Thank you for your responses and support with my previous post. I am checking on meetings today. I do have one more question. After my husband disappeared for two days drinking, he wanted to come home. He told me he was not happy here and doesn't know what he wants. He said our marriage was stale and he wants us to change some things, get out more, etc. which, ironically, is something I have tried to get him to do. He said he feels trapped, for instance, if he wanted to have a beer after work with a friend, he didn't want to have to answer to me about being late. Funny thing is, I've never done that, but he has when I have been just a few minutes late. Now that he is back home, he seems content, like before, but when I suggest getting out and doing things, he doesn't want to. When I suggest making changes, he seems content as things are, which according to him was "stale" a few days ago. Do alcoholics turn the tables on you, so to speak, to get back "into the fold"? Do they turn the blame onto the spouse as a form of manipulation? He is the first alcoholic I have ever dealt with, and we have only been married two years. I just wondered if I was reading this right. Thank you for your insight.
megan said
Oct 6, 2005
Hi Meow and welcome
I am married for 14 years to an alcoholic.
I can tell you that my husband blamed everything on me. It was always my fault. Through meetings and hearing other peoples stories I see the alcoholic lays blame everywhere except on themselves.
At my first face to face meeting an older lady with alot of time in the program told me that living with and active alcoholic was living with insanity.
This has proven to be the case over and over again. When I finally stopped trying to figure out my husbands non-sensical behaviour my mind was freed up to work on my own recovery.
I read a new term in this room last week called "crazy-making". Maybe someone else can excplain this better but my understanding is that the alcoholic will keep shifting opinion and positions on things and makes us crazy.
this happened for years before I found alanon last July.
Find your local face to face meeting and go. Let us know how it goes.
Keep coming back and learning, things will get better
Karilynn said
Oct 6, 2005
Mewomusic,
Here is the original one. I just retyped it! Sorry for the confusion!
Good morning and welcome!
A little bit of background: I too, am newly married to an A, but we've known each other for 22 years. While I suspected he had a drinking problem, it came to the front last year. He is now in a halfway house, and the next step is assisted living. He is doing much better and so are we. So there is always hope.
Alcohlics do lie. They lie to get their fix, because that is their disease. They can turn on a dime, especially when they are active. It comes with the territory.
My A and I were just talking about this topic yesterday. We have this habit of not wanting to hurt each other's feelings so much that we will lie to spare each other's feelings. But we can't stand the guilt of lying to each other, so we end up telloing each other the truth anyway! Why didn't we just do that in the first place? It's not as if the lies we told each other were devastating. I mean here a man who will tell me that he's taken money so he can go and drink! He told me that night! (He's a solitary drinker, not a bar drinker.) But he can't tell me that he's uncomfortable coming home for the weekend because of the memories. I was elated that he could finely tell the difference between feeling uncomfortable and reaching for a drink, instead he stays some place safe where he can attend meetings. What a huge step for him!
I did the same thing to him a couple of years ago when we were living in different cities. What's the big deal? Neither of us were hurt by the truth? Frankly we're relieved when we tell each other the truth. So we've agreed to tell each other truth even when we think that it might hurt each other. He's repsonsible for his feelings and how he handles them, and I'm responsible for mine.
One of the things that helped me was reading the Blue Book. You can read it online or pick it up anywhere. The chapter on wives is especially helpful.
The trick to all of this is making sure that you stay healthy even when he isn't. You have to put the focus on you. Remember the 3 C's: You didn't Cause it. You can't Control it. You can't Change it. It's up to them. Recite the Serenty prayer.
I am 150% convinced that it is possible to live with an A, active or recovering if you so choose. But in order to do that you must keep the focus on you. You're recovery. Here and at f2f meetings you will learn how. You will find the strength in you. You will be given the tools. Look at the posts here. There is great strength, hope and wisdom here.
I have the most loving man on the face of the earth. I can't imagine my life without him. Has the last year been tough? I can't begin to tell you. How I wish I had found this site last year. But you know what? I wouldn't trade it for a million bucks. Seriously I would go back and do things the same way. Because that's how I learned and got stronger. That's how he's finally getting better and we are so much better. I have abolutely no regrets.
