I don't post here usually, mostly because I'm new to all of this and am not sure where my head is at most of the time. Plus I guess I am keeping to myself most days now, although I'm not so sure it's good for my mind. Anyway, I (as usual) am confused about my expectations and thoughts. My husband and I have been apart for almost a month now, he is/was an active A when we parted. I have spoken to him a few times and have seen him twice. Usually when we speak on the phone we get into an argument, I have so much anger inside towards him that no matter what he does it makes me angry. But at the same time I miss him so much. Anyway...I decided to sit down and write a heartfelt letter to him just to let him know what I am feeling, what areas I feel I need to better myself in, and how everything that happened was not all of my fault nor all of his. I told him how it made me feel when he would be drunk and passed out, how there were times I needed him badly and he wasn't there for me. I did not at all tell him I wanted him back but I did tell him that I love him and always have. I explained to him that I was angry at him for what he allowed himself to become and for not being strong enough to do what he knew was right (he was clean for 6 years then started drinking again). I told him that I felt I had to pay the price for his anger and inner turmoil, things that he caused by himself, and events that had happened years ago. He told me a week or so ago that I had to prove to him I was strong enough to make it on my own, an excuse in my opinion but that’s only my opinion. I wrote and told him:
"You say that you need me to prove that I can make it on my own, that you can’t come home until then. That you want to only come home because I love you and not because I want you to pay bills. You say you don’t understand why I am so miserable, since it was my choice for us to be this way. You say it was my control, my name was on the lease, I had the upper hand. Where does your responsibility come in? When do you admit that the other fifty percent of the problem was you. When will you honestly admit if to no one but yourself that you have a problem that contributed a lot to our failed relationship. When do you own it. When do you end it.
For a long time now, I have wanted to know that I was important to you. I needed to see it, I needed to feel it inside, and I haven’t . Things that probably would have seemed so small to you but would have meant the world to me. I would fight for it, I would scream for it and I would even cry for it. I still do. Do I handle it all the right way, probably not, but it’s the only way I can handle it. I am working on it. But for all of the troubles we have been through, I have handled them with a clear head and faced them with a clear head. Can you say the same?"
I let him know that I pray everyday for my own strength to get through all of this and that I pray for him too. I don't know if he is still drinking as much as he was when he was here. In the few times we have spoken on the phone, once he sounded like he had a few, another time he sounded fine. Next time I speak with him he may be trashed, who knows but better him than me.
I gave him this letter yesterday morning and he took it with him. He stopped by for a minute to pick something up. Somehow I would have expected a response from him by now. But I have not heard anything. I wonder if my feelings really aren't that important to him at all. Maybe I hit nerves, maybe he laughed at it, maybe I'll never know.
Somehow I don't even really know why I am writing all of this here on the board, just need some thoughts from someone who just at one time or another needed to get their feelings out too. I don't think doing what I did was stupid, it may have been to him but it was what I needed to do for me. It felt good to get my feelings out without yelling and I believe I even made progress in coming to terms with some of my own emotions. I guess it just still hurts that he still doesn't care.
I'm sorry to make this so long but I just needed to get this all out...it hurts.
UncleLou said
Oct 1, 2005
Renee,
Your letter could have been written by my ex. It helps me see things a little more clearly when written by someone I have no attatchment with.
Something else struck me. You never indicate in your post whether you really want things to work out with him, if you still love him enough to want him back. Do you? This was always MY problem with the way I percieved my wife treated me. She never clearly said 'I love you, and I want nothing more than things to work out between us, I am willing to work hard for that because you are worth it to me.' I tried to make it clear to her that I felt that way; I wanted us together, that I loved her unconditionally. I guess lack of trust made it hard for her to comprehend. I always had major doubts about our future since I started recovery. I knew I had hurt her so deeply over the years. I tried to acknowledge the pain I caused her, take responsibility, and apologize for my actions. It seemed that she wouldn't accept it. I told her 'I can't give you something if you refuse to accept it.' It made me keep my distance to keep from being hurt.
