Had an interesting session with my therapist last night, the guy my ex and I stopped going to a year ago. Talking to him about what happened between my wife and I these past couple of years, something became clear to me. We were talking about what I was or wasn’t doing to meet my wife’s expectations in my early sobriety to ‘save’ our marriage. Last night he said ’...well Lou, you had your chances and you ran out of time...’ Looking back I remember at that time telling my wife, in front of him, that I didn’t understand what she wanted from me and there are certain things I wasn’t capable of yet. I was being honest.
Looking back I realize I was in no shape to ‘give’ myself to the relationship to risk rejection. I was a hollow shell of a human being in early recovery. I felt I had nothing inside and needed to build myself up from that point. If I had risked putting faith in her to be there to support me and ‘she’ failed, I was afraid I would have ended up relapsed and dead. I put ‘she’ in quotes because it could have been nothing more than my perception of her failing me. I was scared to death of the disease and had nothing but AA to hang on to at that point. Her anger and rejection of me during my stay at the rehab influenced my perception of the relationship; I never trusted her to stick it out. Looking back, I think I realized on a subconscious level that I had to make a choice between saving myself or saving my marriage. If I saved myself first, maybe the marriage would survive. If I concentrated on the marriage and was let down, I don’t think I was strong enough to survive that at that point. Tough choice to make when you love someone and you are both hurt.
When I explained this to my therapist, he told me ‘You’re sober today and getting better, I guess you made the right decision.’
Don’t know if my reflections here are relevant to anyone else, but I just thought I’d share it incase someone might benefit from some perspective from the other side of this disease.
Lou
sg said
Sep 27, 2005
Thank you Lou, and yes, I appreciate your thoughts from 'the other side of the coin'. I can totally relate to what you are saying.
I have a choice...save myself OR the marriage right now. So does my A. For awhile now I have been trying to focus on both...working on ourselves AND our marriage at the same time. I get angry at him for not wanting to do the same sometimes. I realize though, that this runs so deep that all each of us two can do is focus on ourselves. We have to save ourselves. It hurts sometimes though, because reality may be that our relationship may never be saved. Then I remind myself that all is in our HP's hands...and even if we don't find our ways back to each other, we will be happier than when we were actively sick and together. Of course, there are always those stories of those that end up going thru recovery and their relationships are stronger than ever. So, w/any of us, it can go either way. My sponsor told me once that when two people focus on bettering themselves, keeping the focus on themselves and their own recovery...that things fall into place where they should be. My problem is that I tend to focus on the wished outcome instead of the process and I get lost, confused and frustrated along the way.
I appreciate your comments about how you weren't capable and in no shape to give yourself to your relationship back in the early days of recovery. That helps me put in perspective what my A is going thru right now w/out taking it personally. You can't give what you don't have.
Powerless said
Sep 27, 2005
Lou,
Your insight from the "other side" has helped so much. Not only can I work my own recovery, but I can see what my husband may possibly be going through. I love him so much and he is as open and honest as he can be about his disease, but can't always express himself.
Jeannie said
Sep 27, 2005
Lou,
I have been reading your posts, and I do find them very helpful and enlightening. When hurt I tend to see things in black and white, "I'm right and he is wrong". On a rational level I know that is never the way, but when emotionas take over, rational is just a word.
I know I have a temper, and I know it can get the best of me often. My husband who is my A, knows just how to goad me, (I do him as well). I love him, and hate the drinking. He has played with sobriety quite a few times. He has gone to inpatient rehab, IOP's, and AA. He does it when he either gets introuble with the law, or grows tired of living with his parents. In all those times he has never said he is an alcohalic, and when I have called him a drunk, he says it is a vile filthy word. He has said that I have a problem with his drinking, or his employer does, or the police do, or when the Dr told him he had liver disease, he asked what other things could cause it. The Dr told him, the things that could possibly casue it, but then said in his case, it was almost certainly the alcohal abuse. My husband says but there is a chance it was caused by something else, and hangs on to that.