You must be good to yourself. Do not loose yourself in his disease. You have no idea how important it is to keep doing the things that you love doing. If you have a hobby, don't give it up. Keep the support around you. If you have a standing dinner date with friends, by all means go. This is about your recovery and emotional well-being. You'll be okay.
Live strong,
karilynn
-- Edited by Karilynn at 08:27, 2005-10-06
Diva said
Oct 6, 2005
Ah, Meowzmusic, your post could have been written be me! When my husband went on a three-day binge, I called it a "gentleman's vacation." May as well see the humor in it. Once home he was contrite and sorry and begged my forgiveness. Like you, I had no previous experience with alcoholism. Believe me, it is an education no university offers!!! Yep, they will say what they think you want to hear, , say what they want to hear, turn the tables on you, change their minds. It's all a part of it. Al Anon teaches us how to deal with our day-to-day feelings and emotions with serenity, understanding, and love. I am trying hard, and waiting for all of that to happen to me. LOL! Do find a meeting and go.
Best wishes, Diva
jj said
Oct 6, 2005
Hi Mewomusic,
Hugs and welcome to MIP. I have not read your other post yet but will. When I was reading your post i was thinking about when I first came into MIP and soing the very thing you are asking questions. I wanted answers and mostly I ended up taking a good hard look at myself, my actions and eventually I got the answers I was looking for.
When my A (my husband) says things like I want to go out more... he has no intention of going out with me but instead he is talking about his drinking buddies. It is the disease talking not him.
"He said he feels trapped, for instance, if he wanted to have a beer after work with a friend, he didn't want to have to answer to me about being late. Funny thing is, I've never done that, but he has when I have been just a few minutes late."
Alcoholics often feel alot of shame and guilt and drink to self medicate, I am not sure what your husband thinks but as I have had the oppertunity to meet and become friends with many recovering A's they all say the same thing. Your husband is most likely saying his very own thoughts and being hard on himself. The blame game is to only make them feel better and yes manipulations plays a large part of this disease but I can't and would never say that they all do it.
My husband and I faught constantly about how much he drank and how much time he spent away from home and his family, he in trun would say things like "all you do is bitch", "why would I want to come home to a crazy woman", "if I want to go out I will", "what is your problem". When I first came here to MIP I was devistated and confused and stubborn!!! I thought that it was him that had the problem and him that caused the craziness and him that made me the way I was. You see I learned that I played a huge part in all of it and had to recognise my part in it and come to terms with the fact that it was the disease talking. In all actuallity I did bitch and complain and rage filled me when he staggered in the doors and of course I sounded crazy to him. Why would anyone want to come home to that.... I have learned to "let go and let god". I no longer am the person I was and ammazingly we are at a point where we live in a calmer environment and can coexist with on another. Sure I have days but gernerally there are more good then bad.
Reading up on the disease and understanding it has helpped emmensly!!
I would have never been able to say any of this or come this far with out the people on this board or going to meetings.
Keep comming back
Love in recovery JJ
agatha said
Oct 6, 2005
Hi Mewowusic,
They do it all the time. The best way to keep you out of his business is to keep you off balance and thinking it's all in your head or it's you who is wrong. You ask too much, you're not giving enough, the other wives don't act this way, if there were more sex he would be inspired to do more around the house, ect, ect, ect.... bluh, bluh, bluh.....
Agatha
Jeannie said
Oct 6, 2005
Hi Mewomusic,
They are such masters at turning the table it seems like living on an old record player.
When dealing with an active A, everything is someone elses fault, and that more often than not becomes the spouse.
With my husband if I don't keep the house clean enough, he complains, if I clean too much he calls me Felix or says I am cumpulsive. If I leave him alone I am ignoring him and if I am around I am smothering him. He can flirt with anyone, but if a man says hello to me, he must be hitting on me. Some weeks I don't work enough, other times I do too much. One day he is calling me Peg Bundy, asking if I am sitting on the couch all day eating bonbons, (with 6 children and a job) another day he accuses me of running around so much that no human could keep up with me. If I gain weight I am getting fat and if I lose it I am too skinny. If I do not initiate sex, or am too tired, I am not keeping life interesting or spicey enough. But when I do ititiate it, I am making him feel inadequate or like a machine, I'm being too demanding.
