the less. take care of yourself . and stop trying to figure him out. What we need to do is understand why we stay , why we put up with unexceptable behavior again and again. When u figure that out u can change . I hope you are going to Al-Anon for yourself ,learn about the one person u can change . YOU good luck Louise
What is the "cunning, baffling, powerful" thing about?
Cyn,
Please see replies to Kim's posts today as she is going through similar.
Hugs!!!!!!!
Cyn,
I have no answers for you. Sometimes I really wonder if even the "A" knows why they do what they do.
Much Love,