I have told him that the kids and I will not tolerate his drinking, and have put him out on many occasions. This causes more problems for us, as he gets angry saying I am taking his kids away from him, that I have taken months from his life. I get angry that I believe he is walking out on us, that he chooses drinking over this family. My belief always being that he can come home any time, if he just puts the booze down, and chooses us over drinking.
I then get resentful because his parents enable him, condone and contribute to his drinking and wait on him hand and foot. All the while this family has to struggle. His parents play the bad me game, that horrible woman threw you out, let us make you happy and care for you. Then they and him use the fact that he was thrown out as an excuse for him being drunk. The poor guy drinks to escape that his wife put him out. Never mind I put him out becasue of his drinking.
Two sides of the same coin. I don't trust him because he drinks, and lies to me and whenever I have depended on him, he has let me down. It never occured to me that he might feel that I abandoned him, that because I threw him out, he might feel that I walked out on this marriage.
I am trying to work my program, to stick to my boundaries. I cannot have him drunk here, trying to put the kids in the car with him, and making a mess, not working, or doing anything else. He is currently not in any program, that being the case, maybe he really does believe that he is the victim. In some way he is, we all are.
Thanks for making me look at the "gray" of things.
Love Jeannie
UncleLou said
Sep 27, 2005
Jeannie wrote:
My belief always being that he can come home any time, if he just puts the booze down, and chooses us over drinking.
Jeannie,
If it were only that simple there would be no such thing as alcoholism.
Lou
Jeannie said
Sep 27, 2005
Lou,
I do realize that it is not that simple. Like I said the rational side of me knows th efacts, the emotional side, only knows the hurt.
Me protecting myself, and him protecting himself. Big walls put up, and two people with opposing views feeling hurt and betrayal over the same but very different thing.
The point I was trying to make before AI began rambling was that I appreciate seeing the other point, it makes me think, and since it is not my husband telling me it. (Not that he would). It is "safe" for me to actually think about it.
sg said
Sep 27, 2005
Jeannie wrote:Lou,
It I appreciate seeing the other point, it makes me think, and since it is not my husband telling me it. (Not that he would). It is "safe" for me to actually think about it.
You couldn't have said it better! That's exactly how I feel when I read Lou's posts. I realize that not A's are alike, but hearing it from someone that I am not emotionally attached to, does create a "safer" environment to learn what I can. Thank you, Lou!
-- Edited by sg at 14:25, 2005-09-27
Karilynn said
Sep 27, 2005
Lou,
Well that was an enlightening session for you.
One of the reasons my A is at the halfway house is because he couldn't concentrate on his recovery while worrying about me. Vice versa for me. I'd always be afraid that I might "trigger" him. He was uptight about the finances, and the burden it was placing on me, etc, etc. I was so afraid to come home, not knowing what I would be walking into.
How can we concentrate on recovery for ourselves, when we are both worrying about each other's recovery? The focus was out of focus.
I've heard it time and again, councelors telling people in early recovery cautionary tales about relationships.
It's a good reminder that as much as we want to go back to what we had before they were drinking. Maybe what we have to do is to "reinvent" the relationship while they are recovering and we are recovering.
Having your perspective in incredibly valuable. After reading some of your posts, it's like: "Yureka!
Now I see it.
Allow me to offer one suggestion for all people to read: The First Year Sobriety (forgot the author). Essentially it's alcoholics telling their stories to us. Their all different. It was the first book that I picked up last year when my husband went into rehab. I had to try and get a handle on what it was going to be like for him. I showed it to the councelor who handles the families when we are there for visiting hours. We did 1 1/2 session first, before we could go upstairs and visit. He went out and bought a copy for himself. I know it's available at Barnes & Noble. It's worth a look.
Thanks again for the "other side". Glad you're here with us.
Live strong,
Karilynn
Had an interesting session with my therapist last night, the guy my ex and I stopped going to a year ago. Talking to him about what happened between my wife and I these past couple of years, something became clear to me. We were talking about what I was or wasn’t doing to meet my wife’s expectations in my early sobriety to ‘save’ our marriage. Last night he said ’...well Lou, you had your chances and you ran out of time...’ Looking back I remember at that time telling my wife, in front of him, that I didn’t understand what she wanted from me and there are certain things I wasn’t capable of yet. I was being honest.