Lou
-- Edited by UncleLou at 09:14, 2005-10-01
Maria123 said
Oct 1, 2005
((((Hadit))))),
I am glad you posted again. Isolation is not a good thing. We all do it but it doesn't help. It really helps to talk things out with someone else (someone you can trust like an Al Anoner) who will listen and not judge. We all understand each other. It's like we speak a foreign language at times because we understands perhaps as only few others can.
The excerpt from your letter I thought was very thoughtful. It's good for you to own your feelings. It's also good to communicate how you feel. What's the worst that can happen? Right. Anyway, keep coming. Come to our chat room www.12stepforums.net. We have open chat and meetings which are so helpful.
Maria123
rosie light shines said
Oct 1, 2005
hi i am rosie....and i am a writer by nature....and writing letters is a release for me too.......
when i got into recovery the first thing i did was grab onto a good sponser....
bought all the literature i could........90 meets in 90 days..........sharing on group.....i mean i give this progam hell and it is paying me back in spades now
my "A" and i separated 5yrs. ago a few months ago.......and it took me a while to get into recovery...i mean i would suffer 3 years after the split before i got into recovery....
with my horrible past, and he and i splitting up after 12 years together...it was like this split was the last straw.......
now i take care of me......i **married* the program for the first year and a half and i am glad i did.....i didn't want any relationships till my HP guides me into one........what i am trying to say , here, is he has his life journey.......i have mine....i don't even know where he is now...he is in the navy, and i am here.....but no matter....i can **only fix me* i cannot help anyone else......i can only work on me// clean up **my side of the street* thats the only thing i can do.......as i take care of me....i love me more.....i accept me more.....and being by myself beats the hell out of being around someone who is drunk.....even though he never abused me he was an "A" and his drinking and unwillingness to get into recovery was not acceptable to me...........please take what works, and leave the rest/ rosie
kismetstrand said
Oct 1, 2005
Hi (((((hadit))))) glad to see you here. Reading your post sure took me back to "the old days" and to my finding alanon. Much of what you said I could have written myself. Feeling that I was the one paying the price for his anger/issues, knowing I had my own things to work on, angry that he always pointed the finger at me for our problems, angry that he drank and didn't try to quit (he too had 7 years sobriety prior to our meeting), wanting him to listen to ME about my feelings. Lots and lots of anger, hurt, pain, despair (I could go on and on...)
Here are some of the things I have learned since starting Alanon. First and foremost, it is a disease. Love has nothing to do with ability to quit - unless it be love of self (that is needed). All his yelling at me about "divorce my ass then!" or "I want a divorce, you're a _________ (fill in the blank with the cruelest word you can think of)" - was self-sabotage on his part, was his fear of my actually NOT loving him and leaving him coming out, was his way of trying to make me end it (his greatest fear) so that the "blame" would be on me for ending it instead of on him. (UncleLou spoke of part of that in his reply, the doubts, the keeping a distance to avoid being hurt.) I too, began putting up a wall, keeping a distance, to try and avoid further hurt. So either I was maintaining that wall or I was venting out all my feelings and pain trying to make him hear me. Neither one of those things helped. They actually made it worse for both of us.
"He told me a week or so ago that I had to prove to him I was strong enough to make it on my own, ..." I understand this statement your husband made to you. Or, I should say, I believe I understand what he means by this (I could be wrong). When an alcoholic seeks recovery, it is just as important for the spouse to also seek recovery for themself. We too have been affected by this disease. We too are "sick", oftentimes "sicker" than the alcoholic. We may think we are thinking "clearly" because we are not the one who drinks, but our thinking has been affected by the disease, it has become distorted by our pain and hurt and anger. The resentments we hold fester away inside, poisoning us. Have you ever looked at yourself and said "wow, how did I become this person? I used to laugh and smile and enjoy life...now I am miserable, unhappy, yelling, crying..." That was me. I had changed. I needed recovery too. We have been weakened by this disease, we have been changed into people who are fearful of what the future may hold, fearful of being close to someone, fearful of being hurt. We need recovery. We need a changed attitude. An alcoholic seeking recovery, seeking a new way of life, cannot "come home" to the same old attitudes. I personally believe that is one of the biggest factors in alcoholic marriages falling apart. BOTH parties to the relationship need recovery.
Finding humility helped me to see a lot clearer. It also helped me find my compassion again. And funnily enough, it also helped me find my strength again. Strength to face my fears. Strength to love unconditionally. Strength to live through each day as I learned and learned in Alanon and began putting the Alanon tools to use in my life. Strength to pick myself back up after I slipped and to come into these rooms and say "I slipped - help" and begin again. Strength to not isolate, to call an alanon friend or to speak up in chat or to post so I could get feedback. Strength to know that my A does love me, to see past the alcoholic words to what lies beneath them inside the frightened man fighting a horrible, deadly, cunning disease.
It is a simple program, but it is not easy. It is a lot of hard work. It is working each and every day to apply the principles of the program to our life. The more we focus on what we can change - ourself - the better it gets. I can now stand up for myself, when my husband starts taking my inventory I can say to him (I call it "program talking") "you are taking my inventory, you wouldn't like me taking yours, would you?" and he knows exactly what I mean from his previous 7 years in AA. And he stops. I use program talking a lot in our conversations, I apply what I've learned from the steps and traditions in our discussions about life, family, work, decision making, etc. I take baby steps in discussing feelings, in working on getting that intimacy/closeness back with him that we used to have in the beginning of our relationship before this ugly disease reared its head and engulfed me. And so far, it sure is working for us. "Changed attitudes can aid recovery" - thats one of my favorite lines from Alanon.
I'm glad you shared with us. Please keep doing so. Please keep coming back. The more we share, the better it gets. It opens the door for discussion, to hear others share, to hear how others have worked the program. We take what we like (can use in our situation) and we leave the rest (what we can't use). No one way is the "right" way - but we get to hear so many different ways, ways we might never have thought of on our own. That is the beauty of this program. And it works if you work it!!!
((((((((((hugs)))))))))) to you!! Glad you're here!
Luv, Kis
sanddie said
Oct 1, 2005
UncleLou:
I guess it all goes to show that we respond to people differently. I had told my ex that I loved him so much and felt I'd never have him outta my heart if we ever split up. We used to actually pray together in the midst of things-- He would even say, let's stop and pray, take my hand and he'd pray... I was growing so angry though that I didn't know how to turn it around and then I did the one day at a time, but each time he repeated his drinking behavior, blowing me off for friends or disrespecting my feelings, grew more upset. Eventually, I chose to end the relationship for ONLY ONE REASON. To let him live his life as he chose, as an alcoholic-- thinking that he could find someone and live his life as he choses with someone who might drink as he does. Interestingly enough, my choice was based on his family history. His mom was married to an alcoholic when he was 12-years old and in turn, she was also an alcoholic-- his entire family are alcoholics and it was what they knew to be right in their eyes. I was actually the outsider. We'd go to a party on occasion and I felt like I was in the wrong place or not welcome because I wasn't a drinker.
It was so obvious that his mothers and sisters abandonment or neglect to contact him while we were together was an attempt to isolate him because of his choice to be with me. He drank because he was already in pain and then he was losing his family because of choosing a life with me and I couldn't live with that my entire life. I would get angry at times and he was caught in the middle so it was time for me to end it for the last time.
I haven't seen him since the breakup, nor do I ever want to run into him, as I am not certain my reaction. So ya see, it has nothing to do with being angry with him any longer, but more being hurt and trying to overcome a broken heart. Maybe your wife, although appears to be angry, is really struggling with a broken heart. Typically anger is a result of fear and so many other emotions. It's a coping mechanism. :)
Here it is 10 months later and I still feel that same. However, that wasn't important to him. So, ya see--- I guess it's all in how someone "thinks" or perhaps expects the response of the other to be. If only he would have thought as you-- that was all he needed to hear to fill something inside of him, but that wasn't the case unfortunately and we are no longer be together, nor ever again. I'm finally accepting this after only 10 months and hoping it continues to get easier.
Take Care!
-- Edited by sanddie at 19:37, 2005-10-01
canadianguy said
Oct 2, 2005
Hi there.... as the author of about a dozen of those heartfelt letters to my (then active) wife at the time, I am hopeful that you wrote the letter for YOUR benefit.... If you wrote it to help them, you are likely tieing it in with an 'expectation' of a particular reaction or response from him, and you will most likely be disappointed....
Writing those letters, for our own benefit, for our own needs - can be cleansing. Writing those letters, with the hope that our A's will "finally get it", is typically fruitless and disappointing...
Take care
Tom
Jeannie said
Oct 2, 2005
Hi,
I too have written many of those letters.
Sometimes my husband acknowledged them, often he didn't bother. I many times got so angry at him not anwering them, or even reading them at times. I felt, that if he could not take the time to read it, how much could he care. When he did comment on them, things where never in the context that they where written. He might have read what I wrote, but interpreted it his own way.
I have kept a copy of almost every letter I have ever written him. The part that amazes and saddens me when I reread them, is that letters that I wrote ten years ago, could have been written ten minutes ago. Time has passed, but in this horrible world of alcoholism, time has stood still for us.
I don't post here usually, mostly because I'm new to all of this and am not sure where my head is at most of the time. Plus I guess I am keeping to myself most days now, although I'm not so sure it's good for my mind. Anyway, I (as usual) am confused about my expectations and thoughts. My husband and I have been apart for almost a month now, he is/was an active A when we parted. I have spoken to him a few times and have seen him twice. Usually when we speak on the phone we get into an argument, I have so much anger inside towards him that no matter what he does it makes me angry. But at the same time I miss him so much. Anyway...I decided to sit down and write a heartfelt letter to him just to let him know what I am feeling, what areas I feel I need to better myself in, and how everything that happened was not all of my fault nor all of his. I told him how it made me feel when he would be drunk and passed out, how there were times I needed him badly and he wasn't there for me. I did not at all tell him I wanted him back but I did tell him that I love him and always have. I explained to him that I was angry at him for what he allowed himself to become and for not being strong enough to do what he knew was right (he was clean for 6 years then started drinking again). I told him that I felt I had to pay the price for his anger and inner turmoil, things that he caused by himself, and events that had happened years ago. He told me a week or so ago that I had to prove to him I was strong enough to make it on my own, an excuse in my opinion but that’s only my opinion. I wrote and told him:
"You say that you need me to prove that I can make it on my own, that you can’t come home until then. That you want to only come home because I love you and not because I want you to pay bills. You say you don’t understand why I am so miserable, since it was my choice for us to be this way. You say it was my control, my name was on the lease, I had the upper hand. Where does your responsibility come in? When do you admit that the other fifty percent of the problem was you. When will you honestly admit if to no one but yourself that you have a problem that contributed a lot to our failed relationship. When do you own it. When do you end it.
For a long time now, I have wanted to know that I was important to you. I needed to see it, I needed to feel it inside, and I haven’t . Things that probably would have seemed so small to you but would have meant the world to me. I would fight for it, I would scream for it and I would even cry for it. I still do. Do I handle it all the right way, probably not, but it’s the only way I can handle it. I am working on it. But for all of the troubles we have been through, I have handled them with a clear head and faced them with a clear head. Can you say the same?"
I let him know that I pray everyday for my own strength to get through all of this and that I pray for him too. I don't know if he is still drinking as much as he was when he was here. In the few times we have spoken on the phone, once he sounded like he had a few, another time he sounded fine. Next time I speak with him he may be trashed, who knows but better him than me.
I gave him this letter yesterday morning and he took it with him. He stopped by for a minute to pick something up. Somehow I would have expected a response from him by now. But I have not heard anything. I wonder if my feelings really aren't that important to him at all. Maybe I hit nerves, maybe he laughed at it, maybe I'll never know.
Somehow I don't even really know why I am writing all of this here on the board, just need some thoughts from someone who just at one time or another needed to get their feelings out too. I don't think doing what I did was stupid, it may have been to him but it was what I needed to do for me. It felt good to get my feelings out without yelling and I believe I even made progress in coming to terms with some of my own emotions. I guess it just still hurts that he still doesn't care.
I'm sorry to make this so long but I just needed to get this all out...it hurts.
Renee,
Your letter could have been written by my ex. It helps me see things a little more clearly when written by someone I have no attatchment with.
Something else struck me. You never indicate in your post whether you really want things to work out with him, if you still love him enough to want him back. Do you? This was always MY problem with the way I percieved my wife treated me. She never clearly said 'I love you, and I want nothing more than things to work out between us, I am willing to work hard for that because you are worth it to me.' I tried to make it clear to her that I felt that way; I wanted us together, that I loved her unconditionally. I guess lack of trust made it hard for her to comprehend. I always had major doubts about our future since I started recovery. I knew I had hurt her so deeply over the years. I tried to acknowledge the pain I caused her, take responsibility, and apologize for my actions. It seemed that she wouldn't accept it. I told her 'I can't give you something if you refuse to accept it.' It made me keep my distance to keep from being hurt.
Lou
-- Edited by UncleLou at 09:14, 2005-10-01
((((Hadit))))),
I am glad you posted again. Isolation is not a good thing. We all do it but it doesn't help. It really helps to talk things out with someone else (someone you can trust like an Al Anoner) who will listen and not judge. We all understand each other. It's like we speak a foreign language at times because we understands perhaps as only few others can.
The excerpt from your letter I thought was very thoughtful. It's good for you to own your feelings. It's also good to communicate how you feel. What's the worst that can happen? Right. Anyway, keep coming. Come to our chat room www.12stepforums.net. We have open chat and meetings which are so helpful.
Maria123
hi i am rosie....and i am a writer by nature....and writing letters is a release for me too.......
when i got into recovery the first thing i did was grab onto a good sponser....
bought all the literature i could........90 meets in 90 days..........sharing on group.....i mean i give this progam hell and it is paying me back in spades now
my "A" and i separated 5yrs. ago a few months ago.......and it took me a while to get into recovery...i mean i would suffer 3 years after the split before i got into recovery....
with my horrible past, and he and i splitting up after 12 years together...it was like this split was the last straw.......
now i take care of me......i **married* the program for the first year and a half and i am glad i did.....i didn't want any relationships till my HP guides me into one........what i am trying to say , here, is he has his life journey.......i have mine....i don't even know where he is now...he is in the navy, and i am here.....but no matter....i can **only fix me* i cannot help anyone else......i can only work on me// clean up **my side of the street* thats the only thing i can do.......as i take care of me....i love me more.....i accept me more.....and being by myself beats the hell out of being around someone who is drunk.....even though he never abused me he was an "A" and his drinking and unwillingness to get into recovery was not acceptable to me...........please take what works, and leave the rest/ rosie
Hi (((((hadit))))) glad to see you here. Reading your post sure took me back to "the old days" and to my finding alanon. Much of what you said I could have written myself. Feeling that I was the one paying the price for his anger/issues, knowing I had my own things to work on, angry that he always pointed the finger at me for our problems, angry that he drank and didn't try to quit (he too had 7 years sobriety prior to our meeting), wanting him to listen to ME about my feelings. Lots and lots of anger, hurt, pain, despair (I could go on and on...)
Here are some of the things I have learned since starting Alanon. First and foremost, it is a disease. Love has nothing to do with ability to quit - unless it be love of self (that is needed). All his yelling at me about "divorce my ass then!" or "I want a divorce, you're a _________ (fill in the blank with the cruelest word you can think of)" - was self-sabotage on his part, was his fear of my actually NOT loving him and leaving him coming out, was his way of trying to make me end it (his greatest fear) so that the "blame" would be on me for ending it instead of on him. (UncleLou spoke of part of that in his reply, the doubts, the keeping a distance to avoid being hurt.) I too, began putting up a wall, keeping a distance, to try and avoid further hurt. So either I was maintaining that wall or I was venting out all my feelings and pain trying to make him hear me. Neither one of those things helped. They actually made it worse for both of us.
"He told me a week or so ago that I had to prove to him I was strong enough to make it on my own, ..." I understand this statement your husband made to you. Or, I should say, I believe I understand what he means by this (I could be wrong). When an alcoholic seeks recovery, it is just as important for the spouse to also seek recovery for themself. We too have been affected by this disease. We too are "sick", oftentimes "sicker" than the alcoholic. We may think we are thinking "clearly" because we are not the one who drinks, but our thinking has been affected by the disease, it has become distorted by our pain and hurt and anger. The resentments we hold fester away inside, poisoning us. Have you ever looked at yourself and said "wow, how did I become this person? I used to laugh and smile and enjoy life...now I am miserable, unhappy, yelling, crying..." That was me. I had changed. I needed recovery too. We have been weakened by this disease, we have been changed into people who are fearful of what the future may hold, fearful of being close to someone, fearful of being hurt. We need recovery. We need a changed attitude. An alcoholic seeking recovery, seeking a new way of life, cannot "come home" to the same old attitudes. I personally believe that is one of the biggest factors in alcoholic marriages falling apart. BOTH parties to the relationship need recovery.
Finding humility helped me to see a lot clearer. It also helped me find my compassion again. And funnily enough, it also helped me find my strength again. Strength to face my fears. Strength to love unconditionally. Strength to live through each day as I learned and learned in Alanon and began putting the Alanon tools to use in my life. Strength to pick myself back up after I slipped and to come into these rooms and say "I slipped - help" and begin again. Strength to not isolate, to call an alanon friend or to speak up in chat or to post so I could get feedback. Strength to know that my A does love me, to see past the alcoholic words to what lies beneath them inside the frightened man fighting a horrible, deadly, cunning disease.
It is a simple program, but it is not easy. It is a lot of hard work. It is working each and every day to apply the principles of the program to our life. The more we focus on what we can change - ourself - the better it gets. I can now stand up for myself, when my husband starts taking my inventory I can say to him (I call it "program talking") "you are taking my inventory, you wouldn't like me taking yours, would you?" and he knows exactly what I mean from his previous 7 years in AA. And he stops. I use program talking a lot in our conversations, I apply what I've learned from the steps and traditions in our discussions about life, family, work, decision making, etc. I take baby steps in discussing feelings, in working on getting that intimacy/closeness back with him that we used to have in the beginning of our relationship before this ugly disease reared its head and engulfed me. And so far, it sure is working for us. "Changed attitudes can aid recovery" - thats one of my favorite lines from Alanon.
I'm glad you shared with us. Please keep doing so. Please keep coming back. The more we share, the better it gets. It opens the door for discussion, to hear others share, to hear how others have worked the program. We take what we like (can use in our situation) and we leave the rest (what we can't use). No one way is the "right" way - but we get to hear so many different ways, ways we might never have thought of on our own. That is the beauty of this program. And it works if you work it!!!
((((((((((hugs)))))))))) to you!! Glad you're here!
Luv, Kis
-- Edited by sanddie at 19:37, 2005-10-01
Hi there.... as the author of about a dozen of those heartfelt letters to my (then active) wife at the time, I am hopeful that you wrote the letter for YOUR benefit.... If you wrote it to help them, you are likely tieing it in with an 'expectation' of a particular reaction or response from him, and you will most likely be disappointed....
Writing those letters, for our own benefit, for our own needs - can be cleansing. Writing those letters, with the hope that our A's will "finally get it", is typically fruitless and disappointing...
Take care
Tom
Hi,
I too have written many of those letters.
Sometimes my husband acknowledged them, often he didn't bother. I many times got so angry at him not anwering them, or even reading them at times. I felt, that if he could not take the time to read it, how much could he care. When he did comment on them, things where never in the context that they where written. He might have read what I wrote, but interpreted it his own way.
I have kept a copy of almost every letter I have ever written him. The part that amazes and saddens me when I reread them, is that letters that I wrote ten years ago, could have been written ten minutes ago. Time has passed, but in this horrible world of alcoholism, time has stood still for us.
Love Jeannie