No matter what I do when I am wrong, and nothing is ever good enough to him. I am always the reason for him to drink. There is one set of rules for him and one set for me. When he comes home from work (if he happens to have a job) , he either goes and drinks or goes to bed. When I come home there is 6 hours more work to be done. I have told him on may occasions that I would like to know what he actually does around here, since according to him it is everyhting. he doesn't work, doesn't clean, doesn't take care of the kids and doesn't do yard work.
I also said if I believed in reincarnation as was going to come back as anything it would be him.
Lovve jeannie
canadianguy said
Oct 6, 2005
Great questions Meows, but I will challenge you, in the way that my sponsor often has to challenge me.... Is your concern, about your hubby's manipulative behavior, a "why or a what" concern.... Most of us tend to focus way too much time and attention on the "why" questions, when, in fact, even if we knew the answer (which is highly unlikely), wouldn't change a darned thing...
The "what" is that he is an alcoholic, and will deflect, shift blame, turn things around, avoid his issues, shirk responsibility, etc., etc., etc, for as long as he possibly can, before he chooses another path.
Now is the time for you to focus on you, and your recovery.... Read about the disease, learn some of the things you will be having to deal with.... figure out how healthy you are, and it will all help you in the long run...
Take care
Tom
Ratchie said
Oct 7, 2005
megan wrote: I read a new term in this room last week called "crazy-making". Maybe someone else can excplain this better but my understanding is that the alcoholic will keep shifting opinion and positions on things and makes us crazy.
Megan:
The first time I read about "crazy-making" I knew immediately what it meant. I grew up in a house with a mentally ill mother. You never knew which person you would be dealing with. The stable mom, or the "crazy" mom. Or in my present situation, my nice, good-guy husband, or the "crazy" one.
It is when there is one person in the household who has a sickness. Some days they are ok, others are really bad. Everyone else in the home has to adjust their behavior around the one who is sick. When they are well, we are able to let our guard down (very little), but when the sickness rears its ugly head, run for cover! So consequently we are always on a state of alert. Because we never know... what may please them one day, may anger them the next.
For instance, a normal non-issue such as what shoes you buy your kids, or what brand of laundry soap you brought home can turn into a huge thing! And when that happens we begin to question our own judgement. Do we really not know how to buy shoes or soap? Are we really that insufficient?
But the reality is that these things shouldn't even matter in the long run! There is someone in the home who is "crazy-making". Their illness is coming out and it's making everyone else around them feel crazy! I know you all can relate!
So... 18 years with mentally ill mom... 17 years with A... hmmmm... Can we see a pattern here? Thanks for being there, all of you. You help me feel a little less crazy myself!
Thank you for your responses and support with my previous post. I am checking on meetings today. I do have one more question. After my husband disappeared for two days drinking, he wanted to come home. He told me he was not happy here and doesn't know what he wants. He said our marriage was stale and he wants us to change some things, get out more, etc. which, ironically, is something I have tried to get him to do. He said he feels trapped, for instance, if he wanted to have a beer after work with a friend, he didn't want to have to answer to me about being late. Funny thing is, I've never done that, but he has when I have been just a few minutes late. Now that he is back home, he seems content, like before, but when I suggest getting out and doing things, he doesn't want to. When I suggest making changes, he seems content as things are, which according to him was "stale" a few days ago. Do alcoholics turn the tables on you, so to speak, to get back "into the fold"? Do they turn the blame onto the spouse as a form of manipulation? He is the first alcoholic I have ever dealt with, and we have only been married two years. I just wondered if I was reading this right. Thank you for your insight.
Hi Meow and welcome
I am married for 14 years to an alcoholic.
I can tell you that my husband blamed everything on me. It was always my fault. Through meetings and hearing other peoples stories I see the alcoholic lays blame everywhere except on themselves.
At my first face to face meeting an older lady with alot of time in the program told me that living with and active alcoholic was living with insanity.
This has proven to be the case over and over again. When I finally stopped trying to figure out my husbands non-sensical behaviour my mind was freed up to work on my own recovery.
I read a new term in this room last week called "crazy-making". Maybe someone else can excplain this better but my understanding is that the alcoholic will keep shifting opinion and positions on things and makes us crazy.
this happened for years before I found alanon last July.
Find your local face to face meeting and go. Let us know how it goes.
Keep coming back and learning, things will get better
-- Edited by Karilynn at 08:27, 2005-10-06
Hi Mewomusic,
Hugs and welcome to MIP. I have not read your other post yet but will. When I was reading your post i was thinking about when I first came into MIP and soing the very thing you are asking questions. I wanted answers and mostly I ended up taking a good hard look at myself, my actions and eventually I got the answers I was looking for.
When my A (my husband) says things like I want to go out more... he has no intention of going out with me but instead he is talking about his drinking buddies. It is the disease talking not him.
"He said he feels trapped, for instance, if he wanted to have a beer after work with a friend, he didn't want to have to answer to me about being late. Funny thing is, I've never done that, but he has when I have been just a few minutes late."
Alcoholics often feel alot of shame and guilt and drink to self medicate, I am not sure what your husband thinks but as I have had the oppertunity to meet and become friends with many recovering A's they all say the same thing. Your husband is most likely saying his very own thoughts and being hard on himself. The blame game is to only make them feel better and yes manipulations plays a large part of this disease but I can't and would never say that they all do it.
My husband and I faught constantly about how much he drank and how much time he spent away from home and his family, he in trun would say things like "all you do is bitch", "why would I want to come home to a crazy woman", "if I want to go out I will", "what is your problem". When I first came here to MIP I was devistated and confused and stubborn!!! I thought that it was him that had the problem and him that caused the craziness and him that made me the way I was. You see I learned that I played a huge part in all of it and had to recognise my part in it and come to terms with the fact that it was the disease talking. In all actuallity I did bitch and complain and rage filled me when he staggered in the doors and of course I sounded crazy to him. Why would anyone want to come home to that.... I have learned to "let go and let god". I no longer am the person I was and ammazingly we are at a point where we live in a calmer environment and can coexist with on another. Sure I have days but gernerally there are more good then bad.
Reading up on the disease and understanding it has helpped emmensly!!
I would have never been able to say any of this or come this far with out the people on this board or going to meetings.
Keep comming back
Love in recovery
JJ
Hi Mewowusic,
They do it all the time. The best way to keep you out of his business is to keep you off balance and thinking it's all in your head or it's you who is wrong. You ask too much, you're not giving enough, the other wives don't act this way, if there were more sex he would be inspired to do more around the house, ect, ect, ect.... bluh, bluh, bluh.....
Agatha
Hi Mewomusic,
They are such masters at turning the table it seems like living on an old record player.
When dealing with an active A, everything is someone elses fault, and that more often than not becomes the spouse.
With my husband if I don't keep the house clean enough, he complains, if I clean too much he calls me Felix or says I am cumpulsive. If I leave him alone I am ignoring him and if I am around I am smothering him. He can flirt with anyone, but if a man says hello to me, he must be hitting on me. Some weeks I don't work enough, other times I do too much. One day he is calling me Peg Bundy, asking if I am sitting on the couch all day eating bonbons, (with 6 children and a job) another day he accuses me of running around so much that no human could keep up with me. If I gain weight I am getting fat and if I lose it I am too skinny. If I do not initiate sex, or am too tired, I am not keeping life interesting or spicey enough. But when I do ititiate it, I am making him feel inadequate or like a machine, I'm being too demanding.
No matter what I do when I am wrong, and nothing is ever good enough to him. I am always the reason for him to drink. There is one set of rules for him and one set for me. When he comes home from work (if he happens to have a job) , he either goes and drinks or goes to bed. When I come home there is 6 hours more work to be done. I have told him on may occasions that I would like to know what he actually does around here, since according to him it is everyhting. he doesn't work, doesn't clean, doesn't take care of the kids and doesn't do yard work.
I also said if I believed in reincarnation as was going to come back as anything it would be him.
Lovve jeannie
Great questions Meows, but I will challenge you, in the way that my sponsor often has to challenge me.... Is your concern, about your hubby's manipulative behavior, a "why or a what" concern.... Most of us tend to focus way too much time and attention on the "why" questions, when, in fact, even if we knew the answer (which is highly unlikely), wouldn't change a darned thing...
The "what" is that he is an alcoholic, and will deflect, shift blame, turn things around, avoid his issues, shirk responsibility, etc., etc., etc, for as long as he possibly can, before he chooses another path.
Now is the time for you to focus on you, and your recovery.... Read about the disease, learn some of the things you will be having to deal with.... figure out how healthy you are, and it will all help you in the long run...
Take care
Tom