Looking back I realize I was in no shape to ‘give’ myself to the relationship to risk rejection. I was a hollow shell of a human being in early recovery. I felt I had nothing inside and needed to build myself up from that point. If I had risked putting faith in her to be there to support me and ‘she’ failed, I was afraid I would have ended up relapsed and dead. I put ‘she’ in quotes because it could have been nothing more than my perception of her failing me. I was scared to death of the disease and had nothing but AA to hang on to at that point. Her anger and rejection of me during my stay at the rehab influenced my perception of the relationship; I never trusted her to stick it out. Looking back, I think I realized on a subconscious level that I had to make a choice between saving myself or saving my marriage. If I saved myself first, maybe the marriage would survive. If I concentrated on the marriage and was let down, I don’t think I was strong enough to survive that at that point. Tough choice to make when you love someone and you are both hurt.
When I explained this to my therapist, he told me ‘You’re sober today and getting better, I guess you made the right decision.’
Don’t know if my reflections here are relevant to anyone else, but I just thought I’d share it incase someone might benefit from some perspective from the other side of this disease.
Lou
Lou,
Your insight from the "other side" has helped so much. Not only can I work my own recovery, but I can see what my husband may possibly be going through. I love him so much and he is as open and honest as he can be about his disease, but can't always express himself.
Lou,
I have been reading your posts, and I do find them very helpful and enlightening. When hurt I tend to see things in black and white, "I'm right and he is wrong". On a rational level I know that is never the way, but when emotionas take over, rational is just a word.
I know I have a temper, and I know it can get the best of me often. My husband who is my A, knows just how to goad me, (I do him as well). I love him, and hate the drinking. He has played with sobriety quite a few times. He has gone to inpatient rehab, IOP's, and AA. He does it when he either gets introuble with the law, or grows tired of living with his parents. In all those times he has never said he is an alcohalic, and when I have called him a drunk, he says it is a vile filthy word. He has said that I have a problem with his drinking, or his employer does, or the police do, or when the Dr told him he had liver disease, he asked what other things could cause it. The Dr told him, the things that could possibly casue it, but then said in his case, it was almost certainly the alcohal abuse. My husband says but there is a chance it was caused by something else, and hangs on to that.
I have told him that the kids and I will not tolerate his drinking, and have put him out on many occasions. This causes more problems for us, as he gets angry saying I am taking his kids away from him, that I have taken months from his life. I get angry that I believe he is walking out on us, that he chooses drinking over this family. My belief always being that he can come home any time, if he just puts the booze down, and chooses us over drinking.
I then get resentful because his parents enable him, condone and contribute to his drinking and wait on him hand and foot. All the while this family has to struggle. His parents play the bad me game, that horrible woman threw you out, let us make you happy and care for you. Then they and him use the fact that he was thrown out as an excuse for him being drunk. The poor guy drinks to escape that his wife put him out. Never mind I put him out becasue of his drinking.
Two sides of the same coin. I don't trust him because he drinks, and lies to me and whenever I have depended on him, he has let me down. It never occured to me that he might feel that I abandoned him, that because I threw him out, he might feel that I walked out on this marriage.
I am trying to work my program, to stick to my boundaries. I cannot have him drunk here, trying to put the kids in the car with him, and making a mess, not working, or doing anything else. He is currently not in any program, that being the case, maybe he really does believe that he is the victim. In some way he is, we all are.
Thanks for making me look at the "gray" of things.
Love Jeannie
Lou,
I do realize that it is not that simple. Like I said the rational side of me knows th efacts, the emotional side, only knows the hurt.
Me protecting myself, and him protecting himself. Big walls put up, and two people with opposing views feeling hurt and betrayal over the same but very different thing.
The point I was trying to make before AI began rambling was that I appreciate seeing the other point, it makes me think, and since it is not my husband telling me it. (Not that he would). It is "safe" for me to actually think about it.
-- Edited by sg at 14:25, 2005-